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Penalized for Due Diligence

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I just got a 7 day suspension of my account at flippa under the claim of "backing out of a sale" that I didn't back out of. The terms agreed on in negotiations were clear that I would not make payment until the seller made it possible for me to verify ownership. The whois records are blank other than email. I want to have an address or phone number to call at minimum.
They suspended my account, issued a refund for commission and gave the seller free relisting for the site in question.
Ownership of any domain is the most important thing in my opinion to verify. Anyone could be listed as the email contact, how can a company say that you are responsible and expected to perform your own due diligence and turn around and chastise you for doing it?
So, until they get back to me on my appeal, I'm off flippa. When I get back on I'm probably paying everyone up and closing my account there.
This is one of the most ridiculous reasons I've heard for account restrictions. What say you?
Here's a screenshot of the whois and suspension
Screenshot-2018-4-24 Activity Overview Flippa.png
Screenshot_20180424-123539.png
Screenshot_20180424-123539.png
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
I am definitely not a fan now, I really was.. I have bought Several domains from there since this particular sale took place... the final thing in negotiations was that I would pay after the whois was updated, as I have said... Where I screwed up is I should not have allowed it to go into the sales completion area until after the seller updated the records. It is being made to look like I have added additional terms, when in fact the terms were agreed upon before the sale but as the last step when I submitted the counter offer.. That is where I screwed up... I shouldn't have submitted the counter offer. I should have made him submit the offer back to me...

I also think that's where the bone of contention lies; you shouldn't have gone to the final stage without the whois visibility enabled. Because at this point (payment), it is seen as though all terms have been satisfactorily met.

Anyway, you can always try again since it's being relisted. This time, ensure that all agreements have been met before moving to the sales completion stage.
 
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Flippa verifies domain name ownership before it's listed on their marketplace. And if you buy using Flippa escrow why would you bother if it's the domain owner or it guy? after Flippa escrow ends how he is going to get the domain back? by reporting lost/stolen? if that's what you are worrying then I think it's very unlikely a registrar giving a domain back without doing proper due diligence if it's truly stolen or not. And if that's what everybody was worried then nobody would use Flippa or Flippa escrow.
 
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Flippa verifies domain name ownership before it's listed on their marketplace. And if you buy using Flippa escrow why would you bother if it's the domain owner or it guy? after Flippa escrow ends how he is going to get the domain back? by reporting lost/stolen? if that's what you are worrying then I think it's very unlikely a registrar giving a domain back without doing proper due diligence if it's truly stolen or not. And if that's what everybody was worried then nobody would use Flippa or Flippa escrow.
After the escrow service (in case you didn't know, isn't Flippa it's a third party) transfers money to the seller, that is the end of that money. The registrar would give return the domain to the rightful owner, in the situation I was describing. If their I.T. guy, or web developer was given access to the owners account for actual legitimate purposes, but now they don't work there, or they have decided to just be a jerk, and they change the registrant information at the registrar.They have fooled the system now.. they are able to do whatever they want because the email they control is the email that everything goes to. until the real owner discovers that has happened they can list it for sale all over the internet and most places are going to approve it because they use an automated system that does not verify the last sale. They send an automated email to the admin email address with a link to click that says whoever is clicking that link confirming ownership is the same person that is in control of that email... That isn't verification of anything other than an email address. That cannot and should not be suffice for anyone to claim ownership verification.
It has happened---- The Registrar did in fact return the domain to the registrant----
And James Booth was out $26,000 that he deposited in an escrow account..

So, yes it can happen, It has happened, and I can guarantee you that It will happen again. I intend to make it as difficult as possible for it to happen to me. I don't care if it is $2 or $200,000 I won't deposit the money until I have checked out what I feel I need to.
 
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I'm not a big fan of Flippa either and I surely understand your desire to complete due diligence but,

To list any goods on Flippa including domains the seller has to prove they are the owner and in control of the domain. Our pre listing verification methods can only be carried out by the owner of the domain/websites etc.

As per Flippa materials we advise to perform due diligence prior to placing bids as they are binding as per our ToS that you accept when placing those bids.

All you need to know from Flippa's perspective is written above. Flippa did the required due diligence for you, you agreed to a transaction and then decided to add a term to the contract after you agreed to a sale. If you expected the seller to change the whois after you agreed to the sale, it was you who erred and thus broke the contract by not submitting payment.

Your ire should actually be directed to the domain seller, not Flippa, for not doing what they said, they would do, during your negotiations. But somewhere along the line, you agreed to a purchase using Flippa's terms of service and thus broke them by not submitting payment, so I'm sorry to say, this is on you, and perhaps the domain seller, but not Flippa! You gave them no choice but to suspend your account!
 
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I'm not a big fan of Flippa either and I surely understand your desire to complete due diligence but,



All you need to know from Flippa's perspective is written above. Flippa did the required due diligence for you, you agreed to a transaction and then decided to add a term to the contract after you agreed to a sale. If you expected the seller to change the whois after you agreed to the sale, it was you who erred and thus broke the contract by not submitting payment.

Your ire should actually be directed to the domain seller, not Flippa, for not doing what they said, they would do, during your negotiations. But somewhere along the line, you agreed to a purchase using Flippa's terms of service and thus broke them by not submitting payment, so I'm sorry to say, this is on you, and perhaps the domain seller, but not Flippa! You gave them no choice but to suspend your account!

I have admitted that I was at fault:
I am definitely not a fan now, I really was.. I have bought Several domains from there since this particular sale took place... the final thing in negotiations was that I would pay after the whois was updated, as I have said... Where I screwed up is I should not have allowed it to go into the sales completion area until after the seller updated the records. It is being made to look like I have added additional terms, when in fact the terms were agreed upon before the sale but as the last step when I submitted the counter offer.. That is where I screwed up... I shouldn't have submitted the counter offer. I should have made him submit the offer back to me...

I will own it where I screwed up, I no longer have a problem with the suspension. It's valid, I violated the ToS. Not intentionally albeit, but I did none the less.
I take issue with Flippa at this point because they say one thing and do another. Their own ToS says this:
flippa ToS 7.png

but yet, they cancelled an agreement on my behalf.
Not once did I ever say I wanted to cancel the transaction, I simply wanted the terms discussed in negotiations adhered to.
How can an entity be both not part of a transaction other than being a platform for meeting, and also be the arbitrator for a dispute which by the way I never noticed anything relating to Disputes mentioned one single time in the entire ToS. I may be wrong, and I have been before and likely will be again, But, if they reference their ToS in relation to an infraction, shouldn't the ToS at least make mention of what they are referencing? Again, I didn't see anything in the ToS, that shouldn't be thought to be me saying There isn't anything. I may have looked over it. In any case, if an agreement is "binding and irrevocable" how is it that they become a de facto arbirtrator that has the right to Revoke said agreement? Further, If they claim that they are merely providing the software and website for the buyer and seller to conduct their own auction or classifieds; how is it possible for them to switch standpoints and act as an arbitrator?
I take issue with that.
Basically I see it like this, if you say you aren't part of my agreement, or business, when it comes time that someone doesn't like how things are going (yes including myself) you shouldn't put yourself into my business. If your own policy says you aren't involved, you should stay neutral, and not involved.
An entity with a vested interest in the transaction cannot be an impartial arbitrator. They shouldn't act as one. By telling the seller that he no longer had to sell to me, and could sell to someone else, they gave him permission to break an agreement that they say is irrevocable and legally binding. It's illogical how can an entity be both a non participant and a participant at the same time? That is where my issue lies as of now.... the suspension, is justified. The company telling me that they have the right to break a legally binding and irrevocable agreement, that is too contradictory for me to understand.
 
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And also, by them saying the statements in that same section, doesn't that mean that they should not be considered an ownership verification service? They are acting as one if they are telling me that I should accept that they verified ownership. I have listed on there, I literally clicked a link in an email... anyone could hack the registrar and change the admin email address. I'm just trying to make the point that if they say that they are only a meetingplace, they should stick to what they say and not be making decisions on these issues. They should defer it to the legal system, which they do later. Basically, they only want to honor their ToS when it is beneficial to them, when it isn't they throw statements referring to the ToS around assuming that you didn't read it and that you don't know what is in it. Hoping you will take their word as final. Their word and every decision they make is nullified by the statements in part 7 of the ToS in my opinion. They can't have a decision making ability in something that they supposedly have no part in.
 
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The company telling me that they have the right to break a legally binding and irrevocable agreement, that is too contradictory for me to understand.
You agree to your suspension part. Allow me to explain why they suspended.

When your counter offer.got accepted by the seller you got into a legally binding agreement to buy the domain irrespective of your will to do or not do due diligence.

The seller gets the option to raise a dispute against you after 48 hours of your non-payment. So flippa simply acted upon the dispute that the seller raised. They did not by their own will broke the agreement of the sale.

So in short, your issue has to be with the seller who did not verify his ownership as per your demand and straight away raised a dispute.

In all scenarios, Flippa stood clean and has just done what was correct as per your procedure.

It's unfortunate that you made a counter offer without first letting the seller completing your condition to verify his ownership.

Hope that helps.
 
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When you placed your initial bids you went through steps where you acknowledged you had done due diligence, were aware of what was being sold and would honor those bids.
Actually this makes perfect sense to me. Why didn't you do your DD before the bid?
 
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You agree to your suspension part. Allow me to explain why they suspended.

When your counter offer.got accepted by the seller you got into a legally binding agreement to buy the domain irrespective of your will to do or not do due diligence.

The seller gets the option to raise a dispute against you after 48 hours of your non-payment. So flippa simply acted upon the dispute that the seller raised. They did not by their own will broke the agreement of the sale.

So in short, your issue has to be with the seller who did not verify his ownership as per your demand and straight away raised a dispute.

In all scenarios, Flippa stood clean and has just done what was correct as per your procedure.

It's unfortunate that you made a counter offer without first letting the seller completing your condition to verify his ownership.

Hope that helps.
It really doesn't... 2 things, I initiated the dispute, I am not going to allow that to be blamed on him. It's my own fault in every way. But, Flippa in part 7 of their ToS makes it pretty clear that when it comes to transactions, they are to be viewed as nothing more than a place to meet.... basically saying you can't blame the store that you meet at to sell your domain.... where the issue I have with them lies is that:
By them taking any actions to provide any more service than that of a meeting point, at that point they were in breach of their own ToS. By saying that I should accept their verification which is essentially what was said, they are at that point acting outside of the scope of a meeting place. That is my issue.
But, I do have to give it to their lawyers.. Section 14... that is smooth.... LOL
Basically there is the typical ToS indemnification clause...
Screenshot-2018-4-24 Flippa Terms and Conditions Flippa(1).png

where they say
"hey, just to let you know, in the event that we violate our own rules.... even if it cost you millions of dollars because we told someone they no longer had to honor the agreement you two had at our meeting place. You can't hold us liable for lying to you, causing you damage to your business, or literally anything else that we do."
 
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Actually this makes perfect sense to me. Why didn't you do your DD before the bid?

It wasn't intentional, this was a post auction negotiation, and my first transaction on flippa. I have only been using the site for maybe 2 weeks if even that long... so cut me some slack, the "bid" being in a Post Auction Negotiation was an offer to the seller... further, this being my first transaction, I had no idea about private messaging.. to this day the only place I have talked to a seller about the auction on the site is in the sale completion area... after this particular experience I only bid what I can trust immediately. Also, this particular seller had to accept my offer... wouldn't that make you think that if you place terms with an offer saying that you will pay me after I show you records, and send that offer to me... I then accept your offer... wouldn't you be under the impression that I have accepted your terms and that I should show you the records before you pay me? Thats the type of situation we are talking about here... I had done everything I could do as my D.D. but verify the records... thus, I placed my offer, what I thought was contingent upon the seller completing his side of the agreement. what I am learning is that he had no obligation to commit after accepting my offer but I had all of the obligation to commit....
 
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What stops Flippa from helping the transaction to be completed? What stops Flippa from asking the seller to update the whois info? Why can't the buyer simply update the whois info? You mean people still totally trust Marketplaces these days with 'domain theft' headlines we read about? I would do what the buyer has done and save myself possible heartache and money loss.
 
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and then there is this....

unssus.png


Just long enough for me to miss bids on how many auctions @DomainNerdz ? But, they granted me back my account... Now, to let all bids run through and I can cancel after squaring up.

They got too much in my business for a business that says they aren't in that type of business..
 
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Hey Justin, glad they reinstated you man. Sucks that you had to go through all that drama. I totally would've vouched for you. You've always paid immediately on all the auctions you've won of mine.
 
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or at least had it arranged beforehand.. oh well... that 12-15% they miss off of my 20-50 a week is a drop in the bucket to them.
 
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Flippa is such a mess. Absolute disaster, time and time again.

I won a domain from one of their auctions recently, the seller disappeared, they told me that if he decided to relist the name, I was welcome to bid again.

It was at least the second time he'd backed out of a sale like that, and Flippa is going out of their way to ensure this keeps happening.

What did Flippa do?

They scrubbed the 1st instance of negative feedback from the guy's profile where another buyer had the same issue, and they wouldn't even allow me to leave feedback about my own experience with the seller, since Flippa just cancelled the sale, so it disappears like it never happened.

The part that really got me was how they said I could bid again if he relisted it. So not only did they have someone who had backed out of 2 sales as the seller recently, but they're going to allow this person to CONTINUE using their platform, WITH the same domain name again.

Flippa deserves every bad review they get, they're doing it to themselves.
 
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Wouldn't this transaction be completed using Flippa Escrow? If so, why wouldn't you honor your agreement? It sounds like there is more to this story than meets the eye?
@FlippaDomains
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Yes I was thinking the same thing.
 
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This is something that we'll be facing much more often once the dreaded GDPR stunts the public WHOIS information.
 
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I'm curious how much dollars are you risking with following through?
 
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