Help! Former Domain Name Owner Threatening Legal Action. Need Advice.

First rule of Domaining don't take legal advice from someone who is not a lawyer.

Email someone like JohnBerryHill, or Stevan Lieberman

You did nothing wrong by giving it back, the juice is not worth the squeeze, and like I tell people all the time, a UDRP is never a given, someone can go straight to court under the ACPA, It's easier for a lawyer like @Kate pointed out. So the value proposition is in the negative. This is not like owning a two letter .com and a corporate bully trying to steal from you, this is a name you capped at $895 that could cost you thousands of dollars.

Kate said:

Of course, why not ? Since he's a lawyer he could even file the case himself. Cost: filing fee + some spare time. Then he can file for monetary damages. Provided that you live in the US, the judgment against you is enforceable.
Living abroad ? Expect to be arraigned at the airport if you ever visit the US and have defaulted on the judgment.

That doesn't mean they are not concerned about their name and reputation.

Ok, so this your motive. You could just say sorry, I am domain speculator, I was not targeting you in particular etc.

But I think you did the right thing. Because it's harder to sell a name when they are legal claims or TM issues against it.
And I think some of the comments here are irresponsible. This is not a game. Legal threats should never be underestimated. Pick your battles wisely.

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If they were concerned enough, they must have renewed when registrars used to send frequent emails for it.

Secondly, even if they are concerned, that does not make their threatening legal in any manner.

Being lawyer also doesn't assure their illegal claim of owning the domain after the OP has acquired it through proper procedure.

There are lawyers out there that live for shit like this. He is foaming at the mouth like a rabid dog right now hoping you'll fight. You will never beat a lawyer that has himself on retainer. It costs him nothing but time.

calm down people
he will give it to the lawyer

I hate it as much as many of you
so what

move on

Kate said:

But I think you did the right thing. Because it's harder to sell a name when they are legal claims or TM issues against it.
And I think some of the comments here are irresponsible. This is not a game. Legal threats should never be underestimated. Pick your battles wisely.

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What if I email you about one of your domains, claim to be a lawyer, claim that I used to own the domain you are holding for ransom, threaten you with legal action, will you do the right thing and push the domain to my account? There's a legal claim on it now so it will be hard to sell, right? This really isn't a game so don't fall for scams. With all due respect.

The advice I never see in threads like this is to make yourself judgement proof BEFORE you have a problem. Spend the money to have an attorney structure you life in a way that shelters your income and assets before you have a problem. Then it won't matter if you have a business problem, a slip and fall in your driveway, or anything else.

Limited liability companies, Corporations, Trusts, etc. are all designed to do this (at least in the USA) and well understood by lawyers. Since most people never bother, it takes very little effort to make yourself much harder to attack. Done properly you don't have to care when a clown like this starts making threats.

kmnsh said:

If they were concerned enough, they must have renewed when registrars used to send frequent emails for it.

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Sure, but they could as well have complained about a domain they never registered then dropped. For instance a domain name similar to theirs.

Haris100 said:

What if I email you about one of your domains, claim to be a lawyer, claim that I used to own the domain you are holding for ransom, threaten you with legal action, will you do the right thing and push the domain to my account? There's a legal claim on it now so it will be hard to sell, right? This really isn't a game so don't fall for scams. With all due respect.

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It depends on the name. If the name is valuable and the other party has no demonstrable rights then I would stand my ground.
But AFAIK the complainant does not just claim to be a lawyer: he is a lawyer.
Basically the question you would be asked in UDRP is do you have legitimate interests in the domain name. The OP does not run a law firm and is not commonly known by <name + law.com>. The only defense he can present is that he is a domainer and hopes to sell the name to another party going by the same name. I think this is too little to qualify as bona fide usage for UDRP purposes.

And I don't think this is a big loss anyway because there are not hundreds of potential buyers right. What was the likelihood of a sale ?

I think we all have bought rotten domains at some point. When you realize you hold a name that is problematic and not going to sell anyway - drop it and move on.
If you really want to fight a lawyer then you need a lawyer. Trying to beat a lawyer at his own game is foolish. And the stakes do not justify it. Good riddance, don't look back.

Disclaimer: this is not legal advice.

Hopefully you verified that this is indeed the person that was the previous owner of the domain. Depending on the level of verification you received, I would have probably asked him to send me a certified letter in the mail - something more official.

I'm not a lawyer but receiving e-mail like this is unacceptable IMO when someone is threatening legal actions against you.

There are way too many scammers out there to not do it any other way. This type of name is definitely not worth fighting most likely but you still need to make sure you verified that they are who they say they are, which I'm sure you already did.

hookbox said:

There are lawyers out there that live for sh*t like this. He is foaming at the mouth like a rabid dog right now hoping you'll fight. You will never beat a lawyer that has himself on retainer. It costs him nothing but time.

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E

pchip said:

Hopefully you verified that this is indeed the person that was the previous owner of the domain. Depending on the level of verification you received, I would have probably asked him to send me a certified letter in the mail - something more official.

I'm not a lawyer but receiving e-mail like this is unacceptable IMO when someone is threatening legal actions against you.

There are way too many scammers out there to not do it any other way. This type of name is definitely not worth fighting most likely but you still need to make sure you verified that they are who they say they are, which I'm sure you already did.

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That's true, but scammers are usually after valuable names, not a name with such a limited reach.

Haris100 said:

as far as I know, you won't have to go get a lawyer and fight for a domain in court, once he files a UDRP or lodge some case against you, only then give the domain back to him!

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I agree with you @Haris100 he shouldn't give himthe domain...untill he really files an UDRP..

It looks that the lawyer(i don't think so he's a lawyer though) is just spamming him..frightening him to get the domain.

Best would be..just don't reply back
...ignore the case..if he really serious..he will definitely give him some sort of "Legal Notice"...not just a mere casual threatening email

Wow, thanks everyone for your comments and taking the time to weigh in here. Really wide range of opinions. I tend to agree with the more conservative opinions and approaches, although I do see both sides. To answer one common question that's been coming up, I do believe this individual is who he claims to be, and is the former owner of this domain name. His e-mail address is from the law firm that he works at. Also, from Archive.org, I can see his bio page as recently as Dec 2015 from the domain name he is trying to get back. So I believe he's the real deal...another reason why I'm agreeing to return the domain name to him.

I replied to him this morning asking for his GD account number and e-mail address associated with this account so I can transfer the name. He replied back promptly with this info. Turns out, his GD account number is not valid, and the e-mail address he provided is from the domain which I have (i.e. the one he is trying to get back!). If he can't get me correct information, I can't transfer it back to him. Ha, ha. The irony.

steely said:

To answer one common question that's been coming up, I do believe this individual is who he claims to be, and is the former owner of this domain name. His e-mail address is from the law firm that he works at. .

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While he's a lawyer and applying bullying tactics to scare you into submission, I would just give him the domain back and be done with it. Like others have commented, not worth the hassle IMO for a name such as this.

He's a lawyer so his cost to file a lawsuit against you are minimal I would think. Nothing I would want to get my name dragged into over a non-generic type domain.

Sounds like you're heading in the right direction if you can get he gets you the correct Godaddy information for the transfer.

Lawyers are bullies by nature and bluffing is a basic part of their profession. You can contact any legal group and they will send a threatening letter to anybody about any subject and try to intimidate them into giving in to whatever you desire. They send these threatening letters because it is the only thing they can do when they have no legal merit to stand on. They just say, "Well, it's worth a try, these letters scare some people into giving in"

This lawyer lied when he said that you obtained this domain illegally. I hate to see you give in because then this sets a legal precedence in the lawyers mind and he will be giving other lawyers advice to do the same thing.

@Kate, OP mentioned that he was the former owner of domain so he actually failed/forgot to renew.

Plus, OP also mentioned that there are 3-4 end users seem to own similar domains, doesn't look like the person would have sent similar threatening emails to them also. But, OP seems to get trapped easily, (may be others too)?

I don't see any possibility yet to transfer/push him the domain being the legal owner of domain now.

You can always join the fight and put a link on from rick's www.hallofshame.com

kmnsh said:

@Kate, OP mentioned that he was the former owner of domain so he actually failed/forgot to renew.

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I know, I know...
Just because he dropped the ball doesn't mean he has relinquished all rights.

kmnsh said:

Plus, OP also mentioned that there are 3-4 end users seem to own similar domains, doesn't look like the person would have sent similar threatening emails to them also. But, OP seems to get trapped easily, (may be others too)?

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It depends on how the name would have been used. The other possible end users would probably have bought the domain for their law practice, not to park it for sale. Here, the lawyer is seeing that somebody who isn't a lawyer is 'squatting' on his former name for no legitimate reason. It's two different scenarios really.

Haris100 said:

as far as I know, you won't have to go get a lawyer and fight for a domain in court, once he files a UDRP or lodge some case against you, only then give the domain back to him!

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I agree with Haris. You should wait before taking any action

I had a very similar situation a few years back with a very big San Francisco law firm. They owned something like keyword+Lawfirm.com and I owned keyword+Law.com Mine sounded much better. I picked it up on the drop. They sent me a threatening email wishing for immediate transfer. I told them I am more then happy to let our lawyers handle this as I am not prepared to relinquish my rights to the name. (never parked) I also told them, while I will not comply, and explained to them why in legal terms, I was willing to consider a mutually amicable offer to deal with this in the lease time and monetary consuming manner. i.e Pay me without asking for it.

Well, it worked. They made an offer and I had the gall to counter. Sold it to them for a couple x,xxx of course they drafted their email saying they are not acknowledging my rights but simply expediting transfer etc in true lawyer fashion. Time is money leverage. This isn't legal advice and it's always best to consult an actual IP lawyer. If you don't have experience dealing with situations like this, it's not worth the risk imo.

btw
Do not ignore any email from a lawyer. The first email they sent me was littered with spelling errors. I almost think they wanted me to ignore it which I did for a day or two. But they were legit and got back..

Good luck.

BostonDomainer said:

I had a very similar situation a few years back with a very big San Francisco law firm. They owned something like keyword+Lawfirm.com and I owned keyword+Law.com Mine sounded much better. I picked it up on the drop. They sent me a threatening email wishing for immediate transfer. I told them I am more then happy to let our lawyers handle this as I am not prepared to relinquish my rights to the name. (never parked) I also told them, while I will not comply, and explained to them why in legal terms, I was willing to consider a mutually amicable offer to deal with this in the lease time and monetary consuming manner. i.e Pay me without asking for it.

Well, it worked. They made an offer and I had the gall to counter. Sold it to them for a couple x,xxx of course they drafted their email saying they are not acknowledging my rights but simply expediting transfer etc in true lawyer fashion. Time is money leverage. This isn't legal advice and it's always best to consult an actual IP lawyer. If you don't have experience dealing with situations like this, it's not worth the risk imo.

btw
Do not ignore any email from a lawyer. The first email they sent me was littered with spelling errors. I almost think they wanted me to ignore it which I did for a day or two. But they were legit and got back..

Good luck.

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Why did you spill the beans? Now I am angry at you lol. This what I wanted to do had the op decide to sell the domain name to me and I would have smiled to the bank. I own a domain and almost gave Amanzon for free but the idiot they sent to get the domain name threatened me by saying he warns I refrain from registering domains with Amazon trademark. I was so infuriated and told them I am no longer interested in giving them the domain name. Of course, they picked a related domain name with Amazon in it around that time as a defense.

When you look at they ones that they bought from BuyDomains, mine is well above all the names but they resolve not to pay a dime for it. lol...

I wouldnt give in if its a "generic" last name such as smith or jones or something common.

If its a unique last name, then its different, but you did nothing wrong and cant be liable for another company not taking care of their assets.

Fight fire with fire. He may be a lawyer, but you still have rights and have done nothing wrong. Dont be bullied.

jamesosix said:

I wouldnt give in if its a "generic" last name such as smith or jones or something common.

If its a unique last name, then its different, but you did nothing wrong and cant be liable for another company not taking care of their assets.

Fight fire with fire. He may be a lawyer, but you still have rights and have done nothing wrong. Dont be bullied.

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He already said that it's not a unique name.

Haris100 said:

He already said that it's not a unique name.

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Ahh did not read the whole thread.

In that case, dont give into him.

steely said:

Hi domain friends. I picked up a law domain name (Last Name + Law .com) in a GoDaddy Closeout in April 2016. It's been parked with Voodoo since then with a For Sale sign. I just got a disturbing e-mail from apparently the former owner. Here are some excepts in italics:


You have unlawfully retained and are now holding for ransom my domain name, ********law.com, which has injured my business and is in violation of the Anti-Cybersquatting Consumer Protection Act of 1999 (ACPA), which carries substantial penalties, including but not limited to monetary damages and attorney fees.

If you do not agree to return my domain name to me within 48 hours of today, I will have no option other than to commence legal action against you, and potentially others associated with you, without further notice.


I have to admit, I'm worried. Is this person bluffing, or could they really take legal action against me? If the worst they can do is file a UDRP, I'm less worried. Can they do anything more? Could I be arrested? I know that may sound like a ridiculous question, but......what's the answer?

Also, if this individual was to file a UDRP, what happens if I lose? How is the domain transferred away? Is it simply removed from my account, or do I need to then perform a transfer?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

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He shouldn't have let it expire. He'll have to pay you to get the domain back no matter what. Reply with this.

"I understand your concern. But here's my point.
1) You owned the domain name and you let it expire. Its your fault
2) Godaddy lists the domain name in closeout auctions and I paid them for the domain. You might want to pursue your case against them. as they sold it to me.
3) Now I am the rightful owner of the domain and its my property."

DO not make an offer till he asks you to.

I always told people who tell me thats its "their" domain:
"so why do you call me?"

Kate said:

Of course, why not ? Since he's a lawyer he could even file the case himself. Cost: filing fee + some spare time. Then he can file for monetary damages. Provided that you live in the US, the judgment against you is enforceable.
Living abroad ? Expect to be arraigned at the airport if you ever visit the US and have defaulted on the judgment.

That doesn't mean they are not concerned about their name and reputation.

Ok, so this your motive. You could just say sorry, I am domain speculator, I was not targeting you in particular etc.

But I think you did the right thing. Because it's harder to sell a name when they are legal claims or TM issues against it.
And I think some of the comments here are irresponsible. This is not a game. Legal threats should never be underestimated. Pick your battles wisely.

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@Kate the type of "scared" advice you are giving to another domain investor, may mean you are not a good domain investor yourself? In this business, you have to be willing to defend your investments, otherwise, the person is in the wrong profession. People would always attempt to sue you for just about anything, even if they have no strong defense! This is why there are records of many failed UDRPs where complainants loss!
If OP brought this matter to the NP community, it is apparent he is concerned about the legal threats and has not underestimated the scandalous complainant. I am not surprised you found no fault based on the fact the former owner is at fault for not renewing his ownership rights to the domain name in question.

Ask yourself, if you bought a used car or house or any other property at an auction, can the former owner come and claim the property back from you? Sure, a scandalous former owner would probably attend to defraud new owner if they think they can get away with it. But a legit former owner would attempt to buy the property back if their business or livelihood depends on it.

That said, your argument in defense of this former domain owner (looser) makes no sense IMO. The right thing for the person to do, is to make an offer to buy the domain name back (for under $900 only) and not threatening the new owner with legal action. Sending a threatening email to a new owner of an expired domain name (without TM) is a scam.

Even a real TM owner of a domain name they mistakenly let expire, would still reach out and try to buy the domain name back from the new owner at a fair price. It is usually when the new owner is asking for a crazy-high price that is unaffordable, that the former owner whose business depends on the name and with an active trademark, would consider exploring legal remedies such as UDRP.

OP @steely I am willing to pay you $40 for this domain name and fight out this battle. At least this way, you recoup your capital investment and some profit. Pls, do we have a deal and how soon can you push the domain asset to my GD account?