domains Doron Vermaat is a stand up guy – BrandBucket Name Sells while in Auction at Namepros

[equity78]

Doron Vermaat is a stand up guy – BrandBucket Name Sells while in Auction at Namepros
A hypothetical scenario that I wrote about last week on Namepros has become a real scenario for one high profile domainer. Namepros has become the wholesale platform for BrandBucket published and approved names. The one caveat, the name is live on BrandBucket. The worst scenario you want to have happen is for your auction to be at $31 and 80 hours left to go, and you get an email congratulations … [Read more...]

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Update:

• Here's how it works on NamePros

 

[JimJammy]

Doron has definitely done something wrong because he cannot now sell the domain he has sold at BB, and all Auctions on NP's must be exclusive to NP's. Else why are we having this bru ha ha now. I don't think anybody, including Doron, can claim there is nothing wrong with the auction he has originally setup.

Not wanting to argue, just an attempt to be the one in the middle to point out you are both basically seeing the same thing!

Yes, Doron now cannot sell the domain he has sold at BB, and yes officially he does have an agreement with NP to sell that name. He has been the unlucky one that got caught out. There has been 100s of live BB names sold here, but Doron was the unlucky one that found himself selling a domain on BB that was in a live auction at NP.

That doesn't make anyone else selling their BB listed names acceptable, it just means they weren't caught out. It could have been any other seller of BB names. Doron has done the best he possibly can given the circumstances and shouldn't be punished because HE was the one caught out.

 

[Recons.Com]

The reason is simple. All auctions on NP's must be exclusive to NP's. Which completely disallows listed BB names to be auctioned on NP's, because it is not an exclusive listing.

I do understand your position. You want the rules of NP clearly reflect any possible scenario. But there is such thing as a precedent and an interpretation of the rules. In this case, NP has interpreted its rule that delivering proceeds of the BB sale to buyer is equivalent to delivering the name. So that is how we all should interpret it going forward as there have been a precedent with resolution.

 

[Name Trader]

If you are right (I don't believe you are), then NP should ban all BB auctions (which would be bad, but you want to be formal about, right?) as by definition any BB listed name has exclusivity for 30 days at least with BB. You cannot demand exclusivity for something which is under exclusivity with another party. So this becomes NP policy issue, if you are right, and you should take it with them and not attack Doron.

I an not attacking Doron at all. I'm clearly talking about policy here. Actively listed BB domains should not be allowed to be listed, under current NP's rules. It remains to be seen what the rules are, after this bru ha ha blown over.

 

[Recons.Com]

Not wanting to argue, just an attempt to be the one in the middle to point out you are both basically seeing the same thing!

Yes, Doron now cannot sell the domain he has sold at BB, and yes officially he does have an agreement with NP to sell that name. He has been the unlucky one that got caught out. There has been 100s of live BB names sold here, but Doron was the unlucky one that found himself selling a domain on BB that was in a live auction at NP.

That doesn't make anyone else selling their BB listed names acceptable, it just means they weren't caught out. It could have been any other seller of BB names. Doron has done the best he possibly can given the circumstances and shouldn't be punished because HE was the one caught out.

I respectfully disagree. This has nothing to do with being "caught out" as that assumes doing something wrong. No one from NP has said that BB active names cannot be sold and they have effectively said that delivering the proceeds would be equivalent to delivering the name.

 

[Name Trader]

Not wanting to argue, just an attempt to be the one in the middle to point out you are both basically seeing the same thing!

Yes, Doron now cannot sell the domain he has sold at BB, and yes officially he does have an agreement with NP to sell that name. He has been the unlucky one that got caught out. There has been 100s of live BB names sold here, but Doron was the unlucky one that found himself selling a domain on BB that was in a live auction at NP.

That doesn't make anyone else selling their BB listed names acceptable, it just means they weren't caught out. It could have been any other seller of BB names. Doron has done the best he possibly can given the circumstances and shouldn't be punished because HE was the one caught out.

I commend Doron on his efforts to rectify an un-rectifiable problem. Don't get me wrong. He has been the one that got caught out. But that doesn't make him completely innocent either. He knew that what happened could happen.

 

[Name Trader]

I respectfully disagree. This has nothing to do with being "caught out" as that assumes doing something wrong. No one from NP has said that BB active names cannot be sold and they have effectively said that delivering the proceeds would be equivalent to delivering the name.

Eric has ALWAYS stated that domains auctioned at NP's must be exclusive to NP's. As far as can tell, he is STILL stating that.

 

[equity78]

Ray it's 30 days AFTER you request removal not just 30 days from listing:

No. By submitting and accepting your name for listing at BrandBucket you are agreeing to have BrandBucket as the exclusive seller for the duration that a domain name is listed, and listing the domain for sale elsewhere is prohibited.

At any time you may request to have your domains removed from BrandBucket, and they will continue to be listed for 30 days from the time of your notification.

So you can't sell published domains without that attached - but I don't know that you can attach the T&C from another site. And I don't care what anyone says - selling a portfolio is selling the names. Brandbucket, by allowing this, are showing themselves as having ZERO accountability. If nothing else it destroys the claim of ownership checking that BB stands behind.



I agree - I actually thought I'd not be liked for my opinion as it's harsh. I don't think it speaks to his character at all.. .I've seen FAR worse! Given the unusual nature of the transaction and the documentation here it need not be anything too bad. It's not a scam, it's not deliberate attempt to mislead, it's the unfortunate fall out of doing something that is generally allowed that shouldn't be! A first time warning is fine but then I think he's already got that Negative trader rating if anyone wants to give it can be done.. beyond that? I don't think it's worth it - I think we all agree D. is trying to make the fairest best of a mess

I think it's more important that NP cut out these auctions. This is exactly the scenario that BrandRoot was talking about during his meltdown.



He violated the actual terms of BrandBucket if not the locally established terms of BrandBucket.

Oh that's what I meant the 30 day timer up, I know it's from removal. Let the 30 days expire and then list.

 

[Justin Matmor]

When NP buyers buy BB published names they buy on the assumption the domain will continue to be listed for at least another 30 days on BB. In the meantime if it sells the registrant is obligated to transfer the domain.

Doron has done nothing illegal. He is basically giving the auction winner the revenue (less fees) of the sold domain.

 

[equity78]

Ray it's 30 days AFTER you request removal not just 30 days from listing:

No. By submitting and accepting your name for listing at BrandBucket you are agreeing to have BrandBucket as the exclusive seller for the duration that a domain name is listed, and listing the domain for sale elsewhere is prohibited.

At any time you may request to have your domains removed from BrandBucket, and they will continue to be listed for 30 days from the time of your notification.

So you can't sell published domains without that attached - but I don't know that you can attach the T&C from another site. And I don't care what anyone says - selling a portfolio is selling the names. Brandbucket, by allowing this, are showing themselves as having ZERO accountability. If nothing else it destroys the claim of ownership checking that BB stands behind.



I agree - I actually thought I'd not be liked for my opinion as it's harsh. I don't think it speaks to his character at all.. .I've seen FAR worse! Given the unusual nature of the transaction and the documentation here it need not be anything too bad. It's not a scam, it's not deliberate attempt to mislead, it's the unfortunate fall out of doing something that is generally allowed that shouldn't be! A first time warning is fine but then I think he's already got that Negative trader rating if anyone wants to give it can be done.. beyond that? I don't think it's worth it - I think we all agree D. is trying to make the fairest best of a mess

I think it's more important that NP cut out these auctions. This is exactly the scenario that BrandRoot was talking about during his meltdown.



He violated the actual terms of BrandBucket if not the locally established terms of BrandBucket.

Well it seems to me they have waived those actual terms DU, because they were made aware and I had Michael publicly state these auctions are permitted by BrandBucket.

 

[loredan]

IMO the new NP rules should state that BB names that are published cannot participate in an auction. Only BB approved (unlisted/unpublished) names can participate in auctions. BB published names can participate in BIN and Make an Offer.

I think @Justin Matmor has a great point here (and probably the right solution for this type of BB, BR, NR, etc... names). This can easily extend to Flippa, GD, Afternic, Sedo, etc... if you want to auction a name on NP, just make sure it has been removed from all other marketplaces the moment it gets the first bid.

Doron got caught in the middle here, obviously not his fault but rather NP auction system's fault... that's why I think Justin's idea might be the right and natural way to go in order to avoid future similar situations.

Just my 2c

 

[equity78]

Well I guess the question to pose is what should happen for current auctions running ? Full disclosure I have one running, the auction is a winner's choice so I would hope that the winner did not pick the one that got sold. If they did I would tell them that they get the sale proceeds.

I think in the future there will be two kind of BrandBucket auctions

1) Accepted not listed
2) $10 listing fee paid but the name currently is not obligated to be listed, removal date is 31 days plus.

 

[slimjim270]

BrandBucket doesn't provide a Community Forum... and NamePros filled the void.

BrandBucket doesn't provide a (commission free) Seller Exchange Platform for inventory horse trading... and NamePros filled the void.

These are services that many in the selling community are looking for.

Ultimately, this is an opportunity for BrandBucket (or any brandable marketplace for that matter) to provide value-add services for their selling community.

The "Doron Dynamic" was bound to happen eventually. He simply drew the winning ticket as the 1st exposed to a BB sale during a NP auction. At least it was with a person who was willing to openly discuss the situation and share in a dialogue with the NP community his approach for resolution. Thank you for doing so.

Liquidity of inventory allows other sellers to grow their BB portfolios via acquisition. A positive, though sellers entering "double exclusivity" carries risk as this thread demonstrates.

-Jim

 

[ksusha64]

Great job!!

 

[DU]

Do we want BB/NP to disallow trading active names and create a black market for those?

WTF? A black market for trading names?

Trading Active Names 101
You own a domain name that you want to sell or trade or otherwise transact with.

What you can do:

• Sell it at Namepros
• Sell it at Sedo
• Sell it at Afternic
• Sell it door-to-door
• Bundle it with SEO services
• Give it away in exchange for sexual favors
• Trade it for another name
• Barter for Bacon

What you can't do:

• Split the name in half and sell it to two separate people
  
• Sell it twice

If you have a portfolio of names that are published on BB or with BIN on Sedo you un-publish or remove the BIN and then trade the active names totally free and clear. It's not hard. It solves the issue and no black market needed.

So the answer is: Yes

BB is negligent in not enforcing their terms. Sellers are negligent in their actions.

 

[JimJammy]

Give it away in exchange for sexual favors

Can I have the link for this platform please?

 

[DU]

Well it seems to me they have waived those actual terms DU, because they were made aware and I had Michael publicly state these auctions are permitted by BrandBucket.

I've never seen an episode of Law and Order where the court accepted someone waiving terms and conditions in a manner other than actually removing terms and conditions.

 

[equity78]

I've never seen an episode of Law and Order where the court accepted someone waiving terms and conditions in a manner other than actually removing terms and conditions.

Well that's something for BrandBucket to address, so @margotb @michaeljkrell feel free to jump in give your two cents on all this.

 

[johname]

The auction should state very clearly that the winning bidder must pay the final hammer price.

There might be some bidding thinking they only have to pay final bid minus domain sale.

 

[hookbox]

Well that's something for BrandBucket to address, so @margotb @michaeljkrell feel free to jump in give your two cents on all this.

LOL, do they ever give their 2 cents? They are too busy trying to hit their daily average of 95 ($950) per day live listings.

 

[hookbox]

No, I don't think it was devious. I think it was open and honest. What else was he supposed to do? He can't transfer it to the person that wins the auction but he must honor both his BB and NP contract.

It certainly doesn't deserve comments like...



In my opinion he went above and beyond in a situation that hasn't been encountered before. He is honoring his BB agreement and his NP auction agreement (to the best of his ability). AND he has replaced the NP auction domain for sale with another (he probably didn't have to do that).

"Highly professional is total bullsh*t" That's your opinion. In my opinion he is a stand up guy.

I never said he wasn't highly professional. I believe he is very professional, has high integrity and is a stand up guy. When I said "highly professional is total bullshit" I was referring to all the people in this thread that were saying how highly professional it was to do what he did, but like I said, and it's only my opinion, he did what he did because he absolutely had no choice. If he was not in the public eye and did not have a business that targeted you and I then chances are this decision would probably be totally different. Obviously this is just my opinion but we can disagree.

By the way, your welcome for Koxil. When people like myself list unregistered names for others to register they normally say thank you. At least I do.

 

[Recons.Com]

I've never seen an episode of Law and Order where the court accepted someone waiving terms and conditions in a manner other than actually removing terms and conditions.

I don't know why they still have Law Schools. Just have anyone watch Law and Order.

 

[Ted Levy]

What a farce. He offered 68 names. One got sold on BB before the auction ended. He replaced it with another one of equal listing value. End of issue.

Eric basically condoned the whole thing. Including the sales proceeds in the auction was nothing but a charade since obviously the winning bidder will raise his bid accordingly.

It is BB's TOS that were violated (formally), yet as many posters observe, they've been allowing the sale of listed BB names since forever.

If it happens again, so what? The same put-and-take wink-wink-nod-nod will serve as a solution to make NP happy.

If I'm the winner bidder, of course I say to Doron "let's make it easy and I just pay you the bid price less the $2K and we go on our respective merry ways."

Much ado about nothing.

 

[JimJammy]

I never said he wasn't highly professional. I believe he is very professional, has high integrity and is a stand up guy. When I said "highly professional is total bullsh*t" I was referring to all the people in this thread that were saying how highly professional it was to do what he did

Hmmmm...

All this "highly professional Doron" is total bullsh*t. Give me a break.

Do you think it's devious to make sure everyone in the auction knew that the name sold just to be sure that he would be guaranteed to get his money back? Plus have it publicly announced on Ray's blog to possibly get even more bids for his auction? I'm not saying it's devious but it's extremely smart.

He owns Efty which targets domainers so if he backs out of the deal he will look like a fool and lose his business and Michael Cyger won't be to happy about that.

This really doesn't sound like you saying he is very professional, has high integrity and is a stand up guy, but whatever...

Agree with @Ted Levy much ado about nothing. Doron has done the best thing he could under the circumstances, BB is OK with it, NP is OK with it. End of.

 

[Abdullah Abdullah]

The auction should state very clearly that the winning bidder must pay the final hammer price.

There might be some bidding thinking they only have to pay final bid minus domain sale.

I agree for accounting purposes but I believe there is nothing wrong if for example the auction ends at $6k and the the proceeds from the sold domain is at $2k so the seller can say well, send me $4,K

 

[johname]

I agree for accounting purposes but I believe there is nothing wrong if for example the auction ends at $6k and the the proceeds from the sold domain is at $2k so the seller can say well, send me $4,K

Its my reading of the auction that the seller going to expect to be paid the hammer price. So I think it should be clearer to avoid getting bids from people that later say "I thought it was for the net price"

But yes if the seller wants to slice the amount off before payment then thats fine. (might get more bids)