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Rob Monster

Founder of EpikTop Member
Epik Founder
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The price increases are going to continue -- 7% per year from Verisign. That is actually still pretty good value for non-trash domains. It may also improve the expiry streams as some registrars use this as a pretext for price increases. At this time, Epik has no plan to raise prices for .COM.

Two things as tactical points:

1. Forever domains at Epik are $399 but we can do bulk deals for less.

2. For bulk transfers we can also do deals, e.g. we have done $6.99 promos and happy hours in the past. If folks want that, we'll see what we can do.

The Versign price increase is not good news. Epik will do its part to try to soften the blow!
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
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1. Forever domains at Epik are $399 but we can do bulk deals for less.

"Forever domains" are not a thing without the registry itself on board.

.COM domains can be renewed for a max of (10) years with the registry, where it actually matters.

You are paying $399 for the promise that Epik will pay for the renewal fee in perpetuity, regardless of price.

Obviously this could become unsustainable depending on what happens with pricing over time or Epik as a company long term.

Verisign, the actual .COM registry, is not a part of this agreement. There are no guarantees.

Just know what you are actually paying for.

Brad
 
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<familiar whinge>

Brad

The economics of the $399 Forever domain are as good as ever for two reasons: (1) .COM prices are going up and up, and (2) Nobody really knows what a dollar will be worth in 1 year let alone 10.
 
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The economics of the $399 Forever domain are as good as ever for two reasons: (1) .COM prices are going up and up, and (2) Nobody really knows what a dollar will be worth in 1 year let alone 10.

Yeah, you are basically making a good argument why the model is unsustainable without the registry on board.

Epik has no control over inflation, or .COM pricing...but they have all the potential liability.

The bottom line is you are paying for a promise from Epik to renew the domain, regardless of price, in perpetuity with no actual guarantees.

Brad
 
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Yeah, you are basically making a good argument why the model is unsustainable without the registry on board.

Epik has no control over inflation, or .COM pricing...but they have all the potential liability.

The bottom line is you are paying for a promise from Epik to renew the domain, regardless of price, in perpetuity with no actual guarantees.

Brad

It is all out in the open:

Overview: https://www.epik.com/forever
Fine Print: https://www.epik.com/forever.php

For anyone planning to keep domains anyway, it is an easy decision. There is discussion to add the DNProtect.com warranty feature with $10,000 of loss protection as well. Great product, by the way.

Your friends at Godaddy added BIN landers in 2021. Maybe they will introduce Forever domains in 2035. Who knows. You could wait.

upload_2021-6-16_17-56-18.png
 
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It is all out in the open:

Overview: https://www.epik.com/forever
Fine Print: https://www.epik.com/forever.php

For anyone planning to keep domains anyway, it is an easy decision. There is discussion to add the DNProtect.com warranty feature with $10,000 of loss protection as well. Great product, by the way.

Your friends at Godaddy added BIN landers in 2021. Maybe they will introduce Forever domains in 2035. Who knows. You could wait.

Show attachment 193123

GoDaddy, as a publicly traded company, is probably not willing to take on unknown liabilities like Epik is.
They have to be accountable to investors.

I don't think GoDaddy (or any other publicly traded domain company) is even going to take on an unlimited liability. Without the registry on board, you are only paying for a promise from the registrar.

If Verisign was on board, it would be a different story. Even then, there is no guarantee they will have the right to run .COM in perpetuity.

Companies are sold. Companies close down. All you are paying for here is a promise from Epik, with no guarantees.

Brad
 
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GoDaddy, as a publicly traded company, is probably not willing to take on unknown liabilities like Epik is.
They have to be accountable to investors.

I don't think GoDaddy (or any other publicly traded) domain company is even going to take on an unlimited liability. Without the registry on board, you are only paying for a promise from the registrar.

Brad

Running a public company is a blessing and a curse. On balance, when it comes to being innovative and empowering domainers, it seems to be more curse than blessing. :)
 
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What would happen if Epik went out of business then there is no forever?
 
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What would happen if Epik went out of business then there is no forever?

or sold...are they going to transfer these liabilities to a new company?

When you actually drill down into any reasonable analysis the idea doesn't make that much sense. This is probably why other companies don't offer it.

You are paying $399 for a promise.

Brad
 
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All you are paying for here is a promise from Epik, with no guarantees.

Assuming that this is true,

The question then is how can this "Promise" be strengthened and backed up to the point that domainers can feel safe and comfortable with using this forever domain service.

Aren't there other examples in other Industries where an agent promises to make a payment on behalf of a client on a long term basis, I wonder how those are set up to survive any unforseen changes in the future.

IMO
 
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Assuming that this is true,

The question then is how can this "Promise" be strengthened and backed up to the point that domainers can feel safe and comfortable with using this forever domain service.

Aren't there other examples in other Industries where an agent promises to make a payment on behalf of a client on a long term basis, I wonder how those are set up to survive any unforseen changes in the future.

IMO

Epik has no control over inflation. They have no control over who runs the .COM registry. They have no control over .COM pricing.

They have the same ability you have to renew a .COM domain for (10) years. They don't have any extra abilities.

Various parties, mainly the registry itself, would have to be on board. There would have to be some type of legal guarantee that if the .COM contract was moved to a party other than Versign these liabilities would be moved as well.

Brad
 
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"Forever domains" are not a thing without the registry itself on board.

@Rob Monster How can you guarantee to us that Epik as company will be here forever and renew our domains every 10 years? What if Epik ever closes down for whatever reason let's say in 40 years when you are not around anymore? @bmugford has a very valid point that the registry is not involved in this deal, making the deal very uncertain in the long term!
 
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Here we go again:
- Advertise and promote your company in a discussion thread
- Bad mouth other company - Godaddy in this case

Unprofessional - When will you stop this bad practice?

What is very unprofessional too is that @Rob Monster sarcastically quotes @bmugford 's reply by replacing it with "<familiar whinge>".

Well maybe his next move is for us to "buy" a "prayer" for Epik to stay around for 100 years?
 
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@Rob Monster How can you guarantee to us that Epik as company will be here forever and renew our domains every 10 years? What if Epik ever closes down for whatever reason let's say in 40 years when you are not around anymore? @bmugford has a very valid point that the registry is not involved in this deal, making the deal very uncertain in the long term!

Why do people buy insurance? They transfer risk.

Why do businesses hedge? They transfer risk.

Same story here. What risks are being mitigated:

- The risk of unforeseen neglect to renew.

- The risk unforeseen loss due to future incapacity or inability to pay renewal.

Forever domains are not for everyone.

If Epik is acquired, the acquirer contends with those inherited obligations.

However, for the folks that are concerned about price increases, there is a hedge. And for the folks who value their time, or don't like waking up in a panic, there is convenience and peace of mind.

Let's not over-think this -- for some folks Forever domains are a useful feature with win-win economics.
 
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Why do people buy insurance? They transfer risk.

Why do businesses hedge? They transfer risk.

Same story here. What risks are being mitigated:

- The risk of unforeseen neglect to renew.

- The risk unforeseen loss due to future incapacity or inability to pay renewal.

Forever domains are not for everyone.

If Epik is acquired, the acquirer contends with those inherited obligations.

However, for the folks that are concerned price increases, there is a hedge. And for the folks who value their time, or don't like waking up in a panic, there is convenience and peace of mind.

Let's not over-think this -- for some folks Forever domains are a useful feature with win-win economics.

It all depends on the price being charged for the forever domains, at a certain price It could make sense for domainers to take a chance with using this service for some of their domains.

Are there discounts for multiple domains and can the bill be paid in instalments.

IMO
 
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Why do people buy insurance? They transfer risk.

Why do businesses hedge? They transfer risk.

Same story here.

The problem here is you are offering products from a third party that you have no control over, and are not part of the agreement. It is a big issue.

However, for the folks that are concerned about price increases, there is a hedge.

Let's not over-think this -- for some folks Forever domains are a useful feature with win-win economics.

You can see in the Epik TOS (https://www.epik.com/forever.php), they have given themselves an out clause...

Cancellation

The User acknowledges that Epik may cancel the Forever Registration at any time for any reason, provided that Epik notifies the user via email and provided that the User receives a full refund of the price originally paid for the Forever Registration. Such cancellation shall release Epik from the obligation to renew the Forever Domain in the future and from any responsibility to pay or reimburse the User for future renewals or other costs.
But cancellation of a Forever Registration, if said cancellation is not requested by the User or a consequence of alleged abuse or non-compliance by the User, shall leave intact the Forever Domain's expiration date. In other words, such cancellation of the Forever Registration would result in the User receiving a domain renewal for the maximum period allowed by the TLD registry, paid at Epik's expense; and this service would have a net cost of zero for the User.
 
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The problem here is you are offering products from a third party that you have no control over, and are not part of the agreement. It is a big issue.



You can see in the Epik TOS (https://www.epik.com/forever.php), they have given themselves an out clause...

Cancellation

The User acknowledges that Epik may cancel the Forever Registration at any time for any reason, provided that Epik notifies the user via email and provided that the User receives a full refund of the price originally paid for the Forever Registration. Such cancellation shall release Epik from the obligation to renew the Forever Domain in the future and from any responsibility to pay or reimburse the User for future renewals or other costs. But cancellation of a Forever Registration, if said cancellation is not requested by the User or a consequence of alleged abuse or non-compliance by the User, shall leave intact the Forever Domain's expiration date. In other words, such cancellation of the Forever Registration would result in the User receiving a domain renewal for the maximum period allowed by the TLD registry, paid at Epik's expense; and this service would have a net cost of zero for the User.

We provide forever registration service for hundreds of TLDs.

The quoted clause exists for a reason:

(1) Extreme price increases: remember when Uni increases the price of some TLDs by up to 40X?

(2) If an eventual future acquirer decides that they could never support Forever registrations.

The result would be that the registrant gets 100% of their fee refunded AND they got a free ride for 10 or more years of registration along the way as Epik eats the entire expense.
 
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We provide forever registration service for hundreds of TLDs.

It exists for a reason:

(1) Extreme price increases: remember when Uni increases the price of some TLDs by 40X?

(2) If an eventual future acquirer decides they could never support Forever registrations.

The result would be that the registrant 100% of their fee refunded AND they got a free ride for 10 or more years of registration along the way as Epik eats the entire expense.

Yeah, I get it. Those are some reasons why this makes limited sense, especially without the registry on board.

So you are essentially willing to take some risk, but at the same time would have no problem canceling the agreement if it becomes unsustainable.

Any reasonable person should have the exact same questions and concerns that I have, when you are asking for hundreds of dollars up front and are offering a third party product that you have no control over.

Brad
 
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Why do people buy insurance? They transfer risk.

Why do businesses hedge? They transfer risk.

Same story here. What risks are being mitigated:

- The risk of unforeseen neglect to renew.

- The risk unforeseen loss due to future incapacity or inability to pay renewal.

Forever domains are not for everyone.

If Epik is acquired, the acquirer contends with those inherited obligations.

However, for the folks that are concerned about price increases, there is a hedge. And for the folks who value their time, or don't like waking up in a panic, there is convenience and peace of mind.

Let's not over-think this -- for some folks Forever domains are a useful feature with win-win economics.

You can see in the Epik TOS (https://www.epik.com/forever.php), they have given themselves an out clause...

Cancellation

The User acknowledges that Epik may cancel the Forever Registration at any time for any reason, provided that Epik notifies the user via email and provided that the User receives a full refund of the price originally paid for the Forever Registration. Such cancellation shall release Epik from the obligation to renew the Forever Domain in the future and from any responsibility to pay or reimburse the User for future renewals or other costs.
But cancellation of a Forever Registration, if said cancellation is not requested by the User or a consequence of alleged abuse or non-compliance by the User, shall leave intact the Forever Domain's expiration date. In other words, such cancellation of the Forever Registration would result in the User receiving a domain renewal for the maximum period allowed by the TLD registry, paid at Epik's expense; and this service would have a net cost of zero for the User.

We provide forever registration service for hundreds of TLDs.

The quoted clause exists for a reason:

(1) Extreme price increases: remember when Uni increases the price of some TLDs by up to 40X?

(2) If an eventual future acquirer decides that they could never support Forever registrations.

The result would be that the registrant gets 100% of their fee refunded AND they got a free ride for 10 or more years of registration along the way as Epik eats the entire expense.

Then I would rather renew the domain myself every 10 years, because if prices increase Epik may cancel the deal anyways, very uncertain.
 
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Here is a real scenario from this week. A widow calls about her suddenly deceased husband's domain portfolio. The widow had no foggy idea which domains to keep, had already lost one valuable domain, and had literally no money with which to fund renewals. This scenario has been happening often enough before COVID. My forecast is that it will happen more often post-COVID. Forever domains fix that. For the high value domains, it is an easy choice. For the guy who wants to play Russian roulette every year with domains worth more than $10K, they can do so but just make sure the spouse knows the game plan.
 
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Here is a real scenario from this week. A widow calls about her suddenly deceased husband's domain portfolio. The widow had no foggy idea which domains to keep, had already lost one valuable domain, and had literally no money with which to fund renewals. This scenario has been happening often enough before COVID. My forecast is that it will happen more often post-COVID. Forever domains fix that. For the high value domains, it is an easy choice. For the guy who wants to play Russian roulette every year with domains worth more than $10K, they can do so but just make sure the spouse knows the game plan.

The best way to sell a "cure", is to create fear in the minds of potential clients/patients.
 
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The best way to sell a "cure", is to create fear in the minds of potential clients/patients.

Registrar industry insider secret: owners of registrars love their expiry streams. Forever domains eliminate the expiry stream. NameLiquidate lets domains owners keep 91% of their expiry stream proceeds. You can call innovations like Forever domains and NameLiquidate as self-serving, but they actually co-create abundance and are win-win. Not sure what life is like looking for boogeymen, but can't be much fun!
 
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Registrar industry insider secret: owners of registrars love their expiry streams. Forever domains eliminate the expiry stream. NameLiquidate lets domains owners keep 91% of their expiry stream proceeds. You can call innovations like Forever domains and NameLiquidate as self-serving, but they actually co-create abundance and are win-win. Not sure what life is like looking for boogeymen, but can't be much fun!

@NamePros is it allowed to promote your own services/company and hijack a forum post, even if you are a "CEO"? I know it is not allowed to promote our own domains.
 
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