Can you lose your domain for redirecting to someone else's website?

MapleDots · Jan 4, 2019

I came across an interesting scenario today where a member asked me if I was interested in a couple of domain names. Now as I usually do I right click the domain name and see if it heads to a lander or a portfolio of some kind.

To my surprise the domain actually forwarded to the standard google search page.

This actually leads me to an interesting question....

If one forwards a singular (or multiple domains) to another website like google (or something else) does one not pose a great risk to losing the domain in a UDRP decision?

So let's say you have a domain name that is the same subject as my business website and I am not interested in buying it. So the owner forwards the domain to my website hoping that I bite and eventually buy it. I would probably go after his domain saying it was registered in bad faith and there is a good chance I may acquire the name.

So this is actually a two part topic

1. Obviously if one redirects a domain in hopes of selling it the person at the business end of the redirect would have a good case against the domain owner.

2. Even redirecting to safe havens like a google search page could put you at risk if google (or similar) wanted the domain.

So what do you guys think..... is the member taking a risk forwarding his domain to google?

Would you risk any domain pointing it to a website you don't have an agreement with?

Brands.International · Jan 4, 2019

If you have valuable domain name for sale:

a) do not redirect it anywhere

b) make sure it does not display adds (parking revenue is now almost 0 for most domains anyway, so not worth the risk)

c) make sure it resolves using safe lander pages, provided for example by undeveloped.com - those are specially designed to minimize risks of UDPRs, C&D letters, etc...

DN_Hunter · Jan 4, 2019

Interesting discussion as I was just wondering about a couple of my own domain names that I actually redirect to my Domain Name Market Place. Is it ok to redirect my own names to my own market place?

Bob Hawkes · Jan 4, 2019

An interesting question - thanks for starting thread @MapleDots .

I don't see any advantage so unclear to me why it was done. Was masking on or off?

Generally agree with @lolwarrior re best only to have it set to go to a safe lander like Undeveloped, or to your own website in my opinion is fine to comment re @DN_Hunter question). In the 60 day lock period I don't normally list mine on Undeveloped even with make offer but I do point them to my own website often.

Would be interesting to hear what some with legal expertise think of the issue.

Bob

Brands.International · Jan 4, 2019

DN_Hunter said:
Interesting discussion as I was just wondering about a couple of my own domain names that I actually redirect to my Domain Name Market Place. Is it ok to redirect my own names to my own market place?

In some cases it will cost you your domain name in UDRP (reason: complainant will use it as an argument that you use domain related to "whateverclaimtheyhave" to bring traffic to your marketplace, and thus abusing their "whateverclaimtheyhave". I would not recommend it, particularly in case you feel your name is UDRP sensitive.

DN_Hunter · Jan 4, 2019

lolwarrior said:
In some cases it will cost you your domain name in UDRP (reason: complainant will use it as an argument that you use domain related to "whateverclaimtheyhave" to bring traffic to your marketplace, and thus abusing their "whateverclaimtheyhave". I would not recommend it, particularly in case you feel your name is UDRP sensitive.

in my case, let's say my market place is setup to offer Domain Names for sale. What if I pointed "GetYourOnlineNameToday.ExampleExtension" to my online Market place for Domain Names. I'm really just redirecting some of my names that are related to Domain Names to my market place. I hope that's ok...

MapleDots · Jan 4, 2019

Bob Hawkes said:
I don't see any advantage so unclear to me why it was done. Was masking on or off?

No masking.... just enter the domain in the address bar and it forwards to google.com

Bob Hawkes · Jan 4, 2019

I don't disagree with @lolwarrior if you have a UDRP sensitive domain name might be problematic sending to your own site (although surely same reasoning could be used for an Undeveloped lander that also shows my other domain names for sale?.

In those cases (which hopefully most people most of the time are not in

) my (nonlegal) opinion based on reading some UDRP decisions would be the the safest thing is to create a two page or so mini-site that clearly uses the name for something unrelated / generic, as some of the recent cases seemed to hold it against the holder that they did nothing with the name at all (e.g. a coming soon or unresolved status). Now in my opinion the body is over-stepping in these decisions - the BCG in (top) particularly concerned me. Of course domain owners that don't respond are weakening their case.

Bob

MapleDots · Jan 4, 2019

DN_Hunter said:
in my case, let's say my market place is setup to offer Domain Names for sale. What if I pointed "GetYourOnlineNameToday.ExampleExtension" to my online Market place for Domain Names. I'm really just redirecting some of my names that are related to Domain Names to my market place. I hope that's ok...

You are using efty as a service and redirecting to your own marketplace so there are no issues there.

So pretend you redirect a domain to my lander page.

Are you safe now?

MapleDots · Jan 4, 2019

Bob Hawkes said:
if you have a UDRP sensitive domain

All domains are UDRP sensitive if someone wants them.

Anyone can launch a UDRP for most any reason and the domain owner has to defend.
Giving someone ammunition be redirecting to their website is just making the process easier for the person filing the UDRP.

carob · Jan 4, 2019

Some domainers redirect all domains to a personal blog.

There are several questions and issues here.

Redirect to own site or someone else's?

Redirect to sales site? To sale page of that domain?

Redirect to non-commercial site?

Redirect to related topic site?

Is the concern about appearing to profit off someone's else's TM, for example with ads, or is the concern to not show the domain is for sale, or is the concern to show the domain is actively in use?

Specific to UDRP, "passively holding" a domain that is trademarked is grounds for losing it. Seems in some cases the panelist(s) will accept redirect as active use and grounds to keep the domain. And in others not.

Brands.International · Jan 4, 2019

DN_Hunter said:
in my case, let's say my market place is setup to offer Domain Names for sale. What if I pointed "GetYourOnlineNameToday.ExampleExtension" to my online Market place for Domain Names. I'm really just redirecting some of my names that are related to Domain Names to my market place. I hope that's ok...

If you are using your domains which are not TM infriging as redirections to your markeplace, everything is fine. Those are your domains, you can do what you want with them

But if you would own domains which would be UDRP sensitive (meaning: there are some degrees of probability that someone can have some TM related claims and actually win them), it will certainly not help you if you redirect this kind of domains to your marketplace (as obvious argument of your couter-part would be that you send traffic (which they will claim their TM/brand generates) to your marketplace, thus abusing their TM/brand).

Internet.Domains · Jan 4, 2019

lolwarrior said:
If you are using your domains which are not TM infriging as redirections to your markeplace, everything is fine. Those are your domains, you can do what you want with them

But if you would own domains which would be UDRP sensitive (meaning: there are some degrees of probability that someone can have some TM related claims and actually win them), it will certainly not help you if you redirect this kind of domains to your marketplace (as obvious argument of your couter-part would be that you send traffic (which they will claim their TM/brand generates) to your marketplace, thus abusing their TM/brand).

You should treat all domains as TM infringing as nearly all natural occurring words have been trademarked. To separate from the trademark a domain should not "confuse" with the content provided.

I just wrote about this exact subject:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/you-own-a-trademarked-domain.1117205/

Internet.Domains · Jan 4, 2019

To answer the OP's question. Yes, that confusion can cause loss of domain.

MapleDots · Jan 4, 2019

Internet.Domains said:
You should treat all domains as TM infringing as nearly all natural occurring words have been trademarked. To separate from the trademark a domain should not "confuse" with the content provided.

Yup, you're probably right

I used to be called MapleOne, then MapleDomains and finally MapleDots

I took my inspiration from DippinDots
https://www.dippindots.com/home.html

I was so enamoured by this treat, it just kind of reminded me of domain dots, I cannot explain why

Fortunately we sell two different products.

Internet.Domains · Jan 4, 2019

MapleDots said:
Yup, you're probably right

I used to be called MapleOne, then MapleDomains and finally MapleDots

I took my inspiration from DippinDots
https://www.dippindots.com/home.html

I was so enamoured by this treat, it just kind of reminded me of domain dots, I cannot explain why
Fortunately we sell two different products.

Show attachment 106215

Thank you for the explanation, I can now connect the dots. There is no confusion.

Shamiul · Jan 4, 2019

Some people do it to redirect traffic from social media to any affiliate links. They at first redirect it to Google for a few days before adding the money link. It tricks the crawler bot to think the domain is redirecting to an authentic website; not fraud. It's some kind of strategy to avoid automatic ban or post removal.

Though I am not sure if he did it on this purpose and if he can lose the domain by doing so.

xynames · Jan 5, 2019

Redirects are also used to direct a misspelling of a competitor’s website to your website where you offer a same or similar product or service. I’ve been doing this for years and there is nothing any competitor has ever been able to do about it.

I also use redirects of a product name that sounds like or is similar to what I am selling. Or imply what I am selling. Former now shuttered products of now dead competitors too.

Many many other reasons and forms of redirects too.

All work beautifully.

It’s a little hard to explain exactly how I do all this but then - if I could explain it all precisely in just a few sentences everyone would be doing it to the level that I am.

xynames · Jan 5, 2019

And as far as this:

<<b) make sure it does not display adds (parking revenue is now almost 0 for most domains anyway, so not worth the risk)>>

People repeat that so often that they think it’s true. I won’t get into why it’s not. Just keep believing it and keep depriving yourself of parking income. I still bring in a few hundred dollars a month in parking revenue and have slapped silly anyone who has come at me trying to claim that a simple parked ppc site somehow supports any kind of action against my domain.

frank-germany · Jan 5, 2019

MapleDots said:
Show attachment 106191

So this is actually a two part topic

1. Obviously if one redirects a domain in hopes of selling it the person at the business end of the redirect would have a good case against the domain owner.

2. Even redirecting to safe havens like a google search page could put you at risk if google (or similar) wanted the domain.

So what do you guys think..... is the member taking a risk forwarding his domain to google?

Would you risk any domain pointing it to a website you don't have an agreement with?

thank you

very valid questions

google may have been choose
as trademark risk is low
but no the other hand I see no benefit

redirect to the potential client maybe a good idea
so he can evaluate traffic
but risk maybe involved

better ask a lawyer
then to guess the answer

Internet.Domains · Jan 5, 2019

xynames said:
Redirects are also used to direct a misspelling of a competitor’s website to your website where you offer a same or similar product or service. I’ve been doing this for years and there is nothing any competitor has ever been able to do about it.

I also use redirects of a product name that sounds like or is similar to what I am selling. Or imply what I am selling. Former now shuttered products of now dead competitors too.

Many many other reasons and forms of redirects too.

All work beautifully.

It’s a little hard to explain exactly how I do all this but then - if I could explain it all precisely in just a few sentences everyone would be doing it to the level that I am.

I've pointed out many times how domains with Trademarks can be registered in good faith, but I can't seem to defend what your describing.

ak4586 · Jan 5, 2019

xynames said:
And as far as this:

<<b) make sure it does not display adds (parking revenue is now almost 0 for most domains anyway, so not worth the risk)>>

People repeat that so often that they think it’s true. I won’t get into why it’s not. Just keep believing it and keep depriving yourself of parking income. I still bring in a few hundred dollars a month in parking revenue and have slapped silly anyone who has come at me trying to claim that a simple parked PPC site somehow supports any kind of action against my domain.

Exactly I agree with you

Nikhil Jain · Jan 5, 2019

lolwarrior said:
But if you would own domains which would be UDRP sensitive (meaning: there are some degrees of probability that someone can have some TM related claims and actually win them), it will certainly not help you if you redirect this kind of domains to your marketplace

And what if in the same situation, the domain is being redirected to Undeveloped.com? As that clearly states that the intention of the domain owner is to make profits from selling rather than putting it to use. May be there are no direct TMs, but there could always be businesses in some part of the world that might not have a TM but are popular enought to claim our domain? Probably a legal expert around here could help dig deeper into this thought?

bonin · Jan 5, 2019

I'm sure I read something simmilar, a few years ago.

someone had mentioned that he had sold a domain like that, redirected a domain to a website, and after a few months the owners saw that they had a lot of traffic and decided to buy the domain from it.

Can you lose your domain for redirecting to someone else's website?

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