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What do you think of the idea of a grant and microfinance program?

  • This poll is still running and the standings may change.
  • Brilliant idea - Go for it!

    53 
    votes
    42.7%
  • Good idea but you are in for a tough run

    19 
    votes
    15.3%
  • Long shot but it just might work

    22 
    votes
    17.7%
  • You are going to lose your butt on this one

    30 
    votes
    24.2%
  • This poll is still running and the standings may change.

Rob Monster

Founder of EpikTop Member
Epik Founder
Impact
18,389
As some folks here know, I am a big fan of Digital Empowerment projects that scale.

Over the last year, I have seen lives transformed by people becoming successful domain investors on a bootstrap.

I have been discussing with a few folks about introducing a Domain Microfinance program for emerging economies and for young entrepreneurs.

This could be a Digital Empowerment strategy for helping people to bootstrap domain portfolios. The idea was inspired by a discussion with a young Angolan.

The idea is this:

- People apply to get a microfinance grant. To get the grant, they have to verify their identity. This is done in order to prevent repeat applicants.

- Domains registered are limited to .com. With a budget of as little as $30, right now that is about 5 .com domains at a promo rate of just $5.49.

- The domains are powered by an SSL powered landing pages which domain owners can optimize and then use to sell or lease.

- Once the grant participants generate a certain level of sales or leases, e.g. $100, they can request an interest-free domain loan based on their portfolio.
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
Sounds like you’re counting them out, I believe — the best is yet to come.
You see “rah rah stuff”,I see intelligent discourse.

I haven't counted anybody out. In fact, I've posted many times now we have people from all over the world, all levels of income doing domaining. You do need a little go-getter in your personality. If you want somebody to come and hold your hand, you already failed. This still isn't a mentor or group type business. This is investing, this is competition, this isn't for everybody.

I think having a poll to see how many members here are willing to donate at least one good domain will settle all arguments and points us to the right direction, the right answers will come after the poll is running for a week. Until then going back and forth is useless.

You don't need a poll, you can just do it. Donate yourself. Plus, people can say one thing in a poll, doesn't mean they'll do it.

Let's start with you. Post a name with your next post you're willing to donate, then donate it.
 
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I haven't counted anybody out. In fact, I've posted many times now we have people from all over the world, all levels of income doing domaining. You do need a little go-getter in your personality. This still isn't a mentor or group type business. This is investing, this is competition, this isn't for everybody.

I respect you think like that, and get that.

At the same time, I’m sooo much more optimistic.

I think this industry needs change. Plus being from finance, flexibility is never a bad thing...

Innovation, seldom is...

$30 is too low IMO.... it takes away from ”prestige”. DNAcademy itself, sells their course for hundreds. Personally, i have DNAcademy, and i love them.
 
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I think having a poll to see how many members here are willing to donate at least one good domain will settle all arguments and points us to the right direction, the right answers will come after the poll is running for a week. Until then going back and forth is useless.

I would rather donate something more useful personally.

The truth is the average person has absolutely no idea how to extract value from a domain no matter what country they are from, developed or developing.

I think it makes limited sense to "donate" a valuable domain to a party who likely has limited idea what to do with it.

Brad
 
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People seem to be giving @JB Lions a hard time ... it should be noted that I'm pretty sure he's not against the concept of helping people in need .. it's just that, like me .. the process as described so far is just too far from being realistic in any way. It'll be virtually impossible to stop fraudulent applications.

Beyond that .. the supporters of this movement somehow seem to be waving a magical wand and assuming it's anything but an extremely complex mountain to train someone to be a successful domain investor .. then you're also limiting them to a number of domains where even if the 1 in 100 who do climb that mountain will then need to roll a specific number on a 50 sided dice in order to break even.

The math .. the math .. the math ... it unfortunately just does not work here .. and that's just on the surface .. as you start to spell it all out there are added details that will actually reveal more odds against.

And it's not like the math even comes close .. it's so incredibly far off from working that it worries me how some see the model in it's current form could work.

The vast majority of domainers just don't make money .. it's just a sad unfortunate reality .. even if you have a great domain course .. most of the people coming out of that will not be successful because there are other important elements people must have a good grasp of in order to even have a chance of succeeding.


As I've mentioned above .. there are ways to improve the math .. but improving it does not mean good enough to work.


It seems now there's also talk of maybe using domains donated before they expire .. but it's got to be asked if a domainer allows a domain to expire, then is it really wise to suggest a newcomer renew it? When in fact it would actually cost them significantly more personal economic clout than the domainer who was going to let it expire? ($8.49 to someone in a developing nation is astronomically more expensive than it is to me here in Canada or someone in the EU or US)


I also saw the proposed form above and based on that it seems the target audience for the proposed program has shifted signifcantly to people who have already sold domains? I don't get that part? Seems like nothing about this is set .. and to be honest, it's feedback we leave now might not even apply to how the program will be in 12 hours!? lol


I'd love to leave more feedback and helpful suggestions, but so much has changed in the time I was at work! lol


Before even getting to the rest of the mathematical implausible stuff, I'm still really curious as to how there will be any realistic way to stop fraudulent applications?
 
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Seems like the poll is very polarized atm ... half of the people think it is good idea, half of the people think the very opposite.

I am trying but honestly still do not understand how can $30 (or $300) in domaining change someone's life ...if that would be other field of human activity (let's say someone needs to plant their fields and just need those initial $30 to buy first seeds, from which they will have crop and thus new seeds to repeat the process, etc, I would understand that.

But domaining does NOT require initial capital, it requires time, effort, drive and energy to study.

If someone is without funds, they can BROKER already existing portfolia ... and they can get commision if they make a sale.

So why do you guys want someone to take your $30, and to register some names, for which (because they will be handregs) they will in average get let's say $400 IF they ever resell them? In the same time, with same effort and same energy someone can (with $0 capital required) broker some of my names (for example) .. and if sold succesfully, they can get MUCH MORE then anything they could ever get from those $30.

But that would require lot of study, lot of energy, and focus on non .com names imo (why non .com ? Because for premium .com names we already have enough brokers, competition is huge there, while even my grandmother can broker name like hotel / com and achieve 7 figures for it, it is not a miracle). But to actively sell new gTLDs let's say via Linkedin is much much harder (it requires knowledge, end users will be asking many things), and this is where I see potential for future, because competition is still very low there, so even new people can enter there quickly and have success ..

So I would forget the $30 idea, and I would better focus to train people to be domain brokers, that will have much more value longterm, both for you and them ... just my 2 cents :)
You have to learn to walk before you can run.

Who in their right mind is going to let some newbie run loose, and broker valuable domains who doesn’t have much experience. Especially someone from a third world country known for scams, and where English is not their native language.

This is graduated learning, it takes years to figure out what sells, how to make money on the buy. Many good names teeter on TM’s, and you have to be very careful how you engage.

I get calls everyday from people trying to sell website services etc, as do others, and they are screened to the point of no return.

I really think this program has merits, as there are a lot of inquiries coming out of Nigeria, and Indonesia, but they need guidance on how to sell, and stay away from marks like “realtor” etc... it’s nice to see regional ambassadors who understand such regions, and nationalities.

Domaining has a huge learning curve, with a high failure rate, I think teaching most how to create affiliate, and commission revenue sites is probably a better way to go, flipping subpar inventory via email marketing is very difficult.
 
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You don't need a poll, you can just do it. Donate yourself. Plus, people can say one thing in a poll, doesn't mean they'll do it.

Let's start with you. Post a name with your next post you're willing to donate, then donate it. Step up to the plate.

People can pledge the domains that they want to donate in the poll thread, which I also will include the domain that I want to donate at that time, as far as people backing out of their pledge I believe you are not giving that much credit to the many long standing members here. End of discussion for now.
 
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I think having a poll to see how many members here are willing to donate at least one good domain will settle all arguments and points us to the right direction, the right answers will come after the poll is running for a week. Until then going back and forth is useless.

Some domain investors are benevolent. Those who are benevolent may choose to unload some number of non-strategic domains, with or without a tax benefit, because they believe in an idea. Great.

Other domainers are selfish but rational. They have expiry streams that go to Snapnames which gives them no value whatsoever. It would be entirely rational to send an expiry stream for charitable good.

And some domainers are selfish and irrational. Some will make money. Some will find fulfillment. Some will grow old and wait to die. Pity.
 
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Some domain investors are benevolent. Those who are benevolent may choose to unload some number of non-strategic domains, with or without a tax benefit, because they believe in an idea. Great.

Other domainers are selfish but rational. They have expiry streams that go to Snapnames which gives them no value whatsoever. It would be entirely rational to send an expiry stream for charitable good.

And some domainers are selfish and irrational. Some will make money. Some will find fulfillment. Some will grow old and wait to die. Pity.

Well, to start with giving limited choices like that is a logical fallacy.

There are plenty of other options. For instance, benevolent and rational.

Many people run successful businesses and also donate or give to good causes. Maybe they think this idea is dubious and has limited chance of success for a large number of reasons.

Brad
 
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Well, to start with giving limited choices like that is a logical fallacy.

There are plenty of other options. For instance, benevolent and rational.

Many people run successful businesses and also donate or give to good causes. Maybe they think this idea is dubious and has limited chance of success for a large number of reasons.

Brad

It seems we might be conflating two related topics:

(1) The Microfinance program which Epik has already started but which could potentially be spun out into a non-profit, registrar-independent cooperative.

(2) The "Goodwill for Domains" initiative where persons could contribute domains that can be sold with proceeds funding Digital Empowerment grants. This is still a concept.

It seems you are doubting whether a meaningful number of existing domain investors will take sufficient interest in supporting through time, talent or treasure, the prospect of helping emerging market domainer newbies to get started. Like @Xabial, I am an optimist -- an incurable optimist.

As a veteran entrepreneur, I know very well that there will always be early adopters, late adopters and non-adopters. However, if 40% of the domaining population love the idea and 25% of those people are prepared to execute on their instincts, there is a solid 10% prepared to start a movement. It is enough.

As mentioned, we are going to put a big emphasis on education and structural best practices to make sure folks don't blow their nest-egg on crap. That helps nobody. We agree there.
 
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Did I miss something along the way (or while I was at work .. lol)?

I thought the point of microfinance programs was that they actually be about empowerment and not be charity. Where did domain donations come into the discussion anyhow? Originally I thought this was supposed to be mostly self-sustaining? Doesn't relying on donations somewhat defeat the point? If we'd be donating domains then why would they need funding?

No offence to people honestly trying to do something here, but given the spectacular odds against success in the domain industry by newcomers .. the sad truth is that any donations would be vastly more effective in donating directly to a school in one of the targeted countries?

I specifically do NOT want or suggest or encourage anybody to grab most of the domains I'd let expire. Particularly when the renewal fee, while being the same dollar amount, is vastly more significant to them compared to what that same ($8.49) amount is to me. If I'm not going to renew something that represents minutes of work to me, then most definitely someone for whom $8.49 represents a week of work should not renew it.


*Lost and confused and in need of a clear summary of what exactly is actually being proposed NOW (not 5 minutes ago .. lol) .. I'm worried some of us are disagreeing with the distinct possibility we aren't even talking about the same thing anymore.
 
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@Ategy.com

The core story is Digital Empowerment grants from Epik. We are internally funding what is essentially a marketing expense, choosing to invest in the masses, rather than celebrity endorsement, for example. The emphasis is on (1) bootstrap funding, (2) guidelines on acceptable use, and (3) training on best practices.

The secondary story is in a separate thread where I described a domain name search for use with the Goodwill of Domains. This parallel initiative could be a secondary source of funds with which a lot more Digital Empowerment grants could be funded.

Domains could be from many sources:

- Direct dropcach activity
- Donations from domain investors
- Registrar expiry streams

That is a brief summary.
 
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As mentioned, we are going to put a big emphasis on education and structural best practices to make sure folks don't blow their nest-egg on crap. That helps nobody. We agree there.

I think my struggle in thinking this could be an effective idea is the epic (with a C) and monumental a task in how getting new domainers sufficiently educated actually is. We're talking multiple dozens of hours to even get to a point where 10% of people already very knowledgeable in the other necessary requirements (like language and marketing skills) will even have a small chance of succeeding if they also have significant luck!

What I don't get is how everyone is assuming all of a sudden there is some magical new way to drastically increase the rate of successful domainers .. when actually drawing from a pool of people who unfortunately never had access to all the other sets of knowledge and information required to have even a small chance of succeeding in domaining at what's already a bad rate of successful domainers who have been lucky enough to have been exposed to many of the required advantages?

There are two simple astronomical obstacles that I haven't seen seriously addressed here.

The first being how there's any way of actually and realistically keeping out fraudulent applications.

The second being as mentioned above, and the need of creating a significantly better and more effective way of teaching domaining than even DNAcademy. I hate being the pessimist here, but @Michael Cyger has put together and continuously improves upon an excellent program. He's an extremely intelligent and wise instructor who has put in hundreds upon hundreds of hours into perfecting the course (combine his intelligence and time, and it's just silly to assume something better could just be willed into existence in a matter of weeks or even months) .. I have a huge amount of respect for the man ... his course is just about as good as one could possibly put together a course on domaining. Repeating what he has done is not just something that can be assumed to be a part of this program.

If you go back and read some of my earlier post you'll see I had a few ideas to increase the odds ... but I really recommend you take pause and seriously address those two very significant obstacles before moving forward with the rest.


I again commend all who are actually doing something tangible to make this work .. but really take a step back and figure out how you're going to get the fundamental road blocks addressed and take a serious and honest look at the math and numbers ... because anybody who thinks this will actually work in it's current form (unless I've missed some crucial and key details) is living in a fantasy world .. and it really bothers me how nobody seems to be concerned about the potential harm false hope can bring, as well as wasted time that the candidates could have put towards other sources of more effective work/learning/self-improvement .. and so I am extremely concerned for the few genuine people who will be introduced to this program for fear of giving them false hope .. which is a VERY SIGNIFICANT probability for MOST applicants .. particularly the genuine ones. (Ironically the scammers will likely have a far better chance of succeeding given their obvious lack of concern for TM issues and more importantly their proficiency in spamming and in creating exaggerated sales proposals full of false-promises of what buying their domain(s) would deliver to potential buyers).
 
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Great, except yet again, doesn't touch any of this:

$30 to people who are broke, in poverty, where English isn't their native language, in a business where:

$30 isn't enough money usually

high failure rate

hand regs or other domainer's leftovers, names they want to drop, will be even harder to sell, than let's say an aftermarket pickup

most names will probably never get an offer, or could take years

It seems people just want to jump all around that with a lot of rah rah stuff but not taking an honest look at those issues. I don't think anybody has taken apart each point. How do you get past the high failure rate? How are they supposed to sell domains, other domainers can't? You guys very well know some domains will never get offers, some it might take years. Hand regs, other people's leftovers, the odds even worse.

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Give them a job. They can take money earned and try their hand at domaining. I wouldn't suggest these people try their hand at buying stocks, crypto etc. either.

JB ..I have domains with Afternic ,although they are .CO but also have good brandnames @199 BIN and nobody is interested .
I came from a non english speaking country but now i speak english .german french dutch and bahasa indonesia .
Subject closed ,
Peace
https://www.afternic.com/franka46

"I have over 1000 now and I know what you going to tell me "" if you had invested that money in a proper domain [$10k +] you would have made more money ."

I've never spent that much myself on a domain, it's rare I even go over $1,000. You find what works for you. I would have suggested instead of 99.9% hand regs, jumping in the Aftermarket and getting names a few hundred and under and selling them for 4 figures and up. That's very doable.
 
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JB ..I have domains with Afternic ,although they are .CO but also have good brandnames @199 BIN and nobody is interested .
I came from a non english speaking country but now i speak english .german french dutch and bahasa indonesia .
Subject closed ,
Peace
https://www.afternic.com/franka46

I have no idea what point you're trying to make with that post, except you do realize you're actually backing my posts up? You've been doing this for awhile now and just posted "nobody is interested". After taking a look at them, nobody is interested because they're just not good domains. So if you're struggling, what do you expect new people to do? I also see the domains you have up for auction at Namejet. Besides the 4 letter domains, nobody is interested in all the other ones you have up for auction. You have 5 4 letter domains with bids, then you have 70 something with 0 bids. You're making my point for me.
 
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The idea is good but I don't think it's gonna work.

$30 is way too small money in domaining specialy if it's going to be given a newbie. It's should be more then $500 or equal.

Last year I hand reg hundreds of domain names with Netsol $1 offers (I still miss that promo). Yet I am sitting on most of domain names. They all are ready to be dropped some of them already dropped and some got caught by others.

I invested around $350 and got 350 .com names.

I sold only two names to enduser one was sold for $1500 and other was for $588

35 to 40 names I sold here to other domainer. $15 to $55 each.

Am I successful! I don't think so, it's took lots of time and energy. I wish I would have just invested that $350 to buy a single domain.

I got my invested amount back but look how much money I needed for it. Your $30 ain't be a lot it's just Rs 2135 here. It could buy me some foods for a month but not good sellable domain names.
 
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Inspirational words of wisdom - domaining and taking chances (Hope) at something you didn’t understand how it works.
 
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@JB Lions - Here is what you either don't get, or are deliberately overlooking for reasons I don't know.

Two points:

Many of these folks live in countries where there is not just poverty. There is also extreme wealth. There are successful business owners. They need .COM domains too. Who will bring them to them? Well, why not locals. If a new 5-star luxury resort hotel is being permitted in Bali, would you know that? I wouldn't. A local might. Well, that local can secure the perfect domain and bring it to the resort operator's attention. Win-win.

The rate limiting time for finding domain buyers is often time -- time to pore over drop lists, and time to see who is the logical buyer for these domains. With 100,000 .COM dropping every day, there are plenty of domains that are being dropped and not picked up. There are also plenty being dropped by the big dropcatchers because they got no traction for $3000 or whatever. Buy for $5, sell for $100 or whatever.

This is a story of crawl, walk, run. If that bores you, so be it.

So the premise is to have local poor/middle-class third world country folk sell domains to millionaires who have businesses in those countries for $100 or whatever. Hmm.

Sounds like you are pretty convinced this will work and have thought it out, Rob. So less talk and more action.

Get this project off the ground and let us know how it goes. Otherwise this is turning into an endless debate again with no foreseeable outcome.
 
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So the premise is to have local poor/middle-class third world country folk sell domains to millionaires who have businesses in those countries for $100 or whatever. Hmm.

Sounds like you are pretty convinced this will work and have thought it out, Rob. So less talk and more action.

Get this project off the ground and let us know how it goes. Otherwise this is turning into an endless debate again with no foreseeable outcome.

It is already in operation.

The first phase was offering $5.49 .COM to everyone. There is a hard loss there, by the way.

The second step is to offer grants and interest-free loans.

These are both operational.

The missing elements that are now coming are:

- Scalable intake of grant applicants through a "Start me up" workflow.

- Educational material to help new domainers succeed, even if they have no money to buy a course.

- Donation framework for folks who wants to contribute domains or funds for Digital Empowerment grants.

Safe to say though, at Epik, we are pretty action-oriented. However, we are also co-creators, which is why these threads have a function, i.e. to tap the collective wisdom of all -- including fans and critics.
 
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Wow...it is a full time job keeping up with Rob! :xf.smile:

Okay...lots of good points on both sides but having had some interaction in 3rd world issues I see (or think I do) some of what Rob is wanting to do.

Regardless of the continent, there are locals that see things happening in their area...a new business to make water filters, to sell basic/essential items, a business to work on local roads/infrastructure and yes, even hotel/motels in some areas.

There is always a new, top level businessperson in that area that has just come into 'wealth' or a little expendable income because of the money their government or outside investors have put into the area. The scenario I see is a person, having the ownership/control of a relevant name for that geographic area and/or purpose being able to approach the new found money person and offer them a domain name that fits there needs for reasonable $50/75/100 or maybe more if it matches one of the bigger projects.

For Examples: CityxMarket.com, CityxGrocer.com, CityxTailor.com, cityxSolar.com (of course local language would be used where English does not make sense).

At first I had trouble getting my head around some of this but now I can see, if handled properly, how this small investment could be uplifting to some young man or woman that has nothing to look forward to and can I see where an intelligent and driven individual could make a sale by walking or pedaling up a business with an assisted/planned presentation.

I understand that this is separate from 'goodwill domain donation' project, but let me know if you (Rob) would like me to reg a couple names that I think would work in some areas and I will be glad to sign them over as my contribution. But, I know lots of groundwork for the project must be laid first.
 
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I understand that this is separate from 'goodwill domain donation' project,

I believe that it's best to combine these two programs together so that the goodwill domains project will complement and energizes the micro finance project. One program that encompasses everything such as grants, interest free loans, domain donations, money, time, and effort donations, expired domain streams, educational materials and courses, and application wetting procedures. This way there will be less confusion for everyone including the participants. IMO
 
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Wow...it is a full time job keeping up with Rob! :xf.smile:

Okay...lots of good points on both sides but having had some interaction in 3rd world issues I see (or think I do) some of what Rob is wanting to do.

Regardless of the continent, there are locals that see things happening in their area...a new business to make water filters, to sell basic/essential items, a business to work on local roads/infrastructure and yes, even hotel/motels in some areas.

There is always a new, top level businessperson in that area that has just come into 'wealth' or a little expendable income because of the money their government or outside investors have put into the area. The scenario I see is a person, having the ownership/control of a relevant name for that geographic area and/or purpose being able to approach the new found money person and offer them a domain name that fits there needs for reasonable $50/75/100 or maybe more if it matches one of the bigger projects.

For Examples: CityxMarket.com, CityxGrocer.com, CityxTailor.com, cityxSolar.com (of course local language would be used where English does not make sense).

At first I had trouble getting my head around some of this but now I can see, if handled properly, how this small investment could be uplifting to some young man or woman that has nothing to look forward to and can I see where an intelligent and driven individual could make a sale by walking or pedaling up a business with an assisted/planned presentation.

I understand that this is separate from 'goodwill domain donation' project, but let me know if you (Rob) would like me to reg a couple names that I think would work in some areas and I will be glad to sign them over as my contribution. But, I know lots of groundwork for the project must be laid first.


Thanks @Mister Funsky. Anyone can register domains at Epik.com and push their donation names to [email protected]. Worst case they don't get renewed, but we'll put SSL landers on them and try to liquidate them. [email protected] has its own accounts ledger so we can begin to make that account self-funding in terms of inflows --right now it depends on Epik as corporate sponsor which is fine.
 
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Added:

Also because charity and donations are involved there has to be a special board to oversee this program to make sure that there is no bias or discrimination towards the participants and in handling the donations and funds. IMO
 
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Where? URL?

The dedicated webpage is still coming. ICYMI, we are still working on selecting the right domain for it. The domain search is covered here.

My general approach to develop is to Crawl, Walk, Run -- get out there with something functional and start learning and gathering feedback while architecting for scale, usability and reliability. As the application scales, build in process automation, internal controls, and virality. As the application achieves critical mass, start optimizing monetization, aggressively re-investing in product superiority and service excellence.

In the meantime, a few progress points:

We hired @franka46 in Australia to help with candidate screening. He is off to a fast start.

We hired @Abdullah Abdullah in Yemen to lead the rollout in Middle East and North Africa.

We hired @domainexpert77 in Nigeria to lead the rollout in Central Africa, starting with Nigeria where we have about 1000 clients now.

We have 2 strong leads for a domainer education curriculum. I expect a deal to be finalized shortly.

We have started issuing Digital Empowerment grants. We won't name names just yet but we are getting requests and processing them promptly.

We hope to finalize an intake questionnaire as early as this week. The actual site has a vision for it that is taking shape. I don't have an ETA for it yet.

As for hiring pace, I expect we'll add 1-2 persons per week, notably in emerging markets, for the foreseeable future.
 
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