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analysis How can we research domains without losing them to our registrar and their employees!

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oldtimer

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I have been hand registering domains for a long time now and over the years I have lost many domains that were available at the time that I was doing my research and shortly afterwards were taken by someone who put their info under whois privacy. This subject has come up before on the forum, but there are those members here that always rush to tell us that we are imagining this and it's just coincidence that someone else must have also thought of the same domain as we have, which in some cases they might be right, but when we are talking about very specific and niche domains that are kind of obscure then it makes one wonder about the coincidence factor. After hearing so many stories on the forum about people losing domains that they have researched for I am beginning to wonder what could be done about this problem. I myself have had domains taken right out of my cart which I was planning to register in the following days. Now I understand that just by checking a domain and or even by putting it in in your cart you are not granted any rights to that domain until you actually register it, but even though you have no legal right to the domains that you have researched for, but shouldn’t the registrars respect the fact that it probably has taken you a lot of time and effort to find a domain that was available and as a long term customer shouldn't they give you ample time before they allow their employees to take advantage of their insider knowledge and take the domains for themselves, some people might want to research domains all through the month and wait till a later date to register them I don't think that it's fair for all their efforts to go to waste. I have heard that some of the registrars (or their employees) sell the list of the valuable domains that have been checked for availability through their home page search box or through the whois inquires.
I hope that the registrars can come up with some kind of a solution for this problem soon but meanwhile if you want to know whether a domain is available or not don't check it at your registrar specially when you are logged in, because if you happen to be good at hand registering new domains there is a good chance that someone is monitoring your searches and will snatch away any good domains that you have thought of although they usually only take one domain at a time as to not raise any suspicions, because if they took all the good domains that you have searched for then they cannot claim that it was a coincidence, they usually take the best domain on your list that you have done research on and wait for the next batch that you are going to do research on later, the better you are at hand registering domain names the more domains they will snatch away from you and over time a pattern will become noticeable that no matter how hard their paid operatives on this forum try to convince you that this is just a coincidence the big picture that will emerge after we hear other people's complains about this problem can no longer be ignored by the registrars. I estimate that over 5 million domains might have been taken this way over the last 10 years from people who have looked up available domain names and wanted to wait until a later date to register them.

If you have had similar experiences with domains that you have researched on please sound off so that it can be shown that this is not an isolated situation.

Keep all comments constructive, professional and on topic. This is an Industry wide problem so don't single out any one registrar, we need the registrars help to come up with a solution for this problem.
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
I think you should first check your systems for viruses. Some can't even be detected even with mbam... I have a personal tablet that got infected that way lol.

So before anything, i would expierment with using a fresh, bootable Ubuntu usb for your domaining acquisitions. Do that for a month and see if your stuff is still getting "stolen


Secondly, I never search for domains while logged in...! Try not doing this too... and definitely definitely don't add domains to a cart... wtf. I always just keep good domains I've researched on a file...

Thirdly, shame on every1 saying "why did you not buy it." If we all bought every domain on our lists without doing some fine-choosing, Then we'd all be broke. It's not $8... and you all know t at. It's all a numbers game, and you can't just buy everything.

Lastly, even if registrars are getting searched names... It's not illegal unless it goes against their own terms and conditions?????? Google literally uses OUR SEARCHES to fine tune their services. It's a whole SEO industry lol. If registrars analyze customer searches, it's called analytics...

I don't like ppl comparing that to insider trading. Insider trading is when you buy stocks based off of info not available to the public. Ok that's the loose definition.
 
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I think you should first check your systems for viruses. Some can't even be detected even with mbam...

So before anything, i would expierment with using a fresh, bootable Ubuntu usb for your domaining acquisitions.

Those are actually pretty good suggestions, in my opinion.
 
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I think you should first check your systems for viruses. Some can't even be detected even with mbam... I have a personal tablet that got infected that way lol.

So before anything, i would expierment with using a fresh, bootable Ubuntu usb for your domaining acquisitions. Do that for a month and see if your stuff is still getting "stolen


Secondly, I never search for domains while logged in...! Try not doing this too... and definitely definitely don't add domains to a cart... wtf. I always just keep good domains I've researched on a file...

Thirdly, shame on every1 saying "why did you not buy it." If we all bought every domain on our lists without doing some fine-choosing, Then we'd all be broke. It's not $8... and you all know t at. It's all a numbers game, and you can't just buy everything.

Lastly, even if registrars are getting searched names... It's not illegal unless it goes against their own terms and conditions?????? Google literally uses OUR SEARCHES to fine tune their services. It's a whole SEO industry lol. If registrars analyze customer searches, it's called analytics...

I don't like ppl comparing that to insider trading. Insider trading is when you buy stocks based off of info not available to the public. Ok that's the loose definition.

I wasn't comparing stealing somebody's domain searches to insider trading. I was contrasting that insider trading has been illegal for years, but it still happens. Whereas @oldtimer was hoping to resolve the issues related to stealing somebody's domain searches by getting registrars united behind a voluntary common solution to the problem, when most of the problem, isn't stealing somebody's domain searches at all, most of the time, like @Kate points out. It's unrealistic. Just like the legislation isn't realist to totally prevent insider trading. I hope that clears up any misunderstanding.
 
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Instructions on how to do whois search without registrar or website have been posted on the forum many times: https://www.namepros.com/blog/checking-domain-name-availability-without-using-a-website.862678/

I have not used a registrar or website for whois search for over 10 years now.

Does anyone remember when any domain you searched on Netsol got immediately registered and offered to you for $39? Then they would dump it after 5 days and you could register it somewhere else. You could put in a random string of characters and they would register that.
 
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So before anything, i would expierment with using a fresh, bootable Ubuntu usb for your domaining acquisitions.

The Network tool in there contains a utility that does WHOIS searches direct. No captchas, registrars, websites or other BS.
 
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Instructions on how to do whois search without registrar or website have been posted on the forum many times: https://www.namepros.com/blog/checking-domain-name-availability-without-using-a-website.862678/

I have not used a registrar or website for whois search for over 10 years now.

Does anyone remember when any domain you searched on Netsol got immediately registered and offered to you for $39? Then they would dump it after 5 days and you could register it somewhere else. You could put in a random string of characters and they would register that.

Yep, massive abuse of power there.
 
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http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/bionic/man1/whois.1.html

This version of the whois client tries to guess the right server to ask for the specified
object. If no guess can be made it will connect to whois.networksolutions.com for NIC
handles or whois.arin.net for IPv4 addresses and network names.
 
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I wasn't comparing stealing somebody's domain searches to insider trading.


I wouldn’t go that far to call it stealing, after all the Registrars own the data related to domain searches and whois searches, and I am not asking for searched domains to be locked for 30 days as someone might think of an already searched domain on their own without having access to insider information, All I am asking is for Registrars to make an official declaration that they (or anyone associated or affiliated with them) will not use or sell the domain search and whois search data for at least 30 days (60 or 90 days is even better).
 
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Some new TLDs it cannot find and it can't do .es.
you can do this in the terminal:
telnet com.whois-servers.net 43

(enter, wait, type a domain)

Trying 2620:74:21::30...
Connected to whois.verisign-grs.com.

I think it works for other TLDs.
telnet es.whois-servers.net 43
Trying 54.72.161.36...
Connected to whois.nic.es.

oh
Conditions of use for the whois service via port 43 for .es domains

Access will only be enabled for IP addresses authorised by Red.es. A maximum of one IP address per
user/organisation is permitted.

In particular, the user undertakes not to use the service to carry out abusive or speculative domain
name registrations,
 
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I wouldn’t go that far to call it stealing, after all the Registrars own the data related to domain searches and whois searches, and I am not asking for searched domains to be locked for 30 days as someone might think of an already searched domain on their own without having access to insider information, All I am asking is for Registrars to make an official declaration that they (or anyone associated or affiliated with them) will not use or sell the domain search and whois search data for at least 30 days (60 or 90 days is even better).

I think a quite lot of registrars will have quite a lot of objections to that. They all use this collected data, which may be passed around to affiliates. Some even may actively sell this data. If it's not current, it probably has no value. After all. It's their data. They have collected it. Why are you putting restrictions on what they do with it? If you don't like it. Go somewhere else, kind of attitude. Similar to all these privacy pop-ups which are currently in vogue.
 
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@oldtimer - I really do think you are expecting to much from the registrars to provide such a statement, when we cannot actually provide any evidence that this is a real problem, and not 99% caused by other circumstances, unrelated to the problem in hand. I'm ok if you continue doing searches at your registrar, but I stopped doing this years ago. I altered my modus operandum, so I don't give them even the possibility to gather this information. If this is a real concern for you. You should do the same.
 
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Some people have mentioned Verisign. OK that might take care of .com, .net, .cc, .tv. What happens to the many thousands of other registries? .org, cctlds, ngtlds, or even the other gtlds? Do these get left behind? I don't think so :(

Where? I just re-read through all the comments up to here and didn’t see a single one mentioning Verisign.
Anyhow, my theory still applies, where I mention “Verisign” I might better have said “the registry” to distinguish it from the registrars.

So if you search for say a .org domain at a registrar like Godaddy, in that case Public Interest Registry who runs the string would probably also know about your search.

I think the backend of .org is operated by Afilias, so they might see your search too! The more the merrier!
 
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I don't even need a shopping cart anymore I pay one domain per transaction so I can get them I don't research until i own it. I wouldn't recommend this but it is how i roll.
 
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I found some expired lll.ios and added them to cart in namesilo but got distracted for a while, when I cameback I had to sign in again, my items were still in cart but as I checkout I found one of them was already registered, whois shows in dynadot, where I guess I checked their availability...
 
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WHAT???? putting them on your cart? LOL
Sometimes even you paid of it for thousands of dollars, it might get cancelled just like previously happen on some premium .co domains

Do the research with one thing in your mind : purchase and paid for it at once... Waiting for even a minutes would risk you loosing it...
 
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This is what I am demanding to happen:

The Registrars, Registries, ISPs, or any other entity or person who has access to domain search and whois search data ( including patterns of activities) should be required to give 60 days to potential registrants to get the domains that they have researched on and are considering to register before they allow that data to be used or sold for their own or anyone else’s benefit.
 
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Happened to me recently at Godaddy.com.....
 
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Screw it, I'm going to go do it. Plus post the full dataset with the Names, and the registrars + domain tools used here. I'm kinda curious.

Honestly, this should be done on a regular schedule. Surprised nobodies thought of it before.
It would be great for industry accountability.

Make sure to spoof the ip(s) you make the request from or use a large subnet with different ips. I'm sure the bigger registrars would spot a pattern if you don't. It would also help with the rate limit some have in place.

If you decide to go through with it, please keep us updated as it would generate some interesting data.
 
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So before anything, i would expierment with using a fresh, bootable Ubuntu usb for your domaining acquisitions. Do that for a month and see if your stuff is still getting "stolen

Good advice. Better yet, get rid of windows altogether :)

Lastly, even if registrars are getting searched names... It's not illegal unless it goes against their own terms and conditions?????? Google literally uses OUR SEARCHES to fine tune their services. It's a whole SEO industry lol. If registrars analyze customer searches, it's called analytics...

You're right but it would be a d*ck move if they did. Think of it this way, what if you asked your real estate broker to search for your ideal house, give him the specs and so on. Then he finds it for a bargain, buys it and tries to pass it on to you with a huge markup. Would you still be using that broker?


I don't like ppl comparing that to insider trading. Insider trading is when you buy stocks based off of info not available to the public. Ok that's the loose definition.

I don't see the difference... if they do collect these searches and use that (inside) info to buy domains that are available to the general public that would be the same thing. Better yet, they would know a cetrain name is in demand as they actually know how many potential buyers there are.

Like I said, this kind of info would be valuable to any domainer, especially if you play the number game and reg thousands and thousands of domains.
 
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Where? I just re-read through all the comments up to here and didn’t see a single one mentioning Verisign.
Anyhow, my theory still applies, where I mention “Verisign” I might better have said “the registry” to distinguish it from the registrars.

So if you search for say a .org domain at a registrar like Godaddy, in that case Public Interest Registry who runs the string would probably also know about your search.

I think the backend of .org is operated by Afilias, so they might see your search too! The more the merrier!

I think it's actually very likely that registries use data gathered from global whois searches accross all registrars. The .co registry started 'upgrading' a lot of dropped names to premium lately. If I had decided to take that path I would work whois searches into my algorithm to decide what names to pick.

The same goes for ngTLDs. It's basically the wildwest when it comes to new extentions.

EDIT:
I wouldn't even blame them as long as they make it public that they do. They are a business after all.
 
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How can we research domains without losing them to our registrar and their employees?

Very simple. Make a list with your wanted (available names). Download FoxWhois, and paste the name there. You'll get all the info you need. Free version supports only .com, paid version most extensions.
 
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I don't like ppl comparing that to insider trading. Insider trading is when you buy stocks based off of info not available to the public. Ok that's the loose definition.

"SAC 022
SSAC Advisory on Domain Name Front Running
An Advisory from the ICANN
Security and Stability
Advisory Committee
(SSAC)
October 20 2007

This Advisory considers the opportunity for a party with some form of insider information to track an Internet user’s preference for registering a domain name and preemptively register that name. This type of activity has been called domain name grabbing and preemptive registration in other contexts. SSAC compares this activity to front running in stock and commodities markets and thus calls this similar behavior domain name front running. In the domain name industry, insider information would be information gathered from the monitoring of one or more attempts by an Internet user to check the availability of a domain name"

- - - - -

In stock market they delay the live feed ticker by a certain time to prevent front running, we should demand the same thing for domain search and whois search data (or any patterns of activities thereof) to not be used or sold for 60 days.

You like many others here have some good advice for getting around this problem, but I like to solve this problem for once and for all as it has been going on for a long time and even though it can not be proven easily, but a simple rule of the 60 day wait time before the insider data could be used or sold will take care of this problem regardless of whether it is real or whether it's a perception that has developed over time amongst people.
 
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