status-done Responded to my wanted ad, then refused to sell

vital · Jun 25, 2018

I recently experienced weird negotiation here on namepros, so I'd like to get a feedback from others before I move on.

I published Buyer request, looking for 5 - 6 letter cheap brandable .com domain for a small client.
Received a lot of submissions and contacted few members. Client decided to make offer on one of the submitted domains which was registered few days ago, so I did so.

Buyers original price was $147, but he quickly went down to $80. We offered him $50.

Messages from Jun 16, 2018

I said:
___.com price?

He said:
Hi vital, the price is $147 for ___.com as it just got accepted by Brandpa at $___ and I've just paid to get it listed. Thanks

I said:
thanks

He said:
What would your offer be?

I said:
since it's fresh reg. I'd offer $50 max

He said:
How about $80?

I said:
sorry. thank you anyway

He said:
Ok, let me consider. Thanks

If he didn't post his last message, that would be pretty much it. However, I notified my client that he will consider our offer and let us know.

Jun 20, 2018

I said:
hello. decision time today. do we have a deal at $50?

Jun 22, 2018

I said:
waiting for your response. thank you for your time

Jun 23, 2018

I said:
please, let me know. maybe we could do $60 - message me. thanks

Client kept asking for a status update, so I sent few messages, as you can see above. I also told my client to just buy the domain at $80, but they didn't want to pay that much for particular hand reg. so we offered $60, just to see what is going on. Still without any response. Even though I saw him posting on the forums regularly, every day I messaged him.

So I decided to send one more message:

Jun 24, 2018

I said:
Message me please. I want to buy ___.com from you.

Thanks.

And finally I received response:

Jun 24, 2018

He said:
Hello vital, I will hold on to it for now as it just got published on Brandpa and I'm looking for a higher price.

Thanks for the interest.

Jun 25, 2018

I said:
I’ll pay your price - $80, ok? Just don’t make all that time I waited for your reply wasted. Why would you respond to wanted ad if you didn’t want to sell? Doesn’t sound fair to me.

He said:
Hi vital, I prefer to sell at the original asking price of $147, as I think it is quite a premium and short 6L CVCVCV that is also an English brandable word and an exact Italian word in the adult niche.

Thanks

I said:
Cant buy it at 147. You wanted 80, my client had budget constraint of 50, so I tried to negotiate, but as you were not responding, they said ok, go with the original price which was 80, because maybe its the price.

I am trying to find an alternative name with the client already, but If you can sell at 80, we would still take it.

Let me know. Thanks

He said:
Hi vital, I actually needed some funds last week to fund some purchases, which is why I lowered the price. But have since made a few sales, and don't really require to sell the domains. Also, I have just seen lesser Brandpa domains getting sold easily at $100 and above in the aftermarket, hence my asking price.

I can lower it slightly to $137. But this is really as low as it can go at the moment. Thanks

I said:
Thanks for the response. I’ll figure what other members think, as it seems to be unacceptable practice on serious forums (btw i confirmed interest last week).

If others say I should leave negative feedback, I will have to do so. If not, you’re good to go and continue wasting time of other members.

Have a good day.

Few points to note:

This is not a big deal at all. It's not about money, nor about the domain name itself. It comes down to a principles and I am here to learn, so I want to know what you guys think. I am not interested in buying the domain anymore - this is not a blackmailing to get the name after all.
I understand that the seller is no longer obligated to sell the domain after I made him counter offer. I am perfectly fine with that and it always worked that way.
I truly understand that he might not be interested in $50, $60, $80 or whatever offer I made him. It's his right.

What I am not happy about:

Ignoring my messages.
Increasing price after expressing interest.
Wasting time in general (why submitting a domain, pricing it at $80 when not willing to sell?)

Do you think it's perfectly fine? Or maybe not?

The username and domain name are removed. Again, this thread is not meant to be seller defamation in any way.

Thank you very much!
Martin

anantj · Jun 25, 2018

I do not think an agreement was reached. There is no obligation on the seller's part to accept your acceptance of an offer to sell that was already declined. While not responding is unprofessional, he did say he'd think about it. That in no way construes that the seller will accept your offer.
Based on the quoted conversation, I do not believe the seller did anything wrong!

On our specific points:

vital said:
Ignoring my messages.

Agree this is not cool and is unprofessional.

vital said:
Increasing price after expressing interest.

They were not happy with the price that you offered (and presumably the reason for their radio silence). Increasing price after interest is a negotation tactic. Price was not increased after an agreement was reached. IMO, for a mere $30, you lost out on a potentially good domain! I don't see the rationale behind it. You mentioned client so I'm assuming you're brokering the buy and further, that your client is an end use. I do understand budgetary constraints but we're not talking about a 100K domain where you're negotiating to get the price down by a few thousand(s) of dollars.

vital said:
Wasting time in general (why submitting a domain, pricing it at $80 when not willing to sell?)

I think they submitted the domain at a price of $147 and then lowered it as they wanted a quick sale and urgent cash. You dithered and they had second thoughts so decided the domain was worth more than the $80 they offered to sell it for.

Here's a question for you: What was your original buy request for? What was the expressed budget per domain?

NB: If you are indeed brokering the buy, do you think it is worth your time to be brokering buys for clients with a $50 budget? Even if you get a generous 30% fee, that's at most $15 which is nearly equal to min wage in the US (more in other countries but that's not the point). Is that a good utilization of the amount of time and effort you seem to be putting in for this buy? Assuming this was a deal for an individual domain and not a bulk buy brokerage

vital · Jun 25, 2018

@anantj thank you for your opinion. I am here to learn.

There was no brokerage going on in the background. I was buying for my business client. They asked me to help get them nice available domain, so I suggested buying cheap brandable, which would be around the same price and the process could be easier. I am getting 0% ($0), it's all about my honest help. I am not trying to make money on deals like that.

They were considering tens of domains, somehow they decided to go with this one. Not that it was 100% better than everything else submitted, they just wanted something. Not a big deal at all - it reflects their budget.

johnn · Jun 25, 2018

Simple - communication problems.

1. Seller should state that the offer price is not good forever - I normally say 24 hours max
2. Ignoring may mean he is upset because he thinks you are trying to low ball him

Not much difference between $50-$80 if the name is good.
I don't understand why some people nickel and dime on the name that they want - I saw too many auction the high bid is $175 and BIN is $200 and no one buy it at BIN. I snatched at BIN several times with the auction like this.

vital · Jun 25, 2018

@johnn thanks. The name wasn't that fancy (hand registered 25 days ago I think) - I was actually trying to steer the wheel somewhere else. This one sounded weird to me, but in the end they decided to go with it. I wouldn't pay reg fee honestly, but then again - it wasn't for me, so my opinion doesn't matter here.

Josh R · Jun 25, 2018

Nothing to write about here.

You should close this thread.

karmaco · Jun 25, 2018

Pm’s are negotiation tools not contracts. I am not surprised the price went up when they got accepted at a marketplace and they paid the fee to list. You should assume the domain is not available if you don’t hear back just like I would assume you are not interested if I get no prompt reply to a PM.

hwgriffi · Jun 25, 2018

vital said:
I also told my client to just buy the domain at $80, but they didn't want to pay that much for particular hand reg. so we offered $60

This was 80% your clients fault for not paying the $20 difference; 20% your fault for not being able to convince your client to spend the extra $20.

Losing the desired name over a family trip to McDonalds ($20 USD) is a bit absurd.

xynames · Jun 25, 2018

Legally, your renewed counteroffer at 50 (and at 60) extinguished the 80 offer.

Yes it seems not right that after further back and forth seller would not accept his own 80 offer but he’s under no legal obligation to do so.

Now, right now I’ve got this bum who offered 199 for a domain, I countered at 1500, he said “500 at most” and offered 500, then we opened escrow at his request at the 500 price and he disappeared and eventually escrow auto cancelled.

urlurl · Jun 25, 2018

there was no deal made and was still in the negotiating process. If you had originally accepted the $80 at the start instead of trying to negotiating it down you would have had a deal.

As it stands, the seller can sell the name for what ever price now.

vital · Jun 25, 2018

I agree with everything except the numbers stuff...

hwgriffi said:
This was 80% your clients fault for not paying the $20 difference; 20% your fault for not being able to convince your client to spend the extra $20.

Losing the desired name over a family trip to McDonalds ($20 USD) is a bit absurd.

Does it matter if it is $50 vs. $80 or $50k vs. $80k?
For me it's still 60% more.

There are parts of the world where money value is a little bit different. Also, not every project is made for profit, not everything is about money at all. If I decide to spend $50, it means I want to spend $50, not a family trip to McD more...

johname · Jun 25, 2018

Feels you gave hints that you really did want the name badly even though you drew a line in the sand price wise, so seller spent more time thinking about the domain and decided to keep it for now.

vital · Jun 25, 2018

@johname I feel it the same way. It must felt I want the name badly, even though it was just one of the many... I sent multiple messages to make sure I am done with this one, but it caused the opposite.

Funny thing is that I accidentally googled that domain string today and found out it has negative connotation, so the potential buyer is no longer interested. win-win after all

xynames · Jun 25, 2018

This was all for a client? What were you going to make on an eighty dollar deal?

vital · Jun 25, 2018

Again:

There was no brokerage going on in the background. I was buying for my business client. They asked me to help get them nice available domain, so I suggested buying cheap brandable, which would be around the same price and the process could be easier. I am getting 0% ($0), it's all about my honest help. I am not trying to make money on deals like that.

I agree that client wasn't the right word choice there.

Anyway, you're focusing on the wrong part of my post.

Kate · Jun 25, 2018

You snooze you lose.
If the name is good enough you shouldn't be arguing over a few tenners.

dhyane · Jun 26, 2018

For a good domains these tug-of-war happens since the offer is not significant.

anantj · Jun 26, 2018

vital said:
If I decide to spend $50, it means I want to spend $50,

Was this explicitly specified in your buy request or not?

equity78 · Jun 26, 2018

Well this brings to light a bigger problem with Domain Wanted threads.

They are done in private and usually without any qualifiers, in this case I don't think a deal was ever made.

But it is all about the communication, and not just in this example.

Since the domains wanted forum is wild, with so many off topic replies, people don't reply if they are not interested, a lot of the time. But sometimes someone might be busy and then gets a pm they like. So if I sent someone a name BrandableExample.com for $300 and I don't hear back, I take it not interested, no problem. I then sell it a couple days later on Namepros or Sedo or GoDaddy.

The original prospective buyer comes back I will take it for $300. Sorry no longer available, they flip out you sent me a pm offering it for $300 and you had no expiry date on that name.

Now I know some people smartly attach an expiry on the offer, but maybe that should become a standard. I know people have said to me an offer in an email can be considered a contract, what about pm's on Namepros? My answer has always been I don't know. Open for different interpretations I am sure.

anantj · Jun 26, 2018

anantj said:
Was this explicitly specified in your buy request or not?

Was it one of these WTB threads:

vital said:
Looking for the best domain I can get for $50 - $150.

Looking to buy single domain, either 5 letter or 6 letter .com. .COM ONLY!

Must be super pronounceable, easy to remember, passing radio test, preffering western premium letters as consonants.

Please, send me what you have. Multiple submission per user are fine as long as you filter it down to only what meets my requirements.

Thank you in advance!

vital said:
Looking to buy single domain for $25 - $250

Intended use: ecommerce & marketing news
Word(s) we would like to see in the domain (not necessarily): news, ecommerce, marketing, media.
Brandables allowed too, but gotta be good ones. If brandable, it must sound really good and should look as a one word.

We typically get a ton of suggestion with 5 - 10% success rate (10% of submissions meets the criteria), so I reserve right to not answer every single PM.

Please, read twice.
Don't send lists of countless non-pronounceable brandables that you can't get rid of.

Thank you for reading.

Martin

Dave · Jun 26, 2018

The seller has done nothing wrong. There was no acceptance of your offer.

vital said:
@johnnThe name wasn't that fancy (hand registered 25 days ago I think).

Here we go again with that mentality.

bmugford · Jun 26, 2018

Here is my take -

1.) No deal was reached. Once you countered the asking price the seller is not bound to honor that price.
2.) That is a lot of time and energy spent on $50 - $80 domain sale.
3.) Should have just paid the extra money if you wanted the domain.

Brad

vital · Jun 27, 2018

Thank you all. I understand that there was mistake on our side. We should either pass on it (that's what I recommended to the buyer) or buy it for their price without further negotiation, as it was in their budget after all. The whole situation was outcome of them not wanting to pay that much for a fresh regd name. I was wrong when I thought that it isn't fair business practice to increase the price after seeing some interest - it is pretty standard.

Thanks for opinions and help!

xynames · Jun 28, 2018

xynames said:
Now, right now I’ve got this bum who offered 199 for a domain, I countered at 1500, he said “500 at most” and offered 500, then we opened escrow at his request at the 500 price and he disappeared and eventually escrow auto cancelled.

After he disappeared and escrow auto-cancelled, I emailed him told him I'd post his name address and phone number online at my website as a deadbeat domain buyer, and I guess it got to him, because he had me re-open escrow and actually funded it this time! after I promised that if he performed I would not post his info online. Waiting on escrow's close now.

Now I actually feel bad (a little) for being so harsh with the guy, but he would have not performed otherwise.

vital · Jun 28, 2018

@xynames Congrats, good to hear it worked out. You gotta be tough in business sometimes.

I was also on the other side recently, when guy offered $2000 for a domain and I countered $4,800 which was price the domain was listed on GD and Uni for. The guy didn't respond so I asked him again if he is interested (wasn't sure he received my msg) and he said he was surprised I countered with $4,8k when the domain is available on Sedo for $2,9xx. I found out it was my fault and the domain was in fact listed there, so I made him a deal at $2000. Sometimes it's good to admit a mistake and act fairly, even if it doesn't make too much sense business wise.

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