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interviews Never Split The Difference: An Interview with FBI Negotiator Chris Voss

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Life is a series of negotiations: whether you’re buying a car, asking for a raise at work or selling a domain name. So I picked up the book Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It figuring I could learn something.

The book outlined some eye opening negotiation principles from the co-author, Chris Voss, based on his career as an FBI hostage negotiator and award-winning teacher at prestigious business schools. Currently Chris is CEO of the Black Swan Group in Los Angeles.

Since reading the book I’ve applied some of Chris’ principles in various aspects of my personal life as well as in my domaining business. I’ve been amazed at how well they work.

After writing about the book in my blog post at DNgeek, I decided to ask for an interview. Chris was generous enough to give his time exclusively for NamePros readers. I tried to draw out information that applied to the unique circumstances of domain sales. Many of his responses surprised me.

Here’s what Chris had to say to my questions:

In your book you say that everything we’ve previously been taught about negotiation is wrong. That we are not rational negotiators and that compromise is the worst thing we can do. You say the real art of negotiation lies in mastering the intricacies of No, not Yes. That’s pretty revolutionary. To begin with, let me ask you why emotional intelligence is a better approach than the usual methods involving logic and reason?
Logic is like beauty. It’s entirely in the eye of the beholder. Logic and reason are the things that we construct after we’ve already made up our mind based on our gut instincts. If we make decisions based on what we care about then by definition decision making is an emotional process. Care is not the synonym for reason. Care is the synonym for emotion.

And one of the things we deeply care about in a negotiation is money, right?
Yes. My son [and business partner] often likes to say that price is one of the most emotional terms in the negotiation.

What kind of information do we want to acquire during the negotiation process?
You’re going to want to find out what their terms are. But what’s even more important is: what are the emotional definitions behind those terms? What does each term mean to them? You can use emotional meanings to sculpt the terms. You want to give them what is most emotionally valuable for them. Maybe you give them the same amount of money but you can change the emotional definitions of the deal through negotiation.

How do we obtain information about the client’s wants or needs when we’re communicating via email?
Here’s the first problem. Negotiating via email is like playing chess via email. Are you going to put your next seven chess moves in one email? Well, probably not.

But that’s the way most people want to negotiate in an email. They want to lay out their whole game plan and their chain of logic. What happens in that static communication is the reader gets a chance to look at where the email starts and where the email ends and they get to sit there and stare at it. Then if they don’t like where it ends they just move back, four or five moves, and take off in a different direction. So my first recommendation is to make one move at a time in an email.

So your advice is to slow the process down and move one step at a time?
Yes. A phrase that I’ve borrowed from a Federal judge is: “delaying to save time.”

So instead of laying out the “seven chess moves” in one email what would you say to the client?
I would send an email that says: What is the immortality here? What are you trying to accomplish? What would owning this domain name do for you? That would be a great email, those three questions. They are all driving at exactly the same point.

How can we get information about the customer’s wants and needs when we’re dealing with a broker?
Repetition of key questions is really important even though people hate to repeat their questions because their fear is that it will make them look stupid. But the important thing about the repetition of key questions is that if you ask a broker the same question enough times they’ll eventually go back to the person they are representing and say: “I’m being asked this question and I just want to make sure the answer I’ve been giving is good.”

You can’t tell the broker: “repeat this question word for word to your principle.” But if you make them answer it enough times then they’ll start to get worried about their answer. And as soon as they’re afraid that their answer may not be right they’ll go back to their client and check it. That’s how you get your question repeated to the client.

Why is straightforward and honest the best approach in a negotiation?
Lying always catches up with you. You can only lie for so long. It’s like taking cocaine. It keeps you awake and gives you energy, right? So why not take cocaine all the time? Well because it’s going to catch up with you and then you’re going to be dead.

Then how do we respond truthfully when someone asks “what’s the lowest amount you would accept?”
That’s an intentionally manipulative question. My response might be: “how am I supposed to answer that?” Or I might say: “are you making me an offer or just fishing for a price?”

How do we respond when someone says “I think my offer is fair”?
Nobody ever uses the term fair to justify their position if they have objective market criteria to back it up. For example, Donald Trump uses that all the time. He says “your criticisms of me are unfair.” Because he doesn’t have anything else to back it up. He just doesn’t like it. So fair is an arbitrary term just like beauty and value.

Do you think President-elect Trump uses emotional intelligence to his advantage?
I think he uses some aspects of it to his advantage. I think he’s a poster child for the aggressive negotiator with all its strengths and weaknesses.

We talk about the three different types of negotiators in my book, Never Split The Difference. In order to be the consummate negotiator you need to use aspects of all three negotiator types: The Assertive, The Accommodator and The Analyst.

You can go an awfully long way with just one of those types if you keep getting better and better at it. You just don’t get as far as you could have gotten using all three. For example, Donald Trump’s businesses are far flung either because he has ADHD when it comes to geography or he uses up his ability to make deals in any given location and he has to move on. I think if you look at his history it’s because he uses up his ability to make deals in any given location due to his assertive negotiation style.
 
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wowww. what a coincidence, I watched his video 2 days ago randomly haha
 
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Interesting i dropped a link to the book in the chat the other day. Best book and good job getting that interview.
 
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This is my favorite post of the year. Looking forward to reading the book
 
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"So my first recommendation is to make one move at a time in an email."

This is something i can build from

Great job Keith. Losing my mind over this.
 
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Thanks a stack for doing this exclusive interview for us NPers @Keith DeBoer much appreciated....
 
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Eye-opening!
Thanks, and good work!
 
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Thanks Keith, for bring it to us.
 
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Get this question every week... as do many.
Then how do we respond truthfully when someone asks “what’s the lowest amount you would accept?”
That’s an intentionally manipulative question. My response might be: “how am I supposed to answer that?” Or I might say: “are you making me an offer or just fishing for a price?”

As for splitting the difference in the domain biz many times it helps to get deals done. I don't know what his response to that was?
 
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Get this question every week... as do many.

Then how do we respond truthfully when someone asks “what’s the lowest amount you would accept?”

That’s an intentionally manipulative question. My response might be: “how am I supposed to answer that?” Or I might say: “are you making me an offer or just fishing for a price?”


As for splitting the difference in the domain biz many times it helps to get deals done. I don't know what his response to that was?
Ok, I see what you are saying, the scaled down step, then at the end splitting the difference which does work for sure.
 
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Ok, I see what you are saying, the scaled down step, then at the end splitting the difference which does work for sure.
I wrote a bit about that in my blog at DN Geek. You can see it here.
 
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I wouldnt reccomend asking a buyer these questions. Sounds very interogating.

Nice article!

"I would send an email that says: What is the immortality here? What are you trying to accomplish? What would owning this domain name do for you? That would be a great email, those three questions. They are all driving at exactly the same point."
 
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Nice article @Keith DeBoer .

As for the author; these are similar strategies called "needs assessment" that I have seen packaged differently over time. I like his spin on things, but he is reinventing the wheel for profit (smart).

The title, "never split the difference" is a bit misleading.

I would consider it a win if If I use a litany of strategies and now have a buyer that is willing to pay a huge sum and then I split the difference to close at my target sales point.

Good negotiations are a slow patient process, which is completely counter intuitive to the 'get rich quick' story that most domainers are fed. This is why good negotiations and domaining don't go hand-in-hand often.
 
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Good read...but...

One size does not fit all. Some have it...some don't. I get the picture, but I can tell you first hand that every interaction is similar yet different. In my part of the world we call this a "closer". The best closers have a tremendous ability to read others and capitalize. (even through email)
:)
 
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Hey everyone! Thanks for the great comments! I'm glad people are finding the interview interesting, compelling and thought provoking. Even if you disagree with Chris' strategies.

Regarding the book title: Never Split The Difference. Agree or not, Chris Voss feels that this is a lazy, predictable style of negotiating that favors that leaves money on the table. You can read more about it in his book. I generally don't like non-fiction but Voss' book is an easy read as he wraps each lesson in real life experiences from International hostage negotiations.

Either way I'm deeply appreciative of the support from the NP community!

Happy Holidays To Everyone!!
 
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Great interview Keith.
A quick mention which is important to note:
>>> In another interview, he clearly does mention that even though he doesn't believe in leaving money on the table for the most part by doing a "fair" or "win/win" types of deals, he clearly does mention that if you are a very tough negotiator and milk the deal every time, people will no longer want to deal with you as they think they will always be on the losing end and be ridiculed by others. He gives examples of CEOs which found themselves in those type of situations
 
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Great interview Keith.
A quick mention which is important to note:
>>> In another interview, he clearly does mention that even though he doesn't believe in leaving money on the table for the most part by doing a "fair" or "win/win" types of deals, he clearly does mention that if you are a very tough negotiator and milk the deal every time, people will no longer want to deal with you as they think they will always be on the losing end and be ridiculed by others. He gives examples of CEOs which found themselves in those type of situations

Yes, that is exactly the point he was making about Donald Trump. He has burned his bridges by bargaining too aggressively.

The beauty of Voss' approach is that there are often other ways to make the other party feel happy and satisfied while simultaneously getting the best possible terms for the deal. Too often we assume we know what the other party wants so we don't ask. Instead we focus solely on price. Voss says there are many terms at play and our traditional approach is one dimensional.

In his book he gives examples of deals he and his students have negotiated when buying a shirt, asking for a raise, a reduction on rent or buying out a small business partner. In every case they got they terms they wanted by moving the discussion away from the price and focusing instead on the emotional needs of the other party in a non-threatening way.

For example, I'm sure there have been times in your life when you sold something for much less than you know you could have gotten for it. Simply because you felt like you were helping someone or doing the right thing etc. You didn't feel bullied or ripped off. You felt good about the deal. That is the kind of emotional negotiation that Voss advocates. It's an approach we resist because its non-traditional and illogical but in my experience (and others) it really yields profound results.
 
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