Bidding on your own names at NameJet...?

[webquest]

Once in awhile I see people bidding on their own domains at NJ. I would think it would be frowned upon.

Today's seems more obvious than normal. Or am I missing something here?

Airlinejobs.com owned by Andy Booth at Booth.com and high bidder is BQDNcom (James Booth).

3 bids down we see Boothcom as a bidder.

Same thing with MovieZone.com. Owned by Andy Booth in which he currently appears to be the high bidder.

High Bid: $2,475 USD by boothcom

They actually won their own domain airplanesforsale.com. Im guessing it didnt get as high as they wanted so needed to protect it.

Bidder Amount Date
bqdncom $2,001 7/17/2017 12:23 PM
boothcom $1,950 7/17/2017 12:23 PM

 

[offthehandle]

http://blog.goldnames.com/?m=20170718

http://website.informer.com/email/[email protected]

hkdn owns Jorge.com sold per this website above 7/18
take it from there.

Who listed it and bought it?

 

[offthehandle]

http://whois.alexa.cn/reverse_tel/?query=+1.8553653669

 

[hookbox]

@Michael is there a way of figuring out who the top 10 biggest players are on Namejet based on number of daily/monthly auctions and total sales?

I would assume that the biggest players are the ones that have the greatest advantage manipulating the auctions the most and easiest for you to track if they are shill bidding on their auctions.

 

[904.com]

Good job Namepros community. Since some domain bloggers censor my posts I will post here instead. New domain investors deserve better.

 

[Charley]

@Michael is there a way of figuring out who the top 10 biggest players are on Namejet based on number of daily/monthly auctions and total sales?

I'm interested in seeing this.

 

[Arca]

While the exact relationship between HKDN and Oliver Hoger is still unclear, and NameJet just responded that they don't think Oliver is HKDN (would be a lot more convincing if they let us know how they reached that conclusion), there is no doubt that seek and winner8888 belongs to Oliver.

Oliver Hoger has used his seek and winner8888 bid handles to bid on his own auctions 1000+ times. Seek is his main bid handle, and he has admitted to using the winner8888 bid handle too, and NameJet have stated that they banned the winner8888 bid handle earlier this year because Oliver was bidding on his own auctions with it. That he has bid on his own auctions is evident in the bidding records of his past auctions, where the "seek" and "winner8888" handles appear as bidders, sometimes bidding up the prices of his names aggressively. These records show Oliver bidding up his own auctions.

Isn't this serious enough for NameJet to take action against him? Or do they consider this activity too minor for any repercussions? Is NJ action against him contingent on whether or not he is also HKDN?

 

[904.com]

Here is my post from TheDomains yesterday under handle "R P":

(1) Circa 2015 I was high bidder at $19.5K and then last minute new guy comes in and bidders 2 & 3 take the domain up to $34K. It was no reserve. The domain never sold or exchanged hands, oddly enough.

(2) Circa 2011 I was high bidder at around $25K and a new bidder emerges and pushes domain to $33K (my high bid was $32K). Im contacted by auction house saying the bidder backed out and the domain is mine for $32K. I said what? What about $25K because this other bidder raised the price $7K and couldnt pay? The answer was “sorry thats our policy”.

 

[Recons.Com]

Here is my post from TheDomains yesterday under handle "R P":

(1) Circa 2015 I was high bidder at $19.5K and then last minute new guy comes in and bidders 2 & 3 take the domain up to $34K. It was no reserve. The domain never sold or exchanged hands, oddly enough.

(2) Circa 2011 I was high bidder at around $25K and a new bidder emerges and pushes domain to $33K (my high bid was $32K). Im contacted by auction house saying the bidder backed out and the domain is mine for $32K. I said what? What about $25K because this other bidder raised the price $7K and couldnt pay? The answer was “sorry thats our policy”.

Another proof that NJ is set the way that they benefit from shill bidders in many ways. At least at GD when bidder backed off they contacted me and told me the name was mine at around $300, not at over $3K...

 

[Dnbolt]

`

 

[904.com]

Fairly certain 2011 was Sedo/GD, not NJ. 2015 was NJ. Those are last two auctions I participated in. Before that a few at GD and Latona where I didn't encounter any problems I felt could be improrpieities.

 

[Recons.Com]

Fairly certain 2011 was Sedo/GD, not NJ. 2015 was NJ. Those are last two auctions I participated in. Before that a few at GD and Latona where I didn't encounter any problems I felt could be improrpieities.

Ok, then you have to mention that, because the assumption here is that we are discussing NJ. And, I doubt it would be GD, as they do use the rule that they go back to status without winning bidder's bids.

The issue with GD is that they don't even disclose the bidder handles, unfortunately. And few others, but let's not go off topic here, as that is what shill bidders wanting for everyone to wander off on the "branches" of discussions here.

 

[Silentptnr]

I'm afraid it seems much of this is falling on deaf ears. It's really a shame. I guess the message is clear. I've learned some things I never knew, and I feel like that is a good thing.

Not sure what more to say. This community has and continues to be vigilant in rejecting the kinds of issues brought to light here.

I sincerely hope that those that have been damaged by these dark, twisted, auctions will be made whole. You were bamboozled and that's only the fault of the platform for creating an expectation of safe, honest auctions and then allowing this practice to harm innocent people.

 

[904.com]

Ok, then you have to mention that, because the assumption here is that we are discussing NJ. And, I doubt it would be GD, as they do use the rule that they go back to status without winning bidder's bids.

The issue with GD is that they don't even disclose the bidder handles, unfortunately. And few others, but let's not go off topic here, as that is what shill bidders wanting for everyone to wander off on the "branches" of discussions here.

Please know when I wrote Sedo/GD it means Sedo/Great Domains, not Sedo or GoDaddy. I have never used Godaddy auctions before. My references to GD is Great Domains. Apologies for the confusion.

 

[Hemanttilotia]

The one thing that I am certain is that HKDN is Oliver only.
HKDN almost exclusively buys from Oliver and then somehow the whois of HKDN's domains get changed to reflect the ownership by Oliver, all in a few months.
HKDN was created just after NameJet closed Oliver's 888 bot.
HKDN comes just to bump up the price, I have posted here as how it bumps price from $80 to next bid at $4000.
Almost every time, it misses the reserve.
Almost on every auction of Oliver with a reserve of $500 or more, it makes a $501 bid, regardless of the last higher bid that was made.
In public auctions too of Oliver, both Seek and HKDN bid, trying to inflate the price, with bids still just missing the reserves.
Just after this thread gained steam, neither Seek nor HKDN made any counter bid on their already running auctions. Coincidence?
At times, when you like a domain, you increase your bid to hit the reserve. But not the case with HKDN.
HKDN never tries to make a counter bid if he's leading the auction of a domain.
He just waits for some one else to come in and make a higher bid to meet the reserve.

 

[904.com]

The one thing that I am certain is that HKDN is Oliver only.
HKDN almost exclusively buys from Oliver and then somehow the whois of HKDN's domains get changed to reflect the ownership by Oliver, all in a few months.
HKDN was created just after NameJet closed Oliver's 888 bot.
HKDN comes just to bump up the price, I have posted here as how it bumps price from $80 to next bid at $4000.
Almost every time, it misses the reserve.
Almost on every auction of Oliver with a reserve of $500 or more, it makes a $501 bid, regardless of the last higher bid that was made.
In public auctions too of Oliver, both Seek and HKDN bid, trying to inflate the price, with bids still just missing the reserves.
Just after this thread gained steam, neither Seek nor HKDN made any counter bid on their already running auctions. Coincidence?
At times, when you like a domain, you increase your bid to hit the reserve. But not the case with HKDN.
HKDN never tries to make a counter bid if he's leading the auction of a domain.
He just waits for some one else to come in and make a higher bid to meet the reserve.

This is most likely all algorithmic, like high frequency trading in the stock market. The difference is that in the stock market you are legally allowed to buy your stock back on the open market (during certain time periods). With no reserve auctions you cannot play market maker and bid your domain up to a price of your liking. As an auditor, I would have to have access to all of the APIs to understand what is fully going on. Some of the stuff most likely legit. Some not. But my underlying problem is a no reserve auction system for domains in which your own algorithm can bid on your own domains. Against TOS and big no no.

It appears that some of these algorithmic accounts are trying to play market maker but legally I dont think they are allowed to do so.

 

[deez007]

HI,

Sorry for delay i was traveling and cannot believe what has been said.

Everyone let me explain:

Winner888:
I have a automated bidding system that would backorder ALL the domains and bid last minute to grab bargains.
Its a script works via api would bid on all CVCV up to $2500-3000 i set daily limit on the patterns i would want to buy.

On slow days i got good deals on short domains i trade in
LLLL.com / CVCV.com / LL.com / LLL.com / NNNN.com / NNNNN.com / CCC.com etc...

I won allot of domains and a few of mine so this got closed down months ago already due to this..
Im trying to fix to be able to exclude all my domains.

Bids that hit reserve:
We do allot of next bid wins. Most of you don't know how this works.
My auctions have a reserve price. On the last day of the auction or in the last few hours
I see what the high bids are and then send namejet a list of domains ask to to set next bid wins.
So it is not that someone is bidding just under reserve.
I am lowering the reserve to just above the highest bid so that the next bid hits reserve and the domain will sell.
Just lowering reserve. Flippa has this same function built into their seller platform. You can reduce reserve any time.
Buyers are bidding the amount that they are willing to bid. I am not changing that.
I just lower reserve with next bid wins so that more domains sell.

Regarding MediaOptions:
I have done business with them for many years on the buyer’s side, seller’s side and as a broker.

Regarding HDKN:
I know HDKN and he is a big buyer of short domains, which is what I sell. I am not HDKN. I do not have access to HDKN account.
I sent him (and others) my featured listings.
All his bids and purchases are legitimate.
It has happened that I have bought some domains back from him in the past when I felt the prices were too low.

I'm sorry that I have caused so much problems and confusion. I never intended to do anything that would harm anyone.

Oliver.

Olvier, I am not making any accusations at all. I am asking because I find this a little baffling....

You say that you have an automated bidding system, assuming you had this custom made or you coded it yourself. Now, I'm not a programmed but I have on various occassion for various reasons been invloved with software development lifecycles...so I have some understanding of the process, what I find odd is that you say that you are working on a "fix" to be able to exclude all your domains... like I said, I am not a programmer but surely all this would entail is having a database of all your domains that the bidding system would call upon before bidding and then omit itself from bidding on domains in this database. I would imagine that is not a difficult function to add, or am I missing something here? (perhaps a developer/programmer here could clarify this for us?) - I'm sure that you fully understood that bidding on your own domains is a problem and not a small one, I would have thought that knowing fully well what the implications are of biding on your own domains are.. you would have resloved this "bug" before you even went live with your automated bidding system?. It's almost like Porshe releasing a new model in their range that looks awesome and peformes like a beast but the brakes dont work yet they release it anway saying..."we will sort the brake problems out soon".

 

[Hemanttilotia]

Yes, HKDN aka Oliver aka Seek has a lot of explaining to do.
I do think that things will become clearer if MediaOptions or its founder care to share his NameJet handle/s.

 

[Hemanttilotia]

I have learned my lesson here and for me it doesn't matter as to how NameJet will handle this situation now.
Whenever I will bid on NameJet, I will do remember that I am up against the seller, his friends, his bots and others.
The price that they are bidding is just setting up of a trap for me.
Never listen to @DomainSherpa , as Andrew and others are trying to influence your thinking there by telling you all BS.
And yes, I had asked NameJet to cancel my auctions where I thought Oliver manipulated using his aliases.
NameJet has denied any wrongdoing, but has refunded me back the amount, in good faith !!

 

[Beezy]

And yes, I had asked NameJet to cancel my auctions where I thought Oliver manipulated using his aliases.
NameJet has denied any wrongdoing, but has refunded me back the amount, in good faith !!

Whoa... you got a refund?

 

[tonyk2000]

Andy and Oliver should better clarify thier state of mind in relevant (I mean bidding on domains in question) time.

Other things - even though uncommon - are not necessary important here. It may well be that Oliver elected to list domains for Andy even though Andy also has NJ account, and Andy accepted. There may be so many legit explanations starting with traveling, lack of api access, etc and ending with accounting or anything $$$-related but unrelated to this thread.
Also, it is unlikely that a proof of alleged purchase, which Andy thought has (or should have) happened, ever exists. Indeed, good friends would unlikely go to an external escrow to have their sale documented, nor would they necessary use pre-payment sale model.

So, Andy and Oliver:

both you and Oliver were actively bidding "against each other" in earnest? You never stopped to think to ask him why he's driving up the price on a domain he owns and same with him asking you (since you were both confused on who owned the domain)?

It appears it IS the key.

 

[Hemanttilotia]

I have just received the handle/s of MediaOptions.
I will do some digging and keep you all posted, though I hope he's not doing what he's preaching.

 

[tonyk2000]

NameJet has denied any wrongdoing, but has refunded me back the amount, in good faith !!

Did they simply sent your payment back, or maybe they agreed to reverse the transaction so that the domain or domains in question are no longer yours?

 

[creataweb]

Looking forward to more info so I can crosscheck my buys at NJ as well.

 

[aishwin]

The one thing that I am certain is that HKDN is Oliver only.
HKDN almost exclusively buys from Oliver and then somehow the whois of HKDN's domains get changed to reflect the ownership by Oliver, all in a few months.
HKDN was created just after NameJet closed Oliver's 888 bot.
HKDN comes just to bump up the price, I have posted here as how it bumps price from $80 to next bid at $4000.
Almost every time, it misses the reserve.
Almost on every auction of Oliver with a reserve of $500 or more, it makes a $501 bid, regardless of the last higher bid that was made.
In public auctions too of Oliver, both Seek and HKDN bid, trying to inflate the price, with bids still just missing the reserves.
Just after this thread gained steam, neither Seek nor HKDN made any counter bid on their already running auctions. Coincidence?
At times, when you like a domain, you increase your bid to hit the reserve. But not the case with HKDN.
HKDN never tries to make a counter bid if he's leading the auction of a domain.
He just waits for some one else to come in and make a higher bid to meet the reserve.

Now that I am doing more research on the domains I recently purchased. I won 4 domains last week to which the previous owner was Oliver Hoger as per Whois history.

"HKDN" is seen raising the auction prices.
As per attached screenshots.

 

[jaybuk]

I'm pretty sure HKDN is NOT Oliver.

https://dsad.com/emergence-quad-premium-llll-coms-oliver-hoger-jack-kalfayan/

I'm not saying HKDN is Jack Kalfayan. Those of you with unlimited Whois history searches may be able to shed some more light here.