discuss [Resolved] Domainer Loses $26k On A Stolen Domain!

[Silentptnr]

Darn! Another scam and this time it is an experienced domainer James Booth.

James must have thought he was making a sound acquisition as he transferred approximately 26k to escrow for CQD.com. Instead, after completing the escrow, the domain was taken from his account by the registrar without notification and returned to the "true" owner.

Turns out the person that sold him the domain CQD.com, may not have been the true owner.

Apparently this incident involves several parties including the registrar and the escrow.


Thanks to Theo over at DomainGang for the tip on this.

 

[tjl92]

So sorry for your loss @BoothDomains I admit I did not read 43 pages lol but I read the story from the first couple. CRAZY!!! I didnt even know NetSol was that bad being new around here, not that I ever considered them, but something to keep in mind for me on this journey too.

 

[PAVAN]

So sorry for your loss @BoothDomains I admit I did not read 43 pages lol but I read the story from the first couple. CRAZY!!! I didnt even know NetSol was that bad being new around here, not that I ever considered them, but something to keep in mind for me on this journey too.

James Booth got the domain. But it is now said by the owner that the domain was stolen and sold to James Booth. So the owner Rebecca is at loss here. But both are victims as of now.

 

[maya-zir]

Crap registrar's like? Compared to NetSol?

If your registrar doesnt help you and support team keep silence or responds with to much delay, then yes, this registrar is a crap.

 

[anantj]

If your registrar doesnt help you and support team keep silence or responds with to much delay, then yes, this registrar is a crap.

Care you share which registrar gie you full whois history details of a domain as well as previous owner detailed information? I'd love to use that registrar

 

[maya-zir]

Care you share which registrar gie you full whois history details of a domain as well as previous owner detailed information? I'd love to use that registrar

I didnt said if the registrar doesnt give the the whole domain history - it is a crap registrar.
I just said if you try to reach a support and never get any help or get it in 3-4 days or later - this is a crap registrar.
It is also possible to try to reach the ICANN...
Anyway, if the seller is interested in sell the domain he will help you to get the permision for the registrar.
If tomorrow somebody offer me 26k for my domain - I will ask registrar to confirm to the seller all he would ask them.

 

[anantj]

I didnt said if the registrar doesnt give the the whole domain history - it is a crap registrar.
I just said if you try to reach a support and never get any help or get it in 3-4 days or later - this is a crap registrar.
It is also possible to try to reach the ICANN...
Anyway, if the seller is interested in sell the domain he will help you to get the permision for the registrar.
If tomorrow somebody offer me 26k for my domain - I will ask registrar to confirm to the seller all he would ask them.

Good luck with that whichever registrar you work with. If customer asks for "all that he would ask" and a registrar just hands it out, I'd actually be more concerned about that registrar and would deem THEM as crap.

Sucky Support, yes, they make for a crappy registrar. But not handing out information just because someone is paying for it (or a domain in this case and hence data is a freebie with the domain)

 

[maya-zir]

Good luck with that whichever registrar you work with. If customer asks for "all that he would ask" and a registrar just hands it out, I'd actually be more concerned about that registrar and would deem THEM as crap.
Sucky Support, yes, they make for a crappy registrar. But not handing out information just because someone is paying for it (or a domain in this case and hence data is a freebie with the domain)

Not "all that the seller would ask", but just confirm they had the domain for some time and confirm that the account doesnt seam to be hacked. They cant give 100% information, but at least this will give some more security.

 

[anantj]

Not "all that the seller would ask", but just confirm they had the domain for some time and confirm that the account doesnt seam to be hacked. They cant give 100% information, but at least this will give some more security.

You see, already you're bringing in so many conditions and reductions. This is exactly what happens. Making a blanket statement as you did in your initial comment is easy but difficult to implement or follow!

 

[tonecas]

Yes. In an ideal world, full of rainbow unicorns.

Do you have all papers? No. Have you seen all logs? No. Can you subpoena Netsol, Escrow, phone companies, banks? No. HOW (AND WHAT) ARE YOU GOING TO DISSECT?

have you read this thread? i know it's huge but a lot of interesting things have been uncovererd, without subpoenaing anyone. more to come...

 

[tonecas]

James Booth got the domain. But it is now said by the owner that the domain was stolen and sold to James Booth. So the owner Rebecca is at loss here. But both are victims as of now.

totally agree that both are victims. but they are not of the same kind of victims. Rebecca has been robed, James Booth has a stolen property and he knows that.

 

[Keith]

have you read this thread? i know it's huge but a lot of interesting things have been uncovererd, without subpoenaing anyone. more to come...

Seems like Boothe had to know the domain was fishy to begin with. He went out of his way to disclose all the “homework” that was done prior to the purchase. In general, you can get a handle on the owner of a domain real quick.

He’s clearly not going to give it back so it’s on Rebecca to sue. She is either willing to get a lawyer or she’s not. If a case hasn’t been filed already I doubt it will happen. If this were my LLL we’d already be in court...

 

[tjl92]

James Booth got the domain. But it is now said by the owner that the domain was stolen and sold to James Booth. So the owner Rebecca is at loss here. But both are victims as of now.

ah I see...the whole thing is pretty wild! Like the wild wild west out here in domaining land!

 

[equity78]

Seems like Boothe had to know the domain was fishy to begin with. He went out of his way to disclose all the “homework” that was done prior to the purchase. In general, you can get a handle on the owner of a domain real quick.

He’s clearly not going to give it back so it’s on Rebecca to sue. She is either willing to get a lawyer or she’s not. If a case hasn’t been filed already I doubt it will happen. If this were my LLL we’d already be in court...

I think you are right 100%, James is not giving this domain back, so it's time to take this up another notch, sometimes people get caught up in forum frenzy. "Hey I posted something and it got 40 likes, we are on our way." The only people who have the ability to affect change are Rebecca and James. If stuff comes out here and people are working in stealth mode, means very little. Unless James gives the name back it's really all for naught. If I were Rebecca I would call Stevan Lieberman who was successful with MLA.com and at least ask his thoughts, I believe he will have a conversation for no fee.

 

[Keith]

I think you are right 100%, James is not giving this domain back, so it's time to take this up another notch, sometimes people get caught up in forum frenzy. "Hey I posted something and it got 40 likes, we are on our way." The only people who have the ability to affect change are Rebecca and James. If stuff comes out here and people are working in stealth mode, means very little. Unless James gives the name back it's really all for naught. If I were Rebecca I would call Stevan Lieberman who was successful with MLA.com and at least ask his thoughts, I believe he will have a conversation for no fee.

She could have many no cost conversations with industry pros. I believe @jberryhill has already replied somewhere in this thread. That’s an obvious start!

 

[golan]

have you read this thread? i know it's huge but a lot of interesting things have been uncovererd, without subpoenaing anyone. more to come...

Sure, i'm following, have read every single post here.

a lot of interesting things have been uncovererd

A lot, but not all...

 

[equity78]

She could have many no cost conversations with industry pros. I believe @jberryhill has already replied somewhere in this thread. That’s an obvious start!

Well the important part Keith is knowing whether or not Rebecca is going to pursue this and can she afford it?

 

[Keith]

Well the important part Keith is knowing whether or not Rebecca is going to pursue this and can she afford it?

The money part is a huge problem when talking about stolen domains. How many domains are worth the cost of legal representation? This is why the decision by netsol is so important in this instance. They seem to not really know what to do. They took the domain away and then gave it back to booth. I’d rather see the burden of proof fall on the new registrant as that makes the most sense. Let him pay the legal bill to go to court after the domain has been returned to the account holder who’s had it for years. The registrar should never take the word of a new registrant over a domain holder of many years!

 

[equity78]

The money part is a huge problem when talking about stolen domains. How many domains are worth the cost of legal representation? This is why the decision by netsol is so important in this instance. They seem to not really know what to do. They took the domain away and then gave it back to booth. I’d rather see the burden of proof fall on the new registrant as that makes the most sense. Let him pay the legal bill to go to court after the domain has been returned to the account holder who’s had it for years. The registrar should never take the word of a new registrant over a domain holder of many years!

True, at a minimum Network Solutions should be transparent about their decision making process. Now James said they did a 3 month investigation, at a minimum they should have provided Rebecca with the full details of that investigation and why they took her name out of her account after two decades, it makes no sense.

I believe and again it's just my opinion, no info or facts, I just think these companies only reply to aggression, and in these cases aggression is legal action. Twitter did nothing for us when @TheDomains was hacked, when Mike filed suit, here's your account back. Didn't even have the decency to reply to several complaints not just from us but from followers.

So I can only think Net Sol/Web.com is saying bring it on Rebecca, until then we are done.

 

[Silentptnr]

True, at a minimum Network Solutions should be transparent about their decision making process. Now James said they did a 3 month investigation, at a minimum they should have provided Rebecca with the full details of that investigation and why they took her name out of her account after two decades, it makes no sense.

I believe and again it's just my opinion, no info or facts, I just think these companies only reply to aggression, and in these cases aggression is legal action. Twitter did nothing for us when @TheDomains was hacked, when Mike filed suit, here's your account back. Didn't even have the decency to reply to several complaints not just from us but from followers.

So I can only think Net Sol/Web.com is saying bring it on Rebecca, until then we are done.

The only thing we know is that Rebecca made posts on complaint sites. She hinted at a UDRP, and early on mentioned the FBI and her relatives in politics.

No litigation as far as I've read.

 

[equity78]

The only thing we know is that Rebecca made posts on complaint sites. She hinted at a UDRP, and early on mentioned the FBI and her relatives in politics.

No litigation as far as I've read.

I mentioned the UDRP I doubt she even knew what a UDRP was.

 

[creataweb]

She said she filed UDRP (unless I misunderstood the response from the question)

 

[slader23]

Is an asset worth $30k-$50k really worth potentially losing your reputation? I wouldn't chance it. Even if I'd get to keep the domain, it's tough to see how other people operating in the same industry can view this kind of behavior as ethical. Once your personal brand gets labelled "unethical" or "shady", it will take a lot of work to regain the trust of your peers.

I don't have full disclosure but based on the limited information presented by other members on this thread it just doesn't seem advisable to continue keeping the name given the high probability that it's ownership was compromised to facilitate the transaction.

This thread isn't going anywhere and neither is the litigation risk should any evidence Rebecca has hold merit. She may not have the money now but if she were to ever pursue, that risk will fall onto the next owner should Booth sell this name.


Looking at this realistically whoever buys it is really paying:


Booth's New Price for CQD.com + (The Probability of Litigation by Rebecca X Potential Loss)


Any smart business or domainer would avoid buying this name until it's rightful owner has been confirmed in court.

 

[Kate]

In real life, when you buy an expensive asset, say some valuable art piece and somebody comes knocking a few weeks later and says "Look Sir, you are in possession of an asset that was stolen from me. Please give it back to me".
If you bought it in good faith would you return it without question, assuming all the evidence checks out OK, or would you tell the other party "I am very sorry this happened to you, but please go after the thief, not me. It is unfortunate that you were hacked but I shouldn't foot the bill for it".

Unless of course the buyer was negligent or worse turned a blind eye on too many red flags indicating the asset was tainted, but you still have to prove it.

On the other hand I can't see how this domain could be resold now.

Rebecca indeed did mention UDRP and it is what makes me think she has no legal representation. Waste of money and effort in the present situation.
When you're fighting against somebody who has a lawyer, and you don't have a lawyer and you are not one - guess who usually wins ?

 

[equity78]

; ) i have.

When did you file the UDRP Rebecca? Did you get a domain lawyer?

 

[equity78]

In real life, when you buy an expensive asset, say some valuable art piece and somebody comes knocking a few weeks later and says "Look Sir, you are in possession of an asset that was stolen from me. Please give it back to me".
If you bought it in good faith would you return it without question, assuming all the evidence checks out OK, or would you tell the other party "I am very sorry this happened to you, but please go after the thief, not me. It is unfortunate that you were hacked but I shouldn't foot the bill for it".

That's true Kate but in most countries you can't remain in possession of stolen property. You certainly can't try to sell it to someone else.