discuss Estibot is a failure, why do domainers insist on using it?

djum said:

What's wrong with Alexa numbers?
I've seen many time people use Alexa traffic estimations or SimilarWeb to analyze traffic, even in professional startup media, like Techcrunch. Do you think this companies provide incorrect numbers? Why someone would use their services then?

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They've always been a joke for a few reasons. For me, I live in America. Most Alexa users don't. I've never met a civilian that has an Alexa bar, it's usually people with websites. Also, it's very easy to manipulate the numbers, hence it being a joke. I've seen people use Alexa numbers to talk about their traffic, well how about actual numbers. You know, uniques, page views etc. that's not something you have to guess it. Those are real numbers.

If we start digging on traffic sources and manipulation the outcome will be ugly. 60-70% of the world traffic is generated by bots. The same can be said about Facebook and twitter users. And these companies are publicly traded. But you can easily buy accounts, tweets, likes, pins, etc.. at fiverr or other resources. I would say fake/true ration is about 1:2,5 and it's present and already counted in the price. When Alexa calculates the traffic their top 25 mln. includes many sites with fake traffic. I agree that sources of traffic are very important and everyone need to do their due diligence, but overall Alexa number is true too, it's just you can inflate it with bots, many people do it.

Also, some of you need to be fair! people always bitch about when estibot priced a name "too high", but tbh, ive searched some names i bought recently, or was about to reg or buy and the estibot price was often close to what i believe an end user to pay. i'm talking about LLL.ins.

Lets not only complain when estibot is off. what about the times when it was close? yea....humans love to dwell on the bad.

@ shane- tbh i am dissapointed you didnt counter offer. you acted emotionally which to me means you were not really serious about buying the name. Imo, ANYONE WHO IS SERIOUS OFFERS OR COUNTER OFFERS.do u wanna win or be right? you didnt like his initial answer? well guess what? its called being "professional"- u suck it up.we all deal with low ballers everyday but we still have to see whats possible. ur a pro, so keep being a pro.

kemjika11 said:

Also, some of you need to be fair! people always bitch about when estibot priced a name "too high", but tbh, ive searched some names i bought recently, or was about to reg or buy and the estibot price was often close to what i believe an end user to pay. i'm talking about LLL.ins.

Lets not only complain when estibot is off. what about the times when it was close? yea....humans love to dwell on the bad.

@ shane- tbh i am dissapointed you didnt counter offer. you acted emotionally which to me means you were not really serious about buying the name. Imo, ANYONE WHO IS SERIOUS OFFERS OR COUNTER OFFERS.do u wanna win or be right? you didnt like his initial answer? well guess what? its called being "professional"- u suck it up.we all deal with low ballers everyday but we still have to see whats possible. ur a pro, so keep being a pro.

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You are absolutely right, in that you MUST NOT let emotions get in the way of acquiring or selling a domain. You must just separate emotions from business. I also agree with what you said "ANYONE WHO IS SERIOUS OFFERS OR COUNTER OFFERS", this is one factor that I take into consideration when buying or selling a name.

However, I understand how Shane felt and I have done the same thing myself. Sometimes it's hard to deal with people when right away they start doing things like quoting estibot. That taken with some other things they may have included in the conversation can really lead a person to question if their is a realistic chance of getting a name you want at a fair price.

I think most domainers at one time or another have let emotion dictate how and if we respond. Anything from paying more for a domain than what it's worth because we really like the name ourselves, to feeling insulted by offers that some people give us. I was upset once last year when a buyer offered me $50 (what I paid) for a name I know was easily worth 4 figures. I took a couple of hours to think how and if I was going to respond. I did respond and eventually sold the name for $2500 to the same buyer. If I had let emotions get the better of me then I would have missed the sale.

Anyway, as to the OP's topic, to most domainers (that aren't new or haven't acquired more knowledge yet) estibot is a joke for the most part. It can be useful as a sales tool though when dealing with an end user who doesn't know better though, especially when they have been dealing with other sellers that have been using it as a sales pitch.

Do I think it's values are accurate? Hell no, I have never seen an accurate estimate ever. There may be some that are, I have just never seen any.

Can it be a useful tool? Yes, when dealing with people who do think it holds value.

@ulterios - You thought the domain was worth easily 5 figures but you sell it for only $2500? Why did you sell it so cheap? Did that have anything to do with the lowball initial offer?

stub said:

@ulterios - You thought the domain was worth easily 5 figures but you sell it for only $2500? Why did you sell it so cheap? Did that have anything to do with the lowball initial offer?

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Thanks Stub for pointing that out, I meant 4 figures. My brain isn't operating all full capacity yet and typing with one hand is screwing up some of my posts.

The price was lower than what I wanted but since I only paid $50 for it I was happy about the deal. I am sure I could have gotten more if I held out but I got a price I was happy with and could re-invest the $.

I haven't had enough caffeine yet after sleeping only 2 hours because of the neighbors dog barking all night/morning. LOL

@ulterios -Happens to all of us, from time to time At least it shows I am actually reading the messages

kemjika11 said:

Lets not only complain when Estibot is off. what about the times when it was close? yea....humans love to dwell on the bad.

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An estimation tool should either work or not, Estibot doesn't. How are you meant to ascertain when it is close? Close to what? ...I could write a program that would generate random $ figures for domains and it would be "close" to my expectations sometimes but that doesn't mean it has any inherent value.

As others have stated above, it can not be used to evaluate a domains value, period. It can however be used as part of a marketing pitch to an end user who may not be as well informed as the majority of us and may be working for a mid/large company.

Is that the morally right thing to do...that's a whole different thread..

Inexperienced domainers will like quoting Estibot if it gives them false hope. Anything that gives unrealistically high appraisals will be popular.

@accelerator - What does the inexperienced domainer do when the valuation is too low.

stub said:

@accelerator - What does the inexperienced domainer do when the valuation is too low.

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Come here, post an appraisal in the forum. THEN, create a couple of new accounts and say how great it is and quote an unrealistic price!

I have sold domains for both more and less than their estibot appraisals. In some cases, 20% of the estibot value and in some cases up to several hundred times the estibot value. Estibot is just a tool. There are others I like better. Personally, if I like the domain, I will keep negotiating. All that matters to me is what the domain is worth to me.

@dbdomains - What valuation tools do you like better?

@dbdomains
How is Estibot a tool?...I still don't understand...yes it can be a tool with regards to marketing to an end user who doesn't know any better but it is not a tool in it's own right! If you have sold for 20% of it's valuation to several hundred times then it's obviously worthless for the job it is intended for.

Please explain in just one example how it has assisted you through it's valuation in either pricing/valuing or selling a domain in any way other than to an uninitiated end user whose spending his/her companies money.

You seem to be passionate about this.

Yes - as a value estimation tool, it leaves a lot to be desired. But it doesn't only provide value estimates, as I recall. I am talking about the estibot site, not just the appraisal tool.

It has helped me quickly see related domains for sale, related sales and their dates and prices, and it used to have fairly accurate Google search numbers. It also used to show the ads/advertisers who were targeting the domain keyword, but now I believe that is a pay feature. These things have helped me to determine the value I would put on a domain I own or I want to purchase. I have not used estibot in a long time as I have since found other tools that I like to use better.

I agree with you about the valuations. From my perspective, I would not rely on estibot's valuation feature.

mjamescork said:

@dbdomains
How is Estibot a tool?...I still don't understand...yes it can be a tool with regards to marketing to an end user who doesn't know any better but it is not a tool in it's own right! If you have sold for 20% of it's valuation to several hundred times then it's obviously worthless for the job it is intended for.

Please explain in just one example how it has assisted you through it's valuation in either pricing/valuing or selling a domain in any way other than to an uninitiated end user whose spending his/her companies money.

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stub said:

@dbdomains - What valuation tools do you like better?

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I don't really like any of the few that I have tried. When I buy domains, I do my own research. I look at past related sales. I to some Google keyword and trends research to see how many people are searching for the keyword(s). I search for the keywords in Google and Bing and look and see how many ads come up from what advertisers. I visit sites about related topics and try to see how active the communities are. If it's eCommerce related, I try to determine overall market size, how many people want to buy related products on line, etc. I run it through my own recall and "radio" tests. I do a lot of the stuff that many investors on this board do. I have tried domainindex also and it has flaws too.

What is unfortunate, is that many newbies buy their first domains and build a portfolio based upon estibot appraisals. They end up with a pile of junk that won't sell.

In fact you can punch pretty much any domain into estibot, even oddballs extensions with no established market, and it will almost always be appraised at regfee at a minimum. It's like, you have nothing to lose, no matter what you register.

Truly estibot free services to "some extent" is a Joke when it comes to domain name appraisal and traffic index.

But we can not completely overrule its paid services as it offer some vital hint that makes one feel consoled to employ it services.

BTW, you shouldnt have thrown the deal away as domain appraisal is a must do task for all potential domain buyer prolly you were lazy then or you were not interested.

Also inform this forum how to correctly apprais a domain apart from google keyword and adword.

I stay away from 'valuations' all together. A domain is worth what someone will pay for it, and what the owner is willing to sell it for. If I owned TheWorstDomainEver.com and I was approached for 'pricing' the conversation would eventually lead me to suggesting xx,xxx for the price.

If they say no, then so be it... but if they say YES then it's a successful transaction. The upside of xx,xxx far outweighs a sale of a few hundred dollars. It's a risk I take, and I will either prosper or fail with it.

If you read the sales charts, there are many domains on there that are would be 'appraised' for $xxx selling for five figures.

If you are a domainer and I am familiar with you, then we can discuss reasonable prices to part with assets. When people eMail me out of the blue, to me, they are an end user trying to gain possession of my property under the guise of a 'teacher' or 'domainer' or some other fabricated story.

As for Estibot itself, it's for inexperienced domain owners. There are millions of domains out there, and most of them are owned by people that are inexperienced and are looking for some kind of valuation. It helps when you are going to sell a domain to an inexperienced buyer (morality ?), but other than that it's just a nice website with meaningless stats on it.

jamesosix said:

Seriously, its such a flawed piece of software and yet all i see in domain circles is "estibot this" and "estibot that"

Why do domainers insist on telling other domainers what esitbot apprises something at? It is actually starting to make me question whether a particular domainer is serious or not.

I'm going to start saying "my folks appraised this at xxxxxxxxxx value, because they probably have a better insight to a domains value versus estibot!!

Is it just me that feels this way?

I say we should start considering NOT using estibot EVER because it is full of s***.

Discuss.

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I think estibot is a quite useful tool ,since you get an insight about the value of your domain name.There might be some flaws in estibot,but still it gives you a rough idea about the price of the domain in marketplace.But in the end it doesn't mean the domain has to sell for that price.Lot of domains with low estibot price have been sold for a huge amount in the recent past. The seller should be expert enough or have the skill to determine the value of the domain names for which the domain would be sold.If someone really likes and want to acquire a domain name they're going to buy it if they can afford it.

Sure! but do you know that if you are not savy with what you are doing; the end user will get you cheap before you know it.
Estibot is just a software that says their makers feelings about certain keyword but it does not always represent general feelings of the real price of a particular domain. It based all her appraisals on previous sales of alikes domains or keywords. If I don't believe in something does not mean such tool is not good for other people, the only thing in virtual domain world is there are no known two equal domains, ever seen; it is unlike brick and physical world and this is why we may not have any accurate tools for appraisals. Even manual appraisals are done by comparizm of previous sales, keyword type, niche, ppc, cpc, age, and some other factors. IMHO. Cheers.

vicky4712 said:

I think estibot is a quite useful tool ,since you get an insight about the value of your domain name.There might be some flaws in estibot,but still it gives you a rough idea about the price of the domain in marketplace....

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No it doesn't.

People need to stop using the free service because it it is wildly inaccurate when it comes to appraising domains and any domainer who knows his stuff know estibot is a POS.

Personally, I don't use estibot or any generated system to value domains for many reasons.

So far, many have just mentioned the appraisal tool. But I would love to hear from ANYONE who is making $$ from the paid subscription productivity tools?

kemjika11 said:

@ shane- tbh i am dissapointed you didnt counter offer. you acted emotionally which to me means you were not really serious about buying the name. Imo, ANYONE WHO IS SERIOUS OFFERS OR COUNTER OFFERS.

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I did not act emotionally at all. I am not going to waste my time or his time by offering him what it's worth when he's pricing the domain $50,000 too high.

kemjika11 said:

do u wanna win or be right?

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I don't need to win when buying. The only time I need to win is when selling.

kemjika11 said:

you didnt like his initial answer? well guess what? its called being "professional"- u suck it up.

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Please don't insinuate that I was not professional. I will have "2 dig in2 u."

kemjika11 said:

we all deal with low ballers everyday but we still have to see whats possible.

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Not seeing how this is relevant at all.

kemjika11 said:

ur a pro, so keep being a pro.

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All day "errverday."