Help NamePros Decide on Community-Driven Moderation

Paul Buonopane said:

Part of the idea here is that the community would have more of a say in shaping its own standards.

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That is a nice idea but wouldn't it need some sort of meta-level to observe and maybe discusss the emering standards? And would that add work where the objective is to reduce work?

I have never used the dislike button - seems childish and spiteful and I don't like it. Until recently I only ever reported spam and threats or abuse, but after I was advised to report badly off-topic posts I started that.

Maybe as others suggest some more fine-grained report options would be good.

Thanks and credit to NP for opening up discussion of this.

Shane Bellone said:

I don't think the like/dislike system would work unless there are repercussions for indiscriminately disliking posts.

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Totally agree.

People like and dislike for various reasons. I don’t think it would work.

Add one more button titled SPAM beside Report. In case Spam button is hit, the post is hidden and goes for moderation automatically.

Report button should work as it does now.

New members should not be able to see Spam button.

Shouldn't monitoring the forum be the first requirement of the Moderators?
or has that changed?
I understand not ALL the mods are paid, but if you volunteer to do a job,
shouldn't you do it?

The advancement of their own sites/clubs/blogs etc should NOT take a back seat to the forum
as they are in the moderator position to moderate the forum,
not to regulate or propel their own dealings

The report system has always worked fine. When it's payed attention to!
Most that I report are removed or dealt with in a fairly reasonable amount of time.

- the occasional "Well, we'll watch and see how it goes" comment is sometimes a response I get
and this is AFTER duplicate spam posts. Not sure what they are holding out for when I get
that message, we both know where it's headed.

Doesn't matter if the member is a Paid member or not, if they SPAM, toss them out
[you can see the warnings do not help] and having a Business account should not come
with the ability to post the same dribble everywhere. In every thread...and it be "ok'd" by staff
it's pathetic that this happens by paid members, NP isin't that hard up for money
so why not clean out the "Paying to troll" shit?

and really not sure why the reported spam is not always removed, even after
the accounts are closed - the spam crap is still here.
I understand it affects your "organic" traffic, or whatever that whole speech was
but come on it's spam and it's ALL OVER!!
If a member acct is closed, his spam should be removed, if duplicate threads are made
then they should also be removed.not just closed..

And Mods don't have to read every post and shouldn't be expected to, bad posts and spam are obvious...
most of the forum members pick up on them right away and a report goes in.
but after the members 5th or 6th post in a row [for example], come on and get to it - shouldn't take
5 reports and 10 more posts to be seen.
Whomever is on at the time ANY report goes in should take a look, and help out.
Should have stayed that way, instead it's all about "not my section" stuff.

But the comment about moderators reading every post, is just simply silly,
it's clear there ain't NO ONE reading ANY post, never mind every post.

Eric Lyon said:

Here are a few ideas to get you started:

1. After a post receives __ dislikes, it is automatically hidden and requires that a member click an "unhide" button to view it.
   • Once hidden, it would not appear in New Posts or other places on the site.
   • If the post is the first post of a thread, the entire thread is hidden in this manner.
2. Same as #1, but using the Report feature.
3. Similar to #1, except dislikes will be weighted based on your NamePros account level. For instance, a dislike from a VIP member would be worth as many as 5 dislikes from a new member.
4. Similar to #1, except dislikes will be weighted based on your NamePros account age. For instance, a dislike from a member who signed up in 2003 would be worth as many as 12 dislikes from someone who signed up today.
5. There are many other ways this can be done, and we want to hear the way you think is best.

.

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Here are my thoughts on these options:

1. If it is set to a hard figure this will be open to abuse. There are many occasions when a lot of people dislike a post. This does not mean the post is not valid. I personally would avoid this as a sole method.
2. Not sure I understand fully. Would you have a button that would increase a tally of how many dislikes a post had and these show in the mod section? If so it would be beneficial to be able to mark a post as OK otherwise older threads can naturally bubble to the top of the list and will distort the list. You could always reset the flag that specifies the post is OK if it is edited.
3. As a singular idea I think this is the better from the list. People who pay for the upper account levels (or who have been trusted with them) will be quite protective over them. But again not ideal as a sole solution.
   
4. Account age is not something that should be solely used. I modded here some time ago and there were accounts that were hacked/sold. By using age it would open a potential market in Namepros accounts that have a level of immunity to spamming.

Personally I would go with a mixture of 3 and 4 however. I would also take it 1 step further and consider the level of the people that are reporting/disliking the post. The higher the level and longer the users account has been active the higher the weight.

This would still require a level of moderation to ensure that the features are not being abused to pick on people. For example it would be beneficial to monitor if someone starts to have a high level of disliked posts and if they are from the same members. A mod could then check the validity of those reports. If they are obviously false then infractions could go towards the reporters depending on the seriousness. It would also require a bit of tweaking to ensure that the weighting was set correctly.

Thanks for all the great feedback everyone. We're still carefully thinking it all through.

Peter said:

2. Not sure I understand fully.

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The idea behind #2 is that instead of counting Dislikes, it would count the number of Reports that a particular post/thread receives and base its action on how many Reports were received.

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Update on 4/8/2016: Similar thread and suggestion.

Re the referenced thread on Eric's last post. To be fair the name pros system if anything like it was a few years back (I was a mod back in the day) is actually very good at catching spam and possible problem posters.

I personally do not think that a user receiving 3 reports in a short space of time receiving a ban would be a good idea. This would be too open to abuse and potentially alienate new member. Remember posts are not just reported for spamming they can be reported for any number of offences. A better option would for members with a high % of posts being reported to be fast tracked in the moderator section so that mods see them quicker and make a final decision.

Is there a record of Posts I have Reported that I can access? I reported a post (my own for going off topic) and the posts are still there and I didn't get alert of removed/denied yet. I want to say it was about 10 hours ago, so I was curious, maybe I had a glitch and it wasn't actually reported?

Eric Lyon said:

You may have noticed that NamePros is becoming largely dependent on you, the community, to Report posts that require our attention.

The reason for this is because we've outgrown the "manual moderation" method: it is no longer practical or scalable for us to have staff members read every post on NamePros to decide if a rule violation has occurred, content is posted in the correct section, etc. While we still do this when we can, there is much that we miss and that trend will continue to increase as NamePros grows.

Our plan to handle this in the most efficient and scalable way possible is to turn over the keys to you! But don't worry, we aren't taking this idea lightly, and we are going to make sure that we do it in the best way possible.

That's why we need your help!

Please share with us how you think we should do it.

Here are a few ideas to get you started:

1. After a post receives __ dislikes, it is automatically hidden and requires that a member click an "unhide" button to view it.
   • Once hidden, it would not appear in New Posts or other places on the site.
   • If the post is the first post of a thread, the entire thread is hidden in this manner.
2. Same as #1, but using the Report feature.
3. Similar to #1, except dislikes will be weighted based on your NamePros account level. For instance, a dislike from a VIP member would be worth as many as 5 dislikes from a new member.
4. Similar to #1, except dislikes will be weighted based on your NamePros account age. For instance, a dislike from a member who signed up in 2003 would be worth as many as 12 dislikes from someone who signed up today.
5. There are many other ways this can be done, and we want to hear the way you think is best.

The ability to "vote" could also be restricted to members who have been on the site for at least 1 year, received X number of Likes on at least Y number of posts.

In the meantime, please Report any posts that need our attention. We greatly appreciate it!


Note: We're still quite a ways away from creating this, but we'd love to get as much feedback on it as we can before that time comes.

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#1: What if it's just an unpopular opinion? For example: Someone posts "I love Donald Trump" and everyone dislikes it. Just because people don't agree with this persons opinion, doesn't mean it should be hidden/unvalidated. That's unfair.

#2: Much better. I think highly reported posts should be reviewed, and then hidden.

#3 & #4: Unfair. The basis on which these members acquire/have acquired hierarchy, is in no way relevant to their competence and capabilities.

#5: As I mentioned in regards to #2, highly reported posts should be reviewed, and then hidden. Also, new members should undergo a probationary period (1-6 months?) where they are restricted from creating threads/bids, and perhaps "too many" posts.

Cheers!

hxp said:

Also, new members should undergo a probationary period (1-6 months?) where they are restricted from creating threads/bids, and perhaps "too many" posts. Cheers!

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QFT - Excellent suggestions overall and ESPECIALLY this

Is the report button for general rule/guideline violations? It always make me think of a serious violation.

xdomainer said:

Is the report button for general rule/guideline violations?

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Yes, the Report button is anytime you'd like a moderator to take a look at a post because you believe action needs to be taken or assistance is needed.

I go with #1, and to support people to report posts I would change the color of "Report" button to red, also would be nice to see a small decription when someone hovers to the button, so they would know if the post is reportable or not, something like: "Please report this post only if is spam, off-topic, harrasment or immoral."

Constantin S said:

I would change the color of "Report" button to red, also would be nice to see a small decription when someone hovers to the button

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Thanks for this idea! We've made it bold and added an explanation when someone hovers over the link.

Agree with #2

I see all 5 ideas as too complex. Whatever the solution it needs to be pretty simple. The bolding of the report button and the hover note is a good idea.

My recommendation: Adding a link within the "Report Post" popup that leads to a detailed explanation of how to use the report button, how not to abuse it, and a possible FAQ. Maybe even add a few general points in the popup itself.

Eric Lyon said:

Thanks for this idea! We've made it bold and added an explanation when someone hovers over the link.

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Given that we apparently need to be explained what report is, shouldn't we also be told what "Like" and "Dislike" means

"This button lets you tell someone you dislike the content of their post or get back at them because they disliked you before"

I will say that recent improvements in the forum with respect to some users show that the report button does eventually work !

Thanks for trying to continuously improve the forum @Eric Lyon and @Paul Buonopane and everyone else (the mods).

Why not provide weight based on the reporters Messages/Likes ratio ? (Simple math equation).
Encouraging QUALITY posts at the same time.

VRdommy said:

Why not provide weight based on the reporters Messages/Likes ratio ? (Simple math equation).

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I think a too formulaic approach brings unintended consequences. Gotta keep it really simple.

DU said:

Given that we apparently need to be explained what report is, shouldn't we also be told what "Like" and "Dislike" means

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@Eric Lyon should double post this here
https://www.namepros.com/posts/5574421/

Although I would like added clarification of when to Dislike vs when to Report (as stated above) and maybe the whole post can be made a sticky somewhere, instead of buried down a 2015 thread : grin :

Ahh, NameProsOverflow :D

I love the idea to introduce community driven moderation. I use Stack Overflow/Exchange a fair bit which uses this model, so I throw the following out for debate:


1) Change the current buttons as part of the makeover:


Likes/Dislikes

"like" is simply "I like this post" and produces a "total likes" tally.
However people seem to shy away from using "dislike" as it seemingly carries harsh undertones, and I believe has some reporting weight - enough dislikes and a mod will review the post/user.

We should however change that as "dislike" is the logical opposite to "like" so the two should be strictly opposing in functionality, "I like this" and "I dislike this", nothing more.

The "report" button is for reporting and with this new proposed change/community moderating there will be no need for "dislike" to have any report mechanism.

The likes rack up like points, so perhaps the dislikes could remove "like" points? Before you consider this to be an evil thing, ie losing your likes, consider beyond the face value that gaining and losing is a much more natural way to generate an image of someone and see who has been liked as a net total.

Otherwise it's a bit like a website review page showing all the positive reviews and none of the complaints - a false image.

Perhaps a 1/0.25 like/dislike ratio. So for every 4 dislikes you lose one like, down to 0 (no negative numbers).

This could of course generate sour play, and should be considered/debated thoroughly, but net likes is better, and you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs


Thank
I think creating separation would be good. so a "thank" is just thank without a "like", so we can do either or both:

1. Thank
2. Like
3. Thank and like

There are plenty of scenarios where one can thank someone (for their advice, a link etc) but not actually like what they wrote.

But I see the attraction of one button being weightier, such as liking and thanking. Perhaps if remains to be both "thank" and "like", it could add 2 likes so it means something more than a "like"? Just a thought.


Report
I guess this is the button that is to change, in that reporting in some forums/areas would invoke a community voting poll.

Unlike Stack Exchange's complex system, which is required due to their user size, this site would benefit from something fairly simple.

Such as clicking "report" would:

1. Invoke a user driven moderation queue for others to vote on
2. Take you to the moderation queue if one already exists

In the queue area you could choose from a dropdown of what moderation queue you are wanting:

1. Close the thread
2. Re-open the thread
3. Hide the thread
4. Un-hide the thread

etc

Then:

• X net votes to complete the queue, eg "8 net votes to close the thread"

There is some complexity required, such as a vote can only be reversed once. So once a thread is closed, then re-opened, it cannot be closed again by community and a mod would have to step in and decide.
Without such things we'd just go around in circles opening and closing etc.

All of these things should be reversible by mods, who can take into account what the community has voted.

While a community can make bad judgement calls (even unintentionally) I think the majority of decisions would be fine and take the weight from mods.


If an entirely new system with buttons is introduced, I would suggest just removing the "report" button altogether. Or, perhaps make it generate a queue where people can vote on if moderator intervention is required.


This can all get complex very quickly of course, and maintenance and even using it can become a massive learning curve, but some complexity will be required. I imagine you'll thrash out the pros and cons

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Things to consider which are highly debatable and are just "IMO":

Eric Lyon said:

After a post receives __ dislikes, it is automatically hidden and requires that a member click an "unhide" button to view it.

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I think if you want such a system, it would require new buttons, instead of shoehorning more functionality into one which currently should be simple. A "dislike" should just be the opposite to a "like".

As per my idea above, the "report" link would invoke the user moderation queue, and create a new one if not exist where you can pick from a drop down "hide this thread, hide this post, close this thread" etc etc.

Eric Lyon said:

Similar to #1, except dislikes will be weighted based on your NamePros account level. For instance, a dislike from a VIP member would be worth as many as 5 dislikes from a new member.

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I really don't think an account level has any bearing on site experience, nor making good judgement calls.

Account level carry no relevance to voting decisions, they can be bought immediately with a 1 day old account. You cannot buy experience

Eric Lyon said:

Similar to #1, except dislikes will be weighted based on your NamePros account age. For instance, a dislike from a member who signed up in 2003 would be worth as many as 12 dislikes from someone who signed up today.

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Again, I see no correlation at all between when someone signed up and site knowledge, judgement call, or their care for the site and thus making a careful decision.

I think it's simpler to have 1 weight vote for every user, then using scripts can be made to determine poor decision makers and stop them for voting, or suspend their voting for a period, with longer suspensions for repeat issues etc.
Such as automatically stop people from being able to vote when, eg:

• They are in the minority vote by X threshold over Y times. So the total net votes required to "do something" is 10, and 12 people were in favour and 2 were not. The 2 who were not can be penalised if too many infractions.

I know people will se this as unfair, but in absolute reality you need something like this to keep decision making accurate. I'm talking about when a decision is right or wrong, NOT opinion



A MIN USER LEVEL TO VOTE

While someone having been here for X years and posted Y times does not in any way indicate any level of skill or understanding of the site, or good decision making for site moderation, we need to stop absolute newcomers from voting (don't know how things do or do not work in general, not experienced in site rules, etc). But this should be minimum just to weed out the lowest level of misunderstandings, as even seasoned users been here years can easily make bad decisions. Arguably worse than someone who's familiar with community moderating

NOTE: This is different to member standing giving more weight to votes, this is to stop being able to vote until criteria is met.

For example, being able to vote to hide posts/threads really must require some level of site participation to understand things to a min level.
EG (this is not proposed criteria, just an example):

1. Member for 4 months or more
2. 20 likes or more

These things are not really a measurement of good judgement etc, but there needs to be something to stop someone signing up and voting on things they have no idea about

And then you can get as complex as needs be. Such as the more you are in the majority vote, the more things you can vote on.


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I don't profess to be right about this, just ideas

Far too complex. I would keep the report button only

Domainstore said:

Far too complex. I would keep the report button only

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I understand your concern, but functionality requires some level of complexity, and I don't think its really that complex to use.

If just the single function from a single report button, what single thing would it report? We need to report various things imo

Paul Buonopane said:

I'm a fan of #1, but I think likes/thanks should counter dislikes. Posts would essentially be upvoted/downvoted, and when a post receives a negative score, it would be hidden.

We'll definitely still need staff to help catch sneakier troublemakers. I think the idea here is for them to focus on cracking down on fraud and such, rather than spending most of their time dealing with casual spam.

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Agree @Paul Buonopane , After high score of dislikes, the comment should be hidden...

As a relative newcomer to NamePros, though not to domains nor to large online forums, my initial and continued impression of NamePros is that of a well run and well moderated large scale forum!

I liked the appearance as a reader and user of the forum as a reasonably member self-moderated and member self -controlled forum with limited visible " official moderation" necessary.

IMO and limited time here the " Report " button should initially alert the " powers that be " to an immediate issue and perhaps the responding moderator should be empowered ( if not already empowered) to take immediate action as deemed necessary.

Is it possible to occasionally run at the top of each section of the Forum a moving message banner reminding members to " read the rules " or read specific rules that are most violated and the like?

Anyhow, thanks for a great forum!