To Frame or not to Frame?

FreeBaGeL · 03-25-2005, 08:29 AM

Hi all,

I'm building a website for a fantasy football league I'm starting up. Just a simple design opinion question here.

So far all I've got is the header, take a looksee.

From there, I'm going to put another little navigation bar down the left side of the page with some more links, and then the main content in the main window (below the header and to the right of the other navigation bar). Pretty standard layout.

My question is simply whether you all think I should use frames or not. With the frames, I'd have a frame at the top for the header, a frame on the left for the other navigation pane, and then a frame in the middle for the content. It would make the transition from page to page a little cleaner, and also allow me to use the forums with the header/navigation pane still available to the user.

However, I've heard many bad things about frames. Would I be better off just creating a function to call the header and navigation pane and including them on each page?
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/web-design-discussion/77692-to-frame-or-not-to-frame.html

Thanks in advance.

RTM · 03-25-2005, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by FreeBaGeL

However, I've heard many bad things about frames. Would I be better off just creating a function to call the header and navigation pane and including them on each page?

Stay away from frames - there are a wide variety of reasons why it is rare that modern site design generally precludes the use of frames. Indeed, use a language such as ASP or PHP and include your external navigation elements.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=77692

I haven't done a framed site for clients in the past 5-6 years. Just my $0.02...

Rob

-db- · 03-25-2005, 08:42 AM

I've got to agree with RTM. These days, I can't think of many reasons to still use frames. The bad points heavily outweigh the good. I've seen some articles and methods that appear to have found ways to make frames more friendly (for search engines, etc.) but they seem to create more work and maintenance for the webmaster, which defeats the whole purpose. IMHO, you should avoid them.

EDIT: I am not an expert on frames. I am just speaking from my own experience and research.

dna · 03-25-2005, 08:51 AM

The real value to frames is to steal content
and features from other web sites.

stscac · 03-25-2005, 09:33 AM

not to frame, plain and simple

RTM · 03-25-2005, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by dna

The real value to frames is to steal content
and features from other web sites.

Hmmm.... perhaps, in some ways. On the other hand, that can also be done using funky include statements and/or URL rewriting...
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=77692

I would say that frames were originally used primarily to provide static navigational elements such as menu bars. As coding technology advanced (Javascript, DHTML, PHP, ASP, etc.) there were far more elegant ways of achieving the same objectives without using framed pages...

Rob

adam_uk · 03-25-2005, 10:22 AM

it depends entirely on the application to be honest. frames can be a very handle and powerfull tool depending on what your doing with them.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=77692

im currently buidling a support/sales/faq customer support portal for my business and its using frames. simple reason is there are pages in the frames such as navigation (which is tree style) and once loadedwill never need to load again. ive also got static links on some of the other pages which have links to load link frames, contact us etc etc why should i load these all the times? i dont care about se postions because google doesnt need to spider it. its for users with logon details only. and becuase i dont need to load js files for navigation or links etc it saves on bandwidth which saves on money.

it really depends on the application your building if your using them for a public for people to use dont use them. it doesnt do your site and seo any good. but if your using them for people to use. where seo and link backs etc dont matter then its fine.

snoopi · 03-25-2005, 10:54 AM

From my experience... do not use frames!!! Only after establishiong yourself (website) feel free to use them

majinbuu1023 · 03-25-2005, 09:54 PM

DON'T use frames USE php include

XX7509 · 03-25-2005, 10:47 PM

I would not use frames on any website. I like the fact they give you some extra navigation options, but I stay away from them. The only time I have ever used frames was in an admin control panel which I new only a few people were going to be using, I had almost a hundered links I needed to display, and I could control which browser etc. the user was using. I would never recommend frames for a production website that has a large target audicene, or variables that you cannot perdict, like browser types. They also make it extremely hard for handicap users, and aural browsers (browsers that read the content out loud for blind people)

03-25-2005, 08:29 AM	THREAD STARTER #1 (permalink)
FreeBaGeL NamePros Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 36	To Frame or not to Frame? Hi all, I'm building a website for a fantasy football league I'm starting up. Just a simple design opinion question here. So far all I've got is the header, take a looksee. From there, I'm going to put another little navigation bar down the left side of the page with some more links, and then the main content in the main window (below the header and to the right of the other navigation bar). Pretty standard layout. My question is simply whether you all think I should use frames or not. With the frames, I'd have a frame at the top for the header, a frame on the left for the other navigation pane, and then a frame in the middle for the content. It would make the transition from page to page a little cleaner, and also allow me to use the forums with the header/navigation pane still available to the user. However, I've heard many bad things about frames. Would I be better off just creating a function to call the header and navigation pane and including them on each page? ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/web-design-discussion/77692-to-frame-or-not-to-frame.html Thanks in advance.

03-25-2005, 08:42 AM	#3 (permalink)
-db- NamePros Inc. Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Under the bed. Posts: 5,609	I've got to agree with RTM. These days, I can't think of many reasons to still use frames. The bad points heavily outweigh the good. I've seen some articles and methods that appear to have found ways to make frames more friendly (for search engines, etc.) but they seem to create more work and maintenance for the webmaster, which defeats the whole purpose. IMHO, you should avoid them. EDIT: I am not an expert on frames. I am just speaking from my own experience and research. __________________ I support Children: Wish.org \| MissingKids.com I support Animals: SPCA.org \| SPCA.com Jeff \| Armstrong \| Grrilla - First 3 inductees into NamePro's Hall-Of-Fame. Last edited by -db-; 03-25-2005 at 08:50 AM.

03-25-2005, 10:54 AM	#8 (permalink)
snoopi Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: E.U. Posts: 1,038	From my experience... do not use frames!!! Only after establishiong yourself (website) feel free to use them __________________ WebProxy.cc - Browse what & when you want! :kickass: Brand New Media Site Script MyMediaScript.com:kickass:

03-25-2005, 09:54 PM	#9 (permalink)
majinbuu1023 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Zealand Posts: 3,746	DON'T use frames USE php include __________________ WowHumor.net - Funny World of Warcraft Pictures

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03-25-2005, 08:51 AM	#4 (permalink)
dna NamePros Regular Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 646	The real value to frames is to steal content and features from other web sites.

03-25-2005, 09:33 AM	#5 (permalink)
stscac A Wealth of Knowledge Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 3,803	not to frame, plain and simple

03-25-2005, 10:22 AM	#7 (permalink)
adam_uk Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 2,187	it depends entirely on the application to be honest. frames can be a very handle and powerfull tool depending on what your doing with them. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=77692 im currently buidling a support/sales/faq customer support portal for my business and its using frames. simple reason is there are pages in the frames such as navigation (which is tree style) and once loadedwill never need to load again. ive also got static links on some of the other pages which have links to load link frames, contact us etc etc why should i load these all the times? i dont care about se postions because google doesnt need to spider it. its for users with logon details only. and becuase i dont need to load js files for navigation or links etc it saves on bandwidth which saves on money. it really depends on the application your building if your using them for a public for people to use dont use them. it doesnt do your site and seo any good. but if your using them for people to use. where seo and link backs etc dont matter then its fine.

03-25-2005, 10:47 PM	#10 (permalink)
XX7509 New Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: United States Posts: 6	I would not use frames on any website. I like the fact they give you some extra navigation options, but I stay away from them. The only time I have ever used frames was in an admin control panel which I new only a few people were going to be using, I had almost a hundered links I needed to display, and I could control which browser etc. the user was using. I would never recommend frames for a production website that has a large target audicene, or variables that you cannot perdict, like browser types. They also make it extremely hard for handicap users, and aural browsers (browsers that read the content out loud for blind people)

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