you ever rip yourself off ?

skinns · 12-15-2004, 12:49 PM

Howdy designers.

You ever done a site for a company that has just started up for a really low budget and as the project continues, so does the content, the number of pages, and the customers web knowledge grow but the price stays the same.

Well here is a site that is going that way. Cenergi "the colour salon"

comments / suggestions - welcome

Skinns

redhippo · 12-15-2004, 02:28 PM

never done that...it seems to suck...but then.....

tony84 · 12-15-2004, 06:21 PM

why not say this is turning into a much bigger job than they initially said so it will cost a little extra for you to carry on with the site

Nunim · 12-15-2004, 06:39 PM

Yeah I do it all the time, I offer to install a mod but ususually a person who tried to install one before me isn't the smartest so I end up reinstalling almost every thing.

Rowan W · 12-15-2004, 09:06 PM

I'm in the same situation myself actually, it's my first job and it seems that my client will never be satisfied, they keep asking me to change things and add more things, AND IT"S ONLY A FLASH INTRO!

For my next job I'm going to make up an agreement saying that the client can only provide feedback at 3 sperate times during the work period and then they have to take what I've done, unless they pay extra.

It's all part of the learning experience I guess

Nice site by the way, very professional.

As for your situation, if they continue to ask you to do more work on the site you should let them know that you never intended to charge them for that amount of work, and they should be grateful you're only charging what you are. Then tell them that you're not going to do much more unless they're willing to pay you extra.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/web-design-reviews/60004-you-ever-rip-yourself-off.html

But I don't know exactly what your situation is so maybe that wouldn't work.

dgridley · 12-15-2004, 10:03 PM

My brother used to send me design work .. I did several small sites for his business friends.. each running around $650-850 for a couple days work. THEN, I'd start getting asked to change this graphic, update this page, etc. all for free months later.. no way was I gonna do that..

Jed K · 12-16-2004, 02:31 AM

This doesn't really answer your question, but...
... I just wanted to say that that site you posted looks very nice.

Good work.

armstrong · 12-16-2004, 04:10 AM

Nice site.

"Feature creep" is what's happening to you, and yes, this is a frequent problem in software development projects. That's why its important to have a contract (signed if possible, documented via email if not) listing all the things you will do for them. If the client insists on some extra features outside the contract, make a note of the request and suggest that these can go on "version 2" of the project. Needless to say, v2 also comes with "payment 2".

dgridley · 12-16-2004, 08:20 AM

Good advice...

Originally Posted by armstrong

Nice site.

"Feature creep" is what's happening to you, and yes, this is a frequent problem in software development projects. That's why its important to have a contract (signed if possible, documented via email if not) listing all the things you will do for them. If the client insists on some extra features outside the contract, make a note of the request and suggest that these can go on "version 2" of the project. Needless to say, v2 also comes with "payment 2".

skinns · 12-16-2004, 09:13 AM

Thanks for the feedback and your other experiences. I had these problems early on my web development experience a couple of years back. I have since changed my conditions to an hourly rate, (which is fantastic), but this one particular client slipped by for many reasons. One is that the owner of the salon has been a friend of mine for 10 years plus. The second is that fiance is the receptionist there. So I kind of bite my tongue on this one.

skinns

will7 · 12-16-2004, 09:50 AM

Yes! I know completely what you're saying! Recently, I did a major rip off site. I charged £200 for a site, that I knew was going to be a lot of pages, but didn't know it was going to ve in excess of 150 pages (which it is now). It's nearly done though, so that's a plus.

The thing is, it's for a teacher (made for a teacher at my school), and apparently he's leaving soon, he said he might go to a university or college, and he'll definitely send some business my way - which is a good thing.

Yes, I am annoyed for doing it so cheap, but I'm an optimist, and I look at it as a learning experience, I might get more, better-paid jobs out of it and it is great to know that 400 people throughout the school are being helped by the resources on it.

I've done two sites now though, so from now on, no more undercharging

.Matt · 12-16-2004, 10:06 AM

I had to read the title twice... rip yourself off

When I used to be into designin I used to do it occasionally

hanz · 12-16-2004, 10:25 AM

rip myself off? no, i hope
btw nice site, but i think its too brown. i do not like brown very much

Enchantedragon · 12-21-2004, 08:13 PM

wow, what a cool design. Seems like alot of work has been put into it.

adam_uk · 12-23-2004, 03:41 AM

ive mugged myself off loads of times

someone said they needed something build, mentioned a gallery script, thought fair enough, not to much of a hard job, was learning php at the time so set a cheap price

it then developed into me building an entire site and cms for the same price

but at the time i was happy about something so i couldnt go back on my word

12-15-2004, 12:49 PM	THREAD STARTER #1 (permalink)
skinns NamePros Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: atlanta Posts: 27	you ever rip yourself off ? Howdy designers. You ever done a site for a company that has just started up for a really low budget and as the project continues, so does the content, the number of pages, and the customers web knowledge grow but the price stays the same. Well here is a site that is going that way. Cenergi "the colour salon" comments / suggestions - welcome Skinns

12-15-2004, 02:28 PM	#2 (permalink)
redhippo NamePros Expert Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: ANForum Posts: 5,218	never done that...it seems to suck...but then..... __________________ \|www.vb-skins.com\|- Quality Premade Vbulletin skins for Your VB forum makeover \|www.Banjir.com\|-Free image hosting?[B]For Sale!\|AlphaScripts\|Money Generating Scripts FREE VB Skins

12-15-2004, 10:03 PM	#6 (permalink)
dgridley NamePros Legend Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: SW Missouri Posts: 18,341 Follow @davew3b	My brother used to send me design work .. I did several small sites for his business friends.. each running around $650-850 for a couple days work. THEN, I'd start getting asked to change this graphic, update this page, etc. all for free months later.. no way was I gonna do that.. __________________ davew3b tumblr blog \| davew3b posterous blog

12-16-2004, 04:10 AM	#8 (permalink)
armstrong Man from Manila Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Net Posts: 6,025	Nice site. "Feature creep" is what's happening to you, and yes, this is a frequent problem in software development projects. That's why its important to have a contract (signed if possible, documented via email if not) listing all the things you will do for them. If the client insists on some extra features outside the contract, make a note of the request and suggest that these can go on "version 2" of the project. Needless to say, v2 also comes with "payment 2". __________________ Apollo's excellent 3-letter .BIZ auction; $1 starting bid!

12-16-2004, 10:25 AM	#13 (permalink)
hanz onArcade.com Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Estonia Posts: 1,224	rip myself off? no, i hope btw nice site, but i think its too brown. i do not like brown very much __________________ so.ee - really short URLs onArcade arcade script

12-15-2004, 06:21 PM	#3 (permalink)
tony84 Account Closed Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 624	why not say this is turning into a much bigger job than they initially said so it will cost a little extra for you to carry on with the site

12-15-2004, 06:39 PM	#4 (permalink)
Nunim NamePros Regular Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 384	Yeah I do it all the time, I offer to install a mod but ususually a person who tried to install one before me isn't the smartest so I end up reinstalling almost every thing.

12-15-2004, 09:06 PM	#5 (permalink)
Rowan W NamePros Regular Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: QLD, Australia Posts: 713	I'm in the same situation myself actually, it's my first job and it seems that my client will never be satisfied, they keep asking me to change things and add more things, AND IT"S ONLY A FLASH INTRO! For my next job I'm going to make up an agreement saying that the client can only provide feedback at 3 sperate times during the work period and then they have to take what I've done, unless they pay extra. It's all part of the learning experience I guess Nice site by the way, very professional. As for your situation, if they continue to ask you to do more work on the site you should let them know that you never intended to charge them for that amount of work, and they should be grateful you're only charging what you are. Then tell them that you're not going to do much more unless they're willing to pay you extra. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/web-design-reviews/60004-you-ever-rip-yourself-off.html But I don't know exactly what your situation is so maybe that wouldn't work.

12-16-2004, 02:31 AM	#7 (permalink)
Jed K o-re-sa-ma Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,599	This doesn't really answer your question, but... ... I just wanted to say that that site you posted looks very nice. Good work.

12-16-2004, 09:13 AM	THREAD STARTER #10 (permalink)
skinns NamePros Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: atlanta Posts: 27	Thanks for the feedback and your other experiences. I had these problems early on my web development experience a couple of years back. I have since changed my conditions to an hourly rate, (which is fantastic), but this one particular client slipped by for many reasons. One is that the owner of the salon has been a friend of mine for 10 years plus. The second is that fiance is the receptionist there. So I kind of bite my tongue on this one. skinns

12-16-2004, 09:50 AM	#11 (permalink)
will7 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 2,691	Yes! I know completely what you're saying! Recently, I did a major rip off site. I charged £200 for a site, that I knew was going to be a lot of pages, but didn't know it was going to ve in excess of 150 pages (which it is now). It's nearly done though, so that's a plus. The thing is, it's for a teacher (made for a teacher at my school), and apparently he's leaving soon, he said he might go to a university or college, and he'll definitely send some business my way - which is a good thing. Yes, I am annoyed for doing it so cheap, but I'm an optimist, and I look at it as a learning experience, I might get more, better-paid jobs out of it and it is great to know that 400 people throughout the school are being helped by the resources on it. I've done two sites now though, so from now on, no more undercharging

12-16-2004, 10:06 AM	#12 (permalink)
.Matt Account Closed Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: England Posts: 926	I had to read the title twice... rip yourself off When I used to be into designin I used to do it occasionally

12-21-2004, 08:13 PM	#14 (permalink)
Enchantedragon NamePros Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Zealand Posts: 77	wow, what a cool design. Seems like alot of work has been put into it.

12-23-2004, 03:41 AM	#15 (permalink)
adam_uk Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 2,187	ive mugged myself off loads of times someone said they needed something build, mentioned a gallery script, thought fair enough, not to much of a hard job, was learning php at the time so set a cheap price it then developed into me building an entire site and cms for the same price but at the time i was happy about something so i couldnt go back on my word

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