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interviews Never Split The Difference: An Interview with FBI Negotiator Chris Voss

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Life is a series of negotiations: whether you’re buying a car, asking for a raise at work or selling a domain name. So I picked up the book Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It figuring I could learn something.

The book outlined some eye opening negotiation principles from the co-author, Chris Voss, based on his career as an FBI hostage negotiator and award-winning teacher at prestigious business schools. Currently Chris is CEO of the Black Swan Group in Los Angeles.

Since reading the book I’ve applied some of Chris’ principles in various aspects of my personal life as well as in my domaining business. I’ve been amazed at how well they work.

After writing about the book in my blog post at DNgeek, I decided to ask for an interview. Chris was generous enough to give his time exclusively for NamePros readers. I tried to draw out information that applied to the unique circumstances of domain sales. Many of his responses surprised me.

Here’s what Chris had to say to my questions:

In your book you say that everything we’ve previously been taught about negotiation is wrong. That we are not rational negotiators and that compromise is the worst thing we can do. You say the real art of negotiation lies in mastering the intricacies of No, not Yes. That’s pretty revolutionary. To begin with, let me ask you why emotional intelligence is a better approach than the usual methods involving logic and reason?
Logic is like beauty. It’s entirely in the eye of the beholder. Logic and reason are the things that we construct after we’ve already made up our mind based on our gut instincts. If we make decisions based on what we care about then by definition decision making is an emotional process. Care is not the synonym for reason. Care is the synonym for emotion.

And one of the things we deeply care about in a negotiation is money, right?
Yes. My son [and business partner] often likes to say that price is one of the most emotional terms in the negotiation.

What kind of information do we want to acquire during the negotiation process?
You’re going to want to find out what their terms are. But what’s even more important is: what are the emotional definitions behind those terms? What does each term mean to them? You can use emotional meanings to sculpt the terms. You want to give them what is most emotionally valuable for them. Maybe you give them the same amount of money but you can change the emotional definitions of the deal through negotiation.

How do we obtain information about the client’s wants or needs when we’re communicating via email?
Here’s the first problem. Negotiating via email is like playing chess via email. Are you going to put your next seven chess moves in one email? Well, probably not.

But that’s the way most people want to negotiate in an email. They want to lay out their whole game plan and their chain of logic. What happens in that static communication is the reader gets a chance to look at where the email starts and where the email ends and they get to sit there and stare at it. Then if they don’t like where it ends they just move back, four or five moves, and take off in a different direction. So my first recommendation is to make one move at a time in an email.

So your advice is to slow the process down and move one step at a time?
Yes. A phrase that I’ve borrowed from a Federal judge is: “delaying to save time.”

So instead of laying out the “seven chess moves” in one email what would you say to the client?
I would send an email that says: What is the immortality here? What are you trying to accomplish? What would owning this domain name do for you? That would be a great email, those three questions. They are all driving at exactly the same point.

How can we get information about the customer’s wants and needs when we’re dealing with a broker?
Repetition of key questions is really important even though people hate to repeat their questions because their fear is that it will make them look stupid. But the important thing about the repetition of key questions is that if you ask a broker the same question enough times they’ll eventually go back to the person they are representing and say: “I’m being asked this question and I just want to make sure the answer I’ve been giving is good.”

You can’t tell the broker: “repeat this question word for word to your principle.” But if you make them answer it enough times then they’ll start to get worried about their answer. And as soon as they’re afraid that their answer may not be right they’ll go back to their client and check it. That’s how you get your question repeated to the client.

Why is straightforward and honest the best approach in a negotiation?
Lying always catches up with you. You can only lie for so long. It’s like taking cocaine. It keeps you awake and gives you energy, right? So why not take cocaine all the time? Well because it’s going to catch up with you and then you’re going to be dead.

Then how do we respond truthfully when someone asks “what’s the lowest amount you would accept?”
That’s an intentionally manipulative question. My response might be: “how am I supposed to answer that?” Or I might say: “are you making me an offer or just fishing for a price?”

How do we respond when someone says “I think my offer is fair”?
Nobody ever uses the term fair to justify their position if they have objective market criteria to back it up. For example, Donald Trump uses that all the time. He says “your criticisms of me are unfair.” Because he doesn’t have anything else to back it up. He just doesn’t like it. So fair is an arbitrary term just like beauty and value.

Do you think President-elect Trump uses emotional intelligence to his advantage?
I think he uses some aspects of it to his advantage. I think he’s a poster child for the aggressive negotiator with all its strengths and weaknesses.

We talk about the three different types of negotiators in my book, Never Split The Difference. In order to be the consummate negotiator you need to use aspects of all three negotiator types: The Assertive, The Accommodator and The Analyst.

You can go an awfully long way with just one of those types if you keep getting better and better at it. You just don’t get as far as you could have gotten using all three. For example, Donald Trump’s businesses are far flung either because he has ADHD when it comes to geography or he uses up his ability to make deals in any given location and he has to move on. I think if you look at his history it’s because he uses up his ability to make deals in any given location due to his assertive negotiation style.
 
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I used to negotiate much like he suggests -- AND LOST DEALS BECAUSE OF IT. I'm much smarter now.

If you go back and forth more than a couple of times in email over a domain name, I can tell you from experience that your next reply will be "thanks, but we've found a better deal". People want things fast, and you're kidding yourself if you think people are going to spend 10 days playing some game with you.

Decide on your price, reconsider if a lower offer comes in, and deal with it directly. Leave the used car sales tactics where they belong -- in a 1980's used car lot.
 
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Yes, that is exactly the point he was making about Donald Trump. He has burned his bridges by bargaining too aggressively.

The beauty of Voss' approach is that there are often other ways to make the other party feel happy and satisfied while simultaneously getting the best possible terms for the deal. Too often we assume we know what the other party wants so we don't ask. Instead we focus solely on price. Voss says there are many terms at play and our traditional approach is one dimensional.

In his book he gives examples of deals he and his students have negotiated when buying a shirt, asking for a raise, a reduction on rent or buying out a small business partner. In every case they got they terms they wanted by moving the discussion away from the price and focusing instead on the emotional needs of the other party in a non-threatening way.

For example, I'm sure there have been times in your life when you sold something for much less than you know you could have gotten for it. Simply because you felt like you were helping someone or doing the right thing etc. You didn't feel bullied or ripped off. You felt good about the deal. That is the kind of emotional negotiation that Voss advocates. It's an approach we resist because its non-traditional and illogical but in my experience (and others) it really yields profound results.
Keeping politics aside. Trump has made a fortune negotiating. More to be learned about negotiating by Trump than others that are attacking his success due to politics....
 
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Keeping politics aside. Trump has made a fortune negotiating. More to be learned about negotiating by Trump than others that are attacking his success due to politics....

You're joking, right?

Trump's "Mexico Deal": Total Failure
Trump's "Taiwan Call": Total Failure
Trump's "Get Romney Back" Deal: Total Failure
Trump's Casino Deal: Total Failure
Trump's Airline Deal: Total Failure
Trump's "Trump University" Deal:Total Failure
Trump's "Trump Vodka" Deal:Total Failure
Trump's "Carrier" Deal:Total Failure

Right now he can't even get a BAND to play at his inauguration. The author of hos book "Art of the Deal" came forward and called Trump "a fraud".

His fortune is from his inheritance, and most of it has been lost on his business failures.
 
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You're joking, right?

Trump's "Mexico Deal": Total Failure
Trump's "Taiwan Call": Total Failure
Trump's "Get Romney Back" Deal: Total Failure
Trump's Casino Deal: Total Failure
Trump's Airline Deal: Total Failure
Trump's "Trump University" Deal:Total Failure
Trump's "Trump Vodka" Deal:Total Failure
Trump's "Carrier" Deal:Total Failure

Right now he can't even get a BAND to play at his inauguration. The author of hos book "Art of the Deal" came forward and called Trump "a fraud".

His fortune is from his inheritance, and most of it has been lost on his business failures.
I guess some people can't keep politics out when "TRUMP" is mentioned..Best of luck to you....
 
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I guess some people can't keep politics out when "TRUMP" is mentioned..Best of luck to you....

I made no mention of politics. Those were BUSINESS deals, in direct response to your post.
 
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One thing I've found is some people, possibly because they know they are not good negotiators, simply won't negotiate.

Their first offer, even though they don't always say it, really is their best, take it or leave it offer.

As soon as you counter, even slightly higher, they back out.

The tricky part is working out which offers are opening offers, where they are willing to come up a lot, and which ones really are their best price.
 
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Someone just sent me this message via PM:

Just wanted to reach out and say thank you for your blog post on Never Split The Difference. I'm only 3 chapters into it, but I can already say this is the best negotiating book I've ever read. Tons of value... thanks again!
 
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Great work Keith... This truly gave domainers some valuable pointers to use while negotiating with clients :)
 
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Thanks for postiung that. I tended to think there were two types of negotiator. The guy who makes his final offer up front, and won't budge, and the guy who offers a nominal amount to see how low he can get you to sell. I hadn't thought about the analyst - I guess we need to convert the other two into analysts to get the maximum revenue.
 
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To make things simple... Don't negotiate too much if you can't walk away from a deal.
People like Mike Mann surely leave the table many times before to get those awesome final prices.
 
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I wouldnt reccomend asking a buyer these questions. Sounds very interogating.

Nice article!

"I would send an email that says: What is the immortality here? What are you trying to accomplish? What would owning this domain name do for you? That would be a great email, those three questions. They are all driving at exactly the same point."
Can understand about your feeling, that it has a interrogating feel to it!

If, you consider the authors background, it is probably a form that comes easy to him.
I sure wouldn't copy and paste those three questions. I might rewrite them to fit more my style.

Great summary @Keith DeBoer
Might even buy the "book"
 
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Someone just sent me this message via PM:

Just wanted to reach out and say thank you for your blog post on Never Split The Difference. I'm only 3 chapters into it, but I can already say this is the best negotiating book I've ever read. Tons of value... thanks again!


great now let him read next

"the art of the deal "
- no just joking that will tell you nothing ... but how great he is..

let him read :

Secrets of Power Negotiating: Inside Secrets from a Master Negotiator 18. November 2010
Roger Dawson

thats the only book you will ever need on that topic
 
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Nice interview.

Sounds like everyone should put this book on their holiday wishlist. Am I right @Keith DeBoer?
 
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Another vote for the Roger Dawson material as suggested by @frank-germany

The examples are based more in real world selling situations, where as the Chris Voss book some of the situations were difficult to translate into domain negotiation. Most all the books in my library on sales and negotiation focus on face to face or at a minimum on the phone, so doing deals by email is really a skill and not all the techniques translate well.
 
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Another vote for the Roger Dawson material as suggested by @frank-germany

The examples are based more in real world selling situations, where as the Chris Voss book some of the situations were difficult to translate into domain negotiation. Most all the books in my library on sales and negotiation focus on face to face or at a minimum on the phone, so doing deals by email is really a skill and not all the techniques translate well.


I have to update my recommendation:
this is better ( I guess )

 
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