.ca Dot CA Discussion, Sales, and Showcase

cabotower said:

why in the world would CIRA restrict a name like "ripon",how could they justify it?

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https://ville.ripon.qc.ca/

i looked for that earlier and couldn't find it.strange why some are blocked while crediton.ca slips through.crediton,ontario.

cabotower said:

i looked for that earlier and couldn't find it.strange why some are blocked while crediton.ca slips through.crediton,ontario.

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It all comes down to which towns, cities or companies that have already registered under a XYZ.PROV.CA domain. Crediton didn't and Ripon did.

DomainRecap said:

I read every single one of them religiously, and there are new precedents and decisions that would make your hair fall out - and company lawyers then use these zany decisions to create more precedents.

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Thus adding to your paranoia. And yes, I agreed that this does rarely happen.

DomainRecap said:

P.S. Your "distinctive TM' argument is way off, as companies I've never heard of (that exist only in Zaire or Peru) have won UDRPs strictly based on TM and that TM is used all over the place, like an LLL or single-word.

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My point wasn't about being distinctive, my point was about the various levels of strength that trademarks have, and that really only the ones that are fanciful and famous are untouchable. They are the ones that have no legitimate other fair use for it (i.e. kleenex.whatever). Domains that have a legitimate fair use are always going to be fair game, especially dictionary words.

And yes, in the .com world, you really have to be concerned about worldwide trademarks. Ad optimization shows ads that you'll never see or know about. That can open you up to losing a domain. This is why parking is bad. I was pretty clear about that.

DomainRecap said:

This exact case happened with a 3-letter .COM whereby a Mexican bus company (that I had never heard of and doesn't exist outside of Mexico) won their UDRP against a seemingly-unwinnable aged LLL acronym. And there are 100+ companies that share that same acronym, many of them large US firms and multinationals.

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Their were legitimate factors - this owner had parked the domain with infringing ads, created logos to look similar to the complainants, etc.. Do stupid things... get bad results.

And yes, of course it only takes one of may TM holders to complain. That doesn't reduce the strength of the TM. I am not saying that. I'm saying if you have a dictionary word and there are many trademarks on it, that's evidence that there are many potential uses for the domain and thus there is a legitimate expectation that others will also find this word useful for their new business. Certain words are popular in business for a reason. You can choose to invest in the swamp land that no one wants, or you can choose to invest in the popular beach location that everyone wants. Your choice.

BTW - this is a .CA discussion and you know we deal with CDRP not UDRP. There are significant differences. A complainant must show bad faith from a specific set of circumstances. A legitimate .ca domain investor does not run afoul of them.

DomainRecap said:

Just an FYI that you really shouldn't do that, as then they have your personal information, and the proper way (as advocated by the CIRA) to respond to legal harassment is to request your registrar immediately drop the offending domain, whereby it gets added to the TBR. Then they need a court order to get your data and potentially harass you in other ways.

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Dropping a domain is indeed an option. But if you run and hide when the lights flicker on, they assume they just saw a cockroach. So I see dropping a domain as a strategy of a cockroach to stay hidden. I would assume that strategy certainly works for some. I really don't advise it - unless you really have something to hide.

I highly suggest legitimate domain investors make their whois public or at least have a landing page that makes it obvious who you are and a simple way for them to contact you. Communication is always the key to resolving any problem in life - not just domaining problems. If you're a legitimate domain investor, the first thing you should want to do is establish trust, let them know you're a real human and open lines of communication long before you force them to get to the CDRP stage.

And if you make a mistake, inadvertently or misguidedly registered a domain, bought a portfolio with a bad name, parked a domain and showed offending ads, etc..., then simply admit the mistake and send the auth code. Simple as that. When you hide, make it hard for them to find you, don't respond to attempts to communicate, then of course, yes, you will find yourself in a CDRP and they'll be pissed off.

DomainRecap said:

Again, that is not because we're nicer up here or something, but that the .CA market prices are lower than they used to be, and there is no ROI in chasing around domains in the low 4-figures, especially in this economy.

As my IP lawyer contact once told me, "We're really only after the high-dollar domains."

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Yes, clearly the higher the price, the more effective legal bullying becomes. That doesn't mean its right, or that they'll win, it just means they may try. Again, the CDRP is better written and you simply can't make bad faith mistakes.

As a final thought, I'm not sure why you are even in this business. If it was as bad as you think, the entire domain resale industry would be dead.

rlm said:

Dropping a domain is indeed an option. But if you run and hide when the lights flicker on, they assume they just saw a cockroach. So I see dropping a domain as a strategy of a cockroach to stay hidden. I would assume that strategy certainly works for some. I really don't advise it - unless you really have something to hide.

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LOL, you know the airplane that flew over your head? That was the point I was trying to make.

I did that so the harassing SOB IP firm didn't get its grubby little hands on the domain (probably getting a bonus for the drone), or at least would have a much harder time doing so - and did you read that part about me being pleased about the company buying it and developing it? Well, I kinda helped that out by letting some of them know it would drop. Hehe.

The privacy part was just an added bonus, as there is no guarantee that after the lawyers get the domain, these little nitwits won't use that freely-provided WHOIS data to look you up, discover you have some money, and then launch some frivolous lawsuit based on "misuse of IP" and try to squeeze you. If you think that scenario is impossible, then you don't know any lawyers.

And I was galaxies away from "infringing" on their TM, it was just pure lawyer harassment at its best - they had no case, but that didn't stop them from sending threat-filled emails every few days or so. When I weighed my options, (the single-word wasn't a great one and it cost me $1 post-TBR run), I just wanted out, but without kissing their IP asses by delivering a gift-wrapped free domain.

My solution was absolutely perfect. Another company got the domain, the IP drone hopefully got a cuff in the head for losing it, and the IP nerds would need a court order to find out who I am. In your situation, you just bent over and gave it to to them freely, delivering your personal data via domain transfer, free of charge.

Not my style at all, and if you want a free domain from me, you gotta work it baby!

And as for the UDRPs, I really dislike debating them, as I agree that I'm a bit too pessimistic about them given the limited number of "rogue panelists", just as you'd probably agree you're a little too optimistic about the process, given some recent decisions and increased propensity of companies to try a UDRP and "see what happens".

It is what it is, and one thing we can agree on that the Canadian version of the UDRP is functionally more sound and consistent than the standard.COM UDRP, which can be all over the map, depending on the panelist.

DomainRecap said:

And I was galaxies away from "infringing" on their TM, it was just pure lawyer harassment at its best - they had no case, but that didn't stop them from sending threat-filled emails every few days or so. When I weighed my options, (the single-word wasn't a great one and it cost me $1 post-TBR run), I just wanted out, but without kissing their IP asses by delivering a gift-wrapped free domain.

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Well if you didn't really think the domain was valuable, then I get it, everyone has to pick their battles. I also 100% get the point that it was awesome to screw them by ensuring the domain went to someone/anyone who could make immediate and defensible use of it. Of course that was satisfying. But that shouldn't stop you from investing, and it shouldn't prevent you from defending a good domain.

DomainRecap said:

In your situation, you just bent over and gave it to to them freely, delivering your personal data via domain transfer, free of charge.

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As stated, I prefer my info is right in whois - they didn't get it by the domain transfer. I'm obviously missing your point there. I strongly believe that if you look like you're hiding, they'll believe you have something to hide and in their mind you're guilty before the conversation even starts. So of course they won't knock on your door with flowers in hand, they'd come barreling through the door with a warrant and a swat team if they could!

I believe in IP and that it's mostly good. I just think it rightfully has boundaries and limitations, and of course lawyers try their best to push them. But they had a legit complaint. There were infringing ads. It was my mistake. Personally I feel the whole process should have some leeway for ignorance with regards to obscure foreign trademarks - but the reality is, I know the rules, I know the consequences for breaking them, I didn't feel like they were screwing me at all. If I want to be treated fairly, I also have to treat others fairly. And yes, I do realize that effing lawyers are quite often the biggest dirtbags out there and that some will lie, cheat, steal, bully, manufacture evidence, etc..., do anything to win. But that doesn't mean I should do the same.

DomainRecap said:

And as for the UDRPs, I really dislike debating them, as I agree that I'm a bit too pessimistic about them given the limited number of "rogue panelists", just as you'd probably agree you're a little too optimistic about the process, given some recent decisions and increased propensity of companies to try a UDRP and "see what happens".

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Its great to read them, understand them, learn from them. But until they come out and say its outright illegal to invest in domain names, its still a good business. But you gotta be careful, not make mistakes and be willing to defend when necessary.

DomainRecap said:

It is what it is, and one thing we can agree on that the Canadian version of the UDRP is functionally more sound and consistent than the standard.COM UDRP, which can be all over the map, depending on the panelist.

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Exactly. And this was after all, about .ca domains. I'd have liked to have picked this particular one up cheaper of course, so that may mean the upside is a bit less, but I feel like the downside is zero (other than the time value of the money spent.). But I'm also in the situation where I've already made too much money this year so re-investing isn't a bad option compared to paying more taxes.

rlm said:

And yes, I do realize that effing lawyers are quite often the biggest dirtbags out there and that some will lie, cheat, steal, bully, manufacture evidence, etc..., do anything to win. But that doesn't mean I should do the same.

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I might understand this comment, but dropping the domain in response to legal harassment is what the CIRA advised me to do. It's their recommended course of action, not some trick.

Redline is a great name and it should be a guaranteed sale within a set period of time, I'm just a little leery of spending too much on non-single words / non-LLLs, which are much easier to defend.

DomainRecap said:

I might understand this comment, but dropping the domain in response to legal harassment is what the CIRA advised me to do. It's the recommended course of action.

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I suppose depending on the domain, that may have been the best course of action... Or not.

rlm said:

I suppose depending on the domain, that may have been the best course of action... Or not.

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I'll pick that solution all day and all night, as compared to just tossing them an auth code for free.

DomainRecap said:

I'll pick that solution all day and all night, as compared to just tossing them an auth code for free.

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If I felt they didn't have a legitimate complaint but that it also wasn't worth defending against, then I absolutely get it, you don't want to let them win, dropping it and tipping someone else off is a satisfying way to go. However, if I was clearly in the wrong, I can admit defeat graciously.

Hey, anyone else notice what's coming up this week?

NCIX.CA

Now this was just a forwarder to NCIX.COM, but I wonder what kind of crazy emails you'd get with this domain.

DomainRecap said:

Hey, anyone else notice what's coming up this week?

NCIX.CA

Now this was just a forwarder to NCIX.COM, but I wonder what kind of crazy emails you'd get with this domain.

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Didn't even realize they were out of business. I had purchased from them a decade or more ago. looks like they leaked my customer information... ugh.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCIX

cabotower said:

crediton.ca
oncredit.ca

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Hmmm how would you use them in commerce?

crediton is an ontario place name i regd with a few others not really expecting cira to approve it and getting surprised when it did.that one will be going back during the grace period.with almost 5 billion results on a google search on credit speaks for itself.with options like ontario and online,i'm sure there's a place for it.

for some of the place names i regd i could find no online presence of any kind.for others i did eventually find xxxxx.mb.ca and the like.and for others they are using townofxxxxx.com.if they are not using an obviously available .ca it should be allowed to be regd by anyone.

cabotower said:

for some of the place names i regd i could find no online presence of any kind.for others i did eventually find xxxxx.mb.ca and the like.and for others they are using townofxxxxx.com.if they are not using an obviously available .ca it should be allowed to be regd by anyone.

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I agree, but my theory is that it was registered old school "xxxxx.mb.ca" back in the day, then later dropped, but the CIRA still retains an image of the old domain registration.

so what is the next step,do i wait for the registrar or cira to contact me or should i contact them?i started getting into this mess on feb 13.

just finished talking with gd.rep was a great guy.got a refund for crediton.ca,no problem.anything else we can help you with today?well yes,i do have 10 domains that i don't have dns access to.after a short hold-yes sir we'll push these domains into your account,they should be there in 6-8 hours,some of them are partially pushed already.btw sir,these are great names.thank you rep,i think so.that all sounds great but does anybody think CIRA will allow any of this to happen?even if it does i think CIRA will just yank them back.i'll believe it when it happens.

24 hrs later,nothing.call no2.hello,godaddy,how are you today?frustrated.oh that's too bad....45 minutes later,we don't have an answer for you today,maybe by friday,bye and please fill out the survey regarding my performance.

Does anyone have a contact at CIRA or a Registrar with a inside man that can ask about the future of the TBR Results?

I have asked a few people, and as of right now, this may have gone the way of the Dodo and they have no idea if it will ever be reinstituted. I thought I had an answer from the CIRA, but they naturally misunderstood and when I specifically asked about the "TBR Results" that the Registars download and then post, the guy went totally silent.

If the TBR Results are no longer going to be part of the weekly run, then that sucks hard, as I have been following the results for-freaking-ever. I think I have them downloaded and saved for like 8 years or so.

isn't that the new list on the site,for feb 20,27. including aba.ca and ban.ca

cabotower said:

isn't that the new list on the site,for feb 20,27. including aba.ca and ban.ca

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Nope, the run doesn't take place until Feb 20.

And in case you're confused, I am referring to the TBR RESULTS (what was selected each week) and not the Expired List.

Everyone either has nothing or just their own selections, and the CIRA has been silent on the subject, with some registrars stating the the CIRA has no plans to provide one:

https://www.sibername.com/tbr/results.php

https://www.myid.ca/tbr/bidding.php?act=tbr_result_time

Who knows, maybe they're trying to hide the fact that MyID owns the TBR.

DomainRecap said:

Nope, the run doesn't take place until Feb 20.

And in case you're confused, I am referring to the TBR RESULTS (what was selected each week) and not the Expired List.

Everyone either has nothing or just their own selections, and the CIRA has been silent on the subject, with some registrars stating the the CIRA has no plans to provide one:

https://www.sibername.com/tbr/results.php

https://www.myid.ca/tbr/bidding.php?act=tbr_result_time

Who knows, maybe they're trying to hide the fact that MyID owns the TBR.

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I got a fairly unintelligible response to my own questions. I'll share it tomorrow.