Bidding on your own names at NameJet...?

MediaOptions said:

This risk is the opportunity cost. I really am surprised nobody understands that!!!!!!

If i put xyz.com in auction and its about to sell for $10,000 and I bid $10,100 then i have made the decision that i rather have the domain name xyz.com than the $10,000 (minus auction commission). If I rather have $10,000 then i let someone else win.

Free market capitalism 101.

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But NameJet sends you back that $10,100 minus 10 to 15% big difference than me risking $10,000.

So just put a reserve.... or don't collude...

You are going off topic. This should only be about the Booth's scam.

A new topic in regards to shill bidding on your own no reserve auction could be started but most people will see it as shady.. there will always be the few that would do shady things to make a buck. Some get caught, some don't.

MediaOptions said:

This risk is the opportunity cost. I really am surprised nobody understands that!!!!!!

If i put xyz.com in auction and its about to sell for $10,000 and I bid $10,100 then i have made the decision that i rather have the domain name xyz.com than the $10,000 (minus auction commission). If I rather have $10,000 then i let someone else win.

Free market capitalism 101.

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Haris said:

Following @MediaOptions advice, I am going to bid on my auctions at NamePros

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as I said before.. NJ is most likely the only place where you can do this.
so I think this speaks for itself.. when comes to how wonderful a practice this is. (not)

MediaOptions said:

Again and for the last time, I am NOT supporting shill bidding. I'm supporting the IDEA of openly allowing owners to participate in auctions which have NO RESERVE. Everyone has a fair and equal shot at buying the asset. Where is the flaw?

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It is shill bidding, it's why it's against their TOS.

"Shill bidding happens when anyone—including family, friends, roommates, employees, or online connections—bids on an item with the intent to artificially increase its price or desirability."

"So what is shill bidding?

Let’s look first at the word, “shill.” Shill means basically to falsely advocate a position in attempts to entice others do follow that lead."

You can bid it up to your heart's desire, knowing you'll get it right back if it doesn't work out (minus the fees)

MediaOptions said:

Welcome to the free market! Yes, if you want something then you need to pay the price the market is asking. With each bid (regardless of who it is from) that price increases. That is the entire premise of an auction. Reserves and everything else just muck up the pure free market nature of an auction.

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Free markets mean free information. Information of collusion is hidden from me. That's why we have laws against it because it HURTS real competition and thus hurts the free market.

MediaOptions said:

Again and for the last time, I am NOT supporting shill bidding. I'm supporting the IDEA of openly allowing owners to participate in auctions which have NO RESERVE. Everyone has a fair and equal shot at buying the asset. Where is the flaw?

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You actually are supporting shill bidding, because the idea of a no reserve auction is so the buyers set the market price, not the sellers by bidding on their own domains and raising the domains to prices it wouldn't of without them participating...

Screen cap everything before it is edited, folks.

I have a feeling there is going to be a lot of walking back on this one.

MediaOptions said:

Again and for the last time, I am NOT supporting shill bidding. I'm supporting the IDEA of openly allowing owners to participate in auctions which have NO RESERVE. Everyone has a fair and equal shot at buying the asset. Where is the flaw?

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The problem is that you are not buying an asset from a 3rd party.

For the case owner buying the asset, he is just paying Price = Commission
For others it's Price = Selling Price

MediaOptions said:

If i put xyz.com in auction and its about to sell for $10,000 and I bid $10,100 then i have made the decision that i rather have the domain name xyz.com than the $10,000 (minus auction commission). If I rather have $10,000 then i let someone else win.

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If you didn't want to sell the domain for under $10k, you should have stated a $10k start or reserve price. This helps preserves the integrity of both the auction and auction house.

It seems to me you are only condoning this behavior because you are guilty of similar actions (bidding on your own auctions)

I'm hoping NJ is actually investigating this matter at this point and then I would like to see how they are going to handle sales in which the owners participated in their own auctions. This SHOULD get interesting.

hookbox said:

All this BS tells me is names that I ended up buying at Namejet for x,xxx I could have bought for xxx. What a crock of sh*t this is.

Nobody should be allowed to bid up their own names or shill bid for their pals. Period.

The bullsh*t in this industry never ceases to amaze me.

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Succinctly put. All the theories don't mean squat when you feel like you're being ripped off because information was held from you about the actual structure of the arrangement.

i would never use any auction site that allowed or was suspected of having the owner's bid on their own item/name...never!

JB Lions said:

What's the risk on bidding on your own domain? The money goes right back into your pocket, minus the fees.

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So if the seller can keep bidding the price to artificially high levels because the money would simply go back in his pocket less fees, why not risk it all? But the risk for the outsider bidder not knowing the actual arrangement overpaying is huge. How is that a free market?

xn--v4h.com said:

So if the seller can keep bidding the price to artificially high levels because the money would simply go back in his pocket less fees, why not risk it all? But the risk for the outsider bidder not knowing the actual arrangement overpaying is huge. How is that a free market?

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It's not. By every definition, it is not.

Shill bidder protecting a shill bidder.

Price manipulation by some of the biggest in the industry. Disgusting.

We all know it happens and we all know things much worse than this happen.
It takes guts to point out a wrong.. However... It takes much more guts to admit it.

This thread and the other about the $150k sale... just blows my mind.

No wonder noobies come in and start off on the wrong track, honesty is out the window.

andyboothsi said:

Namejet know the new owner and that the domains are not being sold by James or myself.

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@NameJetGM any update?
If the brothers have done nothing wrong I think it would be fair to say it asap, to limit damage to reputation or stop further accusations.

Ali said:

Whatever the case may be from each side (and whatever truth is revealed/proven), one thing that will always remain true is: Allowing domain owners to bid on their own auctions will break not only all that is moral about domain auctions (which is already a fine line), but the system in and of itself.

Let's be honest here, not everyone walks a moral high ground, most people have zero morals an are absolutely blinded by the "all mighty" dollar. The chance to increase their return would blind them and their intent will be purely based on increasing that value by bidding up their own auctions. It already happens, and to green light that behavior would be catastrophic and detrimental to our industry.

Our job as a community is to find these issues, mend them, and apply the appropriate actions to ensure the longevity, and integrity of our industry. If we lose sight of what is truly important, we all lose.

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In business, trust is #1.

MediaOptions said:

Again, NOT TRUE in a tax auction. In most tax auctions, the proceeds are use to pay off the tax liability plus interest and all remaining proceeds are returned to the owner.

Before I was in domaining, tax auctions were my number one investment. I participated in LOTS.

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As a seller, the moment you agree to a No Reserve or a Low Reserve or Any Reserve Auction, you basically are agreeing to put the Asset on the table, for that price point which you have agreed as Reserve. From that point, it is left to the market to drive its value.

The whole idea of putting a Reserve for a Reserve Auction is to make sure at what price point you are comfortable to sell it at the least.

The example on Tax Auction is inherently very different to the voluntary Domain Auction at Namejet or Flippa or Namepros, where the seller is not forced with the Auction!
In case of a lien, within tax auctions, it is basically imposed on the seller due to some sort of default.
"......A tax sale is the forced sale of property (usually real estate) by a governmental entity for unpaid taxes by the property's owner...." here

This is not a Forced Auction, hence they are not comparable!

Had it been a case where the Domain have expired or the owner had failed some liability, and now the owner of the Domain may lose the Domain due to default with payment or deadline of payment, then in that case the owner might get the opportunity to get it back by participating in the Forced Auction!

In early 2016 when I was bidding for 6N Chips at NJ, I was puzzled at @MediaOptions bidding on his own names. Now I know why he did because system allowed it. Sorry to say @NameJetGM , its very unethical.

MediaOptions said:

Again and for the last time, I am NOT supporting shill bidding. I'm supporting the IDEA of openly allowing owners to participate in auctions which have NO RESERVE. Everyone has a fair and equal shot at buying the asset. Where is the flaw?

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OK I can agree with this as long as I can see the owners sitting beside me. But the situation we have here is far from it. Understand you now.

LarryDomain said:

You are going off topic. This should only be about the Booth's scam.

A new topic in regards to shill bidding on your own no reserve auction could be started but most people will see it as shady.. there will always be the few that would do shady things to make a buck. Some get caught, some don't.

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Looks to me Andrew's finer points are way outside of what the Booths seem to be doing.