question URDP? Give up domains?

WhoaDomain.com · Mar 14, 2018

Hello guys,

Without saying too much.

The largest USA provider of voice,cable,and internet company name starting with V.

Reached out to me couple of days ago.

Because I registered their TM in .com domains.

Facts.

1.These particular domains have one drop each( I didn't check before regging). And we're owned for 2 years each a piece.
2. This "mark" I've seen is registered with 40-50 other domains by other registrants other than V. Some are exact matches in other exotic extensions like .kr or .PL etc etc.
3. These other domains have been registered years ago and are still owned by current registrant. How?
4. If you have more than one domain containing the TM are you more exposed to losing a case ?

Some are even owned by the likes of Buydomains.com and DomainMarket.com (Mike Mann)

Companies with ,I assume, big budgets and big time lawyers on retainer.

Me? No.

I really don't understand how these other domains get to keep their domains while I'm sent pretty scary emails with "high pressure" tactics with deadlines to simply hand over my domains.

Two laws were mentioned. Lanham act and Anticybersquatting Consumer Protection Act.

Also they mention the mere "act of registering TM domains is automatically in bad faith".

Then of course they point out that have been awarded millions in such cases against TM offenders. (Scare tactic)

In which case I responded since they mentioned their big money awards for each case why hasn't V gone after and won cases for all the other 30-40 domains containing V's TM? Surely the incentive is there if they are so confident in winning such cases which end in big money awards.

They ignored responding to the question. Saying these are questions best asked of my own legal counsel.

See with obvious black and white straight forward laws like the lanham act or ACPA how the hell do the current domain owners of domains containing V's TM still own their domains? Some were since 2008.

My domains are currently pointed to the default landing page for the registrar. No pay per click ads.

I will say this, V company has won big cases in the millions.

It's really an easy way for these companies to get domains for nothing. Just send threats and mentioned big money awards.

As a domainer is it stupid to assume you can just email V and tell them to do what they need to do. And tell them if they proceed with a case that I officially state via email I would gladly surrender the domains without contest immediate but not before they actually file a case.

It's almost like playing chicken with a big 50 ton semi truck on the highway.

The threat is only really valid if they proceed. Although companies like this have unlimited resources so they can just proceed with $3000-$5000 costing court cases just to get the domains they want and for PR purposes add to their roster of won cases. So win win for them.

But then again there are those 40-50 domains that are way more "offending" to their trademark than mine is.

I don't feel safe at all. Pretty scary. I feel like just surrending these domains and move on. That's what Captain obvious would say. He would also say never reg TM domains.

Is it enough or isn't it understood by TM lawyers that in court if it is pointed out that there are 40-50 other domains containing their mark that have been registered for 5-10 years prior to mine ever being registered that are owned by other domainers and not V that this is enough to throw out a case?

Still I feel a company with unlimited resources and throw it's weigh around and do whatever it wants.

I'm sure some of the owners of the other offending "V" domains are not rich. Just like me. Yet they are holding their domains for years in some cases.

I'm sure V has had their TM for years too.

Also what about domain owners from China ? I see alot with domains with V's mark owned by Chinese and most with privacy . Does this provide them some protection? I doubt it.

And talk about blatant. The domains owned by buydomains and domainmarket have salespages with buy now buttons. If that's not blatant I don't know what is.

I even called buydomains about their domain they owned containing V's TM and ask how they can own it.

They said their lawyers advise them on what domains they can invest in that does not leave them exposed to lawsuit.

If that's not a good enough confidence builder I don't know what is?

Or would that be stupid to assume that since buydomains lawyers gave them a greenlight then my domains should be in the clear?

I have never reached out to this V company. Or have any content related to V's goods and services. Not even a sales lander.

Part of me feels it's really up to the big V to choose to file a case or not.

It's not fair. If you give in to fear you give up domains but you never know if they would have really proceeded with a case.

But if you don't and they do proceed you have to pay big money.

Couldn't I just say " go ahead file a case" and verbally tell them via email that if they do I'll just surrender the domains without a fight.

If a court reads this email. Would that show I'm willing to comply and therefore won't award V big money just the domains?

Or is it up to V to request to be paid to cover their legal fees?

Would the court grant them this request?(Probably right?)

I can see how legal counsel of V would be inclined to proceed since I'd be liable for paying the fees. Win win for lawyers.

The legal counsel for V made sure to point out that they ......

"aggressively go after TM offenders who register V's TM"

Which is a bit of a lie since a quick check via whois I find 30-40 domains that I know of that have been registered for years by other domainers.

How can they say they aggressively go after TM offenders yet these other domains exist not owned by V?

Can TM holders "cherry pick" which TM offending domains they choose to go after? And leave the rest alone? Do courts pay attention to this and consider it wrong and grounds to throw out such cases?

I can understand if a domain is being used to trick people or defame the TM holder or benefit from the popularity of a mark by putting ads.

But blank or registrar landing pages? Do courts take this into consideration? Could I still lose?

It goes without saying I will tread lightly.

If you want to know more about my domains and V's domains owned by "not V".

PM me.

Sigh******....... I don't need this headache in my life.

PS. I'll only discuss the details with people I've talked to before via PM. ( You know who you are)

Sorry I suspect V's legal counsel is probably on here reading this. So only people I know pm me. Thanks.

@jberryhill

DNWon · Mar 14, 2018

I'm surprised at you. You've been here long enough to know better than to register those type names. It doesn't matter one iota that others have done the same, have more of their trademarks in their portfolio or for longer. You won the UDRP lottery. So now, you can answer the UDRP complaint, which I don't recommend in this case. You can ignore the complaint, in which case you'll most likely lose anyway, and perhaps be rewarded with follow up litigation, or you can turn the names over to Big V before the UDRP and hope it just all goes away. I would take option 3, that's what I would do!

MapleDots · Mar 14, 2018

How much can you sell the domains for.... realistically?

Have you had any inquiries?

Now make your decision.... easy...

Its all about costs and measures

BaileyUK · Mar 14, 2018

Blimey - how old are you ??. I thought we've seen the back of these type of presentations and arguments years ago. Putting a flimsy defence together doesn't make it right or defensible. Why on earth did you register them in the first place ? You don't seem to want to touch on that question in your elongated explanation.

if there's similar out there for sale - more fool them, I doubt anybody would buy unless your blurring your justifications, You must have money burning holes in you pocket

tonyk2000 · Mar 14, 2018

It is likely the lawyers of this provider are set to submit UDRPs on behalf of their client, and they'll win these UDRPs. TM owner is not necessary aware that these domains do exists. This is where the related $$$ are - in lawyers pocket who were hired to protect TM. Not sure what might be the reason of registering these domain(s), as nobody including tm owners will pay anything close to aftermarket price for them. Parking?

In any case, just to save time, you might consider simply deleting the domains now. Whois will show Redemption Period status then, regardless of expiration dates, and they will likely end up in hugedomains portfolio after the drop. Depending on registrar, there may be built-in domain deletion functionality already, or a cust. service will do this by request. This way you'll at least not see your name or company in a public udrp history.

Tia Wood · Mar 14, 2018

Avtar629 said:
Because I registered their TM in .com domains.

...........

...........

"Give up domains?"

I don't know. How much money do you want to waste? Seems like the answer is pretty obvious.

Stop doing that and move on to better domains.

And tagging Mr. Berryhill...he'll probably just laugh in your face. Or behind the computer.

dordomai · Mar 14, 2018

i think that TM holder sued a few cybersquatters for millions and won of course. what was the reason for registering? others doing the same?

do you want a legal battle with a large corporation? Even if you win you will lose a lot of money.

i do not know why you are doing this. you have a history of registering worthless TM domains and trying to justify keeping them. Why? Do you hope one day they will make you a huge offer instead of an UDRP?

if you do not learn from this you will be rewarded sooner or later but not the way you had hoped.

cybersquatting is not a legal activity and this does not look like an innocent mistake.

anantj · Mar 14, 2018

Why did you register domains with potential trademarks issues? What did you hope to achieve? Presumably, you'd heard of Verizon and knew that there was a potential trademark violation (based on your really really long diatribe) and yet you went ahead and registered them. Why?

BaileyUK · Mar 14, 2018

Scenario 1

lawyer 1, Hey, when did we bust those last loose- cannons on the internet

lawyer 2, about two years ago, By my recollection.

lawyer 1, ok we got a mug here and now, lets get those warnings hot again, remember like the last time ..We don't take any surrenders once we've pitched-up for battle

dordomai · Mar 14, 2018

I really don't understand how these other domains get to keep their domains while I'm sent pretty scary emails with "high pressure" tactics with deadlines to simply hand over my domains.

perhaps you were just unlucky, who knows.

Two laws were mentioned. Lanham act and Anticybersquatting Consumer Protection Act.

Also they mention the mere "act of registering TM domains is automatically in bad faith".

if you know what you are doing and there is no good other reason for doing so it is bad faith.

Then of course they point out that have been awarded millions in such cases against TM offenders. (Scare tactic)

it is true.

In which case I responded since they mentioned their big money awards for each case why hasn't V gone after and won cases for all the other 30-40 domains containing V's TM? Surely the incentive is there if they are so confident in winning such cases which end in big money awards.

we do not know how they select domains.

See with obvious black and white straight forward laws like the lanham act or ACPA how the hell do the current domain owners of domains containing V's TM still own their domains? Some were since 2008.

we do not know how many were not kept.

I

t's really an easy way for these companies to get domains for nothing. Just send threats and mentioned big money awards.

the domains are probably worthless they do not gain from this they want to defend their TM.

The threat is only really valid if they proceed. Although companies like this have unlimited resources so they can just proceed with $3000-$5000 costing court cases just to get the domains they want and for PR purposes add to their roster of won cases. So win win for them.

there is a high chance they will proceed with UDRP or lawsuit.

Is it enough or isn't it understood by TM lawyers that in court if it is pointed out that there are 40-50 other domains containing their mark that have been registered for 5-10 years prior to mine ever being registered that are owned by other domainers and not V that this is enough to throw out a case?

does not sound like a good defense.

Also what about domain owners from China ? I see alot with domains with V's mark owned by Chinese and most with privacy . Does this provide them some protection? I doubt it.

it is more difficult to sue them if they are overseas.

I even called buydomains about their domain they owned containing V's TM and ask how they can own it.

They said their lawyers advise them on what domains they can invest in that does not leave them exposed to lawsuit.

sounds like a generic reply. perhaps the lawyers are no aware of these domains.

i think you can lose up to 100k for a single domain, why take a chance? what payoff do you expect?

WhoaDomain.com · Mar 14, 2018

dordomai said:
perhaps you were just unlucky, who knows.

if you know what you are doing and there is no good other reason for doing so it is bad faith.

it is true.

we do not know how they select domains.

we do not know how many were not kept.

I

the domains are probably worthless they do not gain from this they want to defend their TM.

there is a high chance they will proceed with UDRP or lawsuit.

does not sound like a good defense.

it is more difficult to sue them if they are overseas.

sounds like a generic reply. perhaps the lawyers are no aware of these domains.

i think you can lose up to 100k for a single domain, why take a chance? what payoff do you expect?

I think they just want these specific domains. Pm me to understand why.

But the other domains surely have more potential trademark issues than mines. Ask for list via pm.

I think the idea of a big company exercising it's power over a little guy is more like what bothers me the most than anything else.

In cases like this has anyone ever experienced the TM holder giving the offending TM infringer some "walking away money" if they just surrender the domain?

This lawyer did mention they would come to some amicable solution with me if I cooperate. How would that even happen if you already surrender the domain?

Odd thing to say.

What if I sold it instead to one other domain holders like Mike Mann who owns another V domain?

Seems hopeless.

hawkeye · Mar 14, 2018

Avtar629 said:
What if I sold it instead to one other domain holders like Mike Mann who owns another V domain?

There you go, sell an infringing domain you've been contacted by the TM owners about as to being such, to someone else (which you probably won't warn or tell them of) so you can put a few dollars in your pocket, and let them deal with the fallout and TM issues! And then wonder why domaining is considered to be filled with shady scammers. ...good f-ing grief!

WhoaDomain.com · Mar 14, 2018

As far why registering such domains? Chalk it up to no sleep and drunk registering . Wasn't really thinking.

But of course stupidity is no excuse in court.

Really is annoying though that all those other domains get to exist and I have to get such emails.

There are domains like

V Support.com
V Phone.com
In V.com
The V.com
Phone V.com
V Virtual.com

My responses to them I feel is me already like stirring up a hornet's nest. I'll give him a call later to discuss handing these over.

Mine was V VR.com and VR V.com

And since VR has multi use as virtual reality and vacation rentals?

Figured (sleepily and drunk) V Vacation Rentals?

Aaahhh such crap.

Thanks everyone for the input. We all do dumb things. Let he or she who never has cast the first stone.

BaileyUK · Mar 14, 2018

Avtar629 said:
?
This lawyer did mention they would come to some amicable solution with me if I cooperate. How would that even happen if you already surrender the domain?
.

it's called 'Lulling' you into making a 'unreasonable' demand

an 'amicable solution' in lawyer talk, usually means you 'Not being out of pocket' cost of registration and transfer only. ie, and we (lawyers) 'amicably' agreed not to Sue you

WhoaDomain.com · Mar 14, 2018

hawkeye said:
There you go, sell an infringing domain you've been contacted by the TM owners about as to being such, to someone else (which you probably won't warn or tell them of) so you can put a few dollars in your pocket, and let them deal with the fallout and TM issues! And then wonder why domaining is considered to be filled with shady scammers. ...good f-ing grief!

Mike Mann isn't stupid. He'd know the domain is an issue. But since he has one of the issue domains on sale prominently on his site and he has huge nuts. He'd probably take it. But I want to know if this is even an option legally or am I liable if I do this?

I'm thinking yes. Pretty obvious.

This domain must be something they really want since it was just registered 1-18.

Why anyone consider proceeding? I guess most people hate being wrong and would proceed or try to just to not be wrong.

But two wrongs don't make a right. Never has.

Gonna have to eat the loss.

Thanks again.

WhoaDomain.com · Mar 14, 2018

BaileyUK said:
it's called 'Lulling' you into making a 'unreasonable' demand

an 'amicable solution' in lawyer talk, usually means you 'Not being out of pocket' cost of registration and transfer only. ie, and we (lawyers) 'amicably' agreed not to Sue you

See that would be fine. No harm no fowl. I thought it would be gimme $250 or $500 for the trouble lol

NEVER GONNA HAPPEN! LOL

Silentptnr · Mar 14, 2018

I see no good in registering these types of names. These types of domains 99.999% of the time end up dropped with money down the drain.

I wouldn't even spend a penny or a minute of time on stuff like that. Too many alternatives. Even without the TM, those seem valueless.

mr-x · Mar 14, 2018

Avtar629 said:
Mike Mann isn't stupid. He'd know the domain is an issue. But since he has one of the issue domains on sale prominently on his site and he has huge nuts. He'd probably take it. But I want to know if this is even an option legally or am I liable if I do this?

I'm thinking yes. Pretty obvious.

This domain must be something they really want since it was just registered 1-18.

Why anyone consider proceeding? I guess most people hate being wrong and would proceed or try to just to not be wrong.

But two wrongs don't make a right. Never has.

Gonna have to eat the loss.

Thanks again.

Why are you inviting trouble for 10's of dollars?

Want2learn · Mar 14, 2018

MapleDots said:
How much can you sell the domains for.... realistically?

Have you had any inquiries?

Now make your decision.... easy...

Its all about costs and measures

I agree with this. I do want to add that for the company to proceed they will have to spend $ for attorneys and litigation. It is still about money. Is it worth V's time and money to go after the domain, and invest thousands into legal costs vs just paying a few hundred to buy the name? Chances are the domainer doesnt have much money. So a bankruptcy would end a judgment against him. Does V want this domainer to go down that road? And then if you are V what do you say when the name has been dropped a few times, and yet they are still shelling out thousands in legal costs when they could have already bought or regged the name for peanuts?

I dont know all the nuances about the cyber squatting, but I can say that if I buy a piece of land and want to hold it, it isnt "cyber squatting" like a domain. Arent there some similarities with property and domains?

mr-x · Mar 14, 2018

Next time use an address in AU.

Kate · Mar 14, 2018

It doesn't matter what others own in their portfolios. TM holders cannot go after each offender so they pipeline/prioritize cases. Pointing at others does not constitute a valid defense.
If these names are indeed bad faith registrations (sounds like they are), you apologize for your 'noob' mistake and you offer to delete the domains, unless they want them for defensive purposes.
But TM holders own too many domains they didn't want because of squatters.
Why do even keep names like these ? They are liabilities.
You are not a 'little guy' fighting against Evil Corp, you are just a TM offender so do the right thing.

Bob Hawkes · Mar 14, 2018

Avtar629 said:
Mike Mann isn't stupid. He'd know the domain is an issue. But since he has one of the issue domains on sale prominently on his site and he has huge nuts. He'd probably take it.

Thanks again.

Maybe I misunderstand the coded talk in the thread, but I don't see one on these domains for sale on his main page of listings. Be sure you are not maligning someone with incorrect or out of date information. Maybe I misunderstand, but please do check that what you say is for sure true. In fact, always best to leave those not directly involved out of your discussions, if it is good to discuss this legal issue at all online. I think some on this thread have offered you good advice that you should follow. People may seem harsh, but they just want you to find the easiest way out, and for others not to fall into this stressful situation.

hawkeye · Mar 14, 2018

Want2learn said:
Is it worth V's time and money to go after the domain, and invest thousands into legal costs vs just paying a few hundred to buy the name?

I'd be pretty sure that 'V' has either in-house legal or on retainer legal, and they would be paying them whether they filled a UDRP or not, so why should they just go waste a 'few hundred' more on a domain squatter/infringer?

Want2learn said:
I dont know all the nuances about the cyber squatting, but I can say that if I buy a piece of land and want to hold it, it isnt "cyber squatting" like a domain. Arent there some similarities with property and domains?

Yes, you can just squat on someone's else's land or property while they're using it and demand they pay you to get off it.

What's your home address, we'll get some tents and trailers, and we'll see how that works for you.

WhoaDomain.com · Mar 14, 2018

Just want to edit. The point of this thread really to see if any can convince me not to hand over these domains. It was always my original (albeit not my first choice) intention to give it up.

I have one registry's .com discount to blame. Impulse buy really.

I have this lawyers number he said to call him.

I will say this though these lawyers do kill you with niceness. They act nice via email and it's all civilized but never be fooled. They are sharks in a suit.

WhoaDomain.com · Mar 14, 2018

mr-x said:
Why are you inviting trouble for 10's of dollars?

More like someone who knows they F*** up and don't want to admit it.

Handing over domains = admit it

Even if you are wrong sometimes you still wanna prove you were right.

Tell me who never did this?

Of course in my case it would be an expensive risk just to get to say "see? I was right!"

I'm not confident of this.

question URDP? Give up domains?

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