discuss Domain Myths and Lies

[ThatNameGuy]

I'd like to start this thread with the statement I hear so often from "so called" professionals in the domain industry, "All the Good Domains, especially the .coms are already taken"

This couldn't be further from the truth Having started, operated and yes NAMED dozens of businesses in my lifetime, I know better. Regardless of the business you're looking to start, chances are I can find or locate a name that's more than satisfactory to run/operate your business within an hour. Seriously, naming a business isn't rocket science, but to listen to those who make a living from the domain industry, they would like for you to think it is

Having discovered this industry just a little over two years ago, I've hand registered a couple thousand names of which I still own a little over a thousand of which 80% are more than satisfactory for running a business.

Other myths to discuss;

"Shorter is better"

"Older is better"

"New gTLD's are garbage"

Please feel free to chime in. Thanks

 

[Joe N]

Moving on......i don't think you understand the difference between spamming and strategic targeted marketing. You would probably need to go back to school to learn the difference.

I'd actually be interested in hearing some more about this, Rich. I had the same concerns as @MrAcidic when you mentioned predictive dialers and email blasts.

Spam is actually defined to be any unsolicited bulk email, so email blasts would certainly qualify. The practice isn't illegal in the US as long as you follow certain rules, but the conversion rates are definitely extremely low (also mentioned above).

One of your issues will be that many people already use this tactic to attempt to sell domain names, so unless you customize each email (time-consuming) and select only very relevant potential buyers (can be tricky, and also time-consuming), your emails become part of the white noise that is internet spam.

As an example... Let's say you email 100 NYC businesses about the name SavorManhattan.com, and a couple days later I email the same businesses about the name AmazingNYC.com, then a couple days after that they get an email about NewYorkDream.com. How will your name be the one that stands out? Why are these businesses going to subjectively feel that SavorManhattan is such a good brand that they: a) must pay a premium to own it, and b) don't mind being spammed about it?

I know you don't think much about the domain industry, Rich. But I do think it's important to acknowledge that there are many many smart people (marketers, business owners, etc) who have already experimented with all these ideas. If you ignore what's already been done, and don't benefit from the knowledge already available, you'll ultimately be spinning your wheels. Work smarter not harder, right?

 

[ThatNameGuy]

I'd actually be interested in hearing some more about this, Rich. I had the same concerns as @MrAcidic when you mentioned predictive dialers and email blasts.

Spam is actually defined to be any unsolicited bulk email, so email blasts would certainly qualify. The practice isn't illegal in the US as long as you follow certain rules, but the conversion rates are definitely extremely low (also mentioned above).

One of your issues will be that many people already use this tactic to attempt to sell domain names, so unless you customize each email (time-consuming) and select only very relevant potential buyers (can be tricky, and also time-consuming), your emails become part of the white noise that is internet spam.

As an example... Let's say you email 100 NYC businesses about the name SavorManhattan.com, and a couple days later I email the same businesses about the name AmazingNYC.com, then a couple days after that they get an email about NewYorkDream.com. How will your name be the one that stands out? Why are these businesses going to subjectively feel that SavorManhattan is such a good brand that they: a) must pay a premium to own it, and b) don't mind being spammed about it?

I know you don't think much about the domain industry, Rich. But I do think it's important to acknowledge that there are many many smart people (marketers, business owners, etc) who have already experimented with all these ideas. If you ignore what's already been done, and don't benefit from the knowledge already available, you'll ultimately be spinning your wheels. Work smarter not harder, right?

OK Joe...i don't have much time to address your concerns, but while having a 2 hour lunch with the recently retired marketing professor, he too found it hard to believe how the domain business model works, or doesn't work? Keep in mind, like me he knew very little about the domain industry having taught marketing to many thousands of students over the years.

So let me share with you his response when I told him the typical domainer who might own SavorManhattan.com may have bought it from another domainer or at auction, but in my case I hand registered the name for $8.50 about six months ago. Then what the typical domainer would do, is list it for sale at registries "end users" never heard of like Sedo, Uniregistry, Flippa etc., and then forget about it. Then he asked, what do you mean "forget about it"? Then I explained the 1-2% annual sales rate, and the fact the domainer needs to pay to re-register each domain annually, I thought he would fall off his chair Then when he asked if I owned any other domains using the "keyword" Savor/Savour, and I explained that I own 25 - 30 domains using the keyword Savor he understood immediately WHY.

Joe, you probably don't remember this, but when I saw a brilliant publication/magazine called "Savor Virginia", with "Virginia" inside the "O" on the cover of the magazine, I thought, how cool

The point I want to make here Joe is that domains like SavorRome.com, SavortheGrape.com and even SavorGolf.com are PERFECT names for publications/magazines. So who might you target for these domains Joe? If you don't know, or don't know how to get an email or call magazine publishers world wide, you'll never understand.

This is all I have time for Joe

 

[xynames]

Almost all of the domains he picks such as savormanhattan pass some sort of radio test in his head but fail a basic analysis of ... what is the market? To be fair most domaining newcomers make the same mistake but these newcomers eventually sharpen their picking skills or suffer a Darwinian demise.

savormanhattan’s market would be...as he more or less points out himself, some kind of startup that wants to write about or explore in some way what manhattan has to offer. Problem is it’s a micro set (those wanting to expand on manhattan) of a small subset to begin with (the subset being the geo centric not even city, of manhattan). Before buying such a domain I’d take a look and see how many “exploremanhattan” type sites there are and whether there’s even much of a need for a site with such a narrow focus, using a term like “savor.” And then I’d think about whether the term savor is even that great of a defining verb in this context and whether other verbs “like” “enjoy” “love” “explore” couldn’t do the job just as well making the domain less unique less valuable and more interchangeable with a lot of other domains that might even be available to hand register.

Finally the fact that the domain was available to hand register and has been passed on by countless billions of brains in the history of the internet makes most experienced domainers at least pause and think about why this might be - and whether it’s due to that the name just plain stinks or might have been passed by because of a new need market or expansion on the words in question (think i.e. crypto domains etc.). In the former case (“stinks”), you pass, in the latter case (new emerging market) you might buy.

With ThatNameGuy I’d wager that none of these filtering thoughts come into play - as long as the domain “sounds brilliant to him,” he pulls the trigger, to the tune now, of thousands of domains. If there’s any benefit to following this nameguy, it’s in learning not to be too eager to assume that we know everything and to think more deeply on buying hand regs that no one in the history of the internet has bothered to pick up.

 

[BaileyUK]

Trying to leave personalities aside, It isn't hard to recognize that this particular member sees one example of a particular word, Usually a 'descriptive' in a particular context, then goes overboard on varying applications of that said 'Word' and unfortunately most (If not all) are just not any good.

It probably all comes down to an over stimulated imagination. God knows where he would be if there were 48 hours in a day. I think most of us would recognize when it's time to stop registering domains and take stock. Unfortunately in this particular members mindset that 'Pause' just seems to be a cue to change-direction to whatever the next 'Attention grabber' (or should that be lack-of attention) is that enters his head.

I admire his persistence in trying to reach-out to prospective partners. but unfortunately there appears to be nothing on the table for a perspective partner other than just a lot of hot-air . I suppose the one good thing about making so many posts about all these ideas (mostly just repeats of the same thing) is that everyone gets lots of opportunity to become aware of how NOT to get into the Domaining.

I can only liken it to 'Attention deficit disorder' I do wonder how long it will take for the inevitable outcome and awareness to finally come home to roost

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Almost all of the domains he picks such as savormanhattan pass some sort of radio test in his head but fail a basic analysis of ... what is the market? To be fair most domaining newcomers make the same mistake but these newcomers eventually sharpen their picking skills or suffer a Darwinian demise.

savormanhattan’s market would be...as he more or less points out himself, some kind of startup that wants to write about or explore in some way what manhattan has to offer. Problem is it’s a micro set (those wanting to expand on manhattan) of a small subset to begin with (the subset being the geo centric not even city, of manhattan). Before buying such a domain I’d take a look and see how many “exploremanhattan” type sites there are and whether there’s even much of a need for a site with such a narrow focus, using a term like “savor.” And then I’d think about whether the term savor is even that great of a defining verb in this context and whether other verbs “like” “enjoy” “love” “explore” couldn’t do the job just as well making the domain less unique less valuable and more interchangeable with a lot of other domains that might even be available to hand register.

Finally the fact that the domain was available to hand register and has been passed on by countless billions of brains in the history of the internet makes most experienced domainers at least pause and think about why this might be - and whether it’s due to that the name just plain stinks or might have been passed by because of a new need market or expansion on the words in question (think i.e. crypto domains etc.). In the former case (“stinks”), you pass, in the latter case (new emerging market) you might buy.

With ThatNameGuy I’d wager that none of these filtering thoughts come into play - as long as the domain “sounds brilliant to him,” he pulls the trigger, to the tune now, of thousands of domains. If there’s any benefit to following this nameguy, it’s in learning not to be too eager to assume that we know everything and to think more deeply on buying hand regs that no one in the history of the internet has bothered to pick up.

So do you know who this guy is: https://www.namepros.com/threads/domain-myths-and-lies.1162896/page-2#post-7493266

Don't you know how "sexy" the words "Savor" and "Savour" are?

and SavorManhattan wouldn't make a great name for the finest in cuisine in Manhattan?

I know you enjoy critiquing my every move, but while you were in law school I was starting, operating and yes NAMING businesses for a living. Now you will have to excuse me because I just learned that SavorParis.com and SavorMaine.com are available. You may not know anything about either Paris or Maine, but I've been to Paris twice and Maine a half dozen times so there's a long shot chance the $17 I spend to add these names to my portfolio just may be worth the risk

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Trying to leave personalities aside, It isn't hard to recognize that this particular member sees one example of a particular word, Usually a 'descriptive' in a particular context, then goes overboard on varying applications of that said 'Word' and unfortunately most (If not all) are just not any good.

It probably all comes down to an over stimulated imagination. God knows where he would be if there were 48 hours in a day. I think most of us would recognize when it's time to stop registering domains and take stock. Unfortunately in this particular members mindset that 'Pause' just seems to be a cue to change-direction to whatever the next 'Attention grabber' (or should that be lack-of attention) is that enters his head.

I admire his persistence in trying to reach-out to prospective partners. but unfortunately there appears to be nothing on the table for a perspective partner other than just a lot of hot-air . I suppose the one good thing about making so many posts about all these ideas (mostly just repeats of the same thing) is that everyone gets lots of opportunity to become aware of how NOT to get into the Domaining.

I can only liken it to 'Attention deficit disorder' I do wonder how long it will take for the inevitable outcome and awareness to finally come home to roost

As for you Bailey, do you know this guy? https://www.namepros.com/threads/domain-myths-and-lies.1162896/page-2#post-7493266
Have you ever been to Maine?, Manhattan?. Now I know there's a chance you've been to Paris. How do they say it there? Savor or Savour....inquiring minds would luv to know. Cheers 'ol chap!

 

[NickB]

Done with this thread.......

 

[ForexTopNews]

As with any commerce or sale, an item or service is only as valuable as what the purchaser is willing to pay for it.

 

[Windoms]

@ThatNameGuy he's right when he says

Almost all of the domains he picks such as savormanhattan pass some sort of radio test in his head but fail a basic analysis of ... what is the market? To be fair most domaining newcomers make the same mistake

Your domains are not bad, they all sound good and because you might have a lot, maybe some are good.
Here is the thing.
You haven't started selling them, meaning no landers or / listing them on marketplaces.
You should do that right away, for all your domains. With make offer, at least, if for some reason you don't want to ruin your valuation or whatever.
You can also set bin and activate afternic fast transfer with a lander set on make offer, no future customer from the time when your plan is ready will be able to know about previous pricing.
Using conventional methods, you could have already had 2 years of expertise. If you don't try to sell your domains the conventional way, you won't learn what sells and what doesn't.

I like domain investing because even if you have expertise from another industry, you still have to spend time and money before you know what you are acquiring and how to price it correctly.
Having $1.000 vs $50.000 on day 1 won't help with that learning curve.

You learn faster and better when you actually put them for sale, the conventional way.
Not trying to sell them only slows you down.
Also a critical fact is that a good brand is not the same as a good domain name.
You have experience naming businesses, your names sound good, but your targeted markets might be too narrow to make your names good domains that sell.
List them for sale and see what sells / gets offers, while following your original plan.

 

[Joe N]

So who might you target for these domains Joe? If you don't know, or don't know how to get an email or call magazine publishers world wide, you'll never understand.

Ok, but can you help me understand? In the name of helping/teaching those of us who don't have your same vision and experience?

 

[branding]

I'm not so sure how easily it can be done? I've trademarked four, now five names with the last one being 9Time™. I'm far from an expert, and I'm sure you've had a lot more experience. I just know I can't trademark IBM, and as a VAR, I sold IBM systems for years

Yeah, you may run into some obstacles trying to obtain a trademark for IBM depending on the category you file it for as it's such a well known brand.

I'm not sure if their tm covers sports but theoretically you should be be able to trandemark the term IBM for a new golf brand if it doesn't.

 

[Joe N]

Now I know there's a chance you've been to Paris. How do they say it there? Savor or Savour....inquiring minds would luv to know.

I think they say "saveur"...

 

[wurdd]

Savor Golf. Savor Golf. Savor Golf. Hmmmmm, I like the way that sounds. I think you might be on to something.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

@ThatNameGuy he's right when he says

Your domains are not bad, they all sound good and because you might have a lot, maybe some are good.
Here is the thing.
You haven't started selling them, meaning no landers or / listing them on marketplaces.
You should do that right away, for all your domains. With make offer, at least, if for some reason you don't want to ruin your valuation or whatever.
You can also set bin and activate afternic fast transfer with a lander set on make offer, no future customer from the time when your plan is ready will be able to know about previous pricing.
Using conventional methods, you could have already had 2 years of expertise. If you don't try to sell your domains the conventional way, you won't learn what sells and what doesn't.

You learn faster and better when you actually put them for sale, the conventional way.
Not trying to sell them only slows you down.
Also a critical fact is that a good brand is not the same as a good domain name.
You have experience naming businesses, your names sound good, but your targeted markets might be too narrow to make your names good domains that sell.
List them for sale and see what sells / gets offers, while following your original plan.

Windoms...it turns out my rep at Go Daddy Mike Fear has really let me down. He was suppose to take charge of my portfolio of a little over a thousand names over six months ago, but when I realized he had dropped the ball about a month ago he apologized, and I supposedly approved a new file to be listed at Afernic a little over a week ago, but I still don't see them listed. SavorManhattan, SavorCanada and CatchGourmet are just three of about 600 I approved for sale, and I still don't see them listed? I just sent him an email, and he should be embarrassed as hell, and I told him in the email that I expected ALL my names to show for sale by no later than Monday at midnight.

Now...yours was one of the nicest critical posts Windoms I've read, and it motivated me....than you You're right about me having pretty good names, I've always known that, and I'm getting better and better at this game every day. Despite all this, I actually have sold a few domains off the grid. I'm determined NOT to share any sales information here because that's an exercise in futility That's all I got, and thanks again.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Ok, but can you help me understand? In the name of helping/teaching those of us who don't have your same vision and experience?

Of all my Savorxxxxxx.com domains SavorGolf is ok, but names like SavorManhattan, SavorCanada, SavorEarth and SavourGreen.org ad SavorFitness are all better in my opinion. Besides, when traditional golf dies, and 9Time™ replaces it, there will be no need for SavorGolf

 

[Joe N]

Of all my Savorxxxxxx.com domains SavorGolf is ok, but names like SavorManhattan, SavorCanada, SavorEarth and SavourGreen.org ad SavorFitness are all better in my opinion. Besides, when traditional golf dies, and 9Time™ replaces it, there will be no need for SavorGolf

But can you help us to understand why "savor" is the one keyword above all others that buyers will decide is perfect for their needs?

 

[ThatNameGuy]

But can you help us to understand why "savor" is the one keyword above all others that buyers will decide is perfect for their needs?

i aleady told you, it's sexy, sophisticated, refined and worldly

 

[Joe N]

i aleady told you, it's sexy, sophisticated, refined and worldly

But aren't those subjective opinions?

If I understand correctly... You expect that by telling various NYC publishers about this domain name, they'll recognize what a great name it would make for a publication, and will buy it from you for the purpose of creating that publication?

I'm 100% not mocking the idea, Rich. I just want to understand. Are you selling names they currently need, or are you selling ideas you believe they will want, and will thus pay a premium for your domains to pursue those ideas?

 

[ThatNameGuy]

But aren't those subjective opinions?

If I understand correctly... You expect that by telling various NYC publishers about this domain name, they'll recognize what a great name it would make for a publication, and will buy it from you for the purpose of creating that publication?

I'm 100% not mocking the idea, Rich. I just want to understand. Are you selling names they currently need, or are you selling ideas you believe they will want, and will thus pay a premium for your domains to pursue those ideas?

NO...do you want to pay for my research Joe?....i'm sure you can't afford it

 

[Joe N]

NO...do you want to pay for my research Joe?....i'm sure you can't afford it

Okay, you're not selling an idea and a name. Just a name. And buyers will want the name because "savor" is sexy, sophisticated, refined, and worldly.

So as other domain investors wanting to understand the methods you're teaching, how do we translate this strategy into our own successes? How do we know when a name or keyword is sexy and sophisticated enough to entice a potential buyer?

 

[Randolph]

"Shorter is better"
Grammar and usability are better. 4-letters especially, are hyped up with no real-world use. Normal people don't care if they have to type 15 characters — or 3+ words — as long as it's memorable and easy to spell. They definitely don't get stars in their eyes when they see a business with a short/4-letter domain.

"Older is better"
Lazy domainers love this one. Older domains that haven't been used and been flip-flopping web pages for years are heavily penalized by search engines. A new domain that starts popping up everywhere (links, etc) will rank better, faster.

"New gTLD's are garbage"
If it works, it works. But as you move down the tiers of TLD popularity, there is an exponential drop in value, trust, and usability.

 

[bmugford]

MYTH - Experience in other fields will automatically lead to success with domains.
MYTH - Name dropping will lead to sales.

Truth - Fake it until you make it doesn't work that well in this field. Most experienced domain investors can see right through it.

Truth - Talking about what you are going to do, but never actually doing it, will not lead to sales.

Truth - If you have limited experience and results in the field, you have limited credibility.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

"Shorter is better"
Grammar and usability are better. 4-letters especially, are hyped up with no real-world use. Normal people don't care if they have to type 15 characters — or 3+ words — as long as it's memorable and easy to spell. They definitely don't get stars in their eyes when they see a business with a short/4-letter domain.

"Older is better"
Lazy domainers love this one. Older domains that haven't been used and been flip-flopping web pages for years are heavily penalized by search engines. A new domain that starts popping up everywhere (links, etc) will rank better, faster.

"New gTLD's are garbage"
If it works, it works. But as you move down the tiers of TLD popularity, there is an exponential drop in value, trust, and usability.

Randolph...all good answers....so you're a Full-stack engineer? I thought that meant you weren't playing with a full deck This helped; https://skillcrush.com/2017/02/27/front-end-back-end-full-stack/ Thanks again for your honest straight forward anlaysis.

 

[Josh R]

 

[ThatNameGuy]

You just don't know how much I LOVE seeing you waste your time with me, even if it's just a few seconds...carry on Tiger