discuss [Resolved] Domainer Loses $26k On A Stolen Domain!

Silentptnr · Mar 5, 2018

Darn! Another scam and this time it is an experienced domainer James Booth.

James must have thought he was making a sound acquisition as he transferred approximately 26k to escrow for CQD.com. Instead, after completing the escrow, the domain was taken from his account by the registrar without notification and returned to the "true" owner.

Turns out the person that sold him the domain CQD.com, may not have been the true owner.

Apparently this incident involves several parties including the registrar and the escrow.

Thanks to Theo over at DomainGang for the tip on this.

Jackson Elsegood · Jul 26, 2018

MasterOfMyDomains said:
@Jackson Elsegood can you post here what happened at your end so we can all learn from this and prevent it from happening again?

@MasterOfMyDomains thanks for the tag. We coordinate and provide info directly to law enforcement for a dispute like this rather than posting transaction info on forums. Our customers' transaction details are never released publicly without all parties' consent.

Escrow.com makes sure that you receive the domain that you paid for, but we do not perform all due diligence over domain ownership and history. Performing due diligence is a personal and potentially lengthy process which we simply could not do with the time available for a typical transaction. Andrew Allemann over at DNW wrote a good short guide to performing DD here: https://domainnamewire.com/2014/10/07/due-diligence-buying-domain-names/

In addition to his comments, I would also add if you are unsure about a domain's ownership after completing your own DD, consider negotiating with the seller to extend the inspection period to give yourself more comfort.

Jackson Elsegood

richtrading · Sep 30, 2018

tonecas said:
"Jake" from "odapo.com" reached Rebecca's email between June and November 2017, the month where her account was hacked.

odapo.com shows:

Show attachment 84637

So we have "Jake" and "Jack". Same person? Brothers? Friends?

"Jack" reached Rebbeca's email on November 8, 2017, and signed "Jake" but used an email "Jack K <[email protected]>":
https://www.namepros.com/a/2018/03/100736_b36abef4a692039ded3f68f7697c2409.png

"Jack" appears using "[email protected]" in communications regarding the escrow transaction that sold CQD.com to James Booth.

Now there is a "Jack K(alfayan)", CEO - Apex Moon LLC - Dubai, UAE, and using a gmail account "[email protected]". Not too professional, but it's a great coincidence in all these emails.

Got an email from
Vince <[email protected]> with "Apex Moon LLC." in the signature. Is it suspicious?

tonecas · Sep 30, 2018

richtrading said:
Got an email from
Vince <[email protected]> with "Apex Moon LLC." in the signature. Is it suspicious?

same guy(s)

equity78 · Oct 1, 2018

Jackson Elsegood said:
@MasterOfMyDomains thanks for the tag. We coordinate and provide info directly to law enforcement for a dispute like this rather than posting transaction info on forums. Our customers' transaction details are never released publicly without all parties' consent.

Escrow.com makes sure that you receive the domain that you paid for, but we do not perform all due diligence over domain ownership and history. Performing due diligence is a personal and potentially lengthy process which we simply could not do with the time available for a typical transaction. Andrew Allemann over at DNW wrote a good short guide to performing DD here: https://domainnamewire.com/2014/10/07/due-diligence-buying-domain-names/

In addition to his comments, I would also add if you are unsure about a domain's ownership after completing your own DD, consider negotiating with the seller to extend the inspection period to give yourself more comfort.

Jackson Elsegood

Jackson are you worried that many then don't see the value in using an escrow company? Or let me say it from a different angle, after this thread and subsequent discussions on many publications, I got two common questions/ themes.

1) Raymond I thought all you people say to use an escrow company and I thought that guaranteed a secure transaction.

2) What exactly am I paying for if there is no protection from being scammed?

richtrading · Oct 1, 2018

tonecas said:
same guy(s)

I wonder what the scam exactly is, he said he wanted to buy.

richtrading · Oct 1, 2018

What's a regular process for returning a stolen? Just wondering, if someone approaches and says a domain is theirs, would you give it back immediately?

A few workarounds for these issues with valuable domains. (This is for internet sales - even b better to meet in person, with ID, solicitors, proof of ownership and work this way)

1. Ask seller to move the domain to a known trustworthy, helpful Registrar.
2. Seller pushes name to Escrow provider account. And it is held there for 60-day inspection period.
3. At end of 60 days, don't "push" the domain, but transfer it to another registrar you trust by auth code, in your own country.

These long steps, will allow time for any real owner of the domain to come out the woodwork ..

tonecas · Oct 1, 2018

richtrading said:
I wonder what the scam exactly is, he said he wanted to buy.

don't believe there is any scam. he is just wanting to buy.
the issue here is his dubious participation in the messy situation described in this thread.

richtrading · Oct 1, 2018

tonecas said:
don't believe there is any scam. he is just wanting to buy.
the issue here is his dubious participation in the messy situation described in this thread.

Ok thank you. Sorry maybe I missed it the link.. there are (50) pages... I read the connection is the "JackK" sounding similar to "Jake"? and Jack K is ceo of Apex Moon LLC

CentaurAtlas · Jan 31, 2019

richtrading said:
I wonder what the scam exactly is, he said he wanted to buy.

I too just got an email from them about a 5 letter word .com name from 1993 or 1994, and it came from : apexmoon1 at gmail
signed: Jack Kal (CEO etc)

That's what lead me to this thread.

Did anyone ever find out if he was involved in this or just a bystander who got caught in the middle?

Thanks!

richtrading · Jan 31, 2019

CentaurAtlas said:
I too just got an email from them about a 5 letter word .com name from 1993 or 1994, and it came from : apexmoon1 at gmail
signed: Jack Kal (CEO etc)

That's what lead me to this thread.

Did anyone ever find out if he was involved in this or just a bystander who got caught in the middle?

Thanks!

Better ask Jack. Let us know

Name Trader · Jan 31, 2019

CentaurAtlas said:
I too just got an email from them about a 5 letter word .com name from 1993 or 1994, and it came from : apexmoon1 at gmail
signed: Jack Kal (CEO etc)

That's what lead me to this thread.

Did anyone ever find out if he was involved in this or just a bystander who got caught in the middle?

Thanks!

Welcome to a new member from 2006 and congratulations on your first post. Ten stars with zero activity. Wow! Never seen that before.

Lord Antares · Feb 1, 2019

Wow, what a thread. I took hours to read 30 pages of it. I cannot do it anymore and I need to go to sleep.

What a riveting read. Can anyone sum up pages 30-50? How did this end?

equity78 · Feb 1, 2019

Lord Antares said:
Wow, what a thread. I took hours to read 30 pages of it. I cannot do it anymore and I need to go to sleep.

What a riveting read. Can anyone sum up pages 30-50? How did this end?

The lady got the domain back.

Lord Antares · Feb 1, 2019

equity78 said:
The lady got the domain back.

So booth ended up $26k short? Did he willfully give the domain back or was it taken from him? I would imagine it was the latter given his stance on the matter (I would feel the same way).

Shit, I'll have to tune in for the sequel tomorrow.

creataweb · Feb 1, 2019

This thread still alive? Amazing.

tonecas · Feb 1, 2019

Lord Antares said:
So booth ended up $26k short? Did he willfully give the domain back or was it taken from him?

He said he did, but the lady said no.
Network Solutions that did not see anything, then saw it all when giving it to Booth, then forgot it all when the issue got heat here.
Lady got her domain back.
Booth kept on with his life of a big star broker, one of the top according to Escrow.com
Escrow.com kept its professional duty silence and never disclosed anything, not even the bugs they had or still have, we will never know for professional duty silence matters.

I believe this is a good wrap of this story.
No need to read thru the rest. Keep calm. Move along. Business as usual.

carob · Feb 1, 2019

equity78 said:
The lady got the domain back.

An then Netsol took it away again.

And then she got it back again.

Netsol forcibly removed the same domain from a user's account three different times. Will they do it again? Stay tuned.

golan · Feb 1, 2019

tonecas said:
Escrow.com kept its professional duty silence and never disclosed anything, not even the bugs they had or still have, we will never know for professional duty silence matters.

They were super quick however to jump into Epik Escrow thread, accusing Epik in not having escrow license. Like that's what matters, not the business processes nor the attitude towards your clients.

richtrading · Feb 1, 2019

tonecas said:
He said he did, but the lady said no.
Network Solutions that did not see anything, then saw it all when giving it to Booth, then forgot it all when the issue got heat here.
Lady got her domain back.
Booth kept on with his life of a big star broker, one of the top according to Escrow.com
Escrow.com kept its professional duty silence and never disclosed anything, not even the bugs they had or still have, we will never know for professional duty silence matters.

I believe this is a good wrap of this story.
No need to read thru the rest. Keep calm. Move along. Business as usual.

Re this domain - did Escrow.com reimburse Booth? Possibly that is what happened, if it was their due diligence and reputation at stake of irreparable damage.

Escrow.com never replied to me when I informed them of a possible security bug a few months ago. Is it probably still there?

MapleDots · Feb 1, 2019

Seriously..... I cannot say I follow all the details of this enormous topic but I find it strangely intoxicating to come back and check on it periodically.

tonecas said:
He said he did, but the lady said no.
Network Solutions that did not see anything, then saw it all when giving it to Booth, then forgot it all when the issue got heat here.
Lady got her domain back.
Booth kept on with his life of a big star broker, one of the top according to Escrow.com
Escrow.com kept its professional duty silence and never disclosed anything, not even the bugs they had or still have, we will never know for professional duty silence matters.

I believe this is a good wrap of this story.
No need to read thru the rest. Keep calm. Move along. Business as usual.

A well short recap of some of the facts and solutions would probably make a great ending to this topic.

At this point your response is probably pretty close to that.

I really feel for Booth though, I sure hope he got his money back, it would suck to buy something and not get what you paid for.

Name Trader · Feb 1, 2019

MapleDots said:
I really feel for Booth though, I sure hope he got his money back, it would suck to buy something and not get what you paid for.

It would seem to me that his due diligence wasn't up to scratch with this domain. We probably will never know if he got refunded or not. But he's a big boy. He's probably made up for this loss, if he did lose it, with his next trade, and al least by 1/4 of the way thru this thread

You win some, you lose some (hopefully not too many) when you are dealing in this murky area of stolen domains. Most of which are LLL.COM. He was Trading with this domain. Not Brokering. There are more risks involved.

I hope the original owner has also learned their lesson and has/will transfer their domain away from NetSol.

MapleDots · Feb 1, 2019

stub said:
I hope the original owner has also learned their lesson and has/will transfer their domain away from NetSol.

If I ever own a high risk domain I will probably put it into EPIK, it seems to me they are very secure and one of the most approachable registrars. I bet if this situation arose there Rob Monster would have been right on it instead of the radio silence at netsol.

Name Trader · Feb 1, 2019

MapleDots said:
If I ever own a high risk domain I will probably put it into EPIK, it seems to me they are very secure and one of the most approachable registrars. I bet if this situation arose there Rob Monster would have been right on it instead of the radio silence at netsol.

He's probably the most pro-active of all the registrar owners.

Name Trader · Feb 1, 2019

Let this be a lesson, not to be repeated, that NetSol is not a reliable registrar to hold your domains. Too much drama.

richtrading · Feb 1, 2019

stub said:
He's probably the most pro-active of all the registrar owners.

It seems like using auth codes for domains purchased at a well known, established, proven reliable Registrar is point (1) on any process.

Is there any difference to due diligence with an account "push" compared to using an auth code? I'd be included to prefer to use an auth code at well known established reliable registrar in my home country, rather than one in a foreign jurisdiction.

Or go via an escrow service with a 90-day holding period. This is common in the property/real-estate. in the UK we even have a 6-month AML Anti Money Laundering limit (restricted to do in under 6-months anything with a property). Most scammers stories unravel within 6 months I expect...

discuss [Resolved] Domainer Loses $26k On A Stolen Domain!

Domains88.comTop Member

Escrow.comVIP Member

Established Member

Top Member

Top Member

Established Member

Established Member

Top Member

Established Member

New Member

Established Member

formerly @stubTop Member

Top Member

Top Member

Top Member

Some Guy with Awesome Senior High School PhotoTop Member

Top Member

Top Member

GolanMedia.comTop Member

Established Member

Account Closed (Requested)

formerly @stubTop Member

Account Closed (Requested)

formerly @stubTop Member

formerly @stubTop Member

Established Member

Similar threads

We're social

Pinned

Appreciation

Agreement