.ca Dot CA Discussion, Sales, and Showcase

whitebark · Jul 7, 2008

Domains For Next MyID .ca Auction

These are the upcoming domains and reserve range for the next/current myid.ca auction:

666.ca ($1751 - $2500)
Acrobats.ca ($251 - $500)
affordabletrips.ca ($251 - $500)
AirportRentals.ca ($1001 - $1750)
albertabyowner.ca ($251 - $500)
BridalOnline.ca ($1001 - $1750)
Broke.ca ($5001 - $7500)
CanadianDrugStores.ca ($501 - $750)
CanadianTennis.ca ($1001 - $1750)
CarStore.ca ($1001 - $1750)
CheaperFlights.ca ($101 - $250)
CraftSales.ca ($501 - $750)
DiscountTours.ca ($1001 - $1750)
DivorceTips.ca ($501 - $750)
DownloadFreeRingtone(s).ca ($2 - $100)
DUILawyers.ca ($1001 - $1750)
EasyIncome.ca ($751 - $1000)
EcoVoyage.ca ($251 - $500)
EngineeringCareer.ca ($751 - $1000)
Enlargement(s).ca ($751 - $1000)
ExoticHolidays.ca ($1001 - $1750)
FashionOnline.ca ($2501 - $3750)
Fertiliser.ca ($1001 - $1750)
FitnessJob.ca ($751 - $1000)
FlightSearch.ca ($1001 - $1750)
Freebies.ca ($7501 - $10000)
FreelancingJobs.ca ($2501 - $3750)
FurnitureLiquidation.ca ($751 - $1000)
GayBlog.ca ($251 - $500)
GayCanada.ca ($3751 - $5000)
HealthGuide.ca ($1001 - $1750)
HearingAids.ca ($7501 - $10000)
Hired.ca ($7501 - $10000)
HockeyGame.ca ($1001 - $1750)
homegardens.ca ($251 - $500)
HowToDance.ca ($501 - $750)
iBlogs.ca ($751 - $1000)
InternetHelp.ca ($251 - $500)
InternetPhones.ca ($1751 - $2500)
JFK.ca ($1001 - $1750)
JointVenture.ca ($2501 - $3750)
KitchenWare.ca ($1001 - $1750)
Lake-Ontario.ca ($1001 - $1750)
LogosOnline.ca ($501 - $750)
Mask.ca ($3751 - $5000)
MontrealLaser.ca ($251 - $500)
MontrealTravel.ca ($1001 - $1750)
MusicJob.ca ($751 - $1000)
NutritionJob.ca ($751 - $1000)
OakvilleFlowers.ca ($501 - $750)
OnlineCoupons.ca ($1001 - $1750)
OnlineDates.ca ($2501 - $3750)
OnlineGaming.ca ($2501 - $3750)
OnlineStock.ca ($751 - $1000)
OnlineStocks.ca ($751 - $1000)
OrganicStore.ca ($1751 - $2500)
PharmaceuticalCareer.ca ($751 - $1000)
PizzaRestaurant(s).ca ($101 - $250)
PrivatePilots.ca ($501 - $750)
ProFootball.ca ($251 - $500)
QuebecHoneymoons.ca ($1001 - $1750)
RollerBlading.ca ($5001 - $7500)
SaskatoonRealtors.ca ($101 - $250)
SelfImprovement.ca ($1751 - $2500)
Sensual.ca ($10001 - $15000)
Shareware.ca ($15001 - $25000)
SingleChristian.ca ($251 - $500)
SmallJob.ca ($1001 - $1750)
SNN.ca ($251 - $500)
Snores.ca ($1751 - $2500)
SportsStore.ca ($501 - $750)
TechJobs.ca ($2501 - $3750)
TeddyBear.ca ($1001 - $1750)
Theme.ca ($2501 - $3750)
TNN.ca ($251 - $500)
TorontoComputer.ca ($251 - $500)
TorontoComputers.ca ($251 - $500)
TorontoDentists.ca ($2501 - $3750)
TravelAuction.ca ($2501 - $3750)
UniqueGifts.ca ($2501 - $3750)
UsedHouses.ca ($251 - $500)
UsedLaptops.ca ($1751 - $2500)
Valuable.ca ($501 - $750)
VancouverHomeForSale.ca ($101 - $250)
War.ca ($1751 - $2500)
Women.ca ($50000)

I can see a number of these getting picked up - there a few others I'm surprised they accepted the high reserve and can't see selling because of it. What do you think?

HotKey · May 19, 2018

A customer and I yesterday got into discussing networking, and as always, anytime I smell an inkling of someone being somewhat "tekkie", I will probe for domain name interest. As it turns out, he actually owned a few. One of them was called Holo/Hotel(.ca). I was thoroughly impressed with the name, he had hand-registered it just recently. Looks it's developed into a cheesy little arcadey/connecting site, but I think a LOT could be done with the name.

Any boo, just an observation, endusers still easily finding amazing dot-ca's on their own to register, indicating the challenge for us investors in this niche. It is to be expected, and not to be discouraged, with the Canadian citizenship limitation implemented on our domains.

I am not for opening the doors, should it ever be considered.

MasterOfMyDomains · May 19, 2018

From CIRA
Domains registered: 2,751,350

Lots of options left compared to .com we have to sell our .ca
Unlike .com that sells itself.
I agree keep .ca Canadian
as people in Canada search for their perfect .com and realize they are all gone, .ca will become more in demand.

Thanks for sharing that hotkey.

My google analytics are showing very few hits for .ca
My 4L.net is getting most traffic

deez007 · May 19, 2018

HotKey said:
A customer and I yesterday got into discussing networking, and as always, anytime I smell an inkling of someone being somewhat "tekkie", I will probe for domain name interest. As it turns out, he actually owned a few. One of them was called Holo/Hotel(.ca). I was thoroughly impressed with the name, he had hand-registered it just recently. Looks it's developed into a cheesy little arcadey/connecting site, but I think a LOT could be done with the name.

Any boo, just an observation, endusers still easily finding amazing dot-ca's on their own to register, indicating the challenge for us investors in this niche. It is to be expected, and not to be discouraged, with the Canadian citizenship limitation implemented on our domains.

I am not for opening the doors, should it ever be considered.

A work around for the Canadian citizenship issue for the domains is to use a service like AramexGlobalShopper.com - It gives me an actual address in over 20 countries around the world

HotKey · May 19, 2018

deez007 said:
A work around for the Canadian citizenship issue for the domains is to use a service like AramexGlobalShopper.com - It gives me an actual address in over 20 countries around the world

Like a trustee service of sorts? Smart concept. I remember when the .je/.gg registry used to mail out my renewals every year, imagine if CIRA ever implemented a procedure like that..

deez007 · May 19, 2018

HotKey said:
Like a trustee service of sorts? Smart concept. I remember when the .je/.gg registry used to mail out my renewals every year, imagine if CIRA ever implemented a procedure like that..

Basically, the main purpose of the service is for you to have a delivery address in countries around the world, which is great when you want to order an item from a specific country then have it shipped to your aramex address in that country and use aramex to deliver to you in your local country.... off course for us domainers it has other uses as well

dtagr · May 20, 2018

Honestly, you guys frustrate me to no end. What is the benefit of reducing potential customers from 7,000,000,000 to 35,000,000? Count the zeros. Please make the business case for eliminating your customer base.
The only reasoning I have read from the protectionist camp is that there might be spammers.
Open it up, we can compete.

Bob Hawkes · May 20, 2018

dtagr said:
The only reasoning I have read from the protectionist camp is that there might be spammers.
Open it up, we can compete.

It is not a matter of competing with spammers, but rather currently those who own a .ca domain are governed by the Canadian anti-spam and do not call legislation. If anyone could register a .ca, you could have the Canadian market flooded from .ca domain name email from those exempt from the reach of such legislation. The high regard (numerous polls - see CIRA) Canadians hold .ca domain names would be seriously eroded, and the value of Canadian .ca domain names would, in my opinion, go down, not up.

Spamhaus data support this argument in my opinion. As of this morning, for .ca the rate of abuse among active sites is 0.3% (among the very lowest of the thousands of extensions), leading to a badness score of 0.02 (low is good!). For comparison, the open .com is 7.7% and a score of 1.01, and .net is 11.1% abuse among active sites and 1.12 score.

Why does someone want a .ca if they have no association with Canada? I think the market for the additional domains will be almost exclusively those with questionable or worse motives. Those with genuine associations, like internationals with a Canadian presence, can get a .ca under current regulations.

HotKey · May 20, 2018

dtagr said:
Honestly, you guys frustrate me to no end. What is the benefit of reducing potential customers from 7,000,000,000 to 35,000,000? Count the zeros. Please make the business case for eliminating your customer base.
The only reasoning I have read from the protectionist camp is that there might be spammers.
Open it up, we can compete.

The onus lies with validating a change in current structure, not the other way around, imo. There is no "reduction" of potential customers, because you can't have something you never had to begin with. In it's current state, there are plenty of .ca names available for investors to play with, and for endusers not to be cornered into making silly brand decisions.

Don't cheapen .ca by sharing it with the world, be proud of its exclusivity and that we aren't struggling against anonymous internationals with no understanding of the value of the .ca extension. The mindset that money/exposure/open market is everything means also you are giving something up, in this case it is our Canadian identity. Look there's nothing working with wanting to make more money, it can be a struggle with our extension, but what is wrong with that? Get creative, reach out more, we need more Canadians wanting quality names for their business, turning to investors who are willing to offer fair resale pricing, not to someone living halfway across the world holding a name demanding an exorbitant ransom fee.

I would suggest not to let our judgement be clouded by perceived $ signs. We must keep our eyes on the big picture. In the midst of all the changes happening in our country, .ca is steadfast and CIRA is about the only entity left that isn't selling out to an outside corp or minority interests.

Kate · May 20, 2018

MetBob said:
Why does someone want a .ca if they have no association with Canada? I think the market for the additional domains will be almost exclusively those with questionable or worse motives. Those with genuine associations, like internationals with a Canadian presence, can get a .ca under current regulations.

The most obvious example: a lot of US businesses have Canadian customers. It is a shame without that they cannot engage with their Canadian customers through .ca domains (to set up a localized version of their website) without legal presence in Canada. There is the TM route but still. Many small businesses don't have registered TMs at all and this is a hurdle.

I mean, we are just talking about strings here, it's not like we are surrendering sovereignty. Foreigners can buy property and assets in Canada, but they cannot buy domain names ?

Spam and abuse is not a valid concern. A lot of ccTLDs are unrestricted these days, and are quite trusted.

deez007 said:
A work around for the Canadian citizenship issue for the domains is to use a service like AramexGlobalShopper.com - It gives me an actual address in over 20 countries around the world

There is always a slight risk that Cira will flag you for 'random' verification, and require proof of bona fide residence or Canadian citizenship, a copy of your driving license. And then...

In fact, you can incorporate locally in order to invest in restricted ccTLDs. The company doesn't have to be trading. But it's not worth the hassle for a couple domains.

MasterOfMyDomains · May 20, 2018

https://cira.ca/canadian-presence-requirements-registrants ( not sure when last updated)

Canadian Presence Requirements For Registrants
Version 1.3
1. Overview. After public consultation, CIRA has determined that the .ca domain space should be developed as a key public resource for the social and economic development of all Canadians. Accordingly, persons who wish to register a .ca domain name or sub-domain name on and after November 8, 2000 must meet certain Canadian Presence Requirements.

While the Canadian Presence Requirements for Registrants set out below still require a connection to Canada, they will enable a much broader group of persons to register a .ca domain name than under the rules of the University of British Columbia (UBC) registry.

Existing Registrants under the UBC system will not have to meet these Canadian presence requirements when they apply to re-register with CIRA a domain name that is the subject of an existing registration. CIRA hopes this will make it easier for existing registrants of the registry operated by UBC when they apply to CIRA for a new registration.

CIRA is committed to reviewing these Canadian Presence Requirements from time to time in order to ensure they remain in the best interests of Canadians and the .ca registry.

2. Canadian Presence Requirements. On and after November 8, 2000 only the following individuals and entities will be permitted to apply to CIRA (through a CIRA certified registrar) for the registration of, and to hold and maintain the registration of, a .ca domain name:

Canadian citizen. A Canadian citizen of the age of majority under the laws of the province or territory in Canada in which he or she resides or last resided;
Permanent resident. A permanent resident as defined in the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, (Canada) S.C. 2001, c. 27, as amended from time to time, who is ordinarily resident in Canada (as defined below) and of the age of majority under the laws of the province or territory in Canada in which he or she resides or last resided;(amended June 5, 2003)
Legal representative. An executor, administrator or other legal representative of a Person listed in paragraph (a) and (b) above;
Corporation. A corporation under the laws of Canada or any province or territory of Canada;
Trust. A trust established and subsisting under the laws of a province or territory of Canada, more than 66.6% of whose trustees meet one of the conditions set out in paragraphs (a) to (d) above;
Partnership. A partnership, more than 66.6% of whose partners meet one of the conditions set out in paragraphs (a) to (e) above, which is registered as a partnership under the laws of any province or territory of Canada;
Association. An unincorporated organization, association or club:

(i) at least 80% of whose members: (A) are ordinarily resident in Canada (if such members are individuals); or (B) meet one of the conditions set out in paragraphs (a) to (f) above (if such members are not individuals); and

(ii) at least 80% of whose directors, officers, employees, managers, administrators or other representatives are ordinarily resident in Canada;
Trade union. A trade union which is recognized by a labour board under the laws of Canada or any province or territory of Canada and which has its head office in Canada;
Political party. A political party registered under a relevant electoral law of Canada or any province or territory of Canada;
Educational institution. Any of the following:

(i) a university or college which is located in Canada and which is authorized or recognized as a university or college under an Act of the legislature of a province or territory of Canada; or

a college, post-secondary school, vocational school, secondary school, pre-school or other school or educational institution which is located in Canada and which is recognized by the educational authorities of a province or territory of Canada or licensed under or maintained by an Act of Parliament of Canada or of the legislature of a province or territory of Canada;
Library, Archive or Museum. An institution, whether or not incorporated, that:

(i) is located in Canada; and

(ii) is not established or conducted for profit or does not form part of, or is not administered or directly or indirectly controlled by, a body that is established or conducted for profit, in which is held and maintained a collection of documents and other materials that is open to the public or to researchers;
Hospital. A hospital which is located in Canada and which is licensed, authorized or approved to operate as a hospital under an Act of the legislature of a province or territory of Canada;
Her Majesty the Queen. Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second and her successors;
Indian band. Any Indian band as defined in the Indian Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. I-5, as amended from time to time, and any group of Indian bands;
Aboriginal Peoples. Any Inuit, First Nation, Metis or other people indigenous to Canada, any individual belonging to any Inuit, First Nation, Metis or other people indigenous to Canada and any collectivity of such Aboriginal peoples;
Government. Her Majesty the Queen in right of Canada, a province or a territory; an agent of Her Majesty the Queen in right of Canada, of a province or of a territory; a federal, provincial or territorial Crown corporation, government agency or government entity; or a regional, municipal or local area government;
Trade-mark registered in Canada. A Person which does not meet any of the foregoing conditions, but which is the owner of a trade-mark which is the subject of a registration under the Trade-marks Act (Canada) R.S.C. 1985, c.T-13 as amended from time to time, but in this case such permission is limited to an application to register a .ca domain name consisting of or including the exact word component of that registered trade-mark; or
Official marks. A Person which does not meet any of the foregoing conditions, but which is a Person intended to be protected by Subsection 9(1) of the TradeMarks Act (Canada) at whose request the Registrar of Trade-marks has published notice of adoption of any badge, crest, emblem, official mark or other mark pursuant to Subsection 9(1), but in this case such permission is limited to an application to register a .ca domain name consisting of or including the exact word component of such badge, crest, emblem, official mark or other mark in respect of which such Person requested publications.

3. For the purposes of this policy:

Notwithstanding paragraph 1 above, each registrant of a .ca domain name or subdomain name registration which is registered in the .ca registry operated by UBC prior to November 8, 2000 shall be deemed to satisfy the Canadian presence requirements described in paragraph 1 above with respect only to an application by such registrant to CIRA to register such .ca domain name or sub-domain name.

“ordinarily resident in Canada” means an individual who resides in Canada for more than 183 days in the twelve month period immediately preceding the date of the applicable application for registration of the .ca domain name or sub-domain name and in each twelve month period thereafter for the duration of the domain name registration; and
“Person” includes an individual, a corporation, a partnership, a trust, an unincorporated organization, association or club, the government of a country or any political subdivision thereof, or any agency or department of any such government, and the executors, administrators or other legal representatives of an individual in such capacity, a “person” as defined in the Trade-marks Act (Canada) and a Person intended to be protected by Subsection 9(1) of the Trademarks Act (Canada).

4. Notwithstanding paragraph 1 above, each registrant of a .ca domain name or subdomain name registration which is registered in the .ca registry operated by UBC prior to November 8, 2000 shall be deemed to satisfy the Canadian presence requirements described in paragraph 1 above with respect only to an application by such registrant to CIRA to register such .ca domain name or sub-domain name.

Bob Hawkes · May 20, 2018

Kate said:
The most obvious example: a lot of US businesses have Canadian customers. It is a shame without that they cannot engage with their Canadian customers through .ca domains (to set up a localized version of their website) without legal presence in Canada. There is the TM route but still. Many small businesses don't have registered TMs at all and this is a hurdle.

It seems to me that all larger companies with significant Canadian clients do usually set up a Canadian presence and have no problem registering a .ca.

With respect to smaller companies, while I see your point to some degree, when I see a .ca on a small company it tells me that it is Canadian, so if I prefer, for whatever reason, to be dealing with a Canadian company I can see that immediately.

While accepting that there are arguments in favour of making it open (as more and more countries seem to be doing), I feel the misuse by those not governed by Canadian laws is a huge potential problem, as noted in my OP.

There is a second strong argument in my opinion. Those who own one (or more) .ca domain names are eligible to without cost become CIRA members (after confirmation of identity). I worry about a system where those without Canadian presence could potentially control future of CIRA (perhaps that is not true, or would not be with tightening of rules of membership).

I am not quite convinced what it is that we are trying to fix. The .ca growth rate was among the highest of the major 20 TLDs in the recent report, CIRA have a very democratic system, respect of .ca is high among Canadians, the abuse rate is among the very lowest of all the TLDs in the world. What exactly is the problem?

deez007 · May 20, 2018

Kate said:
The most obvious example: a lot of US businesses have Canadian customers. It is a shame without that they cannot engage with their Canadian customers through .ca domains (to set up a localized version of their website) without legal presence in Canada. There is the TM route but still. Many small businesses don't have registered TMs at all and this is a hurdle.

I mean, we are just talking about strings here, it's not like we are surrendering sovereignty. Foreigners can buy property and assets in Canada, but they cannot buy domain names ?

Spam and abuse is not a valid concern. A lot of ccTLDs are unrestricted these days, and are quite trusted.

There is always a slight risk that Cira will flag you for 'random' verification, and require proof of bona fide residence or Canadian citizenship, a copy of your driving license. And then...

In fact, you can incorporate locally in order to invest in restricted ccTLDs. The company doesn't have to be trading. But it's not worth the hassle for a couple domains.

On the contrary, from my understanding of .ca legislation. One would actually be acting fully within their legal right to take ownership of a .ca domain should they have an official .ca addresss. Does this mean they need to have an active .ca business, nope!. As with many other countries, this is not a pre-requisite, so registering a .ca under the same parameters I suggested.....is perfectly legal.

Disclainer: I do not, under any circumstances claim to know everything there is to know about domaining - But I would be very cautious of anyone who claims to know otherwise.

Kate · May 20, 2018

MetBob said:
I am not quite convinced what it is that we are trying to fix. The .ca growth rate was among the highest of the major 20 TLDs in the recent report, CIRA have a very democratic system, respect of .ca is high among Canadians, the abuse rate is among the very lowest of all the TLDs in the world. What exactly is the problem?

I don't think there is such a big problem, but underutilization of a great ccTLD.
However, the idea that relaxing requirements and making .ca available to non-Canadians would increase abuse doesn't seem to hold water. I'm not sure why this would be a concern in .ca when it isn't in other ccTLDs.

deez007 said:
On the contrary, from my understanding of .ca legislation. One would actually be acting fully within their legal right to take ownership of a .ca domain should they have an official .ca addresss.

You have an address is Canada so what, you are not a resident. I assume you are not a Canadian expat either.
@MasterOfMyDomains posted the eligibility requirements above. Where do you think you fit in exactly ?

dtagr · May 20, 2018

MetBob said:
If anyone could register a .ca, you could have the Canadian market flooded from .ca domain name email from those exempt from the reach of such legislation. The high regard (numerous polls - see CIRA) Canadians hold .ca domain names would be seriously eroded, and the value of Canadian .ca domain names would, in my opinion, go down, not up.

Spamhaus data support this argument in my opinion. As of this morning, for .ca the rate of abuse among active sites is 0.3% (among the very lowest of the thousands of extensions), leading to a badness score of 0.02 (low is good!). For comparison, the open .com is 7.7% and a score of 1.01, and .net is 11.1% abuse among active sites and 1.12 score.

Why does someone want a .ca if they have no association with Canada? .

I don't care if I get spammed. In a connected world spam is a part of life.I have half a dozen public emails out there and honestly it's not that bad. The stuff that does come in is usually .com,.net.info sometimes a cctld. The solution to that is to raise registration and renewal at the registry. $20 reg and $15 renewal would be a deterrent to someone who is trying to get your money instead of spending their own. And not burdensome if you are buying quality names.

I suppose technically I've sent a lot of spam. Do I specifically have a CEO's permission to email or call them about a domain name that they never heard of from a guy they never heard of? No I don't. I've been called many names like greedy a***ole and domain name scammer, but never spammer.

Increasing your potential customer base by 200% erodes the value of an asset how?

IMO the reason the extension trades at a steep discount is because Canadian businesses don't have to compete for assets. Anybody besides me get a little lazy when my fridge is well stocked?

dtagr · May 20, 2018

The onus lies with validating a change in current structure, not the other way around, imo. There is no "reduction" of potential customers, because you can't have something you never had to begin with.

Valid point.

The mindset that money/exposure/open market is everything means also you are giving something up, in this case it is our Canadian identity.

I can't disagree with this statement more strongly. Our identity is closed mindedness. In this industry the sign on the door says "Closed".

Look there's nothing working with wanting to make more money, it can be a struggle with our extension, but what is wrong with that? Get creative, reach out more, we need more Canadians wanting quality names for their business, turning to investors who are willing to offer fair resale pricing, not to someone living halfway across the world holding a name demanding an exorbitant ransom fee.

This implies that Canadians are somehow purveyors of all that is fair and reasonable and the rest of the world is dirty and sleazy and greedy and dangerous and not to be trusted. This is the textbook definition of xenophobia. This is more about needing to be protected from the big bad world outside the door. It is a very Canadian mindset.

I'm not unhappy with my position in .ca, I make enough sales to cover my renewals and go out for dinner once in a while. The extension could be so much more.

Ninth largest economy in the world shutting the doors to outsiders while pursuing free trade agreements with the USA,Asia,Europe, no restrictions on foreign real estate purchases etc. This protectionism is an anachronism and it hurts us all.

dtagr · May 20, 2018

As an aside, I do appreciate the polite discourse. No flaming, no name-calling etc. Just people who disagree - discussing, debating, convincing (or not). That is truly Canadian and it is appreciated.

Bob Hawkes · May 21, 2018

Let me first echo @dtgar comment re the level and tone of the discourse... disagree without being unpleasant. The best of NPs.

Re:

dtagr said:
Ninth largest economy in the world shutting the doors to outsiders while pursuing free trade agreements with the USA,Asia,Europe, no restrictions on foreign real estate purchases etc. This protectionism is an anachronism and it hurts us all.

I don't regard it as shutting out the world, or protectionist, but rather staying true to the original intention of the country code designations. The idea was to use them to indicate sites from a country. Yes, at first a few countries sold their rights to their cc, now others are making their extension open, but really the countries that are staying true to the original are just following the original plan. Other countries have their own cc, or one of more than a thousand other extensions.

.ca was supposed to mean Canadian just like each other country code was supposed to mean that country.

BTW does someone know a place that lists which country codes are open and which are not, and when those that are now open changed?

Bob Hawkes · May 21, 2018

ps Does CIRA have a presence on NPs and monitor this thread? I would really welcome their thoughts about the Canadian presence requirements, and any changes that are or have been considered.

briguy · May 21, 2018

MetBob said:
ps Does CIRA have a presence on NPs and monitor this thread? I would really welcome their thoughts about the Canadian presence requirements, and any changes that are or have been considered.

Did a fast check (not cheque lol) and there seems to be none..
https://www.namepros.com/members/?type=reps

dtagr · May 21, 2018

MetBob said:
Let me first echo @dtgar comment re the level and tone of the discourse... disagree without being unpleasant. The best of NPs.

Re:

I don't regard it as shutting out the world, or protectionist, but rather staying true to the original intention of the country code designations. The idea was to use them to indicate sites from a country. Yes, at first a few countries sold their rights to their cc, now others are making their extension open, but really the countries that are staying true to the original are just following the original plan. Other countries have their own cc, or one of more than a thousand other extensions.

.ca was supposed to mean Canadian just like each other country code was supposed to mean that country.

BTW does someone know a place that lists which country codes are open and which are not, and when those that are now open changed?

I think you are correct about the original intention, however the world and the internet has changed. I think the extension needs to change so that rather than denoting that the company/organization is from Canada it should be allowed to be elsewhere and serve the Canadian market.

I can do this now at Amazon. I can setup my store and sell into the USA,Mexico,UK,Europe,China. I don't need any presence in those locations. Companies from those locations can also sell into Canada through the Amazon marketplace as long as they satisfy Amazon's requirements. But they can't buy a .ca and brand themselves as a provider of goods or services in Canada.

As a result of Amazon's penetration into Canada we are all able to now purchase products that we had never seen 10 years ago, and products that we knew about can now be had for ridiculously lower prices than we ever thought possible. This is business opportunity.

A chocolatier from Belgium can sell us chocolate through Amazon without setting foot in Canada. But that same chocolatier can't set up a website at "MagnifiqueChocolat".ca, build a website with Canadian prices, spend money building their .ca brand and ship it when I click it. Why? What purpose does that serve? That company is not going to get significant market penetration and will always be under the Amazon umbrella.

We lose out on business opportunities, consumers lose out on new products and services.

Bob Hawkes · May 21, 2018

MetBob said:
BTW does someone know a place that lists which country codes are open and which are not, and when those that are now open changed?

To answer my own question, although you have to scroll through the list, I discovered that the ICANN Wiki makes it easy to see which have presence requirements and which don't. Link below.

https://icannwiki.org/Country_code_top-level_domain

Kate · May 21, 2018

Note that the list is incomplete and outdated. Most of the stronger ccTLDs are open though.
Many European extensions are unrestricted or available EU-/EEA-wide.
Wikipedia is a more complete source, there are individual entries for each ccTLD, but even Wikipedia is not always up to date. Check the entry in English, then the entry in the language of the target country. For details, the registry is the authoritative source.

Bob Hawkes · May 21, 2018

I admit that my support for keeping .ca restricted to those with some kind of Canadian presence is based more on a view as a Canadian resident and consumer, than as a domain investor.

But even if we looked at it entirely as a domain investor, I am not convinced that opening of registrations in .ca will be good for sales. In the very short period, yes, it would be and there would be a spike in sales and increase in average price.

But in the longer run, I think the mindset that Canadian organizations and businesses have currently, that I must get a .ca, would gradually change when anyone anywhere can register one. As a result, I am not convinced that total interest in the domain name might actually drop. Currently there are more .ca registrations than 99% of the extensions, most of which are open.

Just a thought - I could be wrong. It would be interesting to look at the stats of some countries that switched from closed to open a number of years ago (which I have not done).

DomainRecap · May 21, 2018

The key element here is that if .CA fully opened up, then any Google local search advantage of using it would disappear and it would function as a gTLD. Right now, .CA sites get a preference for Canadians searching for products and services on Google, just as other restricted ccTLDs do in their geographic zone.

If that advantage disappears, it would definitely cause many Canadian companies to drop their .CA in favor of a .COM, etc.

I think we need to open up .CA registrations slightly, but only as far as other restricted ccTLDs have by allowing companies with actual "product/service business in Canada" to register a .CA (and put it to actual use), but not individuals, investors, domain holding co's. branding companies, etc.

Kate · May 21, 2018

MetBob said:
But in the longer run, I think the mindset that Canadian organizations and businesses have currently, that I must get a .ca, would gradually change when anyone anywhere can register one.

It is a valid concern, but not in mature extensions, because the TLD remains part of national identity. There is a strong bond between people and their national extension, regardless of the fact anybody can get one. For example .co.uk which is the epitome of Britishness has always been open. .de is open and only requires a local admin contact for legal service, that many registrars provide. The open registration model doesn't devalue them.

I'm speaking very much from a European perspective, where many extensions are unrestricted or semi-open (and no, Google does not treat them as gTLDs). Foreign ownership rates are often >20%, but it's very often registrants from the neighboring countries. But it doesn't change the way they are perceived by locals.

On the other hand I would be more concerned with extensions like .co or .me that are heavily marketed to foreigners, and clearly diluted.

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