discuss Clean up the forum from the Narcissists Sociopaths and the Psychopaths who call themselves Domainers

[oldtimer]

These are people who take joy at verbally abusing others and who want to turn every discussion into a fight and by doing so they are standing in the way of informative and constructive debate and exchange of ideas. It seems that they never have anything positive to contribute to the discussions and they can not bear to see someone else having a different opinion than them. The end result is that they are causing for so many of the real experts in domaining to stay away from participating here and as such are doing a disservice to all the people who are here to learn how to become a successful but responsible and conscientious domainer.

Those who can not engage in respectful, professional, and proper interactions with other members here should not be given free rein over the forum.

IMO

 

[WhoaDomain.com]

AGREED @oldtimer

 

[Ategy]

Sigh ... agreed .. I know I've had way more than enough!

https://www.namepros.com/threads/wh...-4-types-of-improper-behaviour.1170668/unread

 

[Bravo Mod Team]

Those who can not engage in respectful, professional, and proper interactions with other members here should not be given free rein over the forum.

Agreed.

verbally abusing others

Please report these occurrences.

If you have additional time, please start a support thread about the specific occurrences so we can discuss them in more detail with you. That's likely the best way for us to fully understand all the moving parts that you see and we may not see.

Thanks.

 

[Ategy]

If you have additional time, please start a support thread about the specific occurrences so we can discuss them in more detail with you. That's likely the best way for us to fully understand all the moving parts that you see and we may not see.

I did that and LITERALLY sited and quoted DOZENS of instances of unprofessional behaviour .. but ... " " (nothing)

Are you seriously trying to tell me that in addition to all the ridiculousness of the last 2 years, that the additional escalated and extremely unprofessional behaviour of the last 3 months is something that's considered acceptable ??? Look at the thread I linked above .. then look at the links I linked to within that thread.

 

[Bravo Mod Team]

@Ategy,

We do not encourage public finger-pointing like you've done because it is unnecessary and creates a hostile environment. However, we typically do not disallow it either, but there are better ways to go about it.

Furthermore, we've responded extensively in your thread so please use that thread for that discussion.

Thanks.

 

[oldtimer]

@Mod Team Bravo , thanks for your support and your attention to this issue.

Constructive debate and engagement and exchange of ideas can bring value both to the members of the community here in the forum and also to the domain Industry at Large. Perhaps a new badge can be issued to those members who are willing to make a commitment to abide by the Universal rules of engagement and interaction like for example the way people behave and conduct themselves at International conferences. This way we know whom we can interact with and whom is best to ignore.

Those with the special badge who have made a commitment to be constructive, professional, and helpful in all their interactions and engagements with others can be an asset to the forum and the domain Industry at large. Although there is already a professional badge for some companies and Industry leaders, but that is geared more towards business, we need a special badge that is representative of the members commitment to proper behavior (even if they are a new member). And hopefully soon we will be able to change the atmosphere of the forum for the better by putting and end to some of the problems that are turning the good and knowledgeable domainers away from NamePros.

It's worth noting that people with the new badge can still disagree with one another and be critical of other's opinions and stands, but they have to do it in a professional, polite, and fair way instead of restoring to personal attack, accusation, and intimidation.

IMO

 

[Bravo Mod Team]

Perhaps a new badge can be issued to those members who are willing to make a commitment to abide by the Universal rules of engagement and interaction like for example the way people behave and conduct themselves at International conferences. This way we know whom we can interact with and whom is best to ignore.

This is an excellent idea, but it may not take into account that we all have good days and bad days. Sometimes, even the most helpful and constructive members can have a bad day. We've seen it many times where someone pushes their buttons the wrong way, and they act outside of their character. It can even happen repeatedly for a while if they feel strongly about an issue that has not been fully resolved to their satisfaction. It'd be unfortunate to have to remove the badge from someone who is acting out of character for a day, a week, or even once every couple months.

we need a special badge that is representative of the members commitment to proper behavior (even if they are a new member)

This idea is positive and encourages professionalism. It's similar to the system we already have in place, but it highlights the good instead of the bad.

Currently, the way we do this is as follows: everyone in good standing appears as a standard member, and then anyone who has been restricted (e.g., shown an inability or unwillingness to abide by the rules) is designated as such. Learn more about that in the Account Status thread (a new post is coming this week with more details).

The current solution is similar to: "innocent until proven guilty" where we assume everyone has made a pledge to abide by the rules until we see otherwise.

That said, a badge for those who have actually read all of the rules and given us their word that they will abide by them is a step above that and could create a more professional environment, which we always want to encourage.

Let's invite more feedback on the idea, which may be best achieved by you creating a new thread with that as the title.

 

[oldtimer]

This is an excellent idea, but it may not take into account that we all have good days and bad days. Sometimes, even the most helpful and constructive members can have a bad day. We've seen it many times where someone pushes their buttons the wrong way, and they act outside of their character. It can even happen repeatedly for a while if they feel strongly about an issue that has not been fully resolved to their satisfaction. It'd be unfortunate to have to remove the badge from someone who is acting out of character for a day, a week, or even once every couple months.


This idea is positive and encourages professionalism. It's similar to the system we already have in place, but it highlights the good instead of the bad.

Currently, the way we do this is as follows: everyone in good standing appears as a standard member, and then anyone who has been restricted (e.g., shown an inability or unwillingness to abide by the rules) is designated as such. Learn more about that in the Account Status thread (a new post is coming this week with more details).

The current solution is similar to: "innocent until proven guilty" where we assume everyone has made a pledge to abide by the rules until we see otherwise.

That said, a badge for those who have actually read all of the rules and given us their word that they will abide by them is a step above that and could create a more professional environment, which we always want to encourage.

Let's invite more feedback on the idea, which may be best achieved by you creating a new thread with that as the title.

Thanks for your feed back, it ultimately comes down to whether there is going to be a negative atmosphere here in the forum that attracts all the wrong kind of people who want to create a hostile environment that turns all the good and professional domainers away (even if they create a false sense of activity on the forum) or whether we want to have a professional and friendly atmosphere that encourages constructive debate and exchange of new ideas that can be of value to this community and that perhaps can encourage some of those who have already left to come back.

As far as people having a bad day it will be easier for them to control themselves if they have already made a commitment to abide by the Universal code of conduct and behavior that is used in any other professional gathering.

I also believe that having a new badge representing a commitment to proper conduct and behavior on the forum directly relates to the topic of this thread that I have already created.

One other thing to consider is that as long as people keep their commitment to this new badge they should not be judged or discriminated against in any way by others here the same as when people participate in any other public activity where people really don't know anything about each other and they are just all strangers who happen to have a common interest and so as long as people don't misbehave everyone should be allowed to partake in the conversations. Now if you want to turn the forum into some kind of a club where everyone has to be known by their real identity then perhaps you can set a certain standards as to whom can be accepted in that club, but otherwise we just have to go by how people are conducting themselves on the forum and protect those who are wearing the new badge against those who want to continue engaging in negative and abusive behavior.

IMO

 

[NameYourself]

As someone who has recently taken the time to become very familiar with all the rules, and then standards of each of those rules linked to within those rules pages, I can say that trying to quantify something like this to determine who deserves a badge and when someone doesn't or even deserves to have that 'merit' badge of sorts taken away, would be near impossible. Such things are ambiguous at best and very difficult to measure in some standard way. All situations are unique. What one person might consider constructive feedback on say an appraisal on their domain, another might view as 'disrespectful' or even an 'attack' both of which violate the standards for behavior linked to from the rules page. These things are hard to measure, but that's not to say there is no solution for it..

one way to help prevent such negative behavior I think is just to not engage it and encourage it. It seems every time this happens people break out their popcorn emoji and find joy and entertainment in the drama of other people's battles. It's definitely not healthy for anyone involved, but unless its something that directly effects you or is constructive to others in some way, its probably best to just ignore it completely. Stay out of useless drama and instead focus that time and energy reading, posting, and reacting to the kinds of things you do want to see more of. Every single post, comment, or reaction impacts the next. As its said, like begets like.

 

[oldtimer]

As someone who has recently taken the time to become very familiar with all the rules, and then standards of each of those rules linked to within those rules pages, I can say that trying to quantify something like this to determine who deserves a badge and when someone doesn't or even deserves to have that 'merit' badge of sorts taken away, would be near impossible. Such things are ambiguous at best and very difficult to measure in some standard way. All situations are unique. What one person might consider constructive feedback on say an appraisal on their domain, another might view as 'disrespectful' or even an 'attack' both of which violate the standards for behavior linked to from the rules page. These things are hard to measure, but that's not to say there is no solution for it..

one way to help prevent such negative behavior I think is just to not engage it and encourage it. It seems every time this happens people break out their popcorn emoji and find joy and entertainment in the drama of other people's battles. It's definitely not healthy for anyone involved, but unless its something that directly effects you or is constructive to others in some way, its probably best to just ignore it completely. Stay out of useless drama and instead focus that time and energy reading, posting, and reacting to the kinds of things you do want to see more of. Every single post, comment, or reaction impacts the next. As its said, like begets like.

So are you saying that there is no difference between someone such as yourself who has expressed his views (which perhaps might be considered to be opposing and different) in a professional manner compare to someone else who only wants to attack others and demean them without adding any value to the conversation itself one way or another.

IMO

 

[NameYourself]

No, there is certainly a difference between good and bad, and helpful vs destructive, I'm just saying much of the time it also involves a level of subjectivity which makes it a very hard thing at least for moderators to grade everyone on in some absolute, equal way. I guess it'd help to see specific examples of what you're talking about, but then again I don't know if I want to get swept up in a bunch of drama either

The idea of a merit badge is a good start, its just hard to universally grade everyone on equally given the complexity and dynamics of each and every situation. For instance, should certain words be banned, should only so many negative appraisals be allowed per so many positive ones for each person. Policing this type of thing in some perfect way would be a nightmare. But perhaps the rules of conduct can be made a little more specific to combat very obvious situations of abuse and negative behavior. Anyone have some additional ideas?

 

[oldtimer]

No, there is certainly a difference between good and bad, and helpful vs destructive, I'm just saying much of the time it also involves a level of subjectivity which makes it a very hard thing at least for moderators to grade everyone on in some absolute, equal way. I guess it'd help to see specific examples of what you're talking about, but then again I don't know if I want to get swept up in a bunch of drama either

The idea of a merit badge is a good start, its just hard to universally grade everyone on equally given the complexity and dynamics of each and every situation. For instance, should certain words be banned, should only so many negative appraisals be allowed per so many positive ones for each person. Policing this type of thing in some perfect way would be a nightmare. But perhaps the rules of conduct can be made a little more specific to combat very obvious situations of abuse and negative behavior. Anyone have some additional ideas?

The drama starts when someone jumps into a conversation which might otherwise be going very constructively and changes it into a fight not because they had an opposing or different view from the others, but simply because they want to get back at someone for whatever reason and by doing so they take a perfectly good thread off topic and ruin all the value that it might have been able to provide for the community.

We need to protect all members who are engaging in constructive debate and exchange of ideas from the trolls who want to derail their conversations and threads.

People are trolling for different reasons, some might have a problem as the title of this thread indicates and some might be attacking others that they might consider as their competitors or the competitors of the registrars and companies that they work for and some might just resent certain members or might even be getting paid or rewarded somehow to come here and cause problems for them, but for whatever reason that people are trolling and derailing some of the good threads on the forum we should not give free rein over the forum to those who have nothing positive to contribute to the community and who are causing many of the good and expert domainers to stay away from NamePros.

As far as giving appraisals it's not the low appraisals that are the problem as some domains might just not be worth much, but it's the language that some people use to give their appraisals that is the issue that bothers a lot of the members here specially the newbies that feel like they are going to get punched in the nose just for asking for an appraisal, people can give their honest opinion, but there is no reason to demean someone just because their domain might to be that great. some people even have ulterior motives for giving unreasonably low or negative appraisals in the hopes that others might buy domains off of them on the forum instead of hand registering anything themselves. I know that many of the domains in the appraisal threads are not that great, but they can't be all bad. I even have noticed some members who give very low appraisals on some very good domains just so that they can trick the other members into selling it to them for cheap, of course all that might go with domaining, but there is a difference if they think less of the domain than to demean the person who has asked for an appraisal and make them hate domaining.

IMO

 

[oldtimer]

Correction:

"newbies that feel like they are going to get punched in the nose just for asking for an appraisal, people can give their honest opinion, but there is no reason to demean someone just because their domain might not be that great"

 

[karmaco]

I believe the staff handles the worse of the offenders pretty well. Other than that, it sounds like censorship to me. Being “verbally abusive” is subject to interpretation. Everyone’s interpretation might be different.

There are strong personalities here like everywhere in life and there are people who are overly sensitive. We are adults and are going to debate things and disagree.

If we all have to be yes men it kind of defeats the purpose of the forum— healthy debate and knowledge from unique individuals.

If someone cusses you out —the staff will handle it. If someone issues a threat— the staff will deal with it. If anything else bothers you the report button is always available. The parameters in place are sufficient.

 

[oldtimer]

. The parameters in place are sufficient.

Then why is it that the CEOs and some of the top people of the domain Industry refuse to engage the NamePros community here which is supposed to be the main hub for domainers and domaining, well the answer is because we don't have a professional atmosphere here. When you say that the existing parameters are sufficient that might be true if you are comfortable and content with continuing to have a divide that currently exists between NamePros and the domain Industry experts and leaders.

IMO

 

[Bravo Mod Team]

Then why is it that the CEOs and some of the top people of the domain Industry refuse to engage the NamePros community here which is supposed to be the main hub for domainers and domaining, well the answer is because we don't have a professional atmosphere here. When you say that the existing parameters are sufficient that might be true if you are comfortable and content with continuing to have a divide that currently exists between NamePros and the domain Industry experts and leaders.

There are more industry CEO's and top people of the domain industry using NamePros than we've seen using any other single service. It may be unrealistic for them all to use a single service, and even more unrealistic for them all to use NamePros in the same way (e.g., posting rather than just reading).

There are over 100,000 to 300,000+ unique people using NamePros every month, but a small portion of those people post content. That is standard when it comes to products and services: far more people consume than create.

Here are some examples of ways that NamePros is used and reasons certain people prefer to use it without actively participating:

1. They use it as a news source and to keep up-to-date on the industry.
2. They do not have the time to contribute because they have many responsibilities.
   
3. They do not realize how much success (and new business) they could achieve by participating.
4. They do not want to engage in debates, which can be very time consuming.
5. They want or demand special treatment.
6. They want or demand heavy censorship.
7. Some of them have very big egos and cannot handle being challenged; they're used to people doing whatever they say.
8. Some of them are too sensitive (emotionally weak) to handle people disagreeing with them or saying things they do not like.

We can do things to solve some of these, but for the health and benefit of the community, we cannot do them all. We also believe that even if we did everything, such as heavy censorship, that they would still rarely participate because of other reasons, such as #2.

Forums (open community communication) are not for everyone, including "people at the very top" to "people just beginning."

However, it's still an excellent initiative to try to bring more of them to NamePros because it helps everyone, including them. As others have expressed, it would be quite difficult to appeal to some of them and could turn away a lot of other members due to the censorship that some CEO's have demanded from us in the past, which we refused to do.

NamePros is an open community that enables respectful exchanges. We rather cater to the majority than the desires of a few at the top because we believe that the majority of professionals on NamePros are good and have good intentions.

Still, we are always trying to think of ways to improve.

 

[oldtimer]

Still, we are always trying to think of ways to improve.

Thanks for the thorough explanations,

As a public forum that caters to the domain Industry NamePros has to find a balance between the demands and satisfaction of the many different people and groups that are using this forum from newbies to Industry experts and leaders and everyone in between, but in all honesty the forum is currently more tilted towards those who don't want to be bound by any standard of professional code of conduct and behavior. Foul and abusive language, personal attacks, and intimidation and demeaning of others has become the norm here and although it might have been okay with everyone in the past, but if NamePros is going to be the center of activity for all people involved in the domain Industry then all this negativity has to be brought under control, demanding that members don't engage in abusive and inappropriate behavior is not the same as censorship since people can still express their opposing opinions and be critical of others as long as they are not using foul and abusive language and are not resorting to underhanded personal attacks, uncalled for accusations, and bullying and intimidation.

We should do our best to protect those members who are bringing value to the community and the newbies who are here to learn and we should create a professional atmosphere that can encourage more on hands participation by the domain Industry experts and leaders.

We should not think of professionalism as a sign of weakness because it's actually exactly the opposite as those who are not behaving professionally are the weak ones since once you get past their foul language and aggression they amount to absolutely nothing as far as contributing anything of substance and value to the community and they usually disappear once they are faced with an argument that is presented to them in a professional and logical manner since their mined is not wired to handle that.

Make NamePros into the center of activity for everyone and don't allow any one group to ruin it for everyone else.

IMO

 

[JB Lions]

The end result is that they are causing for so many of the real experts in domaining to stay away from participating here and as such are doing a disservice to all the people who are here to learn how to become a successful but responsible and conscientious domainer.

As far as this, it's not that those domainers are not participating here because of "fights" and such, not sure if you've seen some of their blogs, Twitter accounts? Lots of times even worse than what you see here. It's more of what Mod Team Bravo touched on. I think after awhile and achieving a certain level of success, why get in debates with hobbyists/newbies who think they know it all? Some started on forums, made blogs because there is more control. Can't delete their blog posts, they can ban trolls, spammers etc. Some people here advocate for stuff that would keep them away. There is always going to be discussion, some of it heated but NP can do a better job of handling trolls and spammers. You many lose a bit of post count, but it'll help the overall quality.

 

[Bravo Mod Team]

In many ways, NamePros can be thought of as an industry conference: a place to network, meet with friends, make new friends, conduct business, learn, share, etc. Similar to a conference, a very small portion of attendees will speak at keynotes (produce content), but a much larger portion will browse around and observe passively.

One added benefit of conferences that is difficult to reproduce is the face-to-face interactions, which tend to be more professional by nature than online interactions. But we aim to match that level of professionalism. (That's not to say things never get heated at conferences; sometimes, even fights occur.)

In 2015, NamePros released expectations for respect and constructiveness for everyone in the professional community. NamePros recognized that there needed to be guidelines in place that allowed members to express themselves and their opinions but in a professional manner.

We, the moderators, are tasked with enforcing that policy. Admittedly, some moderator teams are more lenient than others: one team may decide that a post is "heated debate" while another team may decide that the same post is "antagonistic" and delete it. Most of these decisions are subjective and rarely overturned by another moderator who somewhat disagrees, but we do encourage the following:

If you feel strongly that a moderator has made a mistake, such as allowing problematic content to remain, and you feel that it needs to be removed to uphold the integrity of the community, then please Contact NamePros Management with your thoughts and with links to the related content. The management team is more likely than moderators to decide that a borderline post is unacceptable because they're not as desensitized to online discussion as us moderators.

We hope that helps.

 

[oldtimer]

Admittedly, some moderator teams are more lenient than others: one team may decide that a post is "heated debate" while another team may decide that the same post is "antagonistic" and delete it. Most of these decisions are subjective and rarely overturned by another moderator who somewhat disagrees,

Perhaps you can put a mechanism in place that moderators can consult with one another and vote on what needs to be done about repeated and sensitive situations that perhaps are and should be beyond the judgment of just one Moderator to handle alone.

Also in order to reform the attitudes on the forum perhaps you need to start by changing the mindsets and habits of the old hands Moderators who have become desensitized to some of the unprofessional behaviors that goes on in the forum.

After all we all depend on the Mods to be unbiased, fair, and professional themselves.

IMO

 

[oldtimer]

NamePros also needs to do something about the Trolls and Stalkers who seem to want to derail any conversation and thread that doesn't fit their own political, racial, religious (or lack thereof), or financial interests and agendas. These Trolls and Stalkers can cause a big loss to the community here by causing the members who are bringing value to the forum through their contributions to leave because of being targeted and harassed.


IMO

 

[oldtimer]

Why are certain members allowed to continue with Trolling and Stalking!

 

[Bravo Mod Team]

Why are certain members allowed to continue with Trolling and Stalking!

Please report it, or open a support request to discuss it in more detail. If you've already reported it, then open a support ticket because we either don't understand and need more details, or we disagree with you about what is happening. In either case, it's likely worthwhile to discuss it in more detail.

 

[Bravo Mod Team]

After all we all depend on the Mods to be unbiased, fair, and professional themselves.

We absolutely are all of these things, but it's important to understand what that means and what it doesn't mean:

Unbiased:

• It means we will not make decisions toward anyone or anything based on prejudice, self-interests, etc. We will be consistent in our actions as individuals, but each of us may act differently (e.g., make different decisions) regarding the same situation.
• It doesn't mean we will all handle subjective matters the same way because everyone has their own perspective and life experiences that cannot be removed from our interpretation of certain situations.

Fair:

• It means we will handle every situation and treat everyone the same regardless of who is involved (e.g., CEO of a large company vs. a newcomer), anyone's present or past relationship with NamePros (e.g., an advertiser, upgraded account, or free account), etc.
• It doesn't mean you will agree that our actions are correct or just.

Professional:

• It means we will conduct ourselves respectfully, constructively, skillfully, tactfully, knowledgeably, and competently when interacting with members and in our decision making.
• It doesn't mean you will agree that we are upholding professional standards of others to the same degree.

We hope that helps.