debate The domain industry is doomed: Will the industry ever unite, and say no to shady practices?

We are conflating a lot of different things here, first the industry was never united and will never be, the very first post I ever wrote on TLDInvestors.com was
We are all on the same team. Yeah right.

@promo made a good point which I touched on earlier this week, when making accusations, http://tldinvestors.com/2017/12/when-making-an-accusation-make-sure-you-got-the-whole-story.html

I mean there are a lot of things that don't look right but without a complete picture it's hard for one to make an accusation.

I have heard for years people ponder why blogs don't do deep 20/20 type investigations?

1) A lot of time and money required
2) Potential liability so one might need insurance to protect against action
3) Much different to have your real name attached to something compared to @seeksthetruth easy to slander someone without much care because one thinks they will never be found.
4) Hard to get the full scoop, no company in the space like NameJet or GoDaddy is going to give a full, deep look into what's going on. So lack of access can make any effort half hearted.

It's easier to get the feedback of those who have been wronged, let those people tell their stories. You still need to make sure they can document their stuff because some will make stuff up to get their name known.

As far as united, the industry was never united and never will be, a lot of jealousy and hate in this business. Different cultures, some place morality over money, others vice - versa.

There are many areas where people don't agree and it doesn't matter, outside of a conference for the most part domaining is a solitary job, it's Tennis not Baseball, this is not a team sport. You make relationships sure, friendships sometimes that are real.

But at the end of the day you can make it on your own and never read a blog, forum or attend a conference.

I met a guy years ago at a party he told me he owned 2000 domains, I was surprised no one at the party was into domains that I knew of. I said what's your name at Namepros? He said "What's a namepros?" "You don't know Namepros?" "No, should I?"

He was by himself, did not read blogs or forums, did not care to, he just dealt in a few niches where he had real world relationships.

It's great to come together share stories, experiences, get help but one can make it alone.

If there was an industry united, every domain investor would be on Namepros, would join the ICA, etc...

When you have an industry that has so many people hiding in the shadows who would never use their own name, (and they are not whistleblowers or governments are looking for to throw in jail) you can never be united, when I can't look at GoDaddy auctions and see something defining but rather Bidder 1, you will never be united.

The good news is you don't have to be united, do you, help those you can help, and have your eyes wide open, everyone wants your money, everyone wants to tell you what your names and their names are worth, appraisals are worthless and it's still a pretty good business that you can run from anywhere with little overhead.

Again IMO

Happy Holiday.

equity78 said:

We are conflating a lot of different things here, first the industry was never united and will never be, the very first post I ever wrote on TLDInvestors.com was
We are all on the same team. Yeah right.

@promo made a good point which I touched on earlier this week, when making accusations, http://tldinvestors.com/2017/12/when-making-an-accusation-make-sure-you-got-the-whole-story.html

I mean there are a lot of things that don't look right but without a complete picture it's hard for one to make an accusation.

I have heard for years people ponder why blogs don't do deep 20/20 type investigations?

1) A lot of time and money required
2) Potential liability so one might need insurance to protect against action
3) Much different to have your real name attached to something compared to @seeksthetruth easy to slander someone without much care because one thinks they will never be found.
4) Hard to get the full scoop, no company in the space like NameJet or GoDaddy is going to give a full, deep look into what's going on. So lack of access can make any effort half hearted.

It's easier to get the feedback of those who have been wronged, let those people tell their stories. You still need to make sure they can document their stuff because some will make stuff up to get their name known.

As far as united, the industry was never united and never will be, a lot of jealousy and hate in this business. Different cultures, some place morality over money, others vice - versa.

There are many areas where people don't agree and it doesn't matter, outside of a conference for the most part domaining is a solitary job, it's Tennis not Baseball, this is not a team sport. You make relationships sure, friendships sometimes that are real.

But at the end of the day you can make it on your own and never read a blog, forum or attend a conference.

I met a guy years ago at a party he told me he owned 2000 domains, I was surprised no one at the party was into domains that I knew of. I said what's your name at Namepros? He said "What's a namepros?" "You don't know Namepros?" "No, should I?"

He was by himself, did not read blogs or forums, did not care to, he just dealt in a few niches where he had real world relationships.

It's great to come together share stories, experiences, get help but one can make it alone.

If there was an industry united, every domain investor would be on Namepros, would join the ICA, etc...

When you have an industry that has so many people hiding in the shadows who would never use their own name, (and they are not whistleblowers or governments are looking for to throw in jail) you can never be united, when I can't look at GoDaddy auctions and see something defining but rather Bidder 1, you will never be united.

The good news is you don't have to be united, do you, help those you can help, and have your eyes wide open, everyone wants your money, everyone wants to tell you what your names and their names are worth, appraisals are worthless and it's still a pretty good business that you can run from anywhere with little overhead.

Again IMO

Happy Holiday.

Click to expand...

Agreed. THIS IS NOT A TEAM SPORT


Except there are some who do not play that way.

equity78 said:

We are conflating a lot of different things here, first the industry was never united and will never be, the very first post I ever wrote on TLDInvestors.com was
We are all on the same team. Yeah right.

@promo made a good point which I touched on earlier this week, when making accusations, http://tldinvestors.com/2017/12/when-making-an-accusation-make-sure-you-got-the-whole-story.html

I mean there are a lot of things that don't look right but without a complete picture it's hard for one to make an accusation.

I have heard for years people ponder why blogs don't do deep 20/20 type investigations?

1) A lot of time and money required
2) Potential liability so one might need insurance to protect against action
3) Much different to have your real name attached to something compared to @seeksthetruth easy to slander someone without much care because one thinks they will never be found.
4) Hard to get the full scoop, no company in the space like NameJet or GoDaddy is going to give a full, deep look into what's going on. So lack of access can make any effort half hearted.

It's easier to get the feedback of those who have been wronged, let those people tell their stories. You still need to make sure they can document their stuff because some will make stuff up to get their name known.

As far as united, the industry was never united and never will be, a lot of jealousy and hate in this business. Different cultures, some place morality over money, others vice - versa.

There are many areas where people don't agree and it doesn't matter, outside of a conference for the most part domaining is a solitary job, it's Tennis not Baseball, this is not a team sport. You make relationships sure, friendships sometimes that are real.

But at the end of the day you can make it on your own and never read a blog, forum or attend a conference.

I met a guy years ago at a party he told me he owned 2000 domains, I was surprised no one at the party was into domains that I knew of. I said what's your name at Namepros? He said "What's a namepros?" "You don't know Namepros?" "No, should I?"

He was by himself, did not read blogs or forums, did not care to, he just dealt in a few niches where he had real world relationships.

It's great to come together share stories, experiences, get help but one can make it alone.

If there was an industry united, every domain investor would be on Namepros, would join the ICA, etc...

When you have an industry that has so many people hiding in the shadows who would never use their own name, (and they are not whistleblowers or governments are looking for to throw in jail) you can never be united, when I can't look at GoDaddy auctions and see something defining but rather Bidder 1, you will never be united.

The good news is you don't have to be united, do you, help those you can help, and have your eyes wide open, everyone wants your money, everyone wants to tell you what your names and their names are worth, appraisals are worthless and it's still a pretty good business that you can run from anywhere with little overhead.

Again IMO

Happy Holiday.

Click to expand...

Well said Ray. You just helped reignite my domaining fire that had slowly been burning out for many months now. This is an I game and not a team game and I'm cool with that since I know I'm not the only one that feels that way.

Looking forward to domaining in 2018.

"Will the industry ever unite, and say no to shady practices?"

Short answer is no. If it's unethical, but not illegal and has a very limited possibility of legal action then those practices will continue. @HeyNow was consistent in bringing attention to these practices. They annoyed a lot of people, especially those who had differing opinions / financial stakes in certain extensions which was entirely unrelated to these practices, and now they have a restricted account.

Anyway, as far as the industry being doomed? As we've seen with almost every market, concentration will continue. Not good.

The industry isn't doomed. There will always be the internet, websites, need for domains.

In affiliate marketing we had these type of posts and it was competition, black hats, Google slaps, Google becoming an affiliate, SERP changes, adware (toolbars), short cookies, forced cookies, cooking stuffing, ad blocking, tracking issues, problems with network compliance, commission rates falling sometimes right before the holidays, sneaky merchants, sneaky affiliates, sneaky networks, sneaky affiliate managers and OPMs........

The only thing you can do is work on the issues as best you can and move forward. Every business out there has it issues, shadiness. I would say we're probably better today than in the past because some of these issues have come to light. Some have been addressed, some still need working on.

Internet.Domains said:

Agreed. THIS IS NOT A TEAM SPORT

Except there are some who do not play that way.

Click to expand...

It depends on your paradigm.

If you take a football team, yes, you all have the same objective of beating the opposition. But damn, you want to be the one who scores the goal.

Or put it another way -- if you get the ball with a good chance to score, you better do that, or else you will be replaced by your "teammate".

On domaining, it seems at first we are competitors, but damn, we are attempting to really grow a part of marketing - naming.

We are here to solve the naming problems of businesses, organisations, individuals and even governments.

They tend to get ripped off by big corporate marketing agencies. These agencies often bad-mouth "the evil squatters". We are up against emotion. We have on our side - logic.

We need to recognise we have common interests and strangely, are a sort of team.

.

Probably not since unethical to most means highly profitable.

Read this good article on DotWeekly about API bidding, warehousing, whois changes, non reauctioning, sniping, etc. Various quotes snipped from this good article.

http://dotweekly.com/the-unfair-advantage-a-domainers-life/

“When domains “sell” at auction, did it really “sell”?”

Why were mxgb.com and kvcp.com not reauctioned on NameJet and were taken into ownership directly by the auction house providers ownership, while currently being offered for sale by New Ventures Services Corp?

“Let’s look at some more suspicious activity based on whois records for some more pending delete domain names. I included the following domain names to Web.com in my question, if they could provide the reasons for the movements, with most appearing to be auctioned and then New Ventures Services Corp appearing in whois afterwards according to whois records. The above quoted statement was the only one I received from Web:”

“My biggest concern would be, is the auction provider creating “fake” accounts and “winning” pendingdelete auctions? If the domain is bid up high enough, let it go. If not, “we keep it” and sell it later for a set price. Web.com has stated that they do not bid against their customers. What Web.com didn’t say, was anything about keeping domains that are not paid for or completed for whatever reason.”

“New Ventures Services Corp can buy domain names, grab them on the drop and sell them. There is nothing against that but it’s also nice to have some clarity, directly from a public company when things look a little “out of place” based on whois records. If a domain is “sold” on your auction platform and soon after is taken into ownership by a subsidiary of YOUR company…. it creates questions IMO. If your presented an opportunity to clarify the situation, but avoid the chance to do so, why? unless this answers that question and I’m missing it:”

“Web.com does not comment on individual accounts, but we can assure you that Web.com companies (including NameJet and SnapNames) do not bid against our customers in any auction on our platform.”

The solution elected was to build an API. Look at comments too.

Grilled said:

Please share your thoughts.

Click to expand...

Has always been a place which attracts corrupt people, always will be.

Wrong thread... Sorry.

Interesting to see that Rick Schwartz was also suckered in by Adam Dicker...

The irony of a united team response to the shady practice of TheDomain's Twitter account hack, that equity78 manages, should not be lost.

I voted Yes, the domain industry will unite to say no to shady practices... because it always does... IF the person wronged is liked by enough peers to spark a cause-action.

Domaining is very much a team sport. Every extension is a League. Every niche, a community stadium.

When the players care enough about The Game they play to spark property value cause-actions, instead of the shady practice of pump & dump Parked signage, the 'sport' will build an audience and the industry will come of age.

equity78 said:

We are conflating a lot of different things here, first the industry was never united and will never be, the very first post I ever wrote on TLDInvestors.com was
We are all on the same team. Yeah right.

@promo made a good point which I touched on earlier this week, when making accusations, http://tldinvestors.com/2017/12/when-making-an-accusation-make-sure-you-got-the-whole-story.html

I mean there are a lot of things that don't look right but without a complete picture it's hard for one to make an accusation.

I have heard for years people ponder why blogs don't do deep 20/20 type investigations?

1) A lot of time and money required
2) Potential liability so one might need insurance to protect against action
3) Much different to have your real name attached to something compared to @seeksthetruth easy to slander someone without much care because one thinks they will never be found.
4) Hard to get the full scoop, no company in the space like NameJet or GoDaddy is going to give a full, deep look into what's going on. So lack of access can make any effort half hearted.

It's easier to get the feedback of those who have been wronged, let those people tell their stories. You still need to make sure they can document their stuff because some will make stuff up to get their name known.

As far as united, the industry was never united and never will be, a lot of jealousy and hate in this business. Different cultures, some place morality over money, others vice - versa.

There are many areas where people don't agree and it doesn't matter, outside of a conference for the most part domaining is a solitary job, it's Tennis not Baseball, this is not a team sport. You make relationships sure, friendships sometimes that are real.

But at the end of the day you can make it on your own and never read a blog, forum or attend a conference.

I met a guy years ago at a party he told me he owned 2000 domains, I was surprised no one at the party was into domains that I knew of. I said what's your name at Namepros? He said "What's a namepros?" "You don't know Namepros?" "No, should I?"

He was by himself, did not read blogs or forums, did not care to, he just dealt in a few niches where he had real world relationships.

It's great to come together share stories, experiences, get help but one can make it alone.

If there was an industry united, every domain investor would be on Namepros, would join the ICA, etc...

When you have an industry that has so many people hiding in the shadows who would never use their own name, (and they are not whistleblowers or governments are looking for to throw in jail) you can never be united, when I can't look at GoDaddy auctions and see something defining but rather Bidder 1, you will never be united.

The good news is you don't have to be united, do you, help those you can help, and have your eyes wide open, everyone wants your money, everyone wants to tell you what your names and their names are worth, appraisals are worthless and it's still a pretty good business that you can run from anywhere with little overhead.

Again IMO

Happy Holiday.

Click to expand...

^ thats funny
Sorry George Bush is not the president anymore.
Things have changed, domaining is not badminton, its wrestling.
Tweet @TheDomains on twitter, see how the new teams play.

To many dishonest people in this business to ever make it honest again.
Time to go delete spam and voicemails from indians pretending to be revenue canada

^
1). email & voicemail spam are not in the same ball park as Domainer scams.
2). as industry scams go, domainer scams are petty cash.
3). the most costly domainer scam is the self-inflected Parked 'page scam' that virtually got all player pages kick-out of the web game.

Clearly Google, et al, view 'domainers' as (Parking franchise) teams of (pick-up name) players fielding pages that do not add value to the search game.

Domaining is a team sport for "Domainers". This is a common sense marketplace reality, in any industry.

Collectively, players, and game plan, are viewed as a group playing within the rules. Or not.
Your "indians pretending to be revenue canada" reflects this.

I have to agree with Raymond guys.

Being self employed, means you work for yourself.

Sure obviously you can network and do trading like here on namepros but teams of people bidding in groups or “Partnerships” on all these outside platforms with anonymous ID’s or erasing their data is simply to cover up the problem. It isn’t going away either.

The largest online internet auction platform (not domains) on the internet has devolved into a shill mess, recently spoke about it with a major seller. It’s sad because in the long run it hurts everybody, the platform isn’t trusted, the buyers lose confidence and sellers can’t make sales.

While some “celebrity” domainers and bloggers legitimize their behavior, I will call it as I see it. I will remain vocal and comment. I have no blog, no advertising to protect, no partnerships, and no axe to grind. Completely tired of reading about 2017 scandals, and funny that the conventions have the same names as guest speakers. Grilled has pointed out ton’s of data about people bidding on their own names. If you are a new member or have not read it, its all over this forum.

So 2018, lets hope things change for the better.

Quote of the year from one “Celebrity” blogger.

“But I tell you that I go in with others to buy domains and its the one thing you can't track and you cry like little babies“