Dynadot

Bidding on your own names at NameJet...?

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Once in awhile I see people bidding on their own domains at NJ. I would think it would be frowned upon.

Today's seems more obvious than normal. Or am I missing something here?

Airlinejobs.com owned by Andy Booth at Booth.com and high bidder is BQDNcom (James Booth).

3 bids down we see Boothcom as a bidder.

Same thing with MovieZone.com. Owned by Andy Booth in which he currently appears to be the high bidder.

High Bid: $2,475 USD by boothcom

They actually won their own domain airplanesforsale.com. Im guessing it didnt get as high as they wanted so needed to protect it.

Bidder Amount Date
bqdncom $2,001 7/17/2017 12:23 PM
boothcom $1,950 7/17/2017 12:23 PM
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
Sent message to iftheywontauditwewill email address. Transparency and integrity need to be brought to this industry for everyone's future success.

Trying to figure out how to post on this message board without getting flagged. Think because the email address. Hope this posts.
 
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Namejet will never do that.

They say they have modified their system to prohibit sellers to bid on domains they have listed, but at the same time will continue to allow sellers to list domains they don't own.

Shill bidding will simply assume another form and continue as if nothing happened.

Exactly. I said that at the beginning of the thread.

Shill bidding like this will never go away, especially when comments made throughout this thread fully documents those who understand how to game the system and those who do not or will not. Thanks for identifying yourselves. Greed here is the same as anywhere. It's naive to trust this system or others. These are well run, organized unscrupulous operations. Btw, look over at pheenix auctions today, an increase in 2 english word seller auctions.... find out who they are.
 
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@Eric Lyon This thread has the appearence of a few new accounts created for purposes of anonymity and hiding their previous handles. @StevenG did that as he admitted. Or am I wrong?
I hope so. Who are these new posters anyway? Are these
@904.com I cant believe you are a newbie.
 
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Yes JamesB1989 is my old account. It has not been used in a long time. @Michael can check this account and I also request @Michael to check my BQDNcom account on Namejet and provide domains that I have bid on. I have never shill bidded. Once I started BQDN.com I created the BQDNcom account at NameJet to list names and buy names for my business. I am still having fingers pointed at me and I just want to clarify that I AM allowed to bid on any name I wish even if a family member owns it. The reason names get listed sometimes with sellers that have featured pages is because they get a slight commission deduction from the normal 15%. Please actually provide FACTS and show me where I have ever shill bidded because I haven't. I won AirplanesForSale.com and flipped it. I won AirlineJobs.com which I will keep. I am not going to keep repeating myself but just because me and Andy are brothers does not mean we are the same people. I have my own portfolio, he has his. So we do bid against each other sometimes like on MGP.com, JLZ.com etc. We have partnered on a few names like D8.com that is it. I have never owned any of the names that were listed for sale so I have every right to buy them if I want them. The fact that people are making accusations towards me without any facts is unfair and slanderous. Like I said please check my accounts.

No, you shouldn't be allowed to bid on your family member's auction, as that is pretty much definition of shill bidding:

Shill bidding happens when anyone—including family, friends, roommates, employees, or online connections—bids on an item with the intent to artificially increase its price or desirability.
pages.ebay.com/help/policies/seller-shill-bidding.html

Your winning some of those is not proof of your clean intention to win the name, as the best and easiest way to do that is call your brother and agree the price. Your winning of the names could well be just a side effect, as you have to be prepared to sometimes win the names. As Michael's analysis showed, if you fine tune the practice, you'll end up winning about 7% of names, however the reward in the auctions where you did not win but helped to drive the price up will compensate that by factor of 10, 20, 30, 40 times or more.

@NameJetGM this has to be clearly in the policy that

a) one alias per business/person
b) bidding on family, friends, business associates etc. beyond your normal pattern for unrelated auctions will lead to ban. If you going to bid $501 for western prem LLLL.com, then do it for everyone of those in similar ratio, not 80% friends/associates, 5% others.
 
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I just want to clarify that I AM allowed to bid on any name I wish even if a family member owns it.

@BoothDomains 60K views and over 1200 replies to this thread and this is what you have to add? Really???
 
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Creators of a market. Market makers. This is a churning operation. Pump and dump over and over. But they aren't very smart posting defensive self evident ethical problems. Nothing will change my mind.
 
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@Eric Lyon This thread has the appearence of a few new accounts created for purposes of anonymity and hiding their previous handles. @StevenG did that as he admitted. Or am I wrong?
I hope so. Who are these new posters anyway? Are these
@904.com I cant believe you are a newbie.
I'm not a newbie domain investor. Started hand registering domains in college Feb '99. Im a long term investor and dont buy/sell, mainly just hold, so in the past didn't have much of a reason to post here. After seeing what you guys were doing I was impressed and wanted to contribute. Richard
 
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I'm not a newbie domain investor. Started hand registering domains in college Feb '99. Im a long term investor and dont buy/sell, mainly just hold, so in the past didn't have much of a reason to post here. After seeing what you guys were doing I was impressed and wanted to contribute. Richard

Welcome to Namepros! Thanks for clarifying and I will take you at your word. I just used your handle as convenience as an example since it was recent post and this huge thread I need go back 1209 posts and mention all the other strange ones to be fair. Please keep commenting and participating! We need more people participating in this forum and certainly have much to offer if you have that many years at this.
 
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I am only on page 19 of this AMAZING Drama.... but I will say the whole thing so far about people bidding on their own domains.... no costs? HAHAHA.

What no one has mentioned so far is artificially increasing the value of your domains via shill bidding.

For Example.

You have a domain worth $500. You put it on an auction site and for whatever reason you now have it won with a shill account for $5,000.

What happens then?

We all know thanks to NameBio @Michael and others, there is a record of that price.
Estibot will even adjust its own value based on new auction data.

You now artificially increased your "domain value" from $500 to the $5k range... after all, someone else was willing to pay it and now you can point to past sales and new updated estibot value as you relist it.

EVEN if you do not get $5k, you may get $2k.... but you still made money, even after paying the original shill bid auction fee.

Okay, now back to reading. =)
 
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The consequences of the totally illegal practice of Shill bidding will mean that prices for certain types of name now will plummet
and possibly take years to recover (if ever)

Anyone that bought these domain types at the top of the market has been totally screwed over twice

1 They paid a multiple of the real market value in the first place and all due to a fraudulent organised crime syndicate
2 They will now have to hold for years (or more) to get anywhere near breakeven

and NJ are merely being seen to be doing something about this as they are in full damage limitation mode

Well done the shill syndicate!
I doubt any of them will lose any sleep over the lives (& finances) ruined by their crimes
 
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Welcome to Namepros! Thanks for clarifying and I will take you at your word. I just used your handle as convenience as an example since it was recent post and this huge thread I need go back 1209 posts and mention all the other strange ones to be fair. Please keep commenting and participating! We need more people participating in this forum and certainly have much to offer if you have that many years at this.
Thank you. As I mentioned in a previous post in this thread I am a Certified Public Accountant. Im not saying to trust me just because of that. However, I would not still be holding my license after 15 years if I were a liar. My actions and statements are held to a different standard than most (by the Texas State Board of Public Accountancy).
 
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I don't mind questions being asked about me if they are constructive and factual like @Michael is doing. I just don't appreciate false accusations and (death) threats being sent to me. People calling me a scammer etc. A website being created making false accusations against me there too (shillgate.com). This is all slanderous. I don't know of anyone that is actually purposely shill bidding. I do agree that the HKDN account is suspicious though. I am happy to look at facts and I do not agree with shill bidding at all. Like I said I have never shill bidded on my own names and only bid on names that I actually want.

Why are you making false accusations that we are making false accusations?? We are just repeating and highlighting what has been brought up in the community discussion to help people follow along.

@BoothDomains
 
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I am only on page 19 of this AMAZING Drama.... but I will say the whole thing so far about people bidding on their own domains.... no costs? HAHAHA.

What no one has mentioned so far is artificially increasing the value of your domains via shill bidding.

This has been mentioned multiple times already.
 
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Here are some developments that I think are worth sharing.
I had lodged a formal complaint with NJ, giving them the details of all the domains that I won on NameJet where I suspected shill bidding.
NameJet denied that the seller (Oliver) was engaged in shill bidding, but said that as a matter of good will and to restore faith , they're ready to cancel the auctions for those domains and pay me my amount back.
I got similar response from NameJet GM Jonathan, who I think is trying actually hard, to sort out the issue and his email seemed genuine.
I accepted the offer, they took away both the subjected domains instantly and have issued a refund, which I am yet to receive on my card.
Both bhha.com and erfh.com are back with Oliver.
And the alias HKDN that I reported to them seems suspended at the moment, though I can be wrong here, but my system hasn't detected any activity from that handle since last 24 hours.
I ran the model again to see the domains with bids, and as a forum user already pointed out, its remarkably down than before.
So I guess they have done away with bots and fake ids.
I am sorry for not replying earlier as I was busy somewhere.
 
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Plain stupid? Why would I want to manipulate the price when I am bidding to win? How does that make sense. The domains I won were charged instantly to my card. I then sold one of the names. Why would I want the price to be higher? Now that is stupid making an accusation like that. Just because we share a surname does not make our businesses the same does it. Whats sad is making false statements and accusations. Let's see what @NameJetGM has to say and @Michael about me.

Let's say one of the Winklelvoss brothers put say a house in an auction. The other brother thought well this seems like a good deal I will bid and win that house and puts it in his name and then sells it for a profit. Is that now allowed too or is that bad ethics although they own completely different properties and investments.

What I dont understand is why you or your brother would rather pay a 15% commision to NameJet to acquire each other’s names than just consult each other to see if either of you is interested in a domain before listing it in an auction!!!!!!!
 
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NameJet denied that the seller (Oliver) was engaged in shill bidding

That's odd because we know that Oliver extensively bid on his own auctions.
 
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What I dont understand is why you or your brother would rather pay a 15% commision to NameJet to acquire each other’s names than just consult each other to see if either of you is interested in a domain before listing it in an auction!!!!!!!

They are part of this inflation operation.
 
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I am only on page 19 of this AMAZING Drama.... but I will say the whole thing so far about people bidding on their own domains.... no costs? HAHAHA.

What no one has mentioned so far is artificially increasing the value of your domains via shill bidding.

For Example.

You have a domain worth $500. You put it on an auction site and for whatever reason you now have it won with a shill account for $5,000.

What happens then?

We all know thanks to NameBio @Michael and others, there is a record of that price.
Estibot will even adjust its own value based on new auction data.

You now artificially increased your "domain value" from $500 to the $5k range... after all, someone else was willing to pay it and now you can point to past sales and new updated estibot value as you relist it.

EVEN if you do not get $5k, you may get $2k.... but you still made money, even after paying the original shill bid auction fee.

Okay, now back to reading. =)
I mentioned this concept already . . . bright minds think alike:)
 
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What I dont understand is why you or your brother would rather pay a 15% commision to NameJet to acquire each other’s names than just consult each other to see if either of you is interested in a domain before listing it in an auction!!!!!!!

Maybe brother 1 was hoping to sell a domain for $X but it never got that high and brother 2 saw value at the lower than expected price. I am *NOT* saying that is or isn't the case in this specific case here .. but just giving one of many possible answers to your hypothetical question. It's important to note that aside from the most liquid domains (and even then there are surprises), nobody knows what the end price of a domain listed on auction will be ahead of time.
 
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What no one has mentioned so far is artificially increasing the value of your domains via shill bidding.

Maybe nobody specifically mentioned it because it's the entire point of shill bidding! ;)

If it weren't for those concerns this topic wouldn't have existed in the first place.


There actually is a secondary reason for shill bidding on many domain auction platforms, and that's to track and/or keep a record of a domain auction. I'm thinking more than 50% of $69 NameJet bids (on domains with more than a handful of bids) fall into that category. But with the larger amounts in question here that really isn't the case.
 
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There actually is a secondary reason for shill bidding on many domain auction platforms, and that's to track and/or keep a record of a domain auction. I'm thinking more than 50% of $69 NameJet bids (on domains with more than a handful of bids) fall into that category. But with the larger amounts in question here that really isn't the case.

How is that shill bidding? You place a minimum fee backorder along with 100s of other people, that does not drive up the price. No reason to do it on your own auctions since you get a detailed auction report.
 
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How is that shill bidding? You place a minimum fee backorder along with 100s of other people, that does not drive up the price. No reason to do it on your own auctions since you get a detailed auction report.

lol .. part of the problem here is that there seems to be a few variant definitions of what a shill bid actually is (no need to quote me yours .. I'm just saying that irregardless as to whether yours is wrong or right .. there are differing versions .. lol)

To some a shill bid is a bid that is made without the intention of winning the domain. So by that definition a $69 bid would qualify.

I've also seen a couple of people warning of multiple $69 bids being withdrawn at the last minute so that someone is left on the hook paying the $69 who might not have had the intention of buying (just tracking). I have no idea if that is true though .. just that it's true that somebody was concerned about it. *IF* that were possible though, then yes a $69 later withdrawn bid could indeed have driven the price from $0 to $69 (logically speaking .. even if that does sound kinda weird saying it .. lol .. essentially artificially hyping up a domain that otherwise would never had sold)

ADDED: Also just by having more people at $69 you are adding to the "perceived" value. An auction with 100 x $69 bidders is going to have vstly more traffic and eyeballs than an auction with 2 x $69 bidders,
 
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Oliver Hoger said:
HI,

Sorry for delay i was traveling and cannot believe what has been said.

Everyone let me explain:

Winner888:
I have a automated bidding system that would backorder ALL the domains and bid last minute to grab bargains.
Its a script works via api would bid on all CVCV up to $2500-3000 i set daily limit on the patterns i would want to buy.

On slow days i got good deals on short domains i trade in
LLLL.com / CVCV.com / LL.com / LLL.com / NNNN.com / NNNNN.com / CCC.com etc...

I won allot of domains and a few of mine so this got closed down months ago already due to this..
Im trying to fix to be able to exclude all my domains.

Bids that hit reserve:
We do allot of next bid wins. Most of you don't know how this works.
My auctions have a reserve price. On the last day of the auction or in the last few hours
I see what the high bids are and then send namejet a list of domains ask to to set next bid wins.
So it is not that someone is bidding just under reserve.
I am lowering the reserve to just above the highest bid so that the next bid hits reserve and the domain will sell.
Just lowering reserve. Flippa has this same function built into their seller platform. You can reduce reserve any time.
Buyers are bidding the amount that they are willing to bid. I am not changing that.
I just lower reserve with next bid wins so that more domains sell.

Regarding MediaOptions:
I have done business with them for many years on the buyer’s side, seller’s side and as a broker.

Regarding HDKN:
I know HDKN and he is a big buyer of short domains, which is what I sell. I am not HDKN. I do not have access to HDKN account.
I sent him (and others) my featured listings.
All his bids and purchases are legitimate.
It has happened that I have bought some domains back from him in the past when I felt the prices were too low.

I'm sorry that I have caused so much problems and confusion. I never intended to do anything that would harm anyone.

Oliver.


Olvier, I am not making any accusations at all. I am asking because I find this a little baffling....

You say that you have an automated bidding system, assuming you had this custom made or you coded it yourself. Now, I'm not a programmer but I have on various occassion for various reasons been invloved with software development lifecycles...so I have some understanding of the process, what I find odd is that you say that you are working on a "fix" to be able to exclude all your domains... like I said, I am not a programmer but surely all this would entail is having a database of all your domains that the bidding system would call upon before bidding and then omit itself from bidding on domains in this database. I would imagine that is not a difficult function to add, or am I missing something here? (perhaps a developer/programmer here could clarify this for us?) - I'm sure that you fully understood that bidding on your own domains is a problem and not a small one, I would have thought that knowing fully well what the implications are of biding on your own domains.. you would have resloved this "bug" before you even went live with your automated bidding system?. It's almost like Porsche releasing a new model in their range that looks awesome and peformes like a beast but the brakes dont work yet they release it anway saying..."we will sort the brake problems out soon". :xf.confused:

@Oliver Hoger - Would appreciate your views on this....
 
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Did NameJet take action against Oliver's 'seek' account?
 
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