Two questions about front-running.

Kuffy · Jan 12, 2018

I've just had a third name listed by a front-running scammer. I'm a fairly small player in the domain world, so I assume that the practice of front-running is on the increase at the moment. I'm surprised that the market places haven't commented in the reports of this unsavoury practice. It has been suggested to me that it is staff members who are doing this, but I find it difficult to believe that these companies would risk their businesses for what must be a relatively small profit. So I have two questions -

What can I do to safeguard my names against this attempted "theft"? I'm a bit sensitive about the issue, because I have lost a number of names in the past due to registrar "error" or neglect.

Do you check that the market place is able to deliver a name when paying for a fast transfer? A company supporting a front-runner may not be able to deliver the name, and waiting for a refund ties up funds and may involve costs. A simple who-is check and email before paying could help save this inconvenience.

Asfas1000 · Jan 12, 2018

Pls provide more info ? eg. listed by someone else where ?

Kuffy · Jan 12, 2018

Sedo
https://sedo.com/search/details/?do...stId=201433681&origin=search&language=e&p=2_1
Afternic
http://www.afternic.com/search?k=simplypho&tld=com

Both names are owned by me, and neither is available for sale. I'm keeping both of them for my own use.

creataweb · Jan 12, 2018

Makes no sense especially at those low prices. Do they think they'll buy the name from you for $10? lol

Kuffy · Jan 12, 2018

creataweb said:
Makes no sense especially at those low prices. Do they think they'll buy the name from you for $10? lol

Well if you take into account sales fees, they would need to buy the name for $10 or $20.

Do they need to list a lot of names to get a discount or free listings?

Asfas1000 · Jan 12, 2018

Maybe those litsings are from the previous owner ?

creataweb · Jan 12, 2018

Kuffy said:
Well if you take into account sales fees, they would need to buy the name for $10 or $20.

Do they need to list a lot of names to get a discount or free listings?

Not sure but doesn't make a lot of sense. If you aren't selling the name I don't know what their end game is considering the low BINs.

Asfas1000 · Jan 12, 2018

Sedo for one won't let you list domains that you don't own.

Kuffy · Jan 12, 2018

Asfas1000 said:
Sedo for one won't let you list domains that you don't own.

Well that is obviously not true.

Asfas1000 · Jan 12, 2018

Kuffy said:
Well that is obviously not true.

AFAIK it holds true, but if you list your domains and they expire, it will take some time until Sedo finds out and unlists them.

You then get an email from them titled "Account Maintenance Check" and it basically says "Please review the domains below which are ones that have been deleted from Sedo's marketplace:"

Kuffy · Jan 12, 2018

You are receiving this email as a result of the SedoMLS listing process being invoked through a Sedo account, on the following domain(s). A listing on these domain(s) has been attempted at 2018-01-12:

rmgblockchain.com $149.00 usd

Order date: 2017-12-30 00:05:47
Payment method: Account Funds
Order SubTotal $9.69
Type Years/QTY Price SubTotal Cancel
rmgblockchain.com - Renewal 1 $8.69 $8.69
rmgblockchain.com - DomainAuction 1 $1.00 $1.00

Kuffy · Jan 12, 2018

Asfas1000 said:
AFAIK it holds true, but if you list your domains and they expire, it will take some time until Sedo finds out and unlists them.

You then get an email from them titled "Account Maintenance Check" and it basically says "Please review the domains below which are ones that have been deleted from Sedo's marketplace:"

You will see from the email that it states that it is a NEW listing request, and I didn't list it for sale.

It would be nice if someone from Sedo or Afternic could post some clarification in this ( or one of the other) threads. I really don't want to have to waste time building websites to protect myself. It can't be good for their image to post buttonsto mt No Afternic site.

Asfas1000 · Jan 12, 2018

When I type your domain in Sedo, there is a "Buy Now" button with price set to $149.

The "seller" is from Germany, active since 2007.

Any idea who the previous owner is ?

Kuffy · Jan 12, 2018

Nope - I bought them through a Name Silo expired auction.

I could understand if it was an old listing, but both emails state that they are new applications. Also they appeared shortly after I posted the names on forums.

The Pho one was mentioned here, and the blockchain one on a Bitcoin forum. Somebody is obviously reading names that appeal to him, and front-running them on these market places. It wouldn't be so bad if I wanted to sell the names, but both of those names are keepers for future projects.

Asfas1000 · Jan 12, 2018

Frontrunning for $150 ? Can't be !

My guess : Previous owner listed it at Sedo. By the time you got hold of it, Sedo's bot detected the change in the WHOIS, but this doesn't necessarily mean change in actual ownership. So they email the new address to confirm participation in the SEDO MLS. If you don't, they may drop the listing after some days.

urlurl · Jan 12, 2018

i had a name listed on afternic - but it was from the previous owner.

Kuffy · Jan 13, 2018

Asfas1000 said:
Frontrunning for $150 ? Can't be !

My guess : Previous owner listed it at Sedo. By the time you got hold of it, Sedo's bot detected the change in the WHOIS, but this doesn't necessarily mean change in actual ownership. So they email the new address to confirm participation in the SEDO MLS. If you don't, they may drop the listing after some days.

That is what I would hope it was, but if this is the case then it's really badly managed.

I didn't get the mailfrom Afternic,but from Name Silo
The mail states that it is a new listing request
The notificaton doesn't come immediately after I acquire the name, but after I mention the name on a public forum - there can be a couple of months difference.
Wise accountant ( the first front runner that I noticed) was listed by me at Name Silo with a BIN price, The Afternic scam price was about $1,000 higher. When I increased my Bin price, the Afternic price was increased shortly afterwards to preserve a profit. Wise Accountant has now been deleted from the Afternic listings.

Afternic/Sedo should ask for confirmation directly in my opinion. This could be in a variety of forms.

They could ask for DNS resolution to their lander,
A small text file could be added to the root directory of a hosted domain
An entry could be made in the whois if privacy is not enabled
A fifth DNS server could be added to the DNS list
Or they could just write directly to the new registrant asking if the listing should be continued.

ultradog · Jan 13, 2018

When I search Sedo or Afternic for the blockchain name, it doesn't come up now. So you've gotten one de-listed so far.

Kuffy · Jan 13, 2018

SimplyPho.com is still on Afternic
http://www.afternic.com/domain/simplypho.com
and it's on Sedo as Make-an-offer

Sedo now reports wiseaccountant.com and rmgblockchain.com as not for sale. Which is great.

This shows the power of Name Pros - maybe we should have a de-listing request board here. That seems to be the thing that works.

Note to Sedo and Afternic - please remove my SimplyPho.com name. Commenting on the reasons for supporting front-running might also be appreciated.

ultradog · Jan 13, 2018

Sedo is rather slow to take note of domains that aren't owned by the person listing them. You contacted them directly, I hope. Otherwise, the privacy on your names will stall them.

Kuffy · Jan 13, 2018

Why should I have to contact them. They must know that it's changed, or they wouldn't have triggered the mail contact, and why do they say it's a new request - that makes it sound like a scam.

Two questions about front-running.

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