discuss Domaining might be banned because IT is not FAIR.

rpg said:

You can suggest him to try these points with real estate people.

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Thank you. Conversation is done.

Domainers are located at the tipping point between global monopolistic oligarchies and the sharing economy.
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jul/17/postcapitalism-end-of-capitalism-begun
"But what is all this information worth? You won’t find an answer in the accounts: intellectual property is valued in modern accounting standards by guesswork. A study for the SAS Institute in 2013 found that, in order to put a value on data, neither the cost of gathering it, nor the market value or the future income from it could be adequately calculated. Only through a form of accounting that included non-economic benefits, and risks, could companies actually explain to their shareholders what their data was really worth. ..."
Translation: What's a domain worth? I'd say everybody should be happy that domainers sell domains, instead of big capital holding the thumb on it.
And
"... if a free market economy plus intellectual property leads to the “underutilisation of information”, then an economy based on the full utilisation of information cannot tolerate the free market or absolute intellectual property rights. The business models of all our modern digital giants are designed to prevent the abundance of information."
It depends on domainers keeping access to domains in the reach of the "ordinary" human.

That guy isn't serious is he? His complaint in that excerpt is how the world we know today was built lol. If everybody only used(/bought) what they needed and nothing more, we would never be anything more than nature.
The very existence of modern human world depends on the concepts of 'more' and 'less', 'rich' and 'poor'. It is thanks to this imbalance that we've achieved what we have today. If everyone was 'equal', money would not 'flow' because there would be no 'potential energy'. It would be like a river on perfectly flat ground, the water is stagnant because there is no lower level for it to flow down to.

There is an actual need for 'hoarders' in the modern human world, people buying/acquiring more than they need with the intent of reselling for a profit.

Bean said:

That guy isn't serious is he? His complaint in that excerpt is how the world we know today was built lol. If everybody only used(/bought) what they needed and nothing more, we would never be anything more than nature.
The very existence of modern human world depends on the concepts of 'more' and 'less', 'rich' and 'poor'. It is thanks to this imbalance that we've achieved what we have today. If everyone was 'equal', money would not 'flow' because there would be no 'potential energy'. It would be like a river on perfectly flat ground, the water is stagnant because there is no lower level for it to flow down to.

There is an actual need for 'hoarders' in the modern human world, people buying/acquiring more than they need with the intent of reselling for a profit.

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And better this way than bureaucratic determination of who is more equal than others...

So this person thinks real estate is unfair, business is unfair, property rights are unfair, the free market is unfair, etc. The domain industry is one of the fairest and most transparent industries out there. Obviously this person wants to return to the feudal system, after all the massive job creation engine of the information age is "unfair."

I can understand someone thinking that way.

If you have a business called "Black Bag" and you can't get the domain because its already registered, but unused and the owner is asking a crazy price for it, it can be frustrating. It has a direct impact on the business because you can't have a perfect domain. You have to use a second option. Now before choosing a business name or for a promotion or a product, you have to make sure the domain is available first.

Similar situation can't happen in any other sector. Only in virtual world that is possible. Physically, we have businesses with the same name in different cities. But online, there is only one [black/bag/com]

This could not happen in a real estate world. I don't see people buying thousands of houses and hold them for years trying to resell them way overpriced (1000 times the value) in a neighborhood where all other houses are sold low.

The domainer behavior is a bit cruel. We are buying something unique for no reason else than making bank. It is ok to make money. But socially is it bad.

I can understand that. I can understand people not liking that kind of activity.

All a matter of perception. I bet there's plenty of businesses that are actually thankful the name was reserved and secured by someone for years who is willing to sell to the right owner who will appreciate the true potential of the name. Would they rather it be acquired and developed by another rinky-dink business/blog or competitor, like you'll have a better chance of getting it then? People should consider themself lucky the name is available to be purchased in the first place.

tomcarl said:

All a matter of perception. I bet there's plenty of businesses that are actually thankful the name was reserved and secured by someone for years who is willing to sell to the right owner who will appreciate the true potential of the name. Would they rather it be acquired and developed by another rinky-dink business/blog or competitor, like you'll have a better chance of getting it then? People should consider yourself lucky the name is available to be purchased in the first place.

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Well said.

DoumB21 said:

I can understand someone thinking that way.

If you have a business called "Black Bag" and you can't get the domain because its already registered, but unused and the owner is asking a crazy price for it, it can be frustrating.

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I somewhat agree, but "crazy price" is all relative. The complainer on facebook posted this:

why should I or any other startup business have to come up with hundreds or even thousands of dollars to buy a decent domain

In this case, with this particular person, I'd like to call myself a "domain preserver". Obviously if someone is going to complain over a few hundred dollars to acquire a name, when an actual business usually involves thousands of dollars to startup (inventory, web design, trademarks, seo, advertising, etc), and they're complaining over a few hundred dollars, I don't think they were meant to have the name in the first place, and I just did someone out there a service by not letting them have it. They likely only had an idea on a whim and whimsical ideas don't equal entitlement.

This is funny, plenty of guys really think that if domainers aka speculators aka cybersquatters didn't exist - they would be able to register the domains of their dreams for regfee. Hell no, they would have fewer options available actually.

The dudes opinion does matter. Even I was in a similar mindset at a certain point in time, but we learn to adapt to the rules of the world we live in. As long as it's legal (like many other industries are) we're not doing anything wrong.

No law will be implemented to the contrary because there's taxes being paid on any income and profit made. There is clearly a market for this product, proven by the demand for it in the global marketplace.

Worse case scenario, if you cannot afford the domain name you want, or you feel it's unfairly priced, then you should settle for something hand registered or something within your budget (it's really that simple). If it does not belong to you, you don't have any say over it.

I practically awoke to this industry within the last year, which is decades after domains were first sold, and subsequently resold many times over for lots of cash - but not even I can say that it's "unfair" because there are millions of individuals across the globe that may never realize let alone partake in this opportunity for whatever reason (be it lack of resources, lack of knowledge, ignorance, disinterest, etc.).

Perhaps, the very guy that offered and paid him the $6500, is the guy (figuratively speaking, a domainer) he's mad at - which makes him an important link in the chain he is unhappy with.

At the end of the day, one person takes a $6500 sale and sees it as a strike of luck, another takes it and sees a lucrative investment and/or income opportunity in a constantly growing industry - and that's what makes us all (seven billion or so) defferent from one another, right?

This is the same practice with many commodities (concert tickets, housing, stamps, rare coins, ect.) where there is a limited supply and there is demand, people will "stash" or stock up on something and wait til the price is right to sell at a profit. Just standard business in my eyes. Whether I'm buying a domain for the intent or reselling or a product. It's just how the world works.

I think Godaddy should be banned for charging this Business Expert only $10 for a domain registration. lol

Your attitude in life determines your altitude in life. Why most people are poor in this world (at least the western world - with opportunities all over) because they have a poor mentality.

What does poor stand for?

P = passing
O = over
O = opportunities
R = repeatedly

And they won't act upon great opportunities in life. What does ACT stand for?

A= action
C= changes
T= things

So because they won't act they will stay poor and I don't mean just financially but mostly importantly in their mind. Their attitude is negative.

Oh I am disoppointed that why didn't I come across domaining in late 90's or early 2000's when guys like Frank and Kevin and Rick snapped all the best names and left us not much lol. It is only negative attitude if we think like that and not do something and act. If we dwell on such attitudes then nothing good will come in our lives. We will miss out on opportunities that can be staring at us right in front of our faces. I believe this guy is probably in the same situation described above.

There are still plenty of opportunities to make a million dollars. Now it doesn't have to be just through top notch domains. Domaining can still lead to plenty of great opportunities which can make millions. It is all in the mind set and the attitude.

I have a 3 acre vacant lot in front of my house and it has been vacant for many years, no construction and not being used for any purpose. So what does that mean the owner should sell the lot for $10.

Attitude will determine altitude. I think this guy and probably a lot of us should always make sure we are getting a regular check up from the neck up.

dordomai said:

Another thing is: It's not true that all domains are taken. If your budget is $10 then you will get a $10 domain name. You can still start a website with a somewhat memorable name.

There are established alternatives like .biz, .net, .org, .info. If you don't want to spend more than $10 these are good enough.

If you want .com AND you want premium then it will be expensive and all names will be taken.

What i also find very strange is that it seems that people in communist countries like China seem to have a more relaxed attitude towards domain trading while people living in a capitalist society are the ones who complain about it most often.

Either ban free markets entirely or don't but don't apply idealistic ideas selectively.

I am sure that capitalism has some drawbacks as well, no system is perfect but before I worry about domaining I would worry about hundreds other things first.

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Even for 10 dollars, you can sometimes get a good domain at auctions for dropping names. It all depends on what you are looking for, and where you are looking.

Its not hoarding or squatting if there's millions upon millions of names that are free to register. The entire argument is BS. Its not like there's a finite amount of domains. There is no shortage and there will never be a shortage.

Now if he wants a vanity domain, like x.com he will have to pay accordingly. Tough cheese LOL

Kate said:

This is funny, plenty of guys really think that if domainers aka speculators aka cybersquatters didn't exist - they would be able to register the domains of their dreams for regfee. Hell no, they would have fewer options available actually.

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The majority of domains are not active and not registered by domainers. This tells me that without domainers good names would still be taken.

DoumB21 said:

This could not happen in a real estate world. I don't see people buying thousands of houses and hold them for years trying to resell them way overpriced (1000 times the value) in a neighborhood where all other houses are sold low.

The domainer behavior is a bit cruel. We are buying something unique for no reason else than making bank. It is ok to make money. But socially is it bad.

I can understand that. I can understand people not liking that kind of activity.

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The concept of domaining is absolutely the same as the real estate industry. You have real estate investors who buy up properties and resell it for profit or rent them out for profit. Domainers do the same thing. We resell for profit.

But I do agree that society might not like what the domaining industry does. I think people have a better view of the real estate industry because a building is a physical thing that they can see and feel, so they can associate it with value. On the other hand, domain names are not physical, so it is hard for people to understand that there is anything of worth there.

Was he naked?

Yes, because, following his reasoning clothing companies (which produce clothing at very low cost, sell high, and bank absurd profits) are the paragon of extortion. In fact, he should get rid of all electronics, and basically stop contact with any business.

Will domaining be banned? Perhaps, in a world where clothing is forbidden, there are no businesses and we are set back to the Stone Age.

If domaining is banned I predict their will be lower volume of sales but much higher average prices.
But that's never going to happen, may be regulated someday though.

They can't do it. Simply said, there are too many loopholes and no real justification legally...especially with nGTLDs giving businesses even more options.

I'm pretty sure that this has been discussed for some time now and nGTLDs are the result of that discussion, not banning the domaining industry.

Small business owners and website developers who just want a domain for their site refuse to accept the real estate analogy but there is a comparison. Real estate investors & companies buy existing apartment and condo properties and renovate them or buy available land to develop into condo complexes or hotel properties. Here in West Palm Beach, a Residence Inn and a Hilton opened within the last year opened - $150-$200 a night which for a one-week stay is more than your average domain sale at SEDO. Some friends of ours lived in a nearby apartment complex which was bought out by an out-of-state investor. He did some renovations but jacked up the rent some 40%. They moved out. We see restaurants and stores in the downtown area open and close on a regular basis because the rents are so high (five figures monthly seems to be normal). So who is charging more outrageous prices - real estate owners or domain investors?

There are so many answers to his points I just don't feel like typing them all

Dominic Belley said:

I can understand someone thinking that way.

If you have a business called "Black Bag" and you can't get the domain because its already registered, but unused and the owner is asking a crazy price for it, it can be frustrating. It has a direct impact on the business because you can't have a perfect domain. You have to use a second option. Now before choosing a business name or for a promotion or a product, you have to make sure the domain is available first.

Similar situation can't happen in any other sector. Only in virtual world that is possible. Physically, we have businesses with the same name in different cities. But online, there is only one [black/bag/com]

This could not happen in a real estate world. I don't see people buying thousands of houses and hold them for years trying to resell them way overpriced (1000 times the value) in a neighborhood where all other houses are sold low.

The domainer behavior is a bit cruel. We are buying something unique for no reason else than making bank. It is ok to make money. But socially is it bad.

I can understand that. I can understand people not liking that kind of activity.

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"This could not happen in a real estate world. I don't see people buying thousands of houses and hold them for years trying to resell them way overpriced (1000 times the value) in a neighborhood where all other houses are sold low."

If this is true indeed in reality, the lack of that situation is not caused by high morality of real estate people. The market is that one which determines which profitable selling options are available.

"The domainer behavior is a bit cruel. We are buying something unique for no reason else than making bank. It is ok to make money. But socially is it bad."

In many other markets there are unique things as well. For example, some house in some region, town or part of the town (that is local market) can be totaly unique. And someone will buy it only to sell it in 5-10 years for much bigger price. So there's is no any difference to domain market. I don't think that house seller is cruel!

I don't think that making money is bad. I think it is neutral (as money is neutral as well) - in (almost) every business including domain flipping.

"I can understand that. I can understand people not liking that kind of activity."

I can understand that as well, and would like that to be different in the future. But, in my opinion, some people don't like that because of their lack of knowledge and proper information about domain (and any other) market basics (and often they don't understand the real domain value for them and their business).

tomcarl said:

All a matter of perception. I bet there's plenty of businesses that are actually thankful the name was reserved and secured by someone for years who is willing to sell to the right owner who will appreciate the true potential of the name. Would they rather it be acquired and developed by another rinky-dink business/blog or competitor, like you'll have a better chance of getting it then? People should consider themself lucky the name is available to be purchased in the first place.

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I agree that many businesses are thankful the name was reserved for them. But in many cases they will be forced to pay much bigger price, because the domainers better understand domain value and have much better sales skills than most of other professions. So I am not sure (statistically) what is better for domain buyers...?