IT.COM

warning .AG Registry is taking 7 years old .ag domain away from me, holds many other .ag domains hostages.

Spaceship Spaceship
Watch
.AG Registry is taking 7 years old domain away from me, holds many other .ag domains hostages. .AG domain investors/web developers beware!

I registered b.ag on November 9, 2010. When I tried to renew it in the beginning of past November while the domain was still active, .AG Registry, Nic.ag, didn’t let me do so. It appeared that Nic.ag silently imposed a lock on b.ag preventing it from being renewed even before I tried to renew it.

So I contacted Hexonet, the current registrar of b.ag, and asked for help. They confirmed that the lock was made at registry side. They tried to contact Nic.ag regarding this issue but haven’t got response from Nic.ag. Hexonet legal department advised me to contact Nic.ag directly which I did.

I was emailing at all known Nic.ag addresses ([email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]) almost each day for few weeks and didn’t receive any response from them. After few weeks emails sent to Nic.ag started getting back undelivered. Now emailing to Nic.ag works again, but they still didn’t provide me with a single response! I also opened 45 tickets at mydomains.nic.ag at all their departments regarding this issue but got no response at all.

Finally, after more than a month of numerous attempts to get in touch with Nic.ag, yesterday, December 14, Hexonet forwarded to me Nic.ag response, as follows:

“The problem stems from two violations of our policies, which have been in existence for much more than 10 years. Unfortunately, there was an error that caused some of these names to be made available technically, but the registration was still invalid. We caught it too late to delete it in the Add Grace period of 5 days after registration, and so we decided then to allow persons to go ahead and develop legitimate websites for their personal businesses. Even so, we monitored these closely to ensure that the names were not sold or were registered simply for speculation and not in good faith.

http://www.nic.ag/reserved-names-policy.htm <http://www.nic.ag/reserved-names-policy.htm>

Now, we see that this domain name, which you do not "own", has NOT been developed for a legitimate business, and is instead listed on SEDO as for sale. We cannot continue to allow these violations to continue, and so we will not allowed further renewals of this and other domains like this that continue to violate of stated policies and rules. The domain name will be allowed to expire its current term and will no longer be allowed to be re-registered and will return to the pool of names that are blocked and/or restricted by the Registry.”


Below is what I think of all this mess:

1. Indeed, Nic.ag policy says: “Minimum length of a domain name is 1 character, not including extensions. However, all 1 character domain names are reserved by the Registry.” Also b.ag, along with many other .ag domains, is indeed in Registry reserved/restricted list

Before I registered b.ag of course I was unaware of this, as I saw other single character .ag domains being dropped and re-registered by different persons all the time. Needless to say that when I discovered b.ag being available and registered it, I had no idea of any reserved/restricted .ag names. OK, one can say it was my fault that I didn’t read all their policies before registering it. But who does? The domain is available for registration – I take it.

2. Nic.ag, in contrary with their own polices, allowed me to own b.ag for 7 (SEVEN!) years, enjoying my annual renewal payments (around $80 annually) but suddenly woke up and took it away. Moreover, Nic.ag says they “closely monitored” it during all these 7 years, knowing that the domain name is under violation of their policies, but did nothing. If Nic.ag itself doesn’t care about their own policies, who should (rhetoric)?

3. Now Nic.ag says that listing b.ag for sale at Sedo is in violation of their policies, and they “cannot continue to allow these violations to continue", so "we will not allowed further renewals of this and other domains like this that continue to violate of stated policies and rules.

So, Nic.ag considers selling .ag domains names illegitimate activity and violation of their policies.

B.ag was listed for sale for FEW YEARS, and Nic.ag, while “closely monitoring” it and enjoying my payments, quietly held the domain hostage of their misguided policy. BTW, Nic.ag policy says the following:

“11. Domain names may be re-sold.”

What is this?

4. Nic.ag says: “we monitored these closely to ensure that the names were not sold or were registered simply for speculation and not in good faith.”

According to Namebio, many .ag domains were sold in the past, including some reserved/restricted domains as well. Again, Nic.ag is in violation of their own policies, as they did and do allow registration and selling of restricted domain names.

But most concerning thing is they claim selling .ag domains is in violation of their policies. As such, nothing prohibits them from monitoring public .ag sales and then suspending those sold for decent amounts. How should feel the buyer of t.ag that he bought in 2011 for $60,000 on Sedo!

5. Amazingly, Nic.ag allowed many other reserved/restricted names be registered and STILL allows doing so, thus holding more and more domains hostages. One can easily verify this by running whois scan of the names presented in reserved/restricted domain list. Some reserved/restricted domains were registered even very recently this year.

6. Few days ago Nic.ag also suspended i.ag which was registered in 2004!

7. Despite Nic.ag says that “we decided then to allow persons to go ahead and develop legitimate websites for their personal businesses” on registered domains from reserved/restricted list, all those domains are still in violation of Nic.ag policies and may be silently taken back anytime at Nic.ag discretion. Nic.ag policy clearly says:

“All domain names registered that may be on one of the lists on this page are considered to be in violation of these Regulations.

If a domain name that violates this policy is later found to have been registered, then the registration may be found to be invalid, and the domain name may either be deleted or transferred to the Registry.”


Some of reserved/restricted domains were registered for much longer than b.ag. Some of them were registered by end users. For example, ms.ag is registered by Morgan Stanley… are they aware that Nic.ag may take it back anytime if they want lol.

8. .AG domain investors, beware! Think twice before you register/dropcatch/buy .ag domains, as your investment is at risk! If you got valuable .ag domain and list it for sale, Nic.ag may allow you to own it for a few years, taking your money, and then quietly take it away from you.

9. .AG end users/web developers, beware! Despite Nic.ag silently allowed you to use one of their reserved/restricted names for your business, it is STILL in violation of Nic.ag policy, so “the registration may be found to be invalid, and the domain name may either be deleted or transferred to the Registry”.

Nic.ag is one of the most obscure registries I ever seen. Forget about .ooo registry that took 9 months old domain away from the owner, now we have the new leader. From my experience, Nic.ag absolutely doesn’t give a sh*t on domain registrants: no single response to all my emails & 45 support tickets being sent to them during a month!

On the opposite, I’m so grateful to Hexonet for all their assistance regarding this issue. Hexonet is no doubt one of the best registrars with amazing customer support.
 
Last edited:
22
•••
The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
This unfortunate incident is a reminder of something that we tend to forget: many if not most registries hate speculators like us. Especially country code registries that have state funding and backing and are not obsessed with numbers. The clerks working in ccTLD registries don't really have growth targets to meet, their priority is to ensure stability, quality of service and keep the TLD clean. If have seen SLAs, and the emphasis is on a stability and resilience. Not on the number of registrations.
On the other hand, private companies like Verisign love speculators.
So we are tolerated, sometimes considered a necessary evil. But the majority of people think what we're doing is not legitimate, potentially unethical and should possibly be outlawed. Domain administrators are no different and sometimes are protective of their TLD as they don't want it to be depleted or become synonymous with parked pages.
They see you are a foreigner and not even from Anguilla, so maybe they're feeling even less sympathetic...
Personally I think it's not very fair, registries should have clear rules on what they allow or disallow, with the understanding that if it's not forbidden it is permissible.
 
4
•••
I wonder if Nic.ag has any Antigua and Barbuda state funding and backing. According to the whois, Nic AG LLC is located in Kissimmee, Fl. Technical backend operator is Afilias. Nic.ag acknowledge jurisdiction of the US, especially New York and California. I wonder if Patrick Lay, the owner of Nic.ag, had ever been in Antigua :xf.smile:

Nic.ag seems to be some tiny entity that somehow got contract to manage .AG and .LC

These guys must love speculators, the speculators seem to feed them.
 
0
•••
It's not an ICANN rule that they can't have single L domains that I'm aware of so this looks more like we want it and will sell for more money at a later date. Not good business...
 
0
•••
It's not an ICANN rule that they can't have single L domains that I'm aware of so this looks more like we want it and will sell for more money at a later date. Not good business...

I won't be surprised.

Just went through Nic.ag list of reserved names: I counted 80+ reserved/restricted domains that were registered by various individuals/entities as well as 70+ names that are available for registration by anyone at the moment. Insane.

Patrick Lay of Nic.ag is such a funny person: he even registered in his own name, as individual, few reserved/restricted names, such as pay.ag and payment.ag, using his own private Yahoo email address without notifying Nic.ag as organisation.

This .AG story could have been just another funny and weird story about just another tiny and obscure ccTLD registry. However, .AG is pretty popular among European end users because:

"Aktiengesellschaft (German pronunciation: [ˈʔakt͡si̯ənɡəˌzɛlʃaft]; abbreviated AG, pronounced [ʔaːˈgeː]) is a German word for a corporation limited by share ownership (i.e. is owned by its shareholders) and may be traded on a stock market. The term is used in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, South Tyrol and for companies incorporated in the German-speaking region of Belgium. It is also used in Luxembourg (French pronunciation: [aktjɛ̃ʒøzɛlʃaf]), although the French-language equivalent, Société Anonyme, is more common." - Wikipedia.

.AG definitely needs much better management. BTW, Afilias is technical operator for .AG.
 
0
•••
0
•••
"If a domain name that violates this policy is later found to have been registered, then the registration may be found to be invalid, and the domain name may either be deleted or transferred to the Registry"
Sucks for you but that's a risk you took. Only lost $80, look at it that way. Could have sold it for thousands, that was your upside.

Not all .cctlds have the .com policies.

Certain countries will just take your name, cannot complain or sue anywhere, even if it's 124% within their rules. Try to sue the government in, say, Ukraine, Sierra Leone or Sudan.
 
Last edited:
0
•••
.
1. Indeed, Nic.ag policy says: “Minimum length of a domain name is 1 character, not including extensions. However, all 1 character domain names are reserved by the Registry.” Also b.ag, along with many other .ag domains, is indeed in Registry reserved/restricted list


Actually if you enter the url http://www.nic.ag/rules.htm into the waybackmachine, you will see that this policy did not exist in 2010 or 2011..... or even 2015.... or 2016.... in fact it didn't even exist in July 2017.

So my suggestion would be that you take all appropriate steps to save archive entries as screenshots + offline pages (before they get them removed) and then you sue them for enforcing policy change retrospectively.

This is what it used to say

"Minimum length of a domain name is 1 character, not including extensions", it never said anything about reserved domain names. They have simply stolen from you, and then tried to cover their backs, this is fraud.

They have lied to you about you breaching policy for 7 years.
 
Last edited:
4
•••
Last edited:
0
•••
"If a domain name that violates this policy is later found to have been registered, then the registration may be found to be invalid, and the domain name may either be deleted or transferred to the Registry"
Sucks for you but that's a risk you took. Only lost $80, look at it that way. Could have sold it for thousands, that was your upside.

Not all .cctlds have the .com policies.

Certain countries will just take your name, cannot complain or sue anywhere, even if it's 124% within their rules. Try to sue the government in, say, Ukraine, Sierra Leone or Sudan.

I lost $80 x 7 years = $560 :)
 
0
•••
Why you have ignored the most important post on this thread and replied to others? My one?
 
Last edited:
0
•••
Why you have ignored the most important post on this thread and replied to others? My one?

I didn't.

Your post has very great catch, I just had no time to go to Archive.org yet. I will do soon and coment in more details your great findings.

Thanks!
 
0
•••
Actually if you enter the url http://www.nic.ag/rules.htm into the waybackmachine, you will see that this policy did not exist in 2010 or 2011..... or even 2015.... or 2016.... in fact it didn't even exist in July 2017.

So my suggestion would be that you take all appropriate steps to save archive entries as screenshots + offline pages (before they get them removed) and then you sue them for enforcing policy change retrospectively.

This is what it used to say

"Minimum length of a domain name is 1 character, not including extensions", it never said anything about reserved domain names. They have simply stolen from you, and then tried to cover their backs, this is fraud.

They have lied to you about you breaching policy for 7 years.

Thank you very much for your hint again!

The things are getting even worse actually. It seems that at least i.ag domain name could have been really stollen from the registrant by Nic.ag recently unless Nic.ag compensated the i.ag registrant all his expenses.

As I already wrote, Nic.ag very recently this year seized i.ag that was registered in 2004.

The point is at the moment of registration of i.ag, Nic.ag policy didn't have ANY reserved/restricted/blocked domain names. According to AG Domain Name Rules Summary saved by Archive.org on August 3, 2004:

5. Minimum length of a domain name is 1 character, not including extensions.
6. A name may begin with a digit.
7. One and two character domain names are allowed
...
11. Domain names may be re-sold

Screenshot:

namepros1.jpg

i.ag was registered on September 24, 2004. So at the moment of registration of i.ag one character domains were absolutely allowed as well as domain reselling.

According to Archive.org, Nic.ag introduced their AG Blocked or Reserved Domain Names Policy on May 28, 2007 only, 3 years after i.ag was registered. That insane policy claimed all single character domains registered before May 28, 2007 now to violate Nic.ag policy:

The following domain names are blocked or barred from registrations or are reserved (registered) by the Registry (Effective Date: May 28, 2007):

...
4. Single digits
5. Letters of the alphabet

Thus, Nic.ag decided to retrospectively take back all single character domains:

All current domain names that are in violation of these Regulations will be transitioned from the current registrant to the Registry upon the Expiration Dates current on or before May 27, 2007. They cannot now be renewed beyond the current expiration date.

If a domain name that violates this policy is later found to have been registered, then the registration would be found to be invalid,and the domain name will either be deleted or transferred to the Registry. The registrant, reseller or registrar will be re-imbursed the actual amount paid, if any.

Screenshot:

namepros2.jpg

At the same time, since the beginning and until at least July 09, 2017 AG Domain Name Rules Summary explicitly allowed registration of one character domains:

One and two character domain names are allowed

Below is screenshot dated by July 09, 2017:

namepros3.jpg

After July 9, 2017, Nic.ag modified their policy, as follows:

They inserted the following:

However, all 1 character domain names are reserved by the Registry.

and replaced "One and two character domain names are allowed" with "Two character domain names are allowed"

The screenshot of AG Domain Name Rules Summary as of now:

namepros4.jpg

After modifying the policy in the abovementioned way, Nic.ag started seizing one character domain names. The first victim was e.ag, then i.ag, and now b.ag. Regarding e.ag, it dropped and was re-registered somewhen in the Summer 2017, and then seized by Nic.ag. i.ag was seized very recently. B.ag is pending seizure now.

Regarding b.ag. Nic.ag gave two reasons to take b.ag away from me:

1. It is one character domain that is in their reserved/restricted domain list and as such violates Nic.ag policy, so its registration was invalid all these 7 years.
2. The domain was listed for sale at Sedo.

So, this obscure company Nic.ag explicitly allowed registration of one character domain names in one place of their policy and prohibited it in another place. The domain was in reserved/restricted list at the moment of registration, but Nic.ag policy explicitly allowed registration of one character domains at that time. I didn't check Nic.ag policy at the moment of registration of b.ag in 2010, but I did it later and saw that both registration of one character domains and domain reselling are explicitly permitted by Nic.ag policy. No surprise that I didn't check Blocked or Reserved Domain Names Policy then, as I already saw what I needed.

But now I can demand refund of all my renewal costs spent during 7 years lol. AG Blocked or Reserved Domain Names Policy dated by December 29, 2010, i.e. slightly after I registered b.ag, says:

If a domain name that violates this policy is later found to have been registered, then the registration would be found to be invalid,and the domain name will either be deleted or transferred to the Registry. The registrant, reseller or registrar will be re-imbursed the actual amount paid, if any.

Screenshot:

namepros5.jpg
 
Last edited:
2
•••
Patrick Lay of Nic.ag is such a funny person: he even registered in his own name, as individual, few reserved/restricted names, such as pay.ag and payment.ag, using his own private Yahoo email address without notifying Nic.ag as organisation.

This .AG story could have been just another funny and weird story about just another tiny and obscure ccTLD registry.

Hmm, I followed up a bit on that pay.ag domain, and this guy and registry really seem to handle their business in a quite obscure and shady way.

pay.ag has exactly one nameserver listed which is a subdomain of patricklay.com. The whois of that domain lists "Charisma" as the registrant. For the sake of convenience *.nic.ag hosts are used there to provide name services...
Also it seems like he just recently (2016) registered online.ag for himself :) Was that domain also on the restricted list at any time?

Seems like this guy is justing doing business as he is pleased eventhough he is nowhere listed @ IANA for the TLD.
As "owner" and administrative contact only the "UHSA School of Medicine" is listed along with George S. Daniel from that institution. Did you try reaching out to this guy too? Wonder if he know what's going on there.
 
1
•••
I live and travel in Europe and I have never seen a .ag in the wild. Not even in Germany.
Also, this is what Wikipedia has to say on .ag: (link removed)

Yea, being from Germany I also haven't often seen a .ag in action. I suppose primary reason are the rather high registration costs. I think I saw just recently a .AG promo at $65 - which is the cheapest you could get. The big and standard registrars used in Germany tend to charge at least 100 Euro ($120)

Though I actually am aware of two companies using one as their main/production domain: A Hostingprovider is using hostedoffice.ag for his customer portal and a hotel/hostel in Cologne is using hostel.ag.

German wiki-entry for .ag has an additional interesting story (quick translation by me):
At times, the registry prohibited registration of some valueable domains. Reasons for this never have been revealed to the public. In May 2002 this practice was reversed - at a sudden, 1000 high-class domains were available again. Amongst them where names of big german companies like Beiersdorf, Puma and Adidas.

Kinda fits in the story...
 
Last edited:
2
•••
IMO, it's yet another banana republic with a privately operated registry that smelled the dollars too late. Violations? When they allow the registrant to renew a domain in full knowledge of it all, they waive all rights to appear legitimate.

Lesson learned, stick to legit ccTLDs.
 
1
•••
0
•••
Hmm, I followed up a bit on that pay.ag domain, and this guy and registry really seem to handle their business in a quite obscure and shady way.

pay.ag has exactly one nameserver listed which is a subdomain of patricklay.com. The whois of that domain lists "Charisma" as the registrant. For the sake of convenience *.nic.ag hosts are used there to provide name services...
Also it seems like he just recently (2016) registered online.ag for himself :) Was that domain also on the restricted list at any time?

Seems like this guy is justing doing business as he is pleased eventhough he is nowhere listed @ IANA for the TLD.
As "owner" and administrative contact only the "UHSA School of Medicine" is listed along with George S. Daniel from that institution. Did you try reaching out to this guy too? Wonder if he know what's going on there.

Indeed, IANA shows UHSA School of Medicine as .AG Manager and George S. Daniel of UHSA School of Medicine as .AG Administrative Contact.

According to The Daily Observer of Antigua and Barbuda:

In 1991, the International Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) delegated the .ag domain to Nic Ag, an Antiguan company owned by Dr George Daniel and Dr Patrick Lay.

Thus, George S. Daniel and Patrick W. Lay are in the same boat.

According to the Daily Observer, it appears that the government of Antigua and Barbuda, among other things, was trying to take control over national TLD by introducing the Telecommunications Bill 2016. It seems that they were unsuccessful so far, as it is seen from the Nic.ag response sent to the registrar of b.ag that .AG is still being managed by the same people.

What is even funnier is Daily Observer says:

"On at least three occasions under previous ALP administrations, attempts were made by government to take over the administration and management of the .ag domain name space."

:)

It follows from the comments under that Daily Observer article that Patrick Lay of Nic.ag is former government employee:

The countries root domain is co-owned by the man (Dr. Patrick Lay) who held the position of director of Information Technology under the UPP and Dr George Daniel their spokesperson for matter like West Indies Oil Company and Antigua Public Utilities Authority. While our tech infrastructure rotted, these guys enjoyed the luxury compartment days.

The screenshot below confirms it:

namepros6.jpg

So people asked Patrick Lay there:

Please point out the process which ensured you did not have an unfair advantage due to your government possition/ connections?

Around the time the Telecommunications Bill 2016 was introduced, United Progressive Party (UPP) of Antigua and Barbuda harshly criticized the new bill. The corresponding statement on behalf of the UPP was made by Dr. Edmond A. Mansoor, United Progressive Party Spokesperson on Information.

It appears that Edmond A. Mansoor is the "former minister of telecommunications during the UPP administration" and that he was the minister at the time Patrick Lay of Nic.ag was the director of the Center of Information Technology :roll:

Dear European companies that use .AG domain names for your business, better run from there.
 
Last edited:
1
•••
In the early days of the Internet it was indeed common that ccTLDs were managed by individuals acting as caretakers, very often in university. Over time the ccTLDs have gradually moved to more professional undertakings and their respective governments took control. However there are still disputed TLDs. Famous examples include Iraq or the Philippines. I didn't know that .ag was still privately run. Certainly something to keep in mind when buying names in ccTLDs.

In recent weeks the acquisition of Slovakia's TLD .sk by Centralnic also caused controversy. It's been out of government control since its early days.
 
1
•••
Yea, being from Germany I also haven't often seen a .ag in action. I suppose primary reason are the rather high registration costs. I think I saw just recently a .AG promo at $65 - which is the cheapest you could get. The big and standard registrars used in Germany tend to charge at least 100 Euro ($120)

Though I actually am aware of two companies using one as their main/production domain: A Hostingprovider is using hostedoffice.ag for his customer portal and a hotel/hostel in Cologne is using hostel.ag.

German wiki-entry for .ag has an additional interesting story (quick translation by me):


Kinda fits in the story...

Did quick check in Alexa and found quite a few European companies using .ag for business, let alone numerous redirects:

shape.ag - Shape Services GmbH
sportsdata.ag - Sportradar AG
admiral.ag - Novomatic Gaming Industries GmbH
patrizia.ag - Patrizia AG
austrianairlines.ag - Austrian Airlines AG
webhoster.ag - Webhoster.de AG

etc etc. Didn't go through the entire list.

pa.ag - Peak Ace AG - they have 926,056 Alexa rank, and they are in Nic.ag reserved list as well, bad luck!
 
2
•••
From their point of view, you fell through the cracks for a period of time and then got busted.
 
0
•••
It's not so much that they clawed the domain back, it's their acknowledgement that they observed its alleged violation take place, in full agreement, for years. It's beyond hypocritical.
 
2
•••
At the least, you should get your renewal money back. Personally I think that only fear of losing revenue due to bad reputation among domain people will work.
 
0
•••
At the least, you should get your renewal money back. Personally I think that only fear of losing revenue due to bad reputation among domain people will work.

Recently received message from Hexonet saying that I'm not entitled to the refund, as "the policy states these refunds will only happen if the deletion occurs within the applicable grace periods. Unfortunately, as the domain is not within an applicable grace period, the registry is not obligated to provide a refund."

LOL, after collecting the money for alleged invalid registrations Nic.ag is now trying to run away and keep the money.

As it was noted, AG Blocked or Reserved Domain Names Policy dated by December 29, 2010, i.e. slightly after I registered b.ag, says:

If a domain name that violates this policy is later found to have been registered, then the registration would be found to be invalid,and the domain name will either be deleted or transferred to the Registry. The registrant, reseller or registrar will be re-imbursed the actual amount paid, if any.

Screenshot:

namepros5.jpg

Below is what AG Blocked or Reserved Domain Names Policy says today:

If a domain name that violates this policy is later found to have been registered, then the registration may be found to be invalid, and the domain name may either be deleted or transferred to the Registry. The registrant, reseller or registrar may be re-imbursed the actual amount paid, if any, if this occurs within the applicable grace periods.

Screenshot:

namepros7.jpg

Nic.ag guys change their policies on the fly. Every .AG domain registrant must check Nic.ag policies each morning if one doesn't want their domain/money to be stolen.
 
Last edited:
3
•••
Now they are acting unprofessional. It is like they are bagging to be sued.
 
0
•••
horrific and thoughtfull story
thanks for sharing amd opened our Eyes out👍
 
0
•••
Back