Is Verisign Catching Expired Domains and Then Re-releasing Them?

Ms Domainer · Jul 21, 2011

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This is NOT an accusation; I'm just trying to understand how expiring .com and .net domains are dropped into the deletion pool.

I had been keeping an eye on an expiring domain in the hopes of catching it as a reg fee. I didn't want to backkorder it because, quite frankly, it's a so-so domain (with a hyphen), but it's short and conveys two different meanings, so it might have some value, but not enough to pay 50-60 bucks for it.

Okay, so I find out that the domain has been caught by someone using gtld-servers.net as its servers (all 10 of them!), which I then discovered belong to Verisign.

I had come across these servers before in a quest for another domain, which was taken by the owner of these same servers, but I really didn't look into it, although the 10 servers seemed odd for a new reg.

The domain was caught by Verisign and dropped less than 24 hours later (it might have been sooner than that). I was then able to snag it, even though it still showed as taken on the expiring domain tool that I use.

I thought it was odd that someone would "taste" a name for such a short period of time, especially since tasting has been seriously curtailed, but I thought it was just an anomaly.

Okay, so today, when I saw those same servers attached to a domain I wanted, I had a hunch that the domain might have been dropped (even though it still showed as taken), and I was right! So I snagged that one as well. This is when I discovered the Versign connection.

My question: when registrars release deleting domains, do they release them directly to Verisign who holds them for a short time and then releases the domains into la-la land?

I'm sorry if I'm asking something that might be common knowledge, but this is the first time I have encountered this possibility.

Thanks for any insights!

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cdboard · Jul 21, 2011

don't know how it is now, but here is some old info: http://www.circleid.com/posts/81082_network_solutions_front_running

tech4 · Jul 21, 2011

If someone at VS got it, and tasted it. Its an insider job.

Its not that suprising, everything is corrupted in the domain industry and outside.

Kate · Jul 21, 2011

gtld-servers.net are the root DNS

I don't know what you saw but it was probably a DNS lookup failure or a glitch of some sort.

---------- Post added at 12:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 AM ----------

By the way, the pending-delete domains are released by the registry, not the registrars. When domains enter redemption status, they are no longer controlled by their respective registrars. That's why the original registrar is not in a privileged position to catch its own drops.

DU · Jul 21, 2011

Not sure it's relevant but I know you use Domainmonster quite often.

They weren't always the best at getting the drop date right

Been a while since I used them so I don't know if anything has changed - I don't think so because they don't appear to be a huge organization and it's not a priority to fix some minor issues ... but their support is always very helpful

Domagon · Jul 21, 2011

Nope that's not it, because root-servers.net is the root DNS.

gtld-servers.net is operated by VeriSign to serve .com and .net domains.

Some theories come to mind...

1st possibility: A registrar is allowing tasting and it / registrant is defaulting the name servers to gtld-servers.net

2nd possibility: VeriSign is testing something... see link below regarding VeriSign allowing partial year registrations / domain exchanges.

http://domainincite.com/verisign-plans-domain-tasting-service/

3rd possibility: VeriSign is outright tasting. But I doubt this for several reasons... The time seems too short; gtld servers are not ideal for that use; and there's no need to even taste at all - VeriSign can simply log dns queries to gtld-servers.net and extrapolate (there's some heuristics involved since tld zone lookups are not 1:1) estimate domain traffic based solely on that.

Ron

Ms Domainer · Jul 21, 2011

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defaultuser: these were both hand regs, so not backorders. Actually, DM has been pretty good with backorders, especially .us and some .orgs (Not so good with .com or .net). Not 100%, but not too bad for a company that allows only one backorder per domain.

sdinc: This has happened twice (in a relatively short period of time), so it seems too coincidental, unless it's an on-going glitch. But, of course, anything is possible.

I don't want to just assume that someone at Verisign is tasting. For starters, the two domains were dropped very soon after registration, hardly enough time for tasting. Besides, two domains don't constitute proof of anything.

I was thinking more that, perhaps, registrars have been releasing deleting .com and .net domains directly to Verisign, who then releases them to the deletion pool. A possible check and balance to make sure that registries actually drop their deleting domains? (It would be so easy not to release domains but just keep them.)

Perhaps it would help if you knew the two domains:

won-t [dawt] com (Created May 6, 2011) -- GoDaddy

We-d [dawt] com (Created July 20, 2011) -- Domainmonster

If anyone had backordered these (doubtful--domainers dislike hyphens, no?), then I would see a possible problem.

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Kate · Jul 21, 2011

Domagon said:
Nope that's not it, because root-servers.net is the root DNS.

I mean the authoritative name servers for the .com GTLD

Code:

dig ns com

; <<>> DiG 9.3.6-P1-RedHat-9.3.6-16.P1.el5 <<>> ns com
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 28313
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 13, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 13

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;com.                           IN      NS

;; ANSWER SECTION:
com.                    64979   IN      NS      l.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    64979   IN      NS      b.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    64979   IN      NS      c.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    64979   IN      NS      k.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    64979   IN      NS      j.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    64979   IN      NS      m.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    64979   IN      NS      a.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    64979   IN      NS      h.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    64979   IN      NS      f.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    64979   IN      NS      i.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    64979   IN      NS      d.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    64979   IN      NS      e.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    64979   IN      NS      g.gtld-servers.net.

;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
f.gtld-servers.net.     81004   IN      A       192.35.51.30
d.gtld-servers.net.     81004   IN      A       192.31.80.30
b.gtld-servers.net.     81004   IN      A       192.33.14.30
g.gtld-servers.net.     81004   IN      A       192.42.93.30
a.gtld-servers.net.     81004   IN      A       192.5.6.30
e.gtld-servers.net.     81004   IN      A       192.12.94.30
k.gtld-servers.net.     81004   IN      A       192.52.178.30
h.gtld-servers.net.     81004   IN      A       192.54.112.30
i.gtld-servers.net.     81004   IN      A       192.43.172.30
j.gtld-servers.net.     81004   IN      A       192.48.79.30
l.gtld-servers.net.     81004   IN      A       192.41.162.30
c.gtld-servers.net.     81004   IN      A       192.26.92.30
m.gtld-servers.net.     81004   IN      A       192.55.83.30

Ms Domainer · Jul 21, 2011

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Domagon, your theories make a lot of sense, and I agree about #3; it just seems too unlikely that Verisign would take such a risk for such a slight gain.

I have repped everyone I could (sdsinc, I must have repped you recently), but I'm open to more theories.

Oh, I forgot one other thing. The We-d url had been directed to Flex Media Domain's sales landing page.

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Kate · Jul 21, 2011

Ms Domainer said:
We-d [dawt] com (Created July 20, 2011) -- Domainmonster

I believe that name was due to drop on 20 July. Nothing abnormal imo.

I don't know where you checked domain status, try on the registry website. What you described looks like a DNS query failure, it might be that the name had actually dropped.

Ms Domainer · Jul 21, 2011

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Wow, I just tried to do a search on we-d on archive.org (for 2004), and the page got shut down (by my virus program) due to malicious malware.

Yikes! Talk about the past biting you in the butt!

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---------- Post added at 02:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:16 PM ----------

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sdsinc,

May I PM you?

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Domagon · Jul 21, 2011

VeriSign doesn't care how long a registrar holds an expired domain, since they still get paid, if the registrar doesn't delete it in a timely manner; usually within 45 days.

Only VeriSign registry can truly delete .com / .net domains, registrars can only request deletion - they can't actually delete them. Once VeriSign acts upon a delete request, the domain is out of the registrar's direct control - assuming no further action by the registrar (ie. canceling the request / rollback; redemption recovery), it will be deleted.

Ron

Ms Domainer said:
I was thinking more that, perhaps, registrars have been releasing deleting .com and .net domains directly to Verisign, who then releases them to the deletion pool. A possible check and balance to make sure that registries actually drop their deleting domains? (It would be so easy not to release domains but just keep them.)

Kate · Jul 21, 2011

Sure, feel free to send me a PM.

Domagon · Jul 21, 2011

Ms Domainer said:
Domagon, your theories make a lot of sense, and I agree about #3; it just seems too unlikely that Verisign would take such a risk for such a slight gain.

Furthermore, VeriSign is not really supposed to register domains itself except for operational use. They are supposed to use a registrar for other domains just like everyone else.

sdsinc brings up a great point about where are you checking DNS status? If you're not querying X.gtld-servers.net (X being a, b, c, etc; usually I query b.) directly, what you're seeing may be due to an error of some sort; missing information resulting in default gtld.servers.net entries being returned instead, which I think is what sdsinc is getting at.

EDIT: sdsinc is referring to the registry website and registry status not DNS queries per se, but same issue applies, regardless. Querying domains through 3rd parties, be it whois / DNS, is not reliable - info can be out of date / weird errors.

Ms Domainer said:
I have repped everyone I could (sdsinc, I must have repped you recently), but I'm open to more theories.

Thank you

Ron

Ms Domainer · Jul 21, 2011

sdsinc said:
Sure, feel free to send me a PM.

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PM sent.

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Is Verisign Catching Expired Domains and Then Re-releasing Them?

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