Social Network Gab.com being threatened by GoDaddy: 24 hours to transfer or suspension

domainguy50 · Oct 29, 2018

backstory: Gab is a social network alternative to twitter. their selling point is free speech (all speech is welcome, including what you believe might be hate speech.) which is basically is the first amendment. no unlawful material is allowed, but virtually any speech is. recently they purchased the "gab com" domain for $220k.

this site is very controversial as a result, with mainstream media outlets claiming it is popular with nazi and anti-semite messages. the site has 800,000 users and has experienced modest growth recently so it really isnt all bad hate speech. regardless, those disgusting messages on the site by some users are also lawful no matter how distasteful they are. as a result of these media attacks, (and the recent revelation that the synagogue shooter in pittsburgh yesterday had an active gab profile) gab is being unfairly targeted by smear campaigns online reporting the site as "a hate speech site" via email to gab's service providers.

gabs host (microsoft) revoked its contract with gab a few months ago

gabs payment providers (paypal and stripe) just revoked their services

just a few minutes ago, godaddy has said they will stop working with gab:
(i cant post the image or link idk why)
"BREAKING: Godaddy is threatening to suspend our domain (which is worth six figures) if we do not transfer to a new provider by tomorrow. This is madness."

the complexity of the situation is compounded by the fact that Gab is on a payment plan to fully own the domain since they recently purchased it. the broker/escrow agent control this which makes it even more difficult for the company to transfer to a new registrar by EOD tomorrow.

I understand that Godaddy is a private business and its clauses may allow it to do this, but this seems extreme overreaction. "24 hours to transfer or else" is a very menacing way of doing business.

-if you were in charge of gab what would you do? create your own payment processor, host, and DNS? they got deplatformed quickly... i guess they could try to get an offshore Hosting company or invest in native hosting.

-what is the most "free speech" friendly DNS provider there is?

-is it fair for internet infrastructure companies to de-platform a small upstart social network because of controversial speech? or should companies like DNS and hosting should be regulated and allow any customer as long as it is lawful content being hosted.

Internet.Domains · Oct 29, 2018

So did Gab encourage violence, or was it a user of Gab who encouraged violence?

This question being answered is at the root of the free speech debate.

Rob Monster · Oct 29, 2018

JB Lions said:
Use him to get what they want. A non-believer that serves as a vessel for them. Basically look the other way, make excuses for him, sell themselves out. Flattering him, comparing him to a King, will do the trick.

I don't think domains will live or die based on GoDaddy or other companies enforcing their TOS against encouraging violence/killing people.

I suggest you research the term "false flag". Find a PDF copy of the book Propaganda by Edward Bernays. Hard copies are almost impossible to find but digital copies are archived all over the web, at least for the moment. Quite frankly, unless you want to live under Orwellian climate of thought police, it is imperative to let freedom ring.

JB Lions · Oct 29, 2018

robepik said:
I suggest you research the term "false flag". Find a PDF copy of the book Propaganda by Edward Bernays. Hard copies are almost impossible to find but digital copies are archived all over the web, at least for the moment. Quite frankly, unless you want to live under Orwellian climate of thought police, it is imperative to let freedom ring.

Oh boy, false flag. I have enough conspiracy nonsense in the other thread.

Internet.Domains said:
So did Gab encourage violence, or was it a user of Gab who encouraged violence? This question being answered is at the root of the free speech debate.

I think it's just about the TOS. You violate it, you can get the boot. There are other places that are ok with this, go there.

Rob Monster · Oct 29, 2018

JB Lions said:
Use him to get what they want. A non-believer that serves as a vessel for them. Basically look the other way, make excuses for him, sell themselves out. Flattering him, comparing him to a King, will do the trick.

I don't think domains will live or die based on GoDaddy or other companies enforcing their TOS against encouraging violence/killing people.

I suggest you research the term "false flag". Find a PDF copy of the book Propaganda by Edward Bernays. Hard copies are almost impossible to find but digital copies are archived all over the web, at least for the moment. Quite frankly, unless you want to live under Orwellian climate of thought police, it is imperative to let freedom ring. Most of the doma

Internet.Domains said:
So did Gab encourage violence, or was it a user of Gab who encouraged violence? This question being answered is at the root of the free speech debate.

You know the answer. In all likelihood, Gab did no such thing. Gun sellers don't kill people. People kill people. Free for all Media platforms don't typically propagate hate as a business model. Nevertheless, occasionally a whack-job (or a patsy) will post something really stupid. Censorship is not without cost.

soidav · Oct 29, 2018

good news. hopefully, arrests are coming.

Internet.Domains · Oct 29, 2018

There has been so many users on Twitter, Facebook, Snapchat etc. that committed acts of violence and posted about it....What I'm trying to see here is, what's the difference with GAB? .....and why ban the domain?

JB Lions · Oct 29, 2018

Internet.Domains said:
There has been so many users on Twitter, Facebook, Snapchat etc. that committed acts of violence and posted about it....What I'm trying to see here is, what's the difference with GAB? .....and why ban the domain?

Violated the TOS.

Epik has a TOS as well:

Further, You may not use the Site or the Services provided through or in connection with the Site to:..............publish, post, distribute, disseminate or link to any: (i) inappropriate, profane, defamatory, infringing, obscene, adult content, nude, indecent or unlawful topic, name, material or information;

What's wrong with nude? What action would you take? Could I use one of the domains I get from Epik to do an artistic nude site?

Internet.Domains · Oct 29, 2018

JB Lions said:
Violated the TOS.

Epik has a TOS as well:

Further, You may not use the Site or the Services provided through or in connection with the Site to:..............publish, post, distribute, disseminate or link to any: (i) inappropriate, profane, defamatory, infringing, obscene, adult content, nude, indecent or unlawful topic, name, material or information;

What's wrong with nude?

What TOS did they violate? I'm looking for specifics. Facts.

JB Lions · Oct 29, 2018

Internet.Domains said:
What TOS did they violate? I'm looking for specifics. Facts.

Posted it earlier. Reread page 1.

Rob Monster · Oct 29, 2018

JB Lions said:
Violated the TOS.

Epik has a TOS as well:

Further, You may not use the Site or the Services provided through or in connection with the Site to:..............publish, post, distribute, disseminate or link to any: (i) inappropriate, profane, defamatory, infringing, obscene, adult content, nude, indecent or unlawful topic, name, material or information;

What's wrong with nude? What action would you take?

That's right, we use discernment. We have a ToS that allows us to do that and do so without violating our own ToS. Takedowns are rare here, but phishing sites come down right away, for example.

JB Lions · Oct 29, 2018

robepik said:
That's right, we use discernment. We have a ToS that allows us to do that and do so without violating our own ToS. Takedowns are rare here, but phishing sites come down right away, for example.

dis·cern·ment
/dəˈsərnmənt/
noun
noun: discernment

1.
the ability to judge well.
"an astonishing lack of discernment"
2.
(in Christian contexts) perception in the absence of judgment with a view to obtaining spiritual direction and understanding.

What happened to Let Freedom Ring and Censorship having a cost? So sometimes you enforce your TOS and you would want users to adhere to your TOS? What about a nude site? Some female on female or male on male? Would that be a violation?

Side note, you can get that book you mentioned on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/Propaganda-Edward-Bernays/dp/0970312598
Looks interesting, uncle was Sigmund Freud

Recons.Com · Oct 29, 2018

JB Lions said:
dis·cern·ment
/dəˈsərnmənt/
noun
noun: discernment

1.
the ability to judge well.
"an astonishing lack of discernment"

2.
(in Christian contexts) perception in the absence of judgment with a view to obtaining spiritual direction and understanding.

What happened to Let Freedom Ring and Censorship having a cost? So sometimes you enforce your TOS and you would want users to adhere to your TOS? What about a nude site? Some female on female or male on male? Would that be a violation?

He would have to look up in the Bible. And then would probably conclude that any nude is sin post Eden.

Internet.Domains · Oct 29, 2018

For sake of public debate, please refrain from personal attacks due to beliefs. After all, that's why we are discussing this.

carob · Oct 29, 2018

domainguy50 said:
the complexity of the situation is compounded by the fact that Gab is on a payment plan to fully own the domain since they recently purchased it. the broker/escrow agent control this which makes it even more difficult for the company to transfer to a new registrar by EOD tomorrow.

Well if they miss a payment ownership probably reverts to the seller of the domain, who gets to keep the payments and can then try to re-sell the domain.

If this does not get resolved and Godaddy cancel the domain, no doubt it will end up in a public auction at Dropcatch.

Rob Monster · Oct 29, 2018

JB Lions said:
dis·cern·ment
/dəˈsərnmənt/
noun
noun: discernment

1.
the ability to judge well.
"an astonishing lack of discernment"

2.
(in Christian contexts) perception in the absence of judgment with a view to obtaining spiritual direction and understanding.

What happened to Let Freedom Ring and Censorship having a cost? So sometimes you enforce your TOS and you would want users to adhere to your TOS? What about a nude site? Some female on female or male on male? Would that be a violation?

Side note, you can get that book you mentioned on Amazon - https://www.amazon.com/Propaganda-Edward-Bernays/dp/0970312598
Looks interesting, uncle was Sigmund Freud

Sure, let me help you understand my logic. Sites get hacked all the time, especially Wordpress sites. Many unwitting customers end up hosting content that they did not intend to host. Should we ban them because they were hacked? It comes down to intent. If someone is deliberately distributing malware, phishing or distributing child porn, we'll shut them down. As for your specific example of a nude site, no, we would not ban them. In fact, there are many adult domains registered at Epik. We don't generally host hard-core porn and would encourage it to be hosted elsewhere.

domainguy50 · Oct 29, 2018

Internet.Domains said:
There has been so many users on Twitter, Facebook, Snapchat etc. that committed acts of violence and posted about it....What I'm trying to see here is, what's the difference with GAB? .....and why ban the domain?

Agreed

Elliot Rodger posted his videos On youtube vowing to kill every sorority girl in the city the next day. youtube did not forward this video to law enforcement and the kid unfortunately did the act the next day. will PayPal and godaddy stop advertising on youtube? Of course not because money is more important to these.companies than morals or values. Its much easier to stifle a small Startup like gab to make a statement While looking the other way at antisemite on facebook, murderers on youtube, and pedophiles on twitter

Rob Monster · Oct 29, 2018

Recons.Com said:
He would have to look up in the Bible. And then would probably conclude that any nude is sin post Eden.

Read Song of Solomon. Some of it would make DH Lawrence blush.

The God that designed the penis and the vagina, and indeed did so across many species, designed it to be pleasurable. Solomon, arguably the richest man of all time, had 700 wives and 300 concubines. Most Christians I know certainly aren't prudes.

This thread is about freedom of speech. If you want to dispense with Rules for Radicals Alinsky-style ad hominem, be my guest, but I will happily engage this debate as long as you like inviting readers to conclude for themselves whether it is better to have Orwellian Newspeak determine every narrative, or whether humanity is better off to be able to research.

Without a doubt, the search for truth is the single most important thing any human can engage in. Indeed, it is the meaning of life. I filled 2 libraries over a 10 year period in my own personal search and the Internet was certainly a key factor in that process. And I know for certainty what is at the end of the rabbit holes and I am thankful for a free Internet for having made that possible.

carob · Oct 29, 2018

In another thread about freedom of speech someone recommended this book, and I actually bought it and I recommend it too. Freedom of speech is challenging.

bmugford · Oct 29, 2018

robepik said:
The Archived site is here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20181028220903/https://gab.com/

As near as I can tell, this does not seem to be a site overtly promoting hateful content. It seems more like a Reddit free for all.

I believe that one of the great challenges for registrars in the coming years will be to maintain a framework for digital sovereignty, particularly as the global control grid moves to silence competing narratives.

The stakeholders in the registrar and hosting industry should be careful to judge prematurely. Winner take all, including in the marketplace for ideas and narrative, is not a good thing for the domain industry.

One thing is clear from their financial statements, and that is that their motivation does not appear to be financial as they have a pretty lousy business model:

https://web.archive.org/web/2018102...70924418000001/GAB_-_Annual_Report_-_2018.pdf

We'll see how this plays out, but GoDaddy's actions are consistent with past actions and endorsement and PIPA and SOPA. How quickly people forget.

Are you open to them transferring the domain to Epik?

Brad

carob · Oct 29, 2018

JB Lions said:
Epik has a TOS as well:

Further, You may not use the Site or the Services provided through or in connection with the Site to:..............publish, post, distribute, disseminate or link to any: (i) inappropriate, profane, defamatory, infringing, obscene, adult content, nude, indecent or unlawful topic, name, material or information;

What's wrong with nude? What action would you take? Could I use one of the domains I get from Epik to do an artistic nude site?

I won't use services such as Blue Host that say they will ban you for nudity.

robepik said:
Sure, let me help you understand my logic. Sites get hacked all the time, especially Wordpress sites. Many unwitting customers end up hosting content that they did not intend to host. Should we ban them because they were hacked? It comes down to intent. If someone is deliberately distributing malware, phishing or distributing child porn, we'll shut them down. As for your specific example of a nude site, no, we would not ban them. In fact, there are many adult domains registered at Epik. We don't generally host hard-core porn and would encourage it to be hosted elsewhere.

The implication here is that the intervention is manual. I hope so. Because in many cases where intervention is automated, bots detect skin tones and can ban you for bikini pics because they think they see nudes.

But can I suggest next you update the term child porn to always use instead the accepted term "child abuse porn" because it always is abuse, children cannot consent to being in such stuff.

For info, Rob at Epik is a man of principle, whether or not you agree with his principles, and has stood up to bullying by proxies of the pharma industry by insisting on due process for cancelling pharma-related domains.

Rob Monster · Oct 29, 2018

bmugford said:
Are you open to them transferring the domain to Epik?

Brad

I actually want to talk to their CEO. I have not decided.

bmugford · Oct 29, 2018

robepik said:
I actually want to talk to their CEO. I have not decided.

I was just wondering because free speech issues aside, I doubt the optics are going to look real good for the new registrar.

Brad

Internet.Domains · Oct 29, 2018

bmugford said:
I was just wondering because free speech issues aside, I doubt the optics are going to look real good for the new registrar.

Brad

This appears to be a "free speech issue". I am not sure you can put this aside.

bmugford · Oct 29, 2018

carob said:
If this does not get resolved and Godaddy cancel the domain, no doubt it will end up in a public auction at Dropcatch.

The domain will never actually be cancelled and deleted. That would create a ridiculous premise when it came to ownership rights. I doubt GoDaddy wants to open up that can of worms.

What GoDaddy would likely do is just put it in a suspended state until the domain was actually transferred.

Brad

Rob Monster · Oct 29, 2018

bmugford said:
I was just wondering because free speech issues aside, I doubt the optics are going to look real good for the new registrar.

Brad

Yup, certainly not a decision I would take lightly. However, sometimes the mainstream media echo-chamber goes too far in throwing out a baby with the bathwater, which is why I am willing to take a look and hear the guy out. The issue is one of precedent. If they can take down Gab because one nut publishes nutty content, then we have a problem.

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