legal Net Neutrality Has Been Repealed!

The most important Utility of Net Neutrality was the principle of 'equal access'... as that is the core principle of a democratic society.

The absence of Net Neutrality will transition the web into a socioeconomic communications caste system.

Comcaste.com anyone? Too late, AT&T owns it.

eyedomainous said:

The most important Utility of Net Neutrality was the principle of 'equal access'... as that is the core principle of a democratic society.

The absence of Net Neutrality will transition the web into a socioeconomic communications caste system.

Comcaste.com anyone? Too late, AT&T owns it.

Click to expand...

wasnt like that before 2015, when the repelled part was added.

Nothing is going to change for the worse.

Simply put...

The Internet was founded and thrived as an unregulated and generally decentralized system..

NN seeked to regulate this system. You can not say the world and Internet is going to end without it - when it was not founded in this system, did not thrive in this system, and where this regulatory switch had yet to really be turned on to this point.

The Internet you know and love is here because NN did NOT exist.

I imagine that all of you who think this regulation is required to move forward are also 100% against blockchain or P2P technology - as it is decentralized.

Can't have things both ways guys...

@Michael M

The whole net neutrality part that we are for is regarding throttling and shutting down sites because the ISPs decide to do so.

It's taking the power away from a very minimal amount of hundred billion dollar companies from basically "doing what they want" in terms of slowing down sites and shutting down sites and manipulating a resource that runs today's business world.

Look at Apple, it just came out officially that they had the power to throttle the speed of old i phones without notifying them (under the pretext of saving the battery life.. ya ok), and it was indirectly forcing people to upgrade because their phone as a result was way too slow..

Multi-Billion dollar companies + no oversight = Abuse of power in the name of maximizing shareholder returns

History has proven that time and time and time again.

@pokainc - That seems to be a discussion rooted in what political policy is better, and not actually about the internet industry's health or NN's effect on it.

Now you also want to regulate how Apple builds their phones. That is very telling...

I can't argue you into thinking over-regulation is bad. I understand that is not possible.


I leave you with a quote... A little dated, but relevant. Trade the political terms for internet/technology ones and end in domains and you will get the idea...


"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

-Martin Niemöller

ok there, if you're going to start with random quotes.. you can find any quote to justify one point or another.

One reason why that quote is not so valid anymore is the fact that corporations today have become nationless governments of their own... many even own their own private security / military like forces..

1- Letting the internet be affected by greedy corporations which impacts the whole internet system is letting them affect the health of the internet.. The health of the internet is mainly the fact that it's an equal playing field. No one can shut you down. So your point is invalid.

2- Regulate how Apple builds their phones.... NOBODY SAID THAT... They were toggling the speed of the phone without the client's consent... so let's say you heavily use your phone for business because you travel alot.. the phone is slowing down.. impacting your business and you didn't know why... it's not how they build the phones.. it's what they are doing in secrecy affecting a client's business or personal property.
So your point is inavlid.

3- "i can't argue you into thinking over-regulation is bad".... you must have amnesia as I said several times, Logical MINIMAL REGULATION is a good thing, NOT OVER-REGULATION.. read a bit before posting random troll-like comments. So again, your point is inavlid.

I seriouslyyyyyy hope you're not a lawyer.. you would lose all your cases...

Again, as much as logically possible.. I don't approve of government involvement in anything.

Here's a quote for you:

When you let major corporations control people's lives, have detailed info on the majority of the population and have no oversight, they become the Tyrants of their day fueled by the insatiable desire for money - Saro aka pokainc

Doesn't really matter, we'll all be dead from tax cuts.

edit: just noticed was posted by someone else in the page before this one

The Grinch said:

wasnt like that before 2015, when the repelled part was added. Nothing is going to change for the worse.

Click to expand...

The web is new, and yes 'before' things like VOIP phone service showed-up, around 2005, Telco ISPs had no vested interest in 'blocking' traffic -but they first blocked VOIP (PDF), in 2005. Then they came for 'File Sharing' torrent sites, in 2007.

When the FCC asked them to stop Comcast sued the FCC saying that "the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) does not have ancillary jurisdiction over Comcast's Internet service under the language of the Communications Act of 1934." -of course there was no internet in 1934 so they won that case, though the Judge "censured Comcast from interfering with its subscribers" and said the FCC would have authority under a different section of the code. Which, to make a long story short, established Net Neutrality under section 706 of the Communications Act / Title II.

The 'dial up' Internet has always been classified by the FCC as an information service free of most regulation, but DSL was regulated as a telecommunications service. So corporations that owned both were playing both sides of the fence as the web evolved from a text & pics dial-up phone service to a 'Rich Media' (VOIP, video, streaming TV) broadband network.

Net Neutrality simply established one set of rules for the modern 'new media' web. This Is Not your 2006 internet (the year you joined NP and YouTube was in its first year). The web has grown-up, and rules to ensure it remains an 'equal access' network came about as a response to numerous attempts to block or throttle competitive content, as well as Municipal Access in half of the US -before Any legal action was taken to protect consumers.

Going back to the 1934 telephone rules of "before", by definition means No Legal Rules Apply to 'Rich Media'. That, in itself, is a change for the worse... for rich media companies, producers and viewers. The mere threat that an ISP can now legally block, throttle, add a fee, or package, VOIP, file sharing, video or streaming TV, is certainly Not Better... so, at the very least admit... Something Has Changed!

Bah.... Follow the white rabbit. Merry Christmas! May God Bless you all.

With Net Neutrality Dead, Proposed Bill Promises Internet "Fast Lanes"
It’s only been a week since the Federal Communications Commission repealed net neutrality protections and Republican lawmakers are already trying to set legislation into motion to cement the controversial ruling.
...
While Blackburn’s statement on Twitter made it seem like the goal of the Open Internet Preservation Act is to restore the net neutrality regulations previously in place through the FCC’s rules, the bill would actually take away key protections. Most importantly, it would still allow for the creation of Internet “fast lanes,” which means everyone gets a baseline browsing speed but ISPs can charge users or websites more for access to faster internet.

Blackburn’s newly proposed bill would ban throttling and blocking, but it would leave fast lanes as fair game.

At this point, the bill is in its nascensy — it’s only been proposed. There’s no guarantee it will see a vote, let alone become law.

Arca said:

With Net Neutrality Dead, Proposed Bill Promises Internet "Fast Lanes"
It’s only been a week since the Federal Communications Commission repealed net neutrality protections and Republican lawmakers are already trying to set legislation into motion to cement the controversial ruling.
...
While Blackburn’s statement on Twitter made it seem like the goal of the Open Internet Preservation Act is to restore the net neutrality regulations previously in place through the FCC’s rules, the bill would actually take away key protections. Most importantly, it would still allow for the creation of Internet “fast lanes,” which means everyone gets a baseline browsing speed but ISPs can charge users or websites more for access to faster internet.

Click to expand...

It didn't take long for one local ISP to flex its new muscle.

Armstrong Zoom, a northeastern US ISP with about a million subscribers, has sent its customers warnings that they have been accused of copyright infringement, and that subsequent accusations would lead to having their network connections slowed to the point of uselessness.

“Please be advised that this may affect other services which you may have connected to your internet service, such as the ability to control your thermostat remotely or video monitoring services.”

Accused pirates who want their full service restored have to answer some copyright questions, read an educational piece about copyright infringement, and sign an agreement acknowledging that they have done so. However, if more complaints come in later, the consequences will be more severe.

In other words, its really gonna cost you. The old copyright enforcement scam is back. All it takes is an accusation. No due process. In most cases not even an official looking letter. Just an 'email notice', from any alleged copyright holder, with a For Your (ISP) Eyes Only 'confidentiality clause' in the footer.

https://boingboing.net/2017/12/27/winter-is-coming.html

Yeah, this is bad. It will start out in small as the small stuff here and there to get us accustomed to the new way of things.
I fear that in a few years even our perception of what is normal about the net will change.
Was a website slowed for some reason? Yeah, thats totally normal now...

DanielN said:

Yeah, this is bad. It will start out in small as the small stuff here and there to get us accustomed to the new way of things.
I fear that in a few years even our perception of what is normal about the net will change.
Was a website slowed for some reason? Yeah, thats totally normal now...

Click to expand...

It is certainly funny how a regulation that never had time to really do anything and was around for such a short time is going to cause so much disruption by being put back the way it always was for decades before it.

But this is a New Year, and one of my resolutions is to realize (even if it makes no logical sense to me) - that society has been flipped on it's head and logic is out the door with matters such as NN...

Good luck to all in 2018!

ok so your resolution is to accept what you've been spewing all along anyway... great resolution. So in reality it's an indirect acceptance of yourself. Improvements, baby steps lol

I agree with the good luck to all in 2018 though. Good luck to you too

pokainc said:

ok so your resolution is to accept what you've been spewing all along anyway... great resolution. So in reality it's an indirect acceptance of yourself. Improvements, baby steps lol

I agree with the good luck to all in 2018 though. Good luck to you too

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Lol... Basically I meant that resolution is to understand there is not much point in trying to fight societal shifts, even if it involves my industry, especially on the forum level. So I am going to do my best to butt out, but thought I'd make that one last comment. Which, I probably shouldn't have.

But definitely best of luck to all in 2018 - rather or not I agree with you - I always want the best for all!

NN or Title 2 is still in effect until the rule is entered into the federal register. Sometime in 2018.

If you're an American and would prefer NN rules, call / write your state and federal representatives. States can pass laws just like the Federal Gov, no matter what Clair McCaskill thinks.

Michael M said:

It is certainly funny how a regulation that never had time to really do anything and was around for such a short time is going to cause so much disruption by being put back the way it always was for decades before it.

But this is a New Year, and one of my resolutions is to realize (even if it makes no logical sense to me) - that society has been flipped on it's head and logic is out the door with matters such as NN...

Good luck to all in 2018!

Click to expand...

You are correct that it is a reversal of how it was for decades before bit many things have changed around 2010-13. We saw an unprecedented centralization and lack of competition between ISP-s.
Were NN laws perfect? Of course not. At least as a citizen, you have some sort of oversight in a "democracy". Do you have any input what a corporation board decides between closed doors?
Maybe I'm just idealistic.
But do we really want to gamble with the internet?

It DT want to become most hated person? As far as my knowledge US people will not tolerate unnecessary controlling like many other countries.

thevictor said:

I think this will essentially force companies like Apple or Facebook to start offering their own internet to try and maintain control...Instead of paying Comcast or Verizon to access Facebook, people will start paying Facebook to access the internet.

Just uneducated speculation of course...

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Google have been installing fibers underground since 2010. (maybe earlier than that)

I knew a few people who worked for companies that was contracted by google to do so.

We need another AARON SCWARTZ and look what they did to him. He stopped this the first time in 2013 almost singlehandedly. So terribly sad.

Don't buy into this story of securing enterprise and that this is all a pricing reconfiguration for a differently segmented market. Sure, your phone costs may go down (so you use more) and prices of consumer goods may go down, but cost of living will continue to increase along with the leveling of whatever is left of the class system into the lords and the serfs. This global distribution system of rerouting a cut of everything into the corporate wallet is NOT good for enterprise, not to mention humanity.

What else would we expect with a default to whatever you want the call the opposite of neutrality?

In the US - I'm watching highly skilled white collar jobs go away and corporate fulfillment centers emerging in third world countries, we were bombing in the 1990's. I'm watching "new jobs" springing up with descriptions for middle managers with entry level titles and salaries (from the 1980's). I'm watching six-figure earning baby boomers a step away from homeless shelters and scared to death. And it's worse for the poor, as always.

In the US - I see an increase in scamming, Amazon affiliations, text and email spams, robot calls, popups I can't rid of, and pay-for-content throughways. Definitely notice a slow down and also an acceleration that registers a rigged experience. It's like driving your car on a grid.

Mad Max - unfortunately, is the same association I had.

ctmixing said:

Google have been installing fibers underground since 2010. (maybe earlier than that)

I knew a few people who worked for companies that was contracted by google to do so.

Click to expand...

They have been for sure, but dealing with municipalities forced them to slow down a bit. I have a feeling they will be making a major purchase sometime soon...