Bidding on your own names at NameJet...?

[webquest]

Once in awhile I see people bidding on their own domains at NJ. I would think it would be frowned upon.

Today's seems more obvious than normal. Or am I missing something here?

Airlinejobs.com owned by Andy Booth at Booth.com and high bidder is BQDNcom (James Booth).

3 bids down we see Boothcom as a bidder.

Same thing with MovieZone.com. Owned by Andy Booth in which he currently appears to be the high bidder.

High Bid: $2,475 USD by boothcom

They actually won their own domain airplanesforsale.com. Im guessing it didnt get as high as they wanted so needed to protect it.

Bidder Amount Date
bqdncom $2,001 7/17/2017 12:23 PM
boothcom $1,950 7/17/2017 12:23 PM

 

[richface]

If WHOIS is accurate for those names, both Andy Booth and Jame Booth should be permanently banned from the NameJet platform. These sellers/brothers are openly driving up the prices for their own and each others domains with their phony bids.

People have been charged and convicted of fraud for eBay shill bidding. Doesn't NameJet have any methods for detecting this kind of collusion?

@webquest - Have you notified NameJet about this?

Unfortunately I found two more featured auction pages that appear to be Oliver:

http://www.namejet.com/featuredauctions/2cpd2hzh
http://www.namejet.com/featuredauctions/7syi4nah

So now here are the totals from the two accounts I'm pretty sure are him:

6ifd5lvs - Seek bid on 18, winner8888 bid on 318.
8fyd9zfl - Seek bid on 17, winner8888 bid on 286.
9rev0pcj - Seek bid on 46, winner8888 bid on 217.
2cpd2hzh - Seek bid on 25, winner8888 bid on 261.
7syi4nah - Seek bid on 42, winner8888 bid on 54.

That's a total of 1,284 auctions that are suspect.

A few hours ago I got an interesting email from someone who wishes to remain anonymous saying that "hkdn" is suspected to be Oliver as well. I can't find any direct link because the WHOIS is always the same (and fake) when this account wins, at least after spot checking a bunch. But then I noticed something interesting:

6ifd5lvs - HKDN bid on 935, won 84, and was the runner up in 432.
8fyd9zfl - HKDN bid on 1035, won 75, and was the runner up in 403.
9rev0pcj - HKDN bid on 1271, won 64, and was the runner up in 625.
2cpd2hzh - HKDN bid on 841, won 56, and was the runner up in 409.
7syi4nah - HKDN bid on 1115, won 100, and was the runner up in 464.

That in and of itself is not interesting other than the huge volume, 5197 auctions bid on, but where it gets interesting is that 72% of the public auctions this account has ever participated in were Oliver's. Highly suspicious, but circumstantial.

And there were several examples of domains that were auctioned by Oliver, won by HKDN, WHOIS changed to the fake one, and then changed back to Oliver a couple of months later. Again I'm out of WHOIS history queries so I can't independently confirm this, but the source seems solid. Plenty of potential explanations for that so still nothing definitive as far as this alias is concerned, but NJ should still look into it.

If that alias is also Oliver, this already-serious problem just got 5x worse. And this account is by far the most aggressive at pushing bidders up.

I have Won a few auctions with HKDN as Second bidder!! I already complained and namejet assured me this user was legit gotto find a way to withdraw my balance this is way too fishy. Refunds should be demanded if all is proven!!

 

[Donny]

I'm sure it's not to hard to check the API IP logs and IP Logs for when they login. I would bet that all of this is automated.

Donny

 

[offthehandle]

All of you who have historically bid and won names in the past should do an accounting, add it all up and get together and bring it to a lawyer who will be able to settle it out of court, and out of the media and all parties win. If the amount isn't in the $100,000.+ range don't waste your time.

Moving forward from today, don't bid more than wholesale value to what you feel you need to resell to make a profit. If it isn't worth it don't pursue it. And you can't get bargains, then stop bidding up the names and force a market correction.

 

[zurc.net]

The silence from all parties involved has become deafening.

I hope NameJet is doing a thorough investigation into all the parties and allegations.
Their reputation is on the line.

NameJet also has plenty of their own questions that need to be answered as well.

Brad

I think considering the circumstances at this point, their company should be investigated by a third party firm. This is getting way too big to just let them police themselves.

Not throwing accusations, but if this turns out to be another 'inside job' deal.... this could be catastrophic for our industry, but it needs to happen.

 

[karmaco]

Just let HDKN win them all. This is unreal. He is always the 2nd or 3rd highest.

 

[zurc.net]

All of you who have historically bid and won names in the past should do an accounting, add it all up and get together and bring it to a lawyer who will be able to settle it out of court, and out of the media and all parties win. If the amount isn't in the $100,000.+ range don't waste your time.

Moving forward from today, don't bid more than wholesale value to what you feel you need to resell to make a profit. If it isn't worth it don't pursue it. And you can't get bargains, then stop bidding up the names and force a market correction.

This got me thinking about the llll.com market that exploded out of no where, a couple of times over the years... hrmmmm

 

[Arca]

I have Won a few auctions with HKDN as Second bidder!! I already complained and namejet assured me this user was legit gotto find a way to withdraw my balance this way too fishy.

I don't think there is a single NJ buyer that is somewhat active that has not been bid up and paid more than they should as a result of HKDN's bidding activity. This bidder handle is extremely active, and has affected the sales price of hundreds of auctions, if not more. That adds up to a lot of $$$!

edit: and if your bidding handle at NJ is the same as your NP username, I've seen you get bid up by this guy a few times recently on names I was following as well...

 

[-EM-]

I'm sure it's not to hard to check the API IP logs and IP Logs for when they login. I would bet that all of this is automated.

Donny

I'm sure you have heard about proxies

 

[Beezy]

Can anyone point me to a domain where I can get a whois with the booth brothers' current address(es)? Just checking jurisdictions etc.

EDIT: (PM is fine)

 

[Recons.Com]

If you have won an auction where HKDN/Booth/seek/winner8888 have been present, go to BBB.org link and file a complaint and ask for a refund.

NJ would either have to refund or would suffer a hit to its "A+" rating and that would get Web.com's attention to NJ's management's activities and also would be a warning sign to unsuspecting investors.

https://www.bbb.org/western-washing...g/namejet-llc-in-kirkland-wa-22427364#bbblogo

 

[Jimmy Hoffa]

Unfortunately

Holy macaroni, Michael. This is a freaking huge spaghetti! Thank you for your thorough investigation!

Don't worry, guys. This is their end. All the criminals are caught sooner or later. Because they either get cocky and keep applying the same con pattern andrewing attention or they start making mistakes due to loss of focus. Greed is their alfa, but also their omega.

 

[OralB]

The shill bidding practice seems more widespread than initially thought.
Have a look at the auction for POLP.com closing tomorrow, again russel sitting at $200 and hkdn at $501.
The interesting thing about the domain is that its owned by an individual in Belgium per the whois data and apparently not associated with the Booth brothers nor Oliver.
Can it be that russel and hkdn are bots created by NameJet to bid up the auctions just under the actual reserve waiting for someone to bite the bait.

 

[richface]

I so got baited on this $10 dollars from the reserve i didn't even mean to win it haha

 

[Silentptnr]

I so got baited on this $10 dollars from the reserve i didn't even mean to win it haha

Show attachment 64610

That's crazy.

 

[offthehandle]

This is a wholesale market made by market makers, so much of what I read is interesting of how insider driven it is. You have only a few people bidding at the high prices among themselves, all working together being supported by a platform.

There really is not an "intrinsic" value of a domain.

Its wide open to whatever an end user will pay versus perceived value that is being hyped and touted with those who have more money to speculate in this. This is why people who think in numbers like Warren Buffet and the "smart" investors are not into this speculative penny stock like market of domains. This market is highly risky, hard to price and illiquid. But that is why people speculate. So most "professional" investors are not buying domain names. Know who the insider players are, and this thread helps document some of them.

 

[Bram C.]

The shill bidding practice seems more widespread than initially thought.
Have a look at the auction for POLP.com closing tomorrow, again russel sitting at $200 and hkdn at $501.
The interesting thing about the domain is that its owned by an individual in Belgium per the whois data and apparently not associated with the Booth brothers nor Oliver.
Can it be that russel and hkdn are bots created by NameJet to bid up the auctions just under the actual reserve waiting for someone to bite the bait.

Polp.com is owned by me (purchased it from someone from NP not so long ago) so I put it on NJ.
I don't know the Booth brothers nor Oliver. I have no connection to them. If russell and hkdn are bots I have no idea how they would know my reserve on my domain? Btw , the highest bid of HKDN on my auction was $501 and that wasn't even close to my actual reserve (which was over $1K).

 

[Chris Hydrick]

I hope at this point @NameJetGM realizes their lackadaisical response to their initial findings has fueled all this rage. Even though they say they don't condone shill bidding, their actions show otherwise. Thus if management won't help, the legal system will.

Basically, a we can do this the easy way or the hard way dilemma. The conspiracy theorist in me thinks the Booth brothers have extensive knowledge of other NameJet shill bidding, and if banned, NameJet will face retaliation from the brothers. --- otherwise I'm dumbfounded as to why NameJet has failed to take control of this situation.

P.S. ShillJet.com is available for hand reg. I suspect this will be a term used in the future to describe NJ if their management continues to condone this type of behavior through their actions (or inaction in their case)

 

[Silentptnr]

Can anyone point me to a domain where I can get a whois with the booth brothers' current address(es)? Just checking jurisdictions etc.

EDIT: (PM is fine)

Try Timlie.com whois

 

[GeorgeK]

I'm not a lawyer, but isn't shill bidding a form of wire fraud?

https://partners.nytimes.com/library/tech/00/06/biztech/articles/07ebay-fraud.html

Participation in a shill-bidding ring would run afoul of federal statutes prohibiting mail fraud and wire fraud; each count could carry a maximum penalty of up to five years in prison and $1 million in fines.

Has the FBI been contacted? The funny thing is, even if the alleged shill bidders are outside the USA, their top dot-com domain names are easily seized at the registry level by the USA, if there was a crime, to compensate victims, etc. The FBI might even hold a domain name auction!

 

[NameFury]

The estibot valuation on auction pages, I believe also encourages intending buyers to continue bidding

 

[jaybuk]

Take a look at MVXW.com. Sold at NameJet November 2016 to user "HKDN" with a high bid of $315. I'm not sure of the seller, maybe @NameJetGM can tell us.

The name stayed under privacy protection until 1-14-17 when "MARQUE SOLUTIONS" with email address "[email protected]" appeared in the WhoIs.

On 3-16-17 the WhoIs changed to "Oliver Hoger".

Coincidence???

 

[GeorgeK]

By the way, there is a law suit involving one of the Booth brothers that the blogs haven't covered yet, regarding the HH.com domain name, see:

http://norcalrecord.com/stories/511...judgment-regarding-sale-of-hh-com-domain-name

 

[Want2learn]

class action lawsuit! Ive been affected as well

 

[zurc.net]

By the way, there is a law suit involving one of the Booth brothers that the blogs haven't covered yet, regarding the HH.com domain name, see:

http://norcalrecord.com/stories/511...judgment-regarding-sale-of-hh-com-domain-name

So they add frivolous law suits to their resume, classy.

 

[xn--v4h.com]

See PABF.com , an auction again by Oliver.
Russel at $200, HKDN at $501...waiting for you to take the bait. Hurry !

Disgusting. Even today!