The LLLL.com sales and discussion thread

italiandragon · Aug 6, 2007

Hello, I think it would be pretty useful to keep track of all LLLL.com sales , even the little ones under $100 so that , pretty soon , when the available LLLL.com will be finished , we`ll have a better idea on market prices.

It is important that these sales are confirmed. So before to post, make sure payment went OK.

I will start with todays` Sedo confirmed sales:

FISE.com 2,700 Euros
TSRT.com US $760
VEUP.com US $1,700

Also, I found interesting to see this average LLLL, getting bids up to $51 and reserve not me. It says it all.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...110154111735_W0QQ_trksidZm37QQfromZR40QQfviZ1

Vzolezzi · Nov 5, 2009

Thanks for the advice fantasy...in that case I may park them and look for more of a long term investment

maxeaus · Nov 5, 2009

OOLL dot com, sold at Sedo, $3000.00

gladdy · Nov 5, 2009

From DNjournal

BEST.COM
$331,561

PIPI.COM
$100,000

CUNY.COM
$30,050

CBAM.COM
$7,000

MANZ.COM
$5,909

MANY MANY MORE.....

ebatcave · Nov 5, 2009

gladdy said:
From DNjournal
PIPI.COM
$100,000.00

Wow! Obviously end user, but still a great transaction!

accent · Nov 6, 2009

Snoop said:
... I think the buyout will not hold. ...

We are now into drops purchased in September, 2007 (buyout was Nov 2). Wordsworth is no longer posting that there are availables, it seems because they all evaporate before he gets done. The domains purchased in September and October differ little from those bought in the several months previous.

In other words, while there is an outside chance that a large drop will take a few days to go away, the buyout is holding and, with the improving economy, I think it is reasonable to expect prices to rise.

Shoot, they already are rising.
-------------------------
Vzolezzi-
To give you another opinion:
JMWN.com $12 (two non-premium letters (J,W) pull it down but M and N are pretty good)
EZGH.com $20 (EZ = eazy which is good at the start, but GH are weak)
ULFB.com $35 (only one non-premium (U) FB could possibly be Football)

There is no substitute for study. LLLL com domains are a lot easier than other sectors but there is still a lot to know. Most of it is in this thread, somewhere. The biggest mistake new domainers make is to buy before they learn. Hang on to these three, you will probably come out OK on them, use them as a touchstone, and read.

Best letters: SACT
High premium: MDENIBOP
Low premium: LRGFH
Non-Premium: WUKJVY
Bad Letters: ZXQ
(a lot of different opinions on this, and other languages are very different.)

There also is pronouncability and acronyms which are very important. Watch the sold lists and try to understand why each domain sold for that price (sometimes a domain goes high for no reason but rarely will one go particularly low.)

Vzolezzi · Nov 6, 2009

accentnepal said:
We are now into drops purchased in September, 2007 (buyout was Nov 2). Wordsworth is no longer posting that there are availables, it seems because they all evaporate before he gets done. The domains purchased in September and October differ little from those bought in the several months previous.

In other words, while there is an outside chance that a large drop will take a few days to go away, the buyout is holding and, with the improving economy, I think it is reasonable to expect prices to rise.

Shoot, they already are rising.
-------------------------
Vzolezzi-
To give you another opinion:
JMWN.com $12 (two non-premium letters (J,W) pull it down but M and N are pretty good)
EZGH.com $20 (EZ = eazy which is good at the start, but GH are weak)
ULFB.com $35 (only one non-premium (U) FB could possibly be Football)

There is no substitute for study. LLLL com domains are a lot easier than other sectors but there is still a lot to know. Most of it is in this thread, somewhere. The biggest mistake new domainers make is to buy before they learn. Hang on to these three, you will probably come out OK on them, use them as a touchstone, and read.

Best letters: SACT
High premium: MDENIBOP
Low premium: LRGFH
Non-Premium: WUKJVY
Bad Letters: ZXQ
(a lot of different opinions on this, and other languages are very different.)

There also is pronouncability and acronyms which are very important. Watch the sold lists and try to understand why each domain sold for that price (sometimes a domain goes high for no reason but rarely will one go particularly low.)

Thank you,

Really appreciate the advice.

tetrapak · Nov 6, 2009

NJ:

eipi $412
lfpm $165
dpas $1,800

-REECE- · Nov 6, 2009

Following the whole SN incident, most people will have to reexamine what exactly a low risk domain is and how they go about valuating and finding them... Really makes you wonder how much of the value in most keyword domains is coming from exactly what keyword domainers claim short domain value is coming from -- incestual trading amongst domainers.

Except in the SN case, short domain investors get the last laugh. What does the future hold for mediocre multi-keyword .coms?

snoop said:
My view was the market was extremely high risk when it got to $3000 and they could have easily fallen further. Frankly many were bullish all the way down, constantly calling bottoms on the basis of nothing. Ditto for LLLL.com, how many arguments did we have about the minimum being $40, $30, $20, $10. It only stopped when it reached $0. In regards to that quote though it isn't exactly negative, I said "anything could happen, it is a complete gamble", ie I wasn't sure on the future direction, could go either way.

Personally I would rather buy after something has bottomed than trying to catch a falling knife, I said that to people many times at the time. Only in hindsight does buying at the absolute bottom look good. Better to buy at $3500 after the market has stabilized and risen than buy at $3000 after falling $1000 the month before.

When LLLL.com's starts to improve people will say the same thing...oh but you could have bought for $X, the reality is though many of those people bought all the way down (because they always think things are looking rosey) and are sitting overall on whopping losses because of it.

snoop · Nov 7, 2009

betthelot said:
This is a typical snoopism. First part of the sentence you say ' I think the buy out will not hold.' 'Then immediatly after say the 'LLLL.com market will bottom then improve,'.

So that no matter what the market does in two months you will claim you called it right.
If it bottoms; 'well I told all you idiots the buy out would not hold and to get out'.
If the Market improves, 'I said for about two months now it will bottom then improve'.
If the buy out fails but recovers, ' I said it will fail but then improve'

All bases covered, no sense of conviction.
No you haven't changed direction because you go in all directions

No, it is simply stating my view and I think you are going around in circles with all this.

It think the buyout will fall over, but eventually the market will improve. Once again you seem to like to think people should make blanket statements. If I predict the LLL.com market to crash then you think I'm always going to have an negative opinion on it, ie even after it has crashed. Sorry that isn't how it works. The market is cyclical.

---------- Post added at 04:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:28 PM ----------

-REECE- said:
Following the whole SN incident, most people will have to reexamine what exactly a low risk domain is and how they go about valuating and finding them... Really makes you wonder how much of the value in most keyword domains is coming from exactly what keyword domainers claim short domain value is coming from -- incestual trading amongst domainers.

Except in the SN case, short domain investors get the last laugh. What does the future hold for mediocre multi-keyword .coms?

Do you mean the snapnames settlement, if so what does it have to do with short domain investors in particular?

Agree with the second sentence to a fair degree though, about trading between domainers largely setting market prices. It is backed up by enduser sales and PPC to a degree and external money is the key thing, though really it is domainers who set the price.

---------- Post added at 04:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:35 PM ----------

accentnepal said:
Wordsworth is no longer posting that there are availables, it seems because they all evaporate before he gets done.

Probably a big assumption to make, from what I read he was taking a break for a while.

MicroGuy · Nov 7, 2009

It appears that the SN conspiracy was responsible in part for artificially inflating domain prices across the board. I think there's a reasonable possibility that domain valuations have only begun to fall with the worse yet to come.

Now is the time to hunker down with .COM gems and let the LLLL trash fall by the waist side. IMO.

sidekick_33 · Nov 7, 2009

Can anyone explain what this SnapName conspiracy was? I haven't heard anything about it!

accent · Nov 7, 2009

SN conspiracy?????

Unless I am missing something there was one guy who got in trouble because he was bidding on his own account while employed at Snapnames. While he managed to "refund" a small part of the money to himself, as I read the letter mostly he paid for the domains. So the prices he paid were mostly legitimate - a buyer paid them. The problem was that he had better information - or perhaps in an extreme case was able to block competing bidders from bidding (which would lower prices). (I have no info that he did that). He was involved in only a small percentage of sales at one venue. This has no reflection on domain values.

Yes, of course a large portion of domain sales are between domainers - in all sectors. Anybody who thinks otherwise has not tried very many random URLs in their browser. But the critics do not understand the collector. Go to a coin show and watch the silver dollar market for a while. Silver dollars sell for far more than their silver value and people buy them by the thousands. Barring a huge economic collapse or a successful replacement for domain names, domain collectors will continue to be a major part of the market. Does not worry me in the least.

Snoop - I do not know why Wordsworth quit posting updates, but I did notice that the drops vanished almost immediately, which made the work of academic interest only.

maxeaus · Nov 7, 2009

At least i know where i stand with the llll.com market, no one here is bidding up names like qkvz.com to $500 a domain, they are what they are, you can see by the sales on this page that the LLLL.com market is alive and well.

People IMO should be asking themselves why they were paying $500 + for domains like cavesbatman.com etc at SnapNames?

As for domain prices in general, i think the worst is over for most, the financial crisis is under control and buyers are returning for all assets.

Whether low quality LLLL.com will rise or not, who knows, they are speculative after all, the only difference between them and low quality .coms is that there is a limited amount of LLLL.com compared to the unlimited amount of .com garbage that we see for sale on here or elsewhere.

betthelot · Nov 7, 2009

-REECE- said:
Following the whole SN incident, most people will have to reexamine what exactly a low risk domain is and how they go about valuating and finding them... Really makes you wonder how much of the value in most keyword domains is coming from exactly what keyword domainers claim short domain value is coming from -- incestual trading amongst domainers.

Except in the SN case, short domain investors get the last laugh. What does the future hold for mediocre multi-keyword .coms?

I got the letter from SN today listing the names that have been affected and the rebate amount. It was about 5% of all the names which I had won on snap names but noticeably they all had very low winning bids. The highest was $230 most around $110. I have won names ranging from $100 up to many times that. If this is similar across the board I can not see it having any effects on prices of keywords or short domains (maybe on the very low end but with the entry bid of $59 it makes very little difference).

snoop said:
It think the buyout will fall over, but eventually the market will improve.

That will be proven wrong along with your previous post that this sector is a basket case, implying you have to be a basket case to be in it.

maxeaus · Nov 7, 2009

accentnepal said:
SN conspiracy?????

Unless I am missing something there was one guy who got in trouble because he was bidding on his own account while employed at Snapnames. While he managed to "refund" a small part of the money to himself, as I read the letter mostly he paid for the domains. So the prices he paid were mostly legitimate - a buyer paid them. The problem was that he had better information - or perhaps in an extreme case was able to block competing bidders from bidding (which would lower prices). (I have no info that he did that). He was involved in only a small percentage of sales at one venue. This has no reflection on domain values.

Yes, of course a large portion of domain sales are between domainers - in all sectors. Anybody who thinks otherwise has not tried very many random URLs in their browser. But the critics do not understand the collector. Go to a coin show and watch the silver dollar market for a while. Silver dollars sell for far more than their silver value and people buy them by the thousands. Barring a huge economic collapse or a successful replacement for domain names, domain collectors will continue to be a major part of the market. Does not worry me in the least.

Snoop - I do not know why Wordsworth quit posting updates, but I did notice that the drops vanished almost immediately, which made the work of academic interest only.

No offence, but i think this is much bigger than anyone realises, there is evidence so far that the guys family members may have been involved, along with multiple companies and individuals of high standing in the domain world.

Not to mention the fast tracked cover up job they are trying to pull ATM at Snap.

There is multi level devious behaviour that is almost hard to fathom.

This has and will effect the whole domain sector for some time to come. (except crappy LLLL.com!)

dannbkk · Nov 7, 2009

Hi Guys what is the best place to sell 4 l .com's at the moment?, I want to sell off my portfolio from 4ldomain.com

Soofi · Nov 7, 2009

gladdy said:
From DNjournal

PIPI.COM
$100,000

someone was selling PEPE,com here or on dnf.. idk

gladdy · Nov 7, 2009

I will not surprise if he ask high X,XXX amount)))

www.DONT.net said:
someone was selling PEPE,com here or on dnf.. idk

tetrapak · Nov 8, 2009

NJ:

rcha $160
tsir $250

accent · Nov 8, 2009

Yeah, the Snap names problems are bigger than their letter implied. The Vice President of the company was pushing bids to near the proxy amount an was involved in a lot of auctions under the name Halvarez. There are serious questions as to how he could have done this (for the last 5 years) without the knowledge of others at SN (bidding takes a lot of time, and at the busiest time for the corporation) and if there were other accounts involved. There is a long thread in the general discussion section.

It is a serious problem for Snapnames, but I still do not see how it will have much effect of the overall domain market, based as it is on end users, collectors and PPC. I know the bidding for modest quality LLLL.coms on snap was pretty sharp yesterday.

Lakshan · Nov 8, 2009

www.DONT.net said:
someone was selling PEPE,com here or on dnf.. idk

PePe,com is Listed at PremiumDomains,com for $70,000

Soofi · Nov 8, 2009

BladeMaster said:
PePe,com is Listed at PremiumDomains,com for $70,000

now it is, earlier someone was selling it here or dnf. I'm not sure but I saw a sales thread of it!!

tonecas · Nov 8, 2009

gladdy said:
From DNjournal

PIPI.COM
$100,000

this one in portuguese has, lets say, "funny" synonyms... :hehe:

regards,
tonecas

Soofi · Nov 8, 2009

tonecas said:
this one in portuguese has, lets say, "funny" synonyms... :hehe:

regards,
tonecas

pipi term is also used for kid's penis, I think

tonecas · Nov 8, 2009

maxeaus said:
OOLL dot com, sold at Sedo, $3000.00

if you can share, was that with fixed price?

regards,
tonecas

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