Domain Layaway and Post-pay Backorders

[Rob Monster]

In the last few weeks, a number of folks have asked me to register names for them as a courtesy with assurance of settling up a bit later. Usually it was some opportunistic hand-registration that was just not in the budget that day. It caused me to ponder about the need for a domain layaway, i.e. the ability to register a domain and and settle up a bit later, e.g. like a post-pay tasting period of up to 72 hours.

As for backorders, Epik already has the cheapest refundable backorders around, e g. $8.49 for .COM. However, many folks cannot afford to tie up $8.49 deposits and some do not even have a credit card that works reliably due to increasingly unfriendly banking practices in some parts of the world. This raised the question of whether Epik should introduce the option of post-pay backorders and again have a 72 hour settlement.

Candidly, I have not assessed the engineering task to deploy these changes but I wanted to assess the market appetite for introducing up to a 72 hour settlement window for approved accounts. To be clear, I don't imagine giving this capability to everyone. However, consistent with our relationship-based approach, I think there might be value in introducing some innovation around these 2 areas to help with bootstrap liquidity.

 

[capybara]

I'd use it for the speed (although two-steps still needed to minimize typo risk). To prevent abuse, it could be given only to people with existing registrations which would be taken hostage in case of debt.

One of my oldest registrars has been doing so for ages, 30 day payment window after names are registered. I think there's a limit on the credit but never maxed it so I'm not sure.

Which registrar is that?

 

[Ategy]

First and foremost .. if someone can't afford to pay for a domain, I strongly advise them not to acquire any new domains.

Epik has a loan program (still curious how that works), which I think would be the more appropriate route for any domainer who needs short term liquidity.

One big problem it will create is that people will jam the system each putting the 100 top drops of the day in the system .. so effectively, unless you have an auction system instead of the first come first served, it's going to be a mess and you'll actually have a lot more disappointments than anything else.

On the same level it could be good for some depending on their and Epik's drop success ratio .. meaning that if in general they only get about 10% of their attempted drop catches, then yes, not paying for 30 backorders when they only successfully end up with 3 would be very beneficial.


Obviously there's also the positive that if someone fails to pay, and it's a good domain, well then Epik just got itself a good domain by trying to do something nice for someone.


In the end I think it's something that would just flood the system on the best domains .. you'll end up with more frustrated clients than happy ones.

However .. it's one of those things where all of the above advice (all 50 posts so far .. including my own .. lol) is really just guesses .. the only way to give an appropriate answer would be to know Epik's current number of daily domain drop-catches ordered, and the success ratio. With knowing the underlaying facts and stats it's effectively throwing darts blindfolded ...

- "There are no right or wrong answers to an unknown equation!" - Ategy 2019

 

[frank-germany]

I think Rob is trying to tap into countries like Nigeria etc...

why the heck Nigeria again?
these people get hurt by those kind of posts !

 

[frank-germany]

Lol. Look at that jab? Despite repeated corrections and complaints from some monikers here like @frank germany @karmaco and a host of others like that, i can see this aint gonna stop anytime soon. WTF is " those inheritance emails" ? Lol

is that a compliment?

 

[frank-germany]

As per the ICANN Registrar Accreditation Agreement:

3.7.4 Registrar shall not activate any Registered Name unless and until it is satisfied that it has received a reasonable assurance of payment of its registration fee. For this purpose, a charge to a credit card, general commercial terms extended to creditworthy customers, or other mechanism providing a similar level of assurance of payment shall be sufficient, provided that the obligation to pay becomes final and non-revocable by the Registered Name Holder upon activation of the registration.

Post-pay idea is incompatible with the RAA, what are we speaking about... already 2 pages... ?

monthly billing with post-payment is default in Germany for resellers

 

[frank-germany]

Let's be totally honest here for a change. This is about Rob promoting Epik as usual. It's not about helping others at all. It's self promotion as most of he's posts are. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with promoting your business but it's relentless.Plus I believe there is a moral issue here. If someone hasn't got 8 bucks to register a name in the first place, surely this would just put them further into debt and we all know that buying domain names can be addictive. Yes I know I will probably get some backlash from this but sometimes common sense should be the priority.

when you are right,
you are right.

 

[frank-germany]

You have to pay upfront currently if you want to backorder at Epik. Sure the fee is low but why pay upfront when you are only going to actually get some of them.

so was the $199 USD upfront payment for a backorder .com at epik dropped?

 

[frank-germany]

Epik has a loan program (still curious how that works), which I think would be the more appropriate route for any domainer who needs short term liquidity.

the epik loan program ....

yes domainers welcome.

I have applied for a loan lets say 1 or 2 years ago
for 1 of my domains at epik

its pending ........

 

[frank-germany]

@Rob Monster

there are only 2 mentions of epik in the "popular this month" box
whats wrong?

doing 7 replies in a row won't push this thread too much...
won't it?

 

[Cal2]

Let's be totally honest here for a change. This is about Rob promoting Epik as usual. It's not about helping others at all.

On your last point, you know this How?

 

[Samer]

On your last point, you know this How?

He follows him around, works for opposition

best part about Rob, is the the discussion!!

Never thinking he’s too important or above, and always listens suggestions, improvement,
eats them up on the inside,

 

[Rob Monster]

so was the $199 USD upfront payment for a backorder .com at epik dropped?

ICYMI, the backorders for NP members are $8.49. However it is still up front. We are looking at how to shift that to a post-pay model to further level the playing field.

the epik loan program ....

yes domainers welcome.

I have applied for a loan lets say 1 or 2 years ago
for 1 of my domains at epik

its pending ........

As for your old loan request, the domain is not at Epik so it was rejected. You would likely otherwise be eligible for an interest-free Domain Loan.

 

[Trinicon Industries]

@Rob Monster

Thanks for being engaged with the Community! Haven't dealt with you personally yet, but seeing your constant presence at the forums is great judge of your dedication.

How many other registrars/owners are on here? Not saying they aren't but I don't see them.

I am for the idea and any other idea you have to help out so long as you can structure proper for your business.

Grass roots community response based innovation is valid and appreciated.

IMHO

 

[Cal2]

He follows him around, works for opposition

Laguna works for the opposition? Any evidence for that?

 

[Samer]

Laguna works for the opposition? Any evidence for that?

None

Context: “affiliation” “stakeholder” involvement loyalty, with the “friendly competition.”

he’s obv not a Rob fan... need proof for that?

 

[Laguna]

None

Context: “affiliation” “stakeholder” involvement loyalty, with the “friendly competition.”

he’s obv not a Rob fan... need proof for that?

Actually you couldn't be more wrong. I am a fan of Rob. He's hardworking, intelligent and polite. Just because I didn't agree with he's last idea and constant promotion of Epik doesn't mean i don't like him. So please, if your going to mention my name in your replies, get your facts right.
Peace

 

[Cal2]

he’s obv not a Rob fan... need proof for that?

Thanks, but not necessary.

The rest of Laguna's post that I was quoting previously doesn't necessarily read like he's against Rob, but more about how Rob is going about promoting things.

Edit: As per Laguna's latest post.

 

[Rob Monster]

Actually you couldn't be more wrong. I am a fan of Rob. He's hardworking, intelligent and polite. Just because I didn't agree with he's last idea and constant promotion of Epik doesn't mean i don't like him. So please, if your going to mention my name in your replies, get your facts right.
Peace

Thanks for clarifying.

Quick commentary on this theme:

- I have been fairly selfless in teaching and sharing what works. I know first-hand that there are people who are financially better off on NamePros because things I showed them. I encourage them to teach others. I also encourage the whole NP community to make the pie bigger. I think that theme is consistent.

- I have been proactive in inviting co-creation, i.e. proactively sharing new ideas without much concern about who copies or steals the ideas. I have plenty. I do this as a market researcher (my first job at P&G, ICYMI). I value the intellectual capacity of this community and seek input. I think this too is consistent.

- I have also placed an emphasis on investing back into the industry. Shortly you will see a new DomainGraduate.com powered by Epik that is completely free. This will be a first fruit from eRise.org, our Digital Empowerment platform. I think this too is consistent.

As for the topic of shameless self-promotion, as some have accused me, I think there is a difference between randomly inserting a reference to Epik in arbitrary threads, versus what I actually do which is refer to Epik with illustrative examples, as needed, but always in context.

If my agenda was purely to make Epik a huge company, I am sure that I would not have been openly declarative about my personal positions on certain controversial topics in various NP threads. Suffice it to say that my motivations are more to empower than to conquer. Money is a means to an end.

So, yes, Digital Empowerment is a cause that enthuses me. Epik is doing some novel things there. Personal productivity also enthuses me. I have learned a few things, and share them openly. Along the way, I might annoy a few folks. That is not my intention.

 

[Cal2]

Actually you couldn't be more wrong. I am a fan of Rob. He's hardworking, intelligent and polite.

So then what's behind the last statement in this:

Let's be totally honest here for a change. …. . It's not about helping others at all.

 

[Lox]

It's not about helping others at all. It's self promotion as most of he's posts are.

In last 3 months... how many NPro's are employed by Rob/Epik? 1, 3, 5, 6, 8 ...? Feeding bellies, bringing certainty to uncertainty (and how can he keep up without promotion?)

Regards

 

[Mister Funsky]

I didn't read the thread but as far as the back orders go, the price is fair. I have not been successful catching any names so far...there always seem to be one person ahead of me in the Epik que.

Since I take advantage of the prefund prices for renewals and sometimes they sneak up on me, having a day or so to get funds transferred may help...but considering my domain addiction, it may not be a good thing for me if I have a small window of 'free regs'.

 

[handpicked]

Since domaining is all about timing, IMO 10 Regs a month on promo code per user on this scheme can be a backup, just in case the card won't work for that moment, people who don't put their code simply pay upfront.

 

[oldtimer]

...but considering my domain addiction, it may not be a good thing for me if I have a small window of 'free regs'.

It's not going to feed anyone's domain addiction if Epik (Rob) evaluates your wish list and approves the ones that have good potential and let's you put them on layaway, that actually helps to cut down on a lot of useless domains from being registered. That's what can be considered as providing real help to people as oppose to domainers suggesting domains and getting just a little bounty for their efforts while someone else handpicks the best domains off their list to register for themselves.

IMO

 

[Mister Funsky]

It's not going to feed anyone's domain addiction if Epik (Rob) evaluates your wish list and approves the ones that have good potential and let's you put them on layaway, that actually helps to cut down on a lot of useless domains from being registered. That's what can be considered as providing real help as oppose to domainers suggesting domains and getting just a little bounty for their efforts while someone else handpicks the best domains off their list to register for themselves.

I do not refer to anyone eless addiction other than my own...plus I never register a useless domain. I spend too much time to search for and evaluate names to suggest a name to anyone for any reason...unless they pay me to do so of course.

 

[aifenhao]

In the last few weeks, a number of folks have asked me to register names for them as a courtesy with assurance of settling up a bit later. Usually it was some opportunistic hand-registration that was just not in the budget that day. It caused me to ponder about the need for a domain layaway, i.e. the ability to register a domain and and settle up a bit later, e.g. like a post-pay tasting period of up to 72 hours.

As for backorders, Epik already has the cheapest refundable backorders around, e g. $8.49 for .COM. However, many folks cannot afford to tie up $8.49 deposits and some do not even have a credit card that works reliably due to increasingly unfriendly banking practices in some parts of the world. This raised the question of whether Epik should introduce the option of post-pay backorders and again have a 72 hour settlement.

Candidly, I have not assessed the engineering task to deploy these changes but I wanted to assess the market appetite for introducing up to a 72 hour settlement window for approved accounts. To be clear, I don't imagine giving this capability to everyone. However, consistent with our relationship-based approach, I think there might be value in introducing some innovation around these 2 areas to help with bootstrap liquidity.

I think that this will create a precedent for fraud, that is, a person orders a domain, uses it for free for three days (for example, puts it in the parking lot and receives income) and does not redeem his order.