web browsers

photomonkey · 10-09-2005, 08:03 AM

I thought this would be an interesting thread.

Please name the browsers that you have used, and their best feature. mine are:

Firefox: Open in Tabs
Opera: Voice
ie: File -> close

Barrucadu · 10-09-2005, 09:13 AM

firefox - tabs and extensions

photomonkey · 10-09-2005, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by Mikor

firefox - tabs and extensions

yeah, I forgot to mention the extensions as well on FF.
I like the full screen view on Opera, it is indeed full screen.

Albino · 10-09-2005, 10:15 AM

firefox

tabs extensions and the little search funtion in the top right

(an extension yes, but a REALLY good one)

SquireQuack · 10-09-2005, 10:38 AM

I've been using Firefox since it was 0.49 beta

Definiately a fan:

Firefox:
Highly customizeable
Simple Interface
Tab Browsing
Automatic pop-up blockers (without toolbars, etc.)

leviathon · 10-09-2005, 11:25 AM

Add-ons to the previouos FireFox post:

-Insta-search
-advanced "find"
-automatic size adjustment

CodyNPaige · 10-09-2005, 12:36 PM

firefox - tabs and extensions :-)

LeetPCUser · 10-09-2005, 12:37 PM

1) Firefox - Tabs/Multiple Home Pages
2) IE - Windows Updates (and that is it)

leviathon · 10-09-2005, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by TheComputerGeek247

1) Firefox - Tabs/Multiple Home Pages
2) IE - Windows Updates (and that is it)

IE - even AFTER windows update it still can't match FireFox.

SquireQuack · 10-09-2005, 03:12 PM

Firefox is simply the best...there's no question about it

Rowan W · 10-09-2005, 03:55 PM

In no particular order:

Firefox - everything
IE - nothing
Mozilla
Netscape
Opera - ok
Avant - It's still IE with or without the shell.

Zeeble · 10-09-2005, 04:02 PM

FireFox - tabs
IE - speed

ChrisKL · 10-09-2005, 06:44 PM

1. FF - Nothing. Is not 100% W3C compliant.
2. Opera - Nothing. Is not 100% W3C compliant.
3. IE - Speed and 90% of the web uses it, and if one wants to make $$$ and stay sane, they'll continue to web design for it even if it's unconventional (it's like trying to remove tables completely for page layouts. Sure it can be done, but if you want to keep your hair..........)

CKL

Rowan W · 10-09-2005, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisKL

1. FF - Nothing. Is not 100% W3C compliant.
2. Opera - Nothing. Is not 100% W3C compliant.
3. IE - Speed and 90% of the web uses it, and if one wants to make $$$ and stay sane, they'll continue to web design for it even if it's unconventional (it's like trying to remove tables completely for page layouts. Sure it can be done, but if you want to keep your hair..........)
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/web-design-discussion/130212-web-browsers.html

CKL

I agree, if everything worked properly then I wouldn't have any business. It's so much more fun to work around errors and limitations to see what can be achieved through hard work and creativity. Who cares if you could do something in 1/10th of the time using standards, standards are over rated and useless.

ChrisKL · 10-09-2005, 07:31 PM

Ah, but those errors and limitations are in the eye of the beholder. Just going by W3C as the bible, leaves us with over a dozen browsers and no one sees the internet as W3C says it should.

Should we ditch every browser then?

Fat chance (because every browser has fans, and they'll be at each other throats trying to defend their favorite).

Seriously, if FF becomes the dominate browser it'll be no better than IE, because the scammers, script kiddies, and black hats want the greatest access to do their bidding -- they're not brand loyal. Only us pundits.

CKL

Rowan W · 10-09-2005, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisKL

Ah, but those errors and limitations are in the eye of the beholder. Just going by W3C as the bible, leaves us with over a dozen browsers and no one sees the internet as W3C says it should.

Should we ditch every browser then?

Fat chance (because every browser has fans, and they'll be at each other throats trying to defend their favorite).

Seriously, if FF becomes the dominate browser it'll be no better than IE, because the scammers, script kiddies, and black hats want the greatest access to do their bidding -- they're not brand loyal. Only us pundits.

CKL

Firefox may not be any more secure than IE, but it's a better browser none the less. No browser fully supports w3 recommendations, but at least they can try, the IE team has put in a half-arsed attempt and are only now making effort to improve their standards support.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=130212

I don't care if Firefox becomes the #1 browser and as a result becomes a security hole, at least my websites will be seen how I want them. I don't care if IE gains 99% market share, as long as they support at least as much as Firefox/Mozilla/Netscape, as far as standards go.

kthx

ChrisKL · 10-10-2005, 02:42 AM

Rowan, just picking on MS to go with the crowd doesn't excuse it. MS is making money (like any of us would like), and despite the *nix crowd crying it's unfair or MS is rotten, rotten, rotten they're the ones going to the bank with bags of cash.

Interesting tidbit. Guess what OS on the server market is making the $$$$$$$$ One would think *nix hosts are cashing in, but the serious money is in the corporate world. MS has the corporate server market as well (something I didn't think, since so many hosts are peddling *nix flavors).

Many folks claim to be principled (No ePatents! Support openware!), but when it comes to plain dollars and sense, they won't turn down money signs in the end. We're all here to hussle some dough, and if it take using Windows or even IE to do so, you better believe they will.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=130212

Only pundits are brand loyal -- and chances are they're not trying to make the serious money, but project workers.

Bill Gates is a billionaire not so much on principle, but because he saw an opportunity and exploited it to no end. Which in this business, folks need to pay attention too -- or you'll be nickel and diming and wondering why your enterprise never really went anywhere.

A heads up.

CKL

Rowan W · 10-10-2005, 06:29 AM

First of all I don't pick on Microsoft and I don't "go with the crowd", I work 40 hours a week on websites and I know what I'm talking about (unlike most of those who "follow the crowd").

Do you think I care if Microsoft is making more money? What has that got to do with anything? Just because they make more money and have most of the market share, doesn't mean it's ok to take shortcuts on software they pay millions of dollars for.

It's not about principles either, it's about whatever works the best, and IE isn't it. I don't preach about linux either, because it simply isn't as efficient as windows (imho).
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=130212

To me, it sounds like you're the one going with the crowd (ie microsoft) and supporting the company with the most market share and money. Do you look for something better or just settle with whatever's given to you?

Or, do you just get annoyed when everyone tells you to switch to Firefox?

ChrisKL · 10-10-2005, 07:04 AM

It's got to mean something, Rowan, since without $$$ we wouldn't be here -- at all. We'd be hunter/gatherers instead. It takes capital to do things, even make societies and civilizations.

IE may not be the best, and folks can cry over spilt milk until there's no more cows to come home, but what does it do? Does it make IE users bolt to another browser? (No). It causes arguments just like this of: mine's bigger or better than yours (snicker, snicker).

The truth is to make it in this now corporate world you need capital. The reason MS is big is because investors consider it a sure bet and throw billions at it. The *nix flavors maybe more superior and less buggy (and from I hear it's not, from those who have to toil in fixing computers), but it doesn't matter much but to the cyperpunks -- the rest of the world is looking to make a buck instead. Their dollars are funneling into corporate coffers, where they can get a nice return (as Google stock investors understand).
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=130212

In a time when unity is more important (the world isn't wired to the internet as it should, the US is even behind Korea and Japan in how many folks have internet access), fighting over some standard that changes every couple of years, is fruitless. It's not going to change buying patterns, let alone people who believe in Occam's Razor even if they don't understand how it works.

IE will be the dominate browser until some investors are willing to invest in the next OS/browser computer tech company. Until then this is what we got, and we have to make the best of it -- whining about "it's not compliant" doesn't mean squat when 90% of the potential income careless about the web dev grumblings, and will continue to add to their misery.

CKL
As opinionated as ever :sigh:

thomaslgates · 10-10-2005, 08:58 AM

FireFox :: A great enhancement for the user

Netscape :: Nothin (dont like it so much...)

IE :: Dont kno why many people use it.!

def1 · 10-10-2005, 04:00 PM

I dont get whats so great about firefox. I recently downloaded it and its not that great. I have to download a crazy amount of flash and java extensions just to hear music and play games. My browser has tabs, rss, and a search box at the right. Not to mention all the cool css image filters you can use that firefox and opera dont support. Am i missing something about ff

Rowan W · 10-10-2005, 04:42 PM

Chris,

I, don't, care, about, how, much, $, they, make.

Quote:

IE may not be the best, and folks can cry over spilt milk until there's no more cows to come home, but what does it do? Does it make IE users bolt to another browser? (No).

No, it causes Microsoft improve their browser and make changes for the better.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=130212
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=130212

Quote:

whining about "it's not compliant" doesn't mean squat when 90% of the potential income careless about the web dev grumblings, and will continue to add to their misery

So then why has the IE team promised to release IE7 with these changes?
source: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/07/29/445242.aspx

"In IE7, we will fix as many of the worst bugs that web developers hit as we can, and we will add the critical most-requested features from the standards as well. Though you won’t see (most of) these until Beta 2, we have already fixed the following bugs from PositionIsEverything and Quirksmode:"

* Peekaboo bug
* Guillotine bug
* Duplicate Character bug
* Border Chaos
* No Scroll bug
* 3 Pixel Text Jog
* Magic Creeping Text bug
* Bottom Margin bug on Hover
* Losing the ability to highlight text under the top border
* IE/Win Line-height bug
* Double Float Margin Bug
* Quirky Percentages in IE
* Duplicate indent
* Moving viewport scrollbar outside HTML borders
* 1 px border style
* Disappearing List-background
* Fix width:auto

"In addition we’ve (IE team) added support for the following"

* HTML 4.01 ABBR tag
* Improved (though not yet perfect) <object> fallback
* CSS 2.1 Selector support (child, adjacent, attribute, first-child etc.)
* CSS 2.1 Fixed positioning
* Alpha channel in PNG images
* Fix :hover on all elements
* Background-attachment: fixed on all elements not just body

Surely they wouldn't have to do this because they already own most of the market share. Theoretically they could leave it as it is and never release an update, because it comes pre-installed on windows and everyone has windows, right? They must be worried about something or they wouldn't have announced these changes.

Perhaps it's all the whining that has made them wake up, or maybe it's because FF has taken a good portion of the market share in a very short time.

"I think we will make a lot of progress against that in IE7 through our goal of removing the worst painful bugs that make our platform difficult to use for web developers."

What are your thoughts? (and please don't mention money again, I'm not planning to release my own software)

Do you honestly think whining is useless?

FYI, businesses DO care what customers say and they try to improve their services based on those suggestions. A business won't grow if it doesn't listen to it's customers and improve itself.

jmweb · 10-10-2005, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by def1

I dont get whats so great about firefox. I recently downloaded it and its not that great. I have to download a crazy amount of flash and java extensions just to hear music and play games. My browser has tabs, rss, and a search box at the right. Not to mention all the cool css image filters you can use that firefox and opera dont support. Am i missing something about ff

Agreed! Downloading the extras isn't much of a turn on.

ChrisKL · 10-10-2005, 05:57 PM