advice Better to add payment installments to generate more sales?

[Domain Redux]

In your experience, is it better to add payment installments or just have the buyer pay the full amount? I understand that this could vary based on the price on the domain (e.g. <$500 wouldn't need installments as opposed to a domain that costs $4,500). This could also be entirely up to the buyer's budget.

A few variables noted above, but maybe nice to have the option just in case? What are your thoughts?

 

[eurorealtor]

I know that the following have some sort of payment plan: (Escrow.com, I think >> I need to check details)

Quote:

What is Secure domain name holding?

Our domain name holding service is designed for Buyers and Sellers who agree to hold the domain(s) in escrow while the Buyer makes scheduled payments.

The fee for this service is our standard escrow fee plus a domain holding fee. The holding fee is dependent on the length of the holding period; $40/month if we are managing the DNS and $25/month if the Buyer will manage their own DNS. All contracts will have a minimum holding fee of $150 plus the escrow fee. Each transaction may include up to three domains without additional charges. Additional domains can be added to the contracts for the per year fee of $125 if we manage the DNS and $100 if managed by the Buyer.

Read more

 

[frank-germany]

@jberryhill

please if you find the time
could you advise us

what's the risk in leasing a domain
( payment plans )
related to whois data ( ownership )

a) whois stays same as sellers while leasing
b) whois changes to the buyer while leasing

problems expected are:

for a) illegal activities committed using the rented domain

for b) renting party could claim ownership based on whois data
while only a few payments are made

 

[BrandableDomain]

Not only does Uniregistry offer their own payment plan option (which I haven’t tried), they also offer the services of Escrow.com if a buyer requests it. I did once use Escrow.com’s payment plan on a Uni buyer’s request and it was a valuable experience, though a lot of extra admin.

That deal would definitely not have happened without a payment plan. Payment plans are a lot of extra work, but worth it because some buyers need some time to raise the money.

Here is a link to the Uni Payment Terms page:

https://uniregistry.com/legal/payment-plan-terms

@frank-germany you will probably be interested in Section 8 which addresses the legal conditions applying to the buyer’s use of the domain. For example:

“The Buyer warrants that the Domain Name(s) shall be used solely for lawful purposes, and in accordance with any applicable laws, regulations, and registrar or registry policies.” (ETC).

(In my experience, the domain was placed into Escrow’s control or possession during the period, I’m sure it never displayed the buyer’s whois.)

I described my experience on NP, hope this link works, it’s comment # 21:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/full-time-domainer-with-10k-goal-mo.1104440/#post-6936678

DomainInvesting wrote a great article called “Domain Name Financing Options Are Underutilized” which explains some of the subtle differences between various payment plan options and also explains some of the processes:

https://domaininvesting.com/domain-name-financing-options/

Finally, Names.club seems to have made payment plans beautifully simple by offering a standard 60 month plan option. I haven’t tried it but it appears to make acquiring a domain as easy as buying a new fridge or computer on a payment plan.

https://names.club/faq

 

[frank-germany]

@frank-germany you will probably be interested in Section 8 which addresses the legal conditions applying to the buyer’s use of the domain. For example:

“The Buyer warrants that the Domain Name(s) shall be used solely for lawful purposes, and in accordance with any applicable laws, regulations, and registrar or registry policies.” (ETC).

what happens legally if he fails or doesn't care ?

 

[Larion]

it should be similar to "car leasing":

- you can drive the car, but the bank still owns the car / domain-owner is listed in WHOIS
- if you crash the car, the insurance will cover it / domain-renter needs to pay insurance

 

[BrandableDomain]

what happens legally if he fails or doesn't care ?

I don’t know any more than what is described in the Uni Terms, such as:

“The Buyer shall indemnify, defend, and hold harmless the Seller and the Registrar against any loss or damage (including all attorneyís fees, costs and other expenses) arising from claims of a third party for conduct arising from Buyer's use of the Domain Name(s), including by example and without limitation any act of:” (followed by a list of possible illegal uses, infringements etc.)

It seems to me that since the Buyer has warranted that the domain will be used solely for lawful purposes, any risk is very small. I’ve noticed there is an option to apply to cancel transactions in Escrow.com contracts, so presumably if someone was using your domain for something illegal you could cancel the contract.

There are probably relevant terms on the Escrow.com site.

 

[BrandableDomain]

@jberryhill

for b) renting party could claim ownership based on whois data
while only a few payments are made

I went into my Escrow account to refresh my memory about the transaction which I talked about above. It was a $5,000 sale. The buyer's first payment was $2,000 (plus the escrow fee, a bit more than $300).

Only when that was received did Escrow ask me to transfer the domain to them (not to the buyer). That's probably standard procedure. The buyer was then able to request to Escrow.com that the nameservers be changed to his website. At no time did he have any control over the domain or name in the whois.

So it was only after a substantial 40 percent deposit was actually received that I transferred the domain to Escrow.com. The whole transaction was under a Docusign contract digitally signed by a Uni broker, an Escrow representative, the buyer and me the seller.

 

[frank-germany]

I don’t know any more than what is described in the Uni Terms, such as:

“The Buyer shall indemnify, defend, and hold harmless the Seller and the Registrar against any loss or damage (including all attorneyís fees, costs and other expenses) arising from claims of a third party for conduct arising from Buyer's use of the Domain Name(s), including by example and without limitation any act of:” (followed by a list of possible illegal uses, infringements etc.)

It seems to me that since the Buyer has warranted that the domain will be used solely for lawful purposes, any risk is very small. I’ve noticed there is an option to apply to cancel transactions in Escrow.com contracts, so presumably if someone was using your domain for something illegal you could cancel the contract.

There are probably relevant terms on the Escrow.com site.

all people are nice and good
so no need to worry

thanks for reminder

 

[cillx]

I have 500+ payment plan enable domains for sale at dan. now it has been more than 4 months yet no sale through this option. I have sold one name on brandpa for $3k, and received 1st installment. waiting for the second installment....

 

[Vito]

Question is: Does Dan.com change whois during lease period? In other words Is it like Namesilo or Epik?
I didn't know Dan.com allowed financed sales. One more reason to switch from Sedo to Dan.com, if they change whois.
.

Yes they do change the whois.
I finished a successful sale/transaction just last week (six / figure / coach in com), that is a (12) month finance plan I offered thru DAN.

 

[BradWilson]

I had an old school version of this domain rent-to-own option way back on a typo of morpheus. The buyer/renter just wanted the traffic instead of buying the domain outright. It was a good thing I did accepted this option because I made way more money.

He paid $300/month I think for more than 5 years. After awhile he stopped paying and I then redirected the traffic and made more than $300/month in affiliate sales from a music sharing program.

So overall I made over $30k from this typo domain that I wanted to sell for a lot less. Unfortunately the bottom fell out of this sweat deal and the typo domain isn't worth too much now.

Side story, I worked with a "friend" who had an even better typo than I had and at the height of this music sharing era he was making over $90k/month.

 

[topdom]

Does Dan.com allow rent-only also? Or say 100 for the first month, 10k for remaining months.

I think ppc is dead, and traffic doesn't make money anymore. I mean, it makes 1 percent or less (and since "traffic " is dead also you can read it as 0,001 percent). This is related to liquidity in financial system, and of course to China's rise. China doesn't allow US to create wealth out of nothing anymore. And China is backed by Russian weapons. So we can't make money from ppc because of Russian military superiority.

 

[NameBuyer.com]

Yes, this is the way to go. Lease it and sell for the full value of the domain. Below is one of my past posts on this:

• Lease from Day 1 - Over the course of 3-4 years, I've built up around 30 leases (now 24). From that, I receive over $1,500 in consistent monthly income. Leasing right from your landing page eliminates people who negotiate based on their current financial situation and instead they focus on the value of the domain name, which is the correct way to negotiate anything.

https://www.namepros.com/threads/wh...r-selling-domains.1129585/page-2#post-7194467

From my post in May:

Not only does it obliterate the very real barrier (or negotiation tactic) of not having enough money, 90% of these sales pay full price, and I'd say 90% of them have continued to completion.

All of my leases are with Epik.com and it's simple to setup with many configuration options. On my lander, I just have a button that allows the customer to send me a $50 setup via paypal. I then transfer the domain to Epik and setup the lease. In the last 30 days I've had $5,650 in lease sales, resulting in new payment plans totaling $105 per month.

 

[Larion]

In the last 30 days I've had $5,650 in lease sales, resulting in new payment plans totaling $105 per month.

1)
could you please explain this in detail ?
You make $5650 per month or you make $105 per month ?
Or you got new leasing business of $105 per month ?

2)
What is the timeframe you lease your domains for usually?
1 year / 2 years / 3 years / 5 years, etc. ?


It seems "Rent To Own" is the best way to do domain-business.
EPIK and DAN are going to eat SEDO's lunch...


Many thanks!

 

[poweredbyme]

In your experience, is it better to add payment installments or just have the buyer pay the full amount? I understand that this could vary based on the price on the domain (e.g. <$500 wouldn't need installments as opposed to a domain that costs $4,500). This could also be entirely up to the buyer's budget.

A few variables noted above, but maybe nice to have the option just in case? What are your thoughts?

Payment installments, in theory, should generate more sales for higher priced domains only. Payment plans have a good potential on lowering sales for domains under x,xxx. Choosing number of installments, reading TOS on installments make the checkout process more complicated and lengthy. During that extra time in checkout a potential buyer can quickly change decision on buying that particular domain. Make the checkout process as quick as possible. Don't offer installments or anything else unless it's asked for by the buyer. If you don't offer installments, buyers will be forced to make their own financing plans with financial institutions. Most buyers do that everyday. Also if you don't offer installments it will lower your costs and you can lower your BIN prices. Lower prices are more attractive for the buyers who don't need installments or who are able to finance by their own means.

 

[NameBuyer.com]

1)
could you please explain this in detail ?
You make $5650 per month or you make $105 per month ?
Or you got new leasing business of $105 per month ?

2)
What is the timeframe you lease your domains for usually?
1 year / 2 years / 3 years / 5 years, etc. ?


It seems "Rent To Own" is the best way to do domain-business.
EPIK and DAN are going to eat SEDO's lunch...


Many thanks!

At the time of my original post, in May, I had $5,650 in new lease-to-own sales agreements, which the customers agreed to pay over the course of 48-60 months.

The majority are 5 years (60 months). I have a calculation built into the website where if it falls below $30 per month, then it will reduce the length by 12 months. So if a domain is for sale for $1,750, the calculation would be $1750 / 60 months = $29.16. Since that is below $30, then I recalculate it as $1750 / 48 months = $36.46.

My total lease-to-own income is around $1,500 per month now. It's nice having the steady income when sales are slow during the summer months.

 

[Domain Redux]

I have a calculation built into the website where if it falls below $30 per month, then it will reduce the length by 12 months. So if a domain is for sale for $1,750, the calculation would be $1750 / 60 months = $29.16. Since that is below $30, then I recalculate it as $1750 / 48 months = $36.46.

This is a feature I'll need to look into building into my site. Currently, I just have a CTA that says I'm open to financing options and to contact me, but if I have an interactive element on the page that lets me display term and amount, then that's much more beneficial. This has potential to be built into my contact form as well.

Thanks for the additional insight!

 

[NameBuyer.com]

I think in both cases (rent or rent to own) whois doesn't change (at Epik).

I usually set the whois to private as about half of the customers request this.

For the last couple days I've been thinking about whether a seller would really want the Whois info to change to the buyer's info. I would definitely prefer that the Whois info does not change solely for UDRP purposes. Without being listed in the Whois, you wouldn't even know if the domain received a UDRP notice. What if the buyer doesn't respond to the UDRP and walks away from the deal, and the domain is lost without the seller being able to respond to the UDRP?

I believe a lienholder of a car is similar, where the lienholder would get notices if the car gets impounded somewhere.

It seems as this scenario would be much more likely than a buyer committing a crime with the domain. But even in that case, you have the registrar who can back you that it was in someone else's control at the time.

 

[Larion]

I usually set the whois to private as about half of the customers request this.

For the last couple days I've been thinking about whether a seller would really want the Whois info to change to the buyer's info. I would definitely prefer that the Whois info does not change solely for UDRP purposes. Without being listed in the Whois, you wouldn't even know if the domain received a UDRP notice. What if the buyer doesn't respond to the UDRP and walks away from the deal, and the domain is lost without the seller being able to respond to the UDRP?

I believe a lienholder of a car is similar, where the lienholder would get notices if the car gets impounded somewhere.

It seems as this scenario would be much more likely than a buyer committing a crime with the domain. But even in that case, you have the registrar who can back you that it was in someone else's control at the time.

WHOIS is representing ownership of the domain-name, not representing ownership of the website.
When you are Renting/Leasing a domain-name, the WHOIS should never be changed to the name of the Renter.

When you own a house and rent out an apartment, you also do not change the name of the owner of the house to the person who is renting the apartment.

 

[frank-germany]

WHOIS is representing ownership of the domain-name, not representing ownership of the website.
When you are Renting/Leasing a domain-name, the WHOIS should never be changed to the name of the Renter.

When you own a house and rent out an apartment, you also do not change the name of the owner of the house to the person who is renting the apartment.

the question is:
are you liable in legal hindsight
to the content of a domain you own
or can this be cured by a leasing agreement

 

[poweredbyme]

the question is:
are you liable in legal hindsight
to the content of a domain you own
or can this be cured by a leasing agreement

Online ad networks
literally rent some small ad spaces on web pages of their publishers
to show ads of their advertisers.
Sound similar to renting domains?

They are not the owner of the websites of their publishers.
They are not the owner of the businesses of their advertisers.

But,
they don't show ads on all type of websites of their publishers.
Also they don't accept all type of ads from their advertisers.
They have strict rules and filters.

Why?

 

[poweredbyme]

WHOIS is representing ownership of the domain-name, not representing ownership of the website.
When you are Renting/Leasing a domain-name, the WHOIS should never be changed to the name of the Renter.

When you own a house and rent out an apartment, you also do not change the name of the owner of the house to the person who is renting the apartment.

Someone may not know what's happening in his apartment after giving it to someone else. But domain is usually a public space unless it has only password protected private content.

In my opinion renting apartment for rent revenue should bring less legal risk than renting domain for possible bad actions of the person who pays the rent. Probably this difference affects who appears as the owner.

 

[CDM]

Just came across this thread and bumping it to share my experience.

So far in 2019 I've made 6 sales via monthly payment plans, all at DAN. I've made 24 sales this year, so far, so that is 1/4 of my sales.

Of these, 3 have completed, 1 did not complete, and the other 2 are still making payments.

Those that completed were one 12-month plan, and two 6-month plans

The one that did not complete was a 6-month plan, they paid the first two months, then abandoned.

The final two, one is a 6-month plan, half complete, the other an 8-month plan that just sold.

I'm happy for the sales, but to be blunt, they are not nearly as gratifying as closing deals and getting full-payment up front. For example, one was sold at $5k over 12 months, which came out to about $379 net proceeds per month. Another was a $1k sale over 6 months, which was about $150 net payments each month. This little chunks of money help with cash flow but I would much rather have the injection of $5k or $1k all at once.

I would be interested to know if anyone has any data or experience with different price-points for the monthly plans, and how they affect potential sales, if at all. So for example with the $5k sale over 12-months, in hindsight I would have liked to have sold that at a 6-month plan and get $750/month instead of $375, but I wonder what the curve is, where as monthly price goes up the odds of a sale start going down, and where the sweet spot is.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Glad to see this thread get bumped. Lots of good information being shared, particularly by those who have already closed sales on payment plans.

Just in case anyone had not seen it, wanted to point out that I did a blog post on the topic of payment plans, and there are also contributions in the replies to that thread.

Thanks again for all the insights.

Bob

 

[tonyk2000]

I had a sale with a payment plan on NameSilo marketplace where the buyer started to pay, made a few payments but then elected not to continue. So the domain was returned to my acct. I am still trying to figure out how to classify this internally... did I gain anything or not? Even though the domain was returned, I also received a few monthly installement payments. So I think that technically I leased this domain (received a few monthly payments, got the domain back).

In NameSilo case, the buyer became domain owner immediately, he received the domain into his NameSilo account and could do anything with it (with an exception of a transfer away, and one would guess that domainpush was also disabled).

An installment payment option is good, no doubts. More $$$ in a long run.

Moreover, if a seller has a lot of domains and all with payment plan option - then he may probably consider unfinished sales as an extra income stream... There would always be some %%% of unfinished sales where only a few payments were received.