Bidding on your own names at NameJet...?

[webquest]

Once in awhile I see people bidding on their own domains at NJ. I would think it would be frowned upon.

Today's seems more obvious than normal. Or am I missing something here?

Airlinejobs.com owned by Andy Booth at Booth.com and high bidder is BQDNcom (James Booth).

3 bids down we see Boothcom as a bidder.

Same thing with MovieZone.com. Owned by Andy Booth in which he currently appears to be the high bidder.

High Bid: $2,475 USD by boothcom

They actually won their own domain airplanesforsale.com. Im guessing it didnt get as high as they wanted so needed to protect it.

Bidder Amount Date
bqdncom $2,001 7/17/2017 12:23 PM
boothcom $1,950 7/17/2017 12:23 PM

 

[Arca]

21 pages, 24+ hours, and 17,600 views later, and not a single person accused of shill bidding and other improper activity at NameJet has yet to come here to defend themselves with any evidence that there has not been misconduct on their part. Why not? It makes zero sense.

Looking back at the initial statements made by the Booth brothers, when ittle was known about this situation, this is what they had to say:

When this story first broke, Andy Booth stated that the names that set off this whole thread (moviezone.com and more) were posted for sale by another NJ seller, so he was in the clear because he's not the NameJet seller or owner (an explanation NameJet accepted at the time! No wonder this kind of activity has flourished on their platform...). However, that “other” seller has been revealed to be his close associate Oliver Hoger (NJ seller/alleged current owner of these names), and both Oliver Hoger, Andy Booth (alleged former owner of these names and current owner according to WHOIS), and James Booth (Oliver Hoger's close business associate and Andy's brother) bid up these names together at NameJet.

Shortly after, James Booth posted a statement saying that “From what I understand Andy sold a bunch of names to someone who lists most of their names at Namejet with no reserves.” That someone has been revealed to be James close associate, Oliver Hoger, so James was knowingly bidding on domains formerly owned by his brother, allegedly sold to their friend Oliver (though still in his brothers ownership in WHOIS), and both his brother Andy, and his friend Oliver, and James all participated in the same auctions! And the reason that someone, aka Oliver, "lists most of their names at Namejet with no reserves" is because he operates a bunch of shill bidding handles to drive up the prices, in lieu of setting a reserve.

These "explanations" don't look so good anymore, and NameJet's initial lackluster investigation certainly indicates why all this shilling could take place at their platform.

However, if this is all a big misunderstanding and they did nothing wrong, why don’t they come here and provide and explanation of what “really” happened in these auctions? They are closely checking this thread every few minutes, don’t they have time to spend a few minutes to explain themselves and provide some evidence to save their reputations? The bidding window at NameJet has ended for the day. So they should be free to come here now and prove everyone in this thread wrong.

MediaOptions still hasn't bothered to post a statement to deny and provide evidence against the numerous shill bidding accusations that reputable NamePros members have directed at him, even as these were made to him as he was actively taking part in this thread. He surely saw them, but decided to ignore all of them.

Oliver Hoger, who seems to be the biggest wrongdoer by a large margin so far, with lots of different shill bidding handles and a significant amount of suspicious auction bidding activity, is also not saying anything to defend himself.

Why are these prominent domainers silently following this thread as more and more incriminating findings are posted, without trying to clear their names, or explaining what really went down in all these suspicious auctions? I'm sure they know the importance of trust and reputation in this industry. Why don't they fight for their innocence of these shill bidding accusations? If they really did nothing wrong, it makes no sense to silently sit on the sideline and watch their reputations and their integrity being ruined (and it probably won't do their future namejet auctions any good either, I surely won't be bid up by an of these bidding handles again, after all the info that has been posted so far).

So does this silence and lack of explanation from the domainers this thread is about mean that all of the allegations and evidence coming to light in this thread are actually truthful and accurate? Has NameJet really been that much of a shill bidding haven for these prominent domainers?

 

[xn--v4h.com]

you can auction it.. just don't bid on it.

Wait, he can't?

 

[xn--v4h.com]

21 pages, 24+ hours, and 17,600 views later, and not a single person accused of shill bidding and other improper activity at NameJet has yet to come here to defend themselves with any evidence that there has not been misconduct on their part. Why not? It makes zero sense.

Looking back at the initial statements made by the Booth brothers, when ittle was known about this situation, this is what they had to say:

When this story first broke, Andy Booth stated that the names that set off this whole thread (moviezone.com and more) were posted for sale by another NJ seller, so he was in the clear because he's not the NameJet seller or owner (an explanation NameJet accepted at the time! No wonder this kind of activity has flourished on their platform...). However, that “other” seller has been revealed to be his close associate Oliver Hoger (NJ seller/alleged current owner of these names), and both Oliver Hoger, Andy Booth (alleged former owner of these names and current owner according to WHOIS), and James Booth (Oliver Hoger's close business associate and Andy's brother) bid up these names together at NameJet.

Shortly after, James Booth posted a statement saying that “From what I understand Andy sold a bunch of names to someone who lists most of their names at Namejet with no reserves.” That someone has been revealed to be James close associate, Oliver Hoger, so James was knowingly bidding on domains formerly owned by his brother, allegedly sold to their friend Oliver (though still in his brothers ownership in WHOIS), and both his brother Andy, and his friend Oliver, and James all participated in the same auctions! And the reason that someone, aka Oliver, "lists most of their names at Namejet with no reserves" is because he operates a bunch of shill bidding handles to drive up the prices, in lieu of setting a reserve.

These "explanations" don't look so good anymore, and NameJet's initial lackluster investigation certainly indicates why all this shilling could take place at their platform.

However, if this is all a big misunderstanding and they did nothing wrong, why don’t they come here and provide and explanation of what “really” happened in these auctions? They are closely checking this thread every few minutes, don’t they have time to spend a few minutes to explain themselves and provide some evidence to save their reputations? The bidding window at NameJet has ended for the day. So they should be free to come here now and prove everyone in this thread wrong.

MediaOptions still hasn't bothered to post a statement to deny and provide evidence against the numerous shill bidding accusations that reputable NamePros members have directed at him, even as these were made to him as he was actively taking part in this thread. He surely saw them, but decided to ignore all of them.

Oliver Hoger, who seems to be the biggest wrongdoer by a large margin so far, with lots of different shill bidding handles and a significant amount of suspicious auction bidding activity, is also not saying anything to defend himself.

Why are these prominent domainers silently following this thread as more and more incriminating findings are posted, without trying to clear their names, or explaining what really went down in all these suspicious auctions? I'm sure they know the importance of trust and reputation in this industry. Why don't they fight for their innocence of these shill bidding accusations? If they really did nothing wrong, it makes no sense to silently sit on the sideline and watch their reputations and their integrity being ruined (and it probably won't do their future namejet auctions any good either, I surely won't be bid up by an of these bidding handles again, after all the info that has been posted so far).

So does this silence and lack of explanation from the domainers this thread is about mean that all of the allegations and evidence coming to light in this thread are actually truthful and accurate? Has NameJet really been that much of a shill bidding haven for these prominent domainers?

Ultimately they would HAVE to answer to the allegations. Innocent people would quickly and emphatically defend themselves in any type of question thrown at them because EVERYTHING they did was indeed done on good faith. Sure mistakes might have been made, BUT they would all be honest mistakes. Of course you won't be able to convince everyone despite you telling the whole truth but at least you explained yourself and the forthcoming evidence would back up what you said.

 

[NameJetGM]

In an effort to keep everyone current as to where we stand on this matter, I wanted to share the following update. There have been some inaccuracies and misconceptions that have been brought forth by such a spirited discussion. And it would be a challenge to respond to all of them - therefore, I want to bring the discussion back to the heart of the matter.

As stated earlier, we take the issue of shill bidding on NameJet very seriously and we are conducting a thorough investigation, keeping in mind that the integrity of our platform is of utmost importance to us. As I have said repeatedly, we do not condone shill bidding of any kind. We would never encourage, promote or otherwise be involved in any such thing and our position is clear – it is never allowed on NameJet!

In our current investigation certain auction activity has come to light that we deem questionable and a possible violation of our terms. This kind of activity is not acceptable to us and we are taking steps to deal with it. We have suspended several accounts while working through the information we have available.

I thank everyone for their patience as we work through these issues. Our goal is to best serve our customers and we are working hard to that effect.

-Jonathan

 

[Beezy]

In an effort to keep everyone current as to where we stand on this matter, I wanted to share the following update. There have been some inaccuracies and misconceptions that have been brought forth by such a spirited discussion. And it would be a challenge to respond to all of them - therefore, I want to bring the discussion back to the heart of the matter.

As stated earlier, we take the issue of shill bidding on NameJet very seriously and we are conducting a thorough investigation, keeping in mind that the integrity of our platform is of utmost importance to us. As I have said repeatedly, we do not condone shill bidding of any kind. We would never encourage, promote or otherwise be involved in any such thing and our position is clear – it is never allowed on NameJet!

In our current investigation certain auction activity has come to light that we deem questionable and a possible violation of our terms. This kind of activity is not acceptable to us and we are taking steps to deal with it. We have suspended several accounts while working through the information we have available.

I thank everyone for their patience as we work through these issues. Our goal is to best serve our customers and we are working hard to that effect.

-Jonathan

How are you going to investigate yourself, dawg?

 

[Suzoki]

This is a well thought out statement that helps cover their asses. I'm sure it was approved by legal counsel.
Unfortunately this will end up being too little and too late.

In an effort to keep everyone current as to where we stand on this matter, I wanted to share the following update. There have been some inaccuracies and misconceptions that have been brought forth by such a spirited discussion. And it would be a challenge to respond to all of them - therefore, I want to bring the discussion back to the heart of the matter.

As stated earlier, we take the issue of shill bidding on NameJet very seriously and we are conducting a thorough investigation, keeping in mind that the integrity of our platform is of utmost importance to us. As I have said repeatedly, we do not condone shill bidding of any kind. We would never encourage, promote or otherwise be involved in any such thing and our position is clear – it is never allowed on NameJet!

In our current investigation certain auction activity has come to light that we deem questionable and a possible violation of our terms. This kind of activity is not acceptable to us and we are taking steps to deal with it. We have suspended several accounts while working through the information we have available.

I thank everyone for their patience as we work through these issues. Our goal is to best serve our customers and we are working hard to that effect.

-Jonathan

 

[Internet.Domains]

In an effort to keep everyone current as to where we stand on this matter, I wanted to share the following update. There have been some inaccuracies and misconceptions that have been brought forth by such a spirited discussion. And it would be a challenge to respond to all of them - therefore, I want to bring the discussion back to the heart of the matter.

As stated earlier, we take the issue of shill bidding on NameJet very seriously and we are conducting a thorough investigation, keeping in mind that the integrity of our platform is of utmost importance to us. As I have said repeatedly, we do not condone shill bidding of any kind. We would never encourage, promote or otherwise be involved in any such thing and our position is clear – it is never allowed on NameJet!

In our current investigation certain auction activity has come to light that we deem questionable and a possible violation of our terms. This kind of activity is not acceptable to us and we are taking steps to deal with it. We have suspended several accounts while working through the information we have available.

I thank everyone for their patience as we work through these issues. Our goal is to best serve our customers and we are working hard to that effect.

-Jonathan

If I list ShillGate.com on NameJet, can I bid on it in a No Reserve auction?

 

[alcy]

In an effort to keep everyone current as to where we stand on this matter, I wanted to share the following update. There have been some inaccuracies and misconceptions that have been brought forth by such a spirited discussion. And it would be a challenge to respond to all of them - therefore, I want to bring the discussion back to the heart of the matter.

As stated earlier, we take the issue of shill bidding on NameJet very seriously and we are conducting a thorough investigation, keeping in mind that the integrity of our platform is of utmost importance to us. As I have said repeatedly, we do not condone shill bidding of any kind. We would never encourage, promote or otherwise be involved in any such thing and our position is clear – it is never allowed on NameJet!

In our current investigation certain auction activity has come to light that we deem questionable and a possible violation of our terms. This kind of activity is not acceptable to us and we are taking steps to deal with it. We have suspended several accounts while working through the information we have available.

I thank everyone for their patience as we work through these issues. Our goal is to best serve our customers and we are working hard to that effect.

-Jonathan

can't you write something more appropriate for the situation?
this looks like something NJ wrote 3 years ago.. just in case of a thread like this.

 

[Beezy]

EmptyPlatitudes.com available to register.

 

[Arca]

In an effort to keep everyone current as to where we stand on this matter, I wanted to share the following update. There have been some inaccuracies and misconceptions that have been brought forth by such a spirited discussion. And it would be a challenge to respond to all of them - therefore, I want to bring the discussion back to the heart of the matter.

As stated earlier, we take the issue of shill bidding on NameJet very seriously and we are conducting a thorough investigation, keeping in mind that the integrity of our platform is of utmost importance to us. As I have said repeatedly, we do not condone shill bidding of any kind. We would never encourage, promote or otherwise be involved in any such thing and our position is clear – it is never allowed on NameJet!

In our current investigation certain auction activity has come to light that we deem questionable and a possible violation of our terms. This kind of activity is not acceptable to us and we are taking steps to deal with it. We have suspended several accounts while working through the information we have available.

I thank everyone for their patience as we work through these issues. Our goal is to best serve our customers and we are working hard to that effect.

-Jonathan

Will you hire an independent and rigorous third party to carry out an in-depth audit of your platform?

If all of this has indeed been happening right under your nose for so long (please see all the evidence that has come to light in this thread, not just regarding the Booth's), is an in-house investigation really an adequate and sufficient response?

Your initial response to this thread, and all the information that has come to light in this thread, and other anecdotal information of the nature of your past "investigations" into suspicious bidding, suggests that it is not going to be adequate and sufficient.

 

[jaybuk]

This is all very disturbing. In light of all the research provided on this thread I decided to take a look at some of my past "wins". Please draw your own conclusions.

On January 20, 2017 I was the high bidder for a CVCV.com. The link "More domains from this seller - click here" ends in 6ifd5lvs . According to an earlier post from @Michael , the seller is Oliver Hoger. The 2nd high bidder was "Winner8888" at $5,799 and the 3rd highest bid is a mere $500 bid from user "chelsearam". "Winner8888" drove my proxy bid from $600 all the way up to my near max bid.



So who is "Winner8888"?

On or around 10-12 February 2017, the user "Winner8888" was the winning bidder for NVFL.com . WhoIs history shows "Oliver Hoger" as the registrant of this URL on 1-28-17 and he is still showing as the registrant today. On 2-19-17 the WhoIs changed to "VIRTUAL REAL ESTATE LIMITED" and "[email protected]" as the registered email. On 4-8-17 the WhoIs was updated back to reflect "Oliver Hoger" as the registrant.

Please draw your own conclusions. I would love to hear what @NameJetGM has to say about this.

EDIT: The same week that I won the CVCV.com for $5,899 (1-20-17), user "Winner8888" appeared to win the auction for XGSX.com . On 2-19-17 the WhoIs changed to Domain Admin as the registrant and "[email protected]" as the email.
Suite 4, 4 Giros Passage Gibraltar

I have just received a frightening response from NameJet support concerning the above. Seems as if they have known since earlier this year. Full text is quoted below with only the names retracted.

"Just following up in regard to our phone conversation earlier.

I met with XXXXXX regarding this, and she assured me that it was taken care of earlier this year. It did appear that the winner8888 alias may be associated with Oliver Hoger, and that account will no longer be bidding on those domains.
If you have any more recent examples of this type of behavior, please let us know.

If you have concerns regarding the auctions that already took place earlier this year, please continue to work with Jonathan directly.

Please feel free to reply back if you have any questions, or if there is anything else I can do for you.


Thanks,
XXXX"

 

[Recons.Com]

In an effort to keep everyone current as to where we stand on this matter, I wanted to share the following update. There have been some inaccuracies and misconceptions that have been brought forth by such a spirited discussion. And it would be a challenge to respond to all of them - therefore, I want to bring the discussion back to the heart of the matter.

As stated earlier, we take the issue of shill bidding on NameJet very seriously and we are conducting a thorough investigation, keeping in mind that the integrity of our platform is of utmost importance to us. As I have said repeatedly, we do not condone shill bidding of any kind. We would never encourage, promote or otherwise be involved in any such thing and our position is clear – it is never allowed on NameJet!

In our current investigation certain auction activity has come to light that we deem questionable and a possible violation of our terms. This kind of activity is not acceptable to us and we are taking steps to deal with it. We have suspended several accounts while working through the information we have available.

I thank everyone for their patience as we work through these issues. Our goal is to best serve our customers and we are working hard to that effect.

-Jonathan

Does this mean you will reimburse hundred of thousands for those who lost money due to the shill bidding that had been going on for some time?

Or you'll just stop for now as it has been uncovered and until a money generators with better tactics and more layers to hide come offering their names and commission to you?

 

[Jim Holleran]

Is Oliver Hoger in on this BS as well? I was about to do a bulk deal with him a few years ago privately, but took me 10 seconds to realize he is as sketchy as Fuck!

 

[Silentptnr]

Does this mean you will reimburse hundred of thousands for those who lost money due to the shill bidding that had been going on for some time?

Misstated...we have to be careful of this type of activity beyond our expectation of protection from the platform.

We all need to report anything suspicious like this. Thank goodness for the op bringing this to light.

 

[offthehandle]

Is Oliver Hoger in on this BS as well? I was about to do a bulk deal with him a few years ago privately, but took me 10 seconds to realize he is as sketchy as f*ck!

Tell us more about him.

 

[Arca]

I have just received a frightening response from NameJet support concerning the above. Seems as if they have known since earlier this year. Full text is quoted below with only the names retracted.

"Just following up in regard to our phone conversation earlier.

I met with XXXXXX regarding this, and she assured me that it was taken care of earlier this year. It did appear that the winner8888 alias may be associated with Oliver Hoger, and that account will no longer be bidding on those domains.
If you have any more recent examples of this type of behavior, please let us know.

If you have concerns regarding the auctions that already took place earlier this year, please continue to work with Jonathan directly.

Please feel free to reply back if you have any questions, or if there is anything else I can do for you.


Thanks,
XXXX"

How come Oliver Hoger has been allowed to be a seller to this day, if they have known about his additional shill bidding accounts for a longer period of time? If they know certain shill bidding accounts belong to Oliver Hoger, why did they just respond by suspending the shill bidding accounts, while letting him continue to sell names on their platform to this day, and while utilizing other shill bidding accounts? Shouldn't he have been banned from the platform once this became clear? Again, lackluster response, and not boding well for their internal investigation.

Please hire a third party with more thorough investigative capabilities and a more unforgiving response to such findings.

 

[urlurl]

 

[Recons.Com]

Problem is, if people get caught in a shill situation, it is up to them to get away as fast as possible....Like I do.

I saw issues with shill bidding right here on NP some time ago. There were no refunds, etc.

NP does not financially benefit from transactions here. NP does fantastic job ensuring the integrity of the platform.

Those two make for huge difference from NJ.

NJ must refund the buyers for the difference in shill bidding. Otherwise they are asking for legal trouble and millions in compensation and punitive damages. There is plenty evidence that they have at least shown incompetence in allowing all this to happen and there is good amount of circumstantial evidence that they might have colluded or ignored the problem because of the financial gains.

 

[LucidDomains]

Are suspended accounts going to be banned or end up with a slap on the wrist and told not to do it again?

 

[urlurl]

How come Oliver Hoger has been allowed to be a seller to this day, if they have known about his additional shill bidding accounts for a longer period of time? If they know certain shill bidding accounts belong to Oliver Hoger, why did they just respond by suspending the shill bidding accounts, while letting him continue to sell names on their platform to this day, and while utilizing other shill bidding accounts? Shouldn't he have been banned from the platform once this became clear? Again, lackluster response, and not boding well for their internal investigation.

Please hire a third party with more thorough investigative capabilities and a more unforgiving response to such findings.

That, is a very good question

 

[Jim Holleran]

I always had a great relationship with Namejet, sold lot's of names there, bought lot's of names there over the years, Jonathan has always been a class act, and so has Laurie. I trust they will do the right thing and clean this up.

I think the domain

Tell us more about him.

We agreed on a deal and he backed out, then one of his cronies came back with a lower offer. I gave a big "Kiss my Ass" So not only do these dudes do shill bidding, but work in pairs to verbal agree to deals, than back out, than 1 day later one of there buddies comes in on the same name with an offer lower. I seen everything in 20 years in this business, my gut is right 99.9% of the time. We need to protect the noobies from getting screwed over, thank god for Namepros, where people don't kiss ass, and expose the BS in the industry.

 

[Silentptnr]

Why have @andyboothsi and @BoothDomains suddenly gone hush?

I would think they would be trying to explain to the community.

 

[richface]

Namepros should take action to Ban Such members too, Industry Pro badge holders or not shill bidding should be absolutely responded with Harsh punishment! and the wider industry protected . We also need to know the people who have been suspended so we can stay clear of them. Make everything public.

 

[jaybuk]

NJ must refund the buyers for the difference in shill bidding. Otherwise they are asking for legal trouble and millions in compensation and punitive damages. There is plenty evidence that they have at least shown incompetence in allowing all this to happen and there is good amount of circumstantial evidence that they might have colluded or ignored the problem because of the financial gains.

Agree 100%. This is the solution. Along with taking out the trash.

 

[offthehandle]

@Arca There is no investigation. This is the auction business. Disguise it with another name. Today it's a shill, tommorrow its insider trading, next it will be white washed with the modern day "acceptable" term the public actually does nothing about called "lobbying", it is a nice term dreamed up for legalized bribery. Influence peddling, influencing, market making it is whatever it is how business has been always conducted by a club, "the good ole boys network". I have never been in the club. Lol. This is never getting fixed. Don't believe anything. Just don't bid anything but lowball prices at wholesale. Either you get it or not.