warning I lose $42,000 on an escrow.com transaction as pdd.com, help please.

[American]

Hi,
I bought pdd.com via escrow.com and the seller took the domain back on networksolutions.com after he received the money $42,000 US dollar.

for detailed information, please view http://www.drjw.com/

Any suggestions about what I can do is welcome, thank you!

If you know a lawyer who is an expert in online domain name disputes, please tell me his/her contact information, thank you very much!

 

[jberryhill]

A Shady Story..

Oh, stay tuned. This thread is going to become even more surprisingly entertaining than you imagine.

Once @teradomains notices that "Patrick Sitrok" first gets paid his asking price in euros for 3620.com, but then gets paid his asking price in dollars for this one, there's going to be a lot more questions to ponder.

 

[Syed Moeen Uddin]

Dear I just can pray for you. May Allah Bless you in the best Possible way!

 

[BrandMart]

Just out of curiosity, I usually use domaintools and domainiq for WHOIS history data. Does anyone recognize the screenshot used for the whois history posted at drjw.com, and what site that might have come from?

That's a pretty new domain history interface to me. I use Domaintools too. Maybe this one is from Hosterstats? i may be wrong though.

 

[decades80]

It smells fishy. It reminds me of a Story few months back at NPs when OP claiming he lost money was actually a scammer himself.

 

[tech4]

We could make a movie out of this, I hope someone gets to the end of this and find out the roles of the PDD, NS, Escrow, and Chinese buyer and the seller. This could be the best movie ever!

If I have 50K right now I go on the interviewing spree and set up a movie about this. If someone make this movie, hire me. I have good narrative voice.

 

[DN_Hunter]

After reading through the details the OP posted at drjw.com -- just wondering if Patrick is ok from his "car accident" </end sarcasm>, and also wondering why he signs his emails as "Stas K." (what does that mean?) Is it a slip up and part of his signature in email app?

 

[xynames]

@American

Did you use someone elses escrow account to complete the transaction?

Or did you use your own escrow account?

yes,i used my friend id.

Has your friend been contacting escrow then because I don’t see how escrow would discuss this matter with an outside party. Or have you been logging into your friend’s escrow and sending messages as if you were the account holder?

This wrinkle makes the criminal investigation and potential lawsuit a bit muddier.

Consider a bank account belonging to A. B wires money to A’s bank account but then C scams the money out of the bank account. The victim is B for legal purposes.

Your case isn’t as clear because it would add the wrinkle of that scammer C promised to provide something to A and did not, but still the less straight forward the matter the harder to prosecute or litigate successfully.

But now we have two parties who must present themselves for testimony - you (“American”) and the escrow account holder. Two parties who may be overseas or not even in the same country, with a scammer who may be in a third country.

You might want to contact the current domain holder and see if he’d be willing to file a criminal complaint regarding theft of the domain. Of course for that, law enforcement might not bother because there is no loss - domain was returned - but perhaps worth a try.

I’m not sure how the original owner got the domain back so quickly. Remember this?
https://www.domainsherpa.com/calvins-domain-theft/
Short of a udrp action which is applicable only where a TM is involved, a lawsuit is generally needed to recover a domain. Or a criminal action, which might take just as long as a civil lawsuit.

 

[jberryhill]

That's a pretty new domain history interface to me. I use Domaintools too. Maybe this one is from Hosterstats?

It would be interesting to know, since the history (from wherever it might be) posted at drjw seems to indicate that Netsol abuse had already been engaged on this before the alleged sale. But not knowing where the data comes from, I'm not sure what to make of it.

@American - What site are you using for domain history data?

Pointedly, this question from @Grilled goes unanswered here:

If you wouldn't mind posting a screenshot, I am interested to see how the sale of PDD.com was negotiated.

Another question for @American would be why is your name "Lou Zhi Yong" in your emails, but "Yue Er" when you registered gjfj.com?

Registrant Name: YUE ER
Registrant Organization:
Registrant Street: NEIMENGGUTONGLIAOSHI
Registrant City: TONGLIAOSHI
Registrant State/Province: NE
Registrant Postal Code: 028000
Registrant Country: CN
Registrant Phone: +86.15047471717
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax: +86.
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: [email protected]

(that's from WHOIS history back in October 2017)

Is Yue Er another friend of yours who borrows your email address?

So, sometimes your name is "Lou Zhi Yong" at Netsol, sometimes your name is "Ye Tian" when you borrow your friend's ID at Escrow.com, and over at Enom your name is "Yue Er".

Do I have that right?

 

[BrandMart]

This is heading towards a big puzzle. I guess @American has some info to share to prove that he/she actually is a legit buyer here.

How the tables have turned..

 

[jberryhill]

yes,i used my friend id

In other words, you were dishonest and lied to Escrow.com about who you are, and you expect... what?

 

[Domains - Wanted]

From Netsol's perspective, there is no meaningful distinction between "buyer of a stolen domain name" and "person who stole the domain name".

Be that as it may, NetSol's determinations, perceptions, suspicions and intentions are their own and they are responsible if this results in negligence which contributed to their client's (OP's) loss.

Two apparently stolen domain names were transferred to an account. What conclusion might someone reach if stolen cars keep ending up in your garage?

Another scenario consistent with the facts is that two friends steal a domain name which has fallen into disuse...

Careful in drawing such quick conclusions where a Chinese buyer is concerned. Chinese standards and ways of conducting business are anathema to accepted western business practices. I lean towards this being a case of OP's typical Chinese laisser faire mixed with a healthy dose of incompetence, rather than complicity. Were OP acting in cahoots with the seller here:-

- why lock this domain up at NetSol instead of making damn sure it could be quickly transferred out to a Chinese registrar?

- why change nameservers (assumedly this is what has alerted the original registrant?) instead of waiting until the domain was "safely" in hand, say, transferred out, or sold to a real third party?

- and once the domain was recovered, why draw attention to their failed attempt by starting this thread here at NP, prompting an investigation into his "partner" as well as into himself by domain pros?

- and why mention the other domain bought from the same seller, risking its loss as well?

 

[MapleDots]

TBH, I'm not condemning Escrow.com. Given what I've read about them, I don't really have to. They're managing their own reputation very well themselves that we don't have to help them along (</sarcasm>). There is, however, a lot more that can and should be done for victims of fraud. As @jberryhill described earlier in this thread, having to spend a boatload of money to recover money that might be all that someone has or that someone can afford at a given point is not right and should change. Solutions? I don't really have any myself though

Do a giggle search for the last 5 letters...interesting results. I like the logo by the way.

HeHe - just spotted the </sarcasm> tag

Made me chuckle , funny how something like that can change the whole meaning of a post

 

[Brandon Abbey]

Just a quick story form the "wayback" machine you might find interesting and not an implication that this couldn't/wouldn't have happened on my watch. And please understand I do not know anything about the current policies and management accountability at the company since it has been over two years since my departure.

We had a transaction in late 2015 just prior to freelancer taking over. It was a three letter .com selling for $48,000. At the time all transactions over $15,000 had to be reviewed by my before funds were released. Sandra Gordon came to me with a concern over a transaction. Buyer and seller had passed KYC requirements and the domain had been transferred to the buyer who accepted it, our job was done once we paid the seller. But the seller was from Tennessee and the funds were being sent to eastern Europe. It didn't pass the smell test. Looking further I found the domain was actively being used as a redirect by a company in Tennessee. I called the company at the number on the website, explained I was the president of escrow.com calling about the sale of their domain. The woman that answered the phone listened patiently and said the domain wasn't for sale and hung up. I called back a second time and asked to speak to a manager. After explaining the situation again I got the same response and click. The letter .coms were very hot back then and they must have been getting a lot of calls. The third time I called before I could say anything the reply was "The domain is not for sale", click. Now at this point it was more of a challenge and I was getting pissed. On the website there were contact emails and I sent a very detailed email to everyone I could find. Within fifteen minutes I received a call from the CIO who confirmed my suspicions, their account had been hacked. In the end the domain was transferred back to the owner and the funds were returned to the buyer. I received a very nice letter from the CEO of the company that was later shared with me.

I do want to conclude by saying that it is not the responsibility of the escrow company to do the due diligence for the buyer. If you know the deal is too good to be true stay away from it, regardless of whether of not you are using an escrow company.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

In the mail, his time zone appears UTC + 2: 00, but his ip address is the United States, which is obviously impossible.

How did you gather his IP address?

Did you share that IP address / info with escrow.com, and network solutions so they can use it in their investigation?

Another question for @American would be why is your name "Lou Zhi Yong" in your emails, but "Yue Er" when you registered gjfj.com?

Registrant Name: YUE ER
Registrant Organization:
Registrant Street: NEIMENGGUTONGLIAOSHI
Registrant City: TONGLIAOSHI
Registrant State/Province: NE
Registrant Postal Code: 028000
Registrant Country: CN
Registrant Phone: +86.15047471717
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax: +86.
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: [email protected]

(that's from WHOIS history back in October 2017)

Perhaps @ErwanKina can vouch for OP, given it appears they have done business before on NP [FFRT], yet no trade review was left for what WHOIS looks to show a sale, and the fixed price sales thread is still open. HERE

Note: The email used below for GJFJ (above whois) is different than the below WHOIS.

 

[Jason.tv]

this is why domain names suck; good lord what a crappy business.

 

[eurorealtor]

this is why domain names suck; good lord what a crappy business.

I disagree, just make your homework before you spend $42k.

 

[jberryhill]

Be that as it may, NetSol's determinations, perceptions, suspicions and intentions are their own and they are responsible if this results in negligence which contributed to their client's (OP's) loss.

Before any registrar restores a stolen name - and this happens a lot - they get an indemnification from the party to whom they restore it, and also make sure that party is likely to be good for it.

Secondly, they don't reach that point until they have looked at all of the data available to them and made a decision on the basis of their experience in looking at these sorts of things, and decide "how much of a risk of error is there?". Can they be wrong? Sure. There is always a risk of error, but that's true either way.

Careful in drawing such quick conclusions where a Chinese buyer is concerned.

Stating "another scenario consistent with the facts" is not a "conclusion" of any kind. I believe I have proposed about three or four so far. And, sure, the facts are also consistent with the sorts of business practices which sometimes strike others as unusual or inappropriate.

and once the domain was recovered, why draw attention to their failed attempt by starting this thread here at NP, prompting an investigation by experts?

You'd be surprised. We had a similar thread at Namepros a while back:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/any-help-domain-name-locked-due-to-pending-tdrp-complaint.1026338/

The OP of that thread IS the domain thief, and came to Namepros to seek help on how to avoid having the name transferred back. Massive balls of pure titanium, that one.

The reason for doing this sort of thing is to test out different scenarios, have us point out the inconsistencies, and then go back to the drawing board. The accumulated expertise and differing perspectives here provide a valuable test bed for finding the flaws in scams.

The OP uses at least three names I've counted so far, and admits to using a false identity to engage in an escrow transaction. As you note, that could be the sort of usual bumbling around by someone who is not sure what they are doing or how it might be perceived, and can have entirely innocent explanations.

@Grilled the prior registrant of gjfj.com - highlighted on your list - is someone I have advised in the past. I contacted them this morning and they confirmed to me that the name was legitimately sold in September via Namejet. It has passed through at least three other registrants in China since that time. The WHOIS information I posted is historical data from October 18, per next post.

 

[jberryhill]

 

[Chris Hydrick]

@Grilled the prior registrant of gjfj.com - highlighted on your list - is someone I have advised in the past. I contacted them this morning and they confirmed to me that the name was legitimately sold in September via Namejet. It has passed through at least three other registrants in China since that time.

Good to know. I highlighted it because without it, I might not have noticed that FFRT.com is no longer in @ErwanKina WHOIS. I noticed OP had made offer below BIN, but the thread is still open, and it looked like Erwan didn't accept the buy offer. Now, upon seeing WHOIS is now what looks to be for @American, I can only assume a successful transaction occurred. If it did occur @ErwanKina needs to close his thread, and issue trade ratings. Otherwise, somebody could post sold in his thread, and according to NP rules, if Erwan didn't deliver, he could receive a negative trade review. Not saying anything nefarious occurred, just noting what looks to be a sold domain, on a still open sales thread.

Show attachment 77382

 

[Chris Hydrick]

That's a pretty new domain history interface to me. I use Domaintools too. Maybe this one is from Hosterstats? i may be wrong though.

I believe I have seen that whois history interface before. Having a hard time recalling exactly where, but if OP doesn't answer, I'll do some digging to uncover it. Pretty sure it's via a chinese domain site, and it might be one of those where you have to log in to access the historical feature. Not 100% though, hoping OP answers, as I don't want to go digging through chinese sites. The orange coloring makes me think something similar to 22.cn.

 

[BrandMart]

I believe I have seen that whois history interface before. Having a hard time recalling exactly where, but if OP doesn't answer, I'll do some digging to uncover it. Pretty sure it's via a chinese domain site, and it might be one of those where you have to log in to access the historical feature. Not 100% though, hoping OP answers, as I don't want to go digging through chinese sites. The orange coloring makes me think something along the lines of 22.cn.

I have a hunch that OP isn't a genuine buyer. With all the 'my friends' email id, escrow account and complaints under his name, makes this a big jumble-mumble and ends up looking like a clown just trying to sell an age old prank for some money.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

I have a hunch that OP isn't a genuine buyer. With all the 'my friends' email id, escrow account and complaints under his name, makes this a big jumble-mumble and ends up looking like a clown just trying to sell an age old prank for some money.

I'm not exactly sure what's going on as of yet. There's not enough public information compiled for me to make a conclusive assertion. Has anybody tried contacting the previous owner via phone to get their side?

Last month, I was looking for additional information for some domains that were reported as sold via NP blog HERE. More so I was wondering how the blog gathered information to report the sale, and I questioned the sale of a domain which, shortly after, was being brokered on NP by @American. I believe WHOIS showed a midai.com email address..

Looking back now, according to this thread HERE, @American claims to have operated in a broker capacity before. Perhaps, he was simply brokering domains, and/or middlemanning which resulted in WHOIS questions?

 

[tech4]

Does anyone have whois for past owner of 3620 to see if it is related to PDD ? BTW how do I find a previous whois record? Is it paid or free? Thanks

 

[BrandMart]

I'm not exactly sure what's going on as of yet. There's not enough public information compiled for me to make a conclusive assertion. Has anybody tried contacting the previous owner via phone to get their side?

Last month, I was looking for additional information for some domains that were reported as sold via NP blog HERE. More so I was wondering how the blog gathered information to report the sale, and I questioned the sale of a domain which, shortly after, was being brokered on NP by @American. I believe WHOIS showed a midai.com email address..

Looking back now, according to this thread HERE, @American claims to have operated in a broker capacity before. Perhaps, he was simply brokering domains, and/or middlemanning which resulted in WHOIS questions?

Possibly. Still the thread smells fishy...

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Does anyone have whois for past owner of 3620 to see if it is related to PDD ? BTW how do I find a previous whois record? Is it paid or free? Thanks

Whoxy.com --- fo free.

The previous owner of 3620 (I think) is out of France, and he doesn't appear to have visible digital footprints to PDD. Only connection I see as of now is both were regged at NetSol. Since OP claims to have bought both from Patrick, I wonder if the 4N was also a stolen domain.

reminder: 4N was purchased at Sedo. 3L was purchased via Escrow.com.

How did negotiations occur? Email? Chat? ie some type of communication must have occurred for OP to arrange escrow transaction through a previous seller he bought from.