discuss To those who say don't rely on Appraisal Bot tools...

[cixxy]

I keep seeing these people who don't trust the AI or code of appraisal tools... but you know, machines are getting smarter and smarter and even now I believe it's wrong to say ignore the estibot or godaddy appraisal values.

So please prove me wrong and come up with some names here that are around $2000 GoDaddy appraisal bot value and are not taken. Feel free to share them publicly as well and see how fast your names will be gone.

I personally have come up with some as well, but I'd rather not share as they have some potential

Now I know that sometimes it will be very off for made-up names (because obviously that has a human element to it) and names maybe some names that are very long, but the algorithms there is pretty good and I'd say it's around a 80-90%+ accuracy.

It seems to take into account:

• Domain length
• Domain Sales / popularity for the particular keywords
• Search volume
• Some append to the domain name seems to be accurate, like Host.com is more than $25,000 but if you make it Hhost it's ~$4000 and Hostt is $4198

It really makes it easy at a glance to see the value, so in Expired Domains I see a lot of people using the valuation as a basis on the bid. Usually the ones with higher valuation gets more popular & more bids.

So please prove me wrong or feel free to add anything to my analysis. Cheers.

 

[alcy]

no one should ever rely on any appraisal tools.

in time, most domainers understand this as they gain and experience and knowledge.

gl

 

[DotKing]

Of course, trusting appraisal tools blindly is wrong. It's just one step when you're making a research, and it can sometimes help with discovering similar sales. I would not buy high appraised name which I don't understand.

 

[Mister Funsky]

Not sure if it will be fluctuating more now or this is like a monthly thing...

Not sure if someone else mentioned this or not...when a new sale gets reported or imported to the daddy system it will take that into account and the 'value' of related names will change accordingly. At least that is what I was told by a rep.

I only use those tools as a general reference and depend on the data from esti regarding cpc, broad searches, exact searches etc. I then apply my own formula for a value and add a little experience to come up with a bottom and top sales price range.

 

[Kate]

What a surprise, yet another thread about appraisal 'tools'...

...
So please prove me wrong and come up with some names here that are around $2000 GoDaddy appraisal bot value and are not taken. Feel free to share them publicly as well and see how fast your names will be gone.

The fact that names are taken means nothing, it does not mean they are valuable, and have resale value.
The vast majority of registered domain names have no value and will never sell. Maybe 1% of the domain supply is valuable, being generous. As simple as that.

The appraisals are usually meaningless because there isn't liquidity anyway, except for the very best domains - if they are priced right.

Pricing the domains isn't the problem and is a futile exercise if there is no buyer in sight.

So the correct question should be:
So please prove me wrong and come up with some names here that are around $2000 GoDaddy appraisal bot value and have not sold.

 

[vravis9]

The domain appraisals are great resource to get a good idea of value of "keywords" in a domain name....

Not for whole name!!

If you check GD / Estibot they give output of estimated value of a domain based on lots of inputs (sales) of same keywords in that domain from previous sales...

This is good to get a clear idea of the keyword value...sales volume and hence demand.

And these are not constant...because as you can guess the continuous sales will add more inputs into system...so sometimes you see different valuation of the same name within few days apart..

This is okay...and this estimated values can be used as a base point to tell about the importance of keywords in a name.
If both seller and buyer are on same page...

The problem is there are many sales...stupid names being registered and sold (apparently at low prices) and these all will impact on the valuations of names (to be) registered...

The valuation tools sometimes can't identify the two / three (key)words separately...and value the name differently...

For example..
According to GD estimation..(all .com)
CryptoAss is $1413
CryptoCat is $7000+
CryptoDog is $8000+
HempAss is $1177

First three are valued at those prices because they contain valuable keyword "crypto" = $3033

It doesn't matter you put the crypto with ass...cat or dog...it simply fetches valuation based on some keyword..even if doesn't make any sense of total name...
And we see numerous names registered like these..and surprisingly (read shockingly) we see some sales too...!!

For Fourth one..
GD didn't want to attach hemp with ass (still the industry is evolving and getting legalised one at a time...so GD showed mercy) it read as "hemPASS" and pointed that it has a valuable keyword "PASS" in name hence the valuation...

See here GD can't separate words properly...and so can't estimate properly...
(Of course in this eg valuation doesn't matter..just an example)

To conclude...
These valuations help us getting keywords value..
And comparable sales history...
The final verdict should be by buyer...seller...and ourselves before registering the name...

The AI...machine learning...can not put themselves into human shoes and value a domain accordingly...
The algorithms might work upto a level but final mile must be on human decision...

In other words the automated valuations or broker valuations all sound silly...if a buyer wants to buy the name..
Everything is in his hands...even the choice of TLD

 

[Recons.Com]

Let's say this way: I often buy a name valued at $1500 for $19, while some valued at $2k+ are available for $13.

Gd rarely gets wrong the ones valued at $3k+ though.

 

[cixxy]

Not sure if someone else mentioned this or not...when a new sale gets reported or imported to the daddy system it will take that into account and the 'value' of related names will change accordingly. At least that is what I was told by a rep.

I only use those tools as a general reference and depend on the data from esti regarding cpc, broad searches, exact searches etc. I then apply my own formula for a value and add a little experience to come up with a bottom and top sales price range.

Makes sense for the value to be related and updated per sales. How does it drop then? Maybe less sales in average and lower search volumes perhaps.

What a surprise, yet another thread about appraisal 'tools'...


The fact that names are taken means nothing, it does not mean they are valuable, and have resale value.
The vast majority of registered domain names have no value and will never sell. Maybe 1% of the domain supply is valuable, being generous. As simple as that.

The appraisals are usually meaningless because there isn't liquidity anyway, except for the very best domains - if they are priced right.

Pricing the domains isn't the problem and is a futile exercise if there is no buyer in sight.

So the correct question should be:
So please prove me wrong and come up with some names here that are around $2000 GoDaddy appraisal bot value and have not sold.

Sorry but it’s completely wrong. The fact is the more taken a domain is usually the higher the demand. Usually if a domain is taken in over 50 extensions it means it’s a sought after name and if it’s over 400 it means it’s one of those names that if you own the dot com could be worth millions.
When we apply the logic to whether a name is taken or not , most of the time it applies so the rarer the name the more likelihood it will be taken in dot com. Thus it’s very hard to find ones that are still available for hand-reg around the 2000+ valuation mark.

Apart from one exception, most people just posted entries from Closeouts that aren’t even their own avail to hand reg. Or other threads with 2000$ valuation names already taken.

The fact is the more popular the keyword the more likelihood of a sale as well, so the higher the valuation. You saying there’s no liquidity doesn’t make sense at all. It’s like saying only the best domains that are worth millions will sell, what a pessimistic view you have.

 

[urlurl]

ive sold names way over the appraisal amount so i caution only to use as a min guideline,

common sense and experience should run supreme

 

[cixxy]

The domain appraisals are great resource to get a good idea of value of "keywords" in a domain name....

Not for whole name!!

If you check GD / Estibot they give output of estimated value of a domain based on lots of inputs (sales) of same keywords in that domain from previous sales...

This is good to get a clear idea of the keyword value...sales volume and hence demand.

And these are not constant...because as you can guess the continuous sales will add more inputs into system...so sometimes you see different valuation of the same name within few days apart..

This is okay...and this estimated values can be used as a base point to tell about the importance of keywords in a name.
If both seller and buyer are on same page...

The problem is there are many sales...stupid names being registered and sold (apparently at low prices) and these all will impact on the valuations of names (to be) registered...

The valuation tools sometimes can't identify the two / three (key)words separately...and value the name differently...

For example..
According to GD estimation..(all .com)
CryptoAss is $1413
CryptoCat is $7000+
CryptoDog is $8000+
HempAss is $1177

First three are valued at those prices because they contain valuable keyword "crypto" = $3033

It doesn't matter you put the crypto with ass...cat or dog...it simply fetches valuation based on some keyword..even if doesn't make any sense of total name...
And we see numerous names registered like these..and surprisingly (read shockingly) we see some sales too...!!

For Fourth one..
GD didn't want to attach hemp with ass (still the industry is evolving and getting legalised one at a time...so GD showed mercy) it read as "hemPASS" and pointed that it has a valuable keyword "PASS" in name hence the valuation...

See here GD can't separate words properly...and so can't estimate properly...
(Of course in this eg valuation doesn't matter..just an example)

To conclude...
These valuations help us getting keywords value..
And comparable sales history...
The final verdict should be by buyer...seller...and ourselves before registering the name...

The AI...machine learning...can not put themselves into human shoes and value a domain accordingly...
The algorithms might work upto a level but final mile must be on human decision...

In other words the automated valuations or broker valuations all sound silly...if a buyer wants to buy the name..
Everything is in his hands...even the choice of TLD

I don’t know about your example because for me hempass was pretty spot on.
Comparable domains sold:
hempnut.com $999 (USD)
hempdawg.com $1,850 (USD)
hempsex.com $750 (USD)

Cryptoass is obviously going to be lower than the animal names which are way more brandable and in demand than the sex industry for crypto so the appraised prices are highly accurate to me.

Also I believe it made sense of the total name. Like I said earlier it takes into account two keywords together like try typing in cheap flights.

 

[urlurl]

classic example: these are 2 good key words, they don't make any sense together;

flightmortgage.com

Estimated Value: $1,725

 

[cixxy]

no one should ever rely on any appraisal tools.

in time, most domainers understand this as they gain and experience and knowledge.

gl

I think for keyword domains of current industries it’s close to 100% accuracy to be honest. It’s just like those people who were saying you can’t rely on ai and driverless cars when in fact they are much more accurate than humans right now.

 

[cixxy]

classic example: these are 2 good key words, they don't make any sense together;

flightmortgage.com

Estimated Value: $1,725

Good try but actually it seems to make sense by the companies that actually go by that name. Try a google search on it.

There’s a company called top flight mortgage and another one called first flight mortgage

Also: At LoanFlight, we excel at the forefront of mortgage marketing and origination technology.

 

[urlurl]

dont need to google it ---> those 2 words are horrible together, when put together it refers to someone walking away from their mortgage obligations.

im not sure exactly where you are going with this thread, but if you are buying names based on what the appraisal says, good luck

 

[cixxy]

dont need to google it ---> those 2 words are horrible together, when put together it refers to someone walking away from their mortgage obligations.

im not sure exactly where you are going with this thread, but if you are buying names based on what the appraisal says, good luck

I mean that’s your interpretations of it. People have different interpretations of words.

Flight can mean freedom, have you thought of that? Freedom from mortgage.

Godaddy takes similar keywords into account very heavily

I’m not buying every name with high appraisal like I said. Otherwise I’d be bankrupt from buying out the whole gd Closeouts. I’m only getting names there with high appraisal values that have potential and in promising / popular industries like tech, finance etc

Most of the time it’s the higher ones that are better names. Try comparing the 2000-3000 with 1000-1500 range

 

[Kate]

Sorry but it’s completely wrong. The fact is the more taken a domain is usually the higher the demand. Usually if a domain is taken in over 50 extensions it means it’s a sought after name and if it’s over 400 it means it’s one of those names that if you own the dot com could be worth millions.

To begin with, a name that is taken in over 50 extensions could very well be TM and registered to the same holder...
And just because a name sells in one extension (usually .com) doesn't mean it will ever sell in another extension, let alone dozens of different extensions.
Generic keywords can certainly sell in multiple extensions, for made-up domains this is more difficult precisely because of potential TM issues and the lack of 'uniqueness'.

And what kind of demand are we talking about ? There may be demand for domains that are available to register, but if the same names were taken by a domainer, then the prospective buyers would find another available domain.

How many domains have you got that are taken in over 50 extensions ?
Domains don't sell because they have nice appraisals.

Your reasoning is flawed, just because 130 millions bad names are registered in .com alone, does not mean you will be able to sell bad names. Very few end users purchase domains on the aftermarket. The supply of domain names far exceeds actual demand. The vast majority of domain names including those owned by domainers will never sell, regardless of how much they appraise for...

 

[Ategy]

There is VASTLY too much inaccuracy and imprecision in valuation algorithms to ever rely on them for any specific domain.

Where they are good is when you're dealing with large numbers of domains and also sometimes when you want to compare relative values.

Purely keyword domains are a little easier if all you're looking for is search based revenue. Then it's mainly search volume x CPC adjusted by whatever time horizon and other tangible variables makes business sense to the buyer. But keyword based purchases are a small fraction of overall purchases. In fact, a lot of shorter simpler keyword domains can have significantly more value as a brand .. and definitely less for longer less radio friendly terms.

But that brings us back to "brandable" domains (including keywords marketed as brands) .. in these situations the only even semi-reliable accurate valuation is via an informed human perspective and analysis, as there are simply way too many fluctuating variables to ever create an algorithm to cover all the possible aspects of what makes a domain/brand attractive to a potential end user.

Note that by "Informed Human Analysis", I mean that the human processing the potential value has to have knowledge of not just the domain industry, but also the language of the domain .. and equally important, the industry/field of the domain.

That's why I think the best domainers longer time are more likely to have a broad range of knowledge and interests. They don't need to be experts in the industry in question, but they need to have enough of an understanding to be able to gauge the potential demand.

Because the one EXTREMELY IMPORTANT factor left out by all automated appraisals is "probability of sale", which is a crucial metric for domainers. Because GoDaddy could indeed be right that *IF* you ever sell a domain, it could indeed be for the number they indicate .. however .. as a domainer the two most important and EQUAL factors to your success are:

1- Average profit margin per domain sold
2- Percentage of your portfolio sold per year

From these two vital statistics you then factor in renewals and you can get a long term picture if you're moving towards profit .. or towards bankruptcy.

Probability of sale plays into the percentage of your portfolio you sell per year. Obviously every domain is a gamble .. but there are certain attributes and variables on all domains that make them less or more likely to sell (given optimal pricing .. which itself is often a mystery .. lol).

It's not all a mystery however .. there are still tons of domains where everything is fairly obvious. But there are many factors like wordflow and keyword imagery that's virtually impossible to plug into a domain valuation algorithm that ever hopes to cover the vast multitude of potential industries and niches in the world.

Most certainly GoDaddy's valuation service has improved significantly since it came out .. but it's still on a vastly lower tier than a human who has the proper knowledge to evaluate a specific domain.

That's why people really love and appreciate my daily auction lists .. because while I most certainly do use my own layers of filtration to cut the 50,000 expiring domains going to auction every day down to a more reasonable number, I still manually go through thousands of domains each and every night. Even then I stress that just because I listed a domain, I do so because it's of interest for any number of countless possible reasons .. people should use my lists simply as another layer of filtration and then gather whatever information they need to value the potential of any particular domain.

Every day you can go to NameCult to my closeouts list .. double click the "GD" the table header and the entire list will be resorted based on GD valuation. Today there are 25 closeout domains with $2000+ GD valuations that people didn't buy at auction for even $12. And since I only grab my $11 closeout list a few hours after the auctions close, it means that they were not even grabbed in the first few hours of closeout at $11. So of them are fantastic gems that slipped through the cracks due to multiple factors including luck .. but some of them also didn't get purchased because they have no real chance of ever selling for a multiple that makes sense to hold as a domainer. Even if in the very rare chance it did sell, it could sell for the valuation price.

Hope that all made sense? lol

 

[Brands.International]

The best appraisal tool should be ...your own brain

Personally I do not care at all about automated appraisal tools, as I think in 2018 they still can not compete with human knowledge.

Imo, use them only as very gross indication, and only in case you do not have any prior knowledge/experience about domain names.

 

[Ategy]

It’s just like those people who were saying you can’t rely on ai and driverless cars when in fact they are much more accurate than humans right now.

The irony is .. that as hard as it is to believe, it's almost infinitely easier to tell a car to "go from A to B while not hitting these types of objects" than it is to incorporate and program all the subjective attributes of what makes a good brand into a valuation algorithm.

Don't get me wrong .. what the guys at Estibot (which I actually personally use for plenty of other great reasons other than final valuation number) and GoDaddy have done so far are simply epic .. to even come close to scratching the surface of including everything that's needing for an accurate algorithm for valuating something so highly subjective as a brandable domain name is extremely difficult. I also have no doubt that they will continue to improve. I also have no doubt that the percentage of domains where they are indeed accurate will also in itself go up .. but there are simply too many abstract and subjective attributes to a domain to ever come close to having an all encompassing algorithm .. scientists are surely to find the grand equation covering the theory of everything before we get an accurate domain valuation algorithm .. lol.

More importantly .. even if there ever was to be an accurate algorithm .. you would still need to factor in the probability of sale in order to judge whether it's worth buying as a domainer. From there you factor in purchase price and holding cost .. and then you'd start to have an idea if you should buy a domain. But all that first part from this and my previous post, is stuff you need to work out in your head with whatever knowledge, information and stats you can get a hold of .. including the subjective "art aspect" of the equation.

At the end of the day .. that's the very reason why I love domaining .. because it's such a magnificent blend of hard science/math/stats .. mixed in with art/subjectivity. But it's also why so many people fail .. because it certainly isn't for everyone .. most definitely it helps if you know your own personal strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Recons.Com]

here are some valuable names per GD that no one has claimed yet:

telpremium.com $3,154

makercities.com $2,633

populationhealthtech.com $2,615

imlfx.com $2,402

brasilvisa.com $2.3K

thinkamyloid.com (What???) $2.3K

CentralBullionExchange.com $2.3K (really? who is exchanging bullions? If they do, how many potential end users would there be? Wouldn't they have better alternatives, if they are setting up multi-billion business?)

LoanSamaritan.com 2.3K - there are no loan samaritans. Period. Period again.

Feel free to grab any of the above or all. You are welcome ))

 

[.X.]

Computers are smarter than we are, no matter how you add it all up, faster, smarter, don’t get sick, don’t require vacations, don’t need a raise.

There is really no way a person can KNOW the probability of a sale of a name, it is speculation, based on our research of course.

The godaddy system is fair on it’s valuation based on the criteria used. But like I said earlier, it can be manipulated, it is more trial than error though, it is worth taking the time and throwing some names in it IMO

 

[Arfy]

Looking on both sides of the Bitcoin , I think that valuation tools such as estibot are very useful aids in strengthening your own analysis of a domain. It provides an alternative view on the value of the domain and provides statistics such as comparable sales, search volumes etc. However, these metrics should not be taken at face value and should prompt you to dig further into them. For example an appraisal value of 5 figures will cause me to question why this is the case and in some cases when I do some research it is clear that the domain is has some value. In other cases it might be the opposite.

Now the flipside of the token is that I hold a few very high value domains that are extremely brandable, a dictionary word and fit a very popular niche market that is growing rapidly. This domain has a low estibot appraisal but the market in reality (previous offers and lots of interest) put the domain at more than 10-20 times this value at least.

Appraisal tools can undervalue as well as overvalue.

Just my 2 satoshis

Ck

 

[Ategy]

OK .. I actually grabbed today's closeouts for NameCult only a few minutes after auction end time, but was stuck on the phone for a bit (so a couple might have been taken since). There are actually 27 closeouts of domains with GD of $2k or above .. an additional 14 domains with values between $1900 and $2000. I'm about to post the $11 portion of the closeout list here at NamePros as well (unfortunately it isn't sortable here, although you can do a browser search for $2 and you'll see them along with $200 domains). Check my signature for all the links ...

Computers are smarter than we are, no matter how you add it all up, faster, smarter, don’t get sick, don’t require vacations, don’t need a raise.

You can have the most powerful and fastest computer in the world .. but if you don't have a good underlying algorithm for it to compute, then it's no more helpful at evaluating a domain's value than a bag of farts! lol

There is really no way a person can KNOW the probability of a sale of a name, it is speculation, based on our research of course.

Yeah .. I agree a bit on that .. My point in no ways implies a human will be anything close to accurate in estimating this measure .. but an informed human can get a relative broad feeling for this number based on a lot of factors (people will get more accurate with experience as well). And INDEED YES .. it's also likely that an automated system could also spit out a "probability of sale" estimated number ... however ... my whole point in this regard is that the valuations do not report this very important factor at all, so it's not really about whether they can or can't, it's just that they don't even try.

 

[.X.]

OK .. I actually grabbed today's closeouts for NameCult only a few minutes after auction end time, but was stuck on the phone for a bit (so a couple might have been taken since). There are actually 27 closeouts of domains with GD of $2k or above .. an additional 14 domains with values between $1900 and $2000. I'm about to post the $11 portion of the closeout list here at NamePros as well (unfortunately it isn't sortable here, although you can do a browser search for $2 and you'll see them along with $200 domains). Check my signature for all the links ...




You can have the most powerful and fastest computer in the world .. but if you don't have a good underlying algorithm for it to compute, then it's no more helpful at evaluating a domain's value than a bag of farts! lol




Yeah .. I agree a bit on that .. My point in no ways implies a human will be anything close to accurate in estimating this measure .. but an informed human can get a relative broad feeling for this number based on a lot of factors (people will get more accurate with experience as well). And INDEED YES .. it's also likely that an automated system could also spit out a "probability of sale" estimated number ... however ... my whole point in this regard is that the valuations do not report this very important factor at all, so it's not really about whether they can or can't, it's just that they don't even try.

Yep, agreed.

 

[Mister Funsky]

Makes sense for the value to be related and updated per sales. How does it drop then? Maybe less sales in average and lower search volumes perhaps.

I assume the value would increase or decrease based on simple averaging using total $ amount of sales divided by number of domains.

When daddy first came out with the service, I checked all my domains and logged the data (value as well as corresponding sales and keyword value/data). One name in particular caught my attention as I felt it was far too low.

A friend had been negotiating on a very similar name and once the sale was made (afternic) I went back to check the value of my name...the value had increased significantly. My assumption is that the 'new' sale of a similar name with a matching keyword brought the value up.

 

[Recons.Com]

I know a name that Gd values at under 8k while in the similar sales portion showing that this name has sold for $15k+ before.

Go figure how the algorithm works.