Caveat Emptor: Bob_M and Pay Pal

financialaidnyc · 04-11-2011, 08:25 PM

I never used to believe pay pal fraud would happen to me. Now, I know pay pal fraud is real. I posted a thread a while ago when I suspected a namepros member by the name of BOB_M scammed me out of $300 for a website he never built. (Not long after, he did the same thing to another NP member). Suspicions were confirmed when he responded to pay pal regarding my claim, yet never replied to me.

He told pay pal the payment was for digital goods, and of course, they ruled against a refund because the dispute is regarding intangible goods. Bull$*&^! The thing is, this BOB_M loser has a verified pay pal account--meaning, its connected to his bank account. So his REAL information is there. However, Vincent, the paypal rep told me I could only access his information with a subpoena. His account is not closed although there MAY be a public warning if this sort of activity persists with his account.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/warnings-and-alerts/710636-caveat-emptor-bob_m-and-pay-pal.html

Paypal is the most "trusted" way to exchange money online? Really? I know, I know, always read the fine print before exchanging money for services online. But, this kind of thing should not be in fine print. It should be be a warning in red: DO NOT PAY FOR SERVICES WITH PAY PAL -- WE BACK UP SCAMMERS. I've attached the email they sent regarding the "resolution" of the claim.

I think I'll start the next pay pal. Looks like a great way to make a million bucks. Collect money for services never rendered, keep the fee and get rich! Oh yeah, check out the obviously fake email BOB_M uses to reply with paypal.
Here are 2 others of his: Bob Matthews <bobswebdev@gmail.com>,
realprvtemail@gmail.com

We have concluded our investigation into your case:

Case ID:
Transaction Date: Mar 19, 2011
Transaction Amount: -$300.00 USD
Seller's Email: prvtemail9@gmail.com
Seller's Name: Mountain Deliveries

Unfortunately, we were unable to resolve this claim in your favor because
the item purchased was virtual or intangible. As a result, we have not
taken any action against the seller at this time but we have noted your
dissatisfaction in the seller's record for future reference.

If you still have concerns about this transaction, we encourage you to
continue to work directly with the seller for an amicable resolution.

Thank you,
Bogdan
Protection Services Department

Toni · 04-12-2011, 06:43 AM

Sorry to hear that, yes been there a few times with paypal as well - rest assured the money is gone unless the designer refunds you.

Now I don't know the whole story nor BOB_M but it seems like he had 100% positive transactions before (15 trades at NP), very few people like to throw away their reputation for a few hundred dollars.

Maybe you could make him aware of this thread to share his side of the story, also you should let a mod know of this situation, just click report post and they'll do the right thing after both sides have been heard..

financialaidnyc · 04-12-2011, 09:23 AM

Hi Toni- Believe me, it makes no sense to me either. I chose to use Bob for the project because of his positive feedback. I've emailed him over and over (via the forum, and privately.) yet, no response. However, he did respond to paypal once things were escalated to a claim. Not to resolve anything, just to argue that he offered a "digital good." Why someone would ruin their reputation for $300 is a mystery to me. But, obviously, I am angry. You say you've been there a few times with paypal--it's crazy that if you want to do business, unless you pay for a merchant account, pay pal is the golden standard.

David G · 04-12-2011, 09:47 AM

I don't know who Bob_M is but that's how PayPal operates. I know it sucks. Been there and done that.

If you buy electronic, digital and online services PayPal will not allow a chargeback even if you never received the service and may have cancelled the order before delivery and installation!

In some ways I can understand and can agree with the PayPal policy since it's very tough (maybe impossible) to confirm a service is "not as described" (which is the typical reason given by the buyer) but don't agree if it was an order cancellation and there was no service delivery, and no 'work' done by seller. If a seller spent time programming, on order fulfillment or whatever then a refund is probably not warranted.

You could try a low-cost lawsuit in your local small claims court.

Toni · 04-12-2011, 09:58 AM

it appears that BOB_M hasn't been online at NP since 03-20-2011 02:11 AM , there might be more to the story, maybe a family emergency for example...

Quote:

Hi Toni- Believe me, it makes no sense to me either.

But it matters for the whole NP marketplace, we need a clean marketplace with people you can trust..

financialaidnyc · 04-12-2011, 10:09 AM

Yeah, low-cost lawsuit is what I'm thinking. I will make a big deal out of $300--it's a lot to me. Even if I'm just a mosquito buzzing around this guy, I'm not going to sit back and forget about this. It could be expensive, but I'm angry on the principle. I also really want others to know that they aren't "protected" with pay pal in situations like this. Or, create enough of a buzz for PayPal to change their polices or include a visible buyer warning before they click "send money" for services.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=710636

---------- Post added at 01:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:04 PM ----------

Hey Toni-- that's exactly what someone said a month ago. However, Bob told me on 3/15, in his last email to me via NP pm that he wouldn't be on here much and to contact him directly. I paid him on 3/19. Also, if that was the case (family emergency)--he should at least let the customer know. If he could take time to reply to pay pal to refuse a refund, why couldn't he communicate with me?

scottx1995 · 04-15-2011, 10:11 PM

I got scammed too
i paid him 20$ on 11th April =/
it is way less than what yu lost, but why would someone do it for like 20$ seriously ?=/
no reply yet. he contacted me on a forum

he seemed reputable on that site as well..
bob matthews and all the info you provided is exactly the same for me.
he said "i ll have something mid week" and bam ! he is gone lol..

financialaidnyc · 04-16-2011, 12:20 AM

Wow...professional a&&! I want to make a case against this guy. I think I found his server at joesdatacenter.com. When I googled the fake no. he has on his paypal receipt, another website he owns comes up and is hosted there, . I also filed a complaint at Ic3.gov. Report him to paypal as well, not that you'll get your money back but maybe they'll shut his account.

Finally, no matter what you buy via paypal, check the goods option, not services. At least you'll have a chance to get your money back if you ever get scammed again. This guy...

Toni · 04-16-2011, 12:50 AM

Ok seems like he is back online now:

BOB_M Last Activity: Yesterday 01:31 AM

I am going to report this thread now so mods can try to get in touch with him and see what's the full story...

@financialaidnyc: did you hear anyone having success with ticking the goods option instead of services??

scottx1995 · 04-16-2011, 06:09 AM

It was my first time dealing with paypal and i am really new to all this, so didn choose the product or service option, chose the gift option, not going to get anything back for sure but i will definitely report this to paypal.

yeah i am an idiot for doing that, but hey i learnt it.. BUT.. it was the hard way lol

Originally Posted by financialaidnyc

Wow...professional a&&! I want to make a case against this guy. I think I found his server at joesdatacenter.com. When I googled the fake no. he has on his paypal receipt, another website he owns comes up and is hosted there, . I also filed a complaint at Ic3.gov. Report him to paypal as well, not that you'll get your money back but maybe they'll shut his account.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=710636

Finally, no matter what you buy via paypal, check the goods option, not services. At least you'll have a chance to get your money back if you ever get scammed again. This guy...

financialaidnyc · 04-16-2011, 12:57 PM

Ooooohhh, Bob_M was on? I wish I could track him down!

Anyway, Toni--if you read paypal's TOS the only way you have a chance to receive a refund is if the item purchased was for tangible goods. If you tick the goods option, in the case of a scam such as mine, you can argue that the goods were never sent. Goods have tracking numbers, I guess that's why paypal only refunds for tangible items. I've spoken to people who have received refunds on paypal for damaged items. However, if the seller disappears and takes the money, there's no guarantee you'll get the money back from paypal.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=710636
BUT if your paypal is linked to your bank account, use your bank account via paypal to send money to the seller. If there's a mishap, your Bank can issue a chargeback.

daj · 04-19-2011, 03:42 PM

Apparently Bob_M is the banned member RHINO. Back in 2008 he scammed me.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=710636

financialaidsnyc just Pm'ed me about it. Here's my thread from back then: http://www.namepros.com/warnings-and...epros-com.html

Paypal didn't see in my favor either do to it being a digital good. Their policy sucks for digital items. I would never pay upfront for design or logo work unless the person is highly reputable and transparent.

If you paid with a credit card (not your bank account) you can call your credit card company or bank issuer to do a chargeback, but Paypal will close your account if you do this, but you will get your money back in most cases! You can always make a new paypal account with a different bank account and check card but it is a hassle.

I also read that people have been able to get their money back for digital goods if they click the "Unauthorized Transaction" button in the Resolution Center instead of "Item Dispute". I've yet to have to try that, but I will if it happens next time.

***iowadawg*** · 04-19-2011, 05:18 PM

If you had the money come out of your bank account direct to paypal to pay for this (or anything else).
It will also work if you contact your bank.
They can do a quick chargeback and paypal has to honor it.
And yes, paypal probably will close your account for doing so, but what the hey right?

David G · 04-19-2011, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by financialaidnyc

Finally, no matter what you buy via paypal, check the goods option, not services. At least you'll have a chance to get your money back if you ever get scammed again. This guy...

Likely makes no diffrence since you still have to reveal the "goods" involved and also have a signed delivery receipt from the shipper.

financialaidnyc · 04-20-2011, 10:27 AM

Money wise, I'll probably never get it back. unfortunately, although my bank account is attached to my paypal, the funds were already in paypal. So my bank can't help me. But, I found out who the guy who scammed me is and have filed a criminal report. This guy (or kid) has been scamming people in forums since 2009 or before.

***iowadawg*** · 04-20-2011, 10:37 AM

I would switch banks.
I had a problem like this and a quick talk with my bank's VP and bam....
They got the money back from paypal.
Should be any bank in the USA will work with you when it comes to money taken out of your account.

financialaidnyc · 04-20-2011, 01:33 PM

Wow, really? I called citibank and spoke to an associate--but good call. I'll try again. Thanks IowaDawg! (Thumbs up after school special style lol)

04-11-2011, 08:25 PM	THREAD STARTER #1 (permalink)
financialaidnyc NamePros Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 69	Caveat Emptor: Bob_M and Pay Pal I never used to believe pay pal fraud would happen to me. Now, I know pay pal fraud is real. I posted a thread a while ago when I suspected a namepros member by the name of BOB_M scammed me out of $300 for a website he never built. (Not long after, he did the same thing to another NP member). Suspicions were confirmed when he responded to pay pal regarding my claim, yet never replied to me. He told pay pal the payment was for digital goods, and of course, they ruled against a refund because the dispute is regarding intangible goods. Bull$&^! The thing is, this BOB_M loser has a verified pay pal account--meaning, its connected to his bank account. So his REAL information is there. However, Vincent, the paypal rep told me I could only access his information with a subpoena. His account is not closed although there MAY be a public warning if this sort of activity persists with his account. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/warnings-and-alerts/710636-caveat-emptor-bob_m-and-pay-pal.html Paypal is the most "trusted" way to exchange money online? Really? I know, I know, always read the fine print before exchanging money for services online. But, this kind of thing should not be in fine print. It should be be a warning in red: DO NOT PAY FOR SERVICES WITH PAY PAL -- WE BACK UP SCAMMERS. I've attached the email they sent regarding the "resolution" of the claim. I think I'll start the next pay pal. Looks like a great way to make a million bucks. Collect money for services never rendered, keep the fee and get rich! Oh yeah, check out the obviously fake email BOB_M uses to reply with paypal. Here are 2 others of his: Bob Matthews <bobswebdev@gmail.com>, realprvtemail@gmail.com We have concluded our investigation into your case: Case ID: Transaction Date: Mar 19, 2011 Transaction Amount: -$300.00 USD Seller's Email: prvtemail9@gmail.com Seller's Name: Mountain Deliveries Unfortunately, we were unable to resolve this claim in your favor because the item purchased was virtual or intangible. As a result, we have not taken any action against the seller at this time but we have noted your dissatisfaction in the seller's record for future reference. If you still have concerns about this transaction, we encourage you to continue to work directly with the seller for an amicable resolution. Thank you, Bogdan Protection Services Department __________________ AmazingDryCleaner.com http://www.madmarketingmethod.com/be...adlesson_1.php Last edited by financialaidnyc; 04-12-2011 at 12:54 AM. Reason: detail change*

04-12-2011, 06:43 AM	#2 (permalink)
Toni Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Right here! Posts: 3,915	Sorry to hear that, yes been there a few times with paypal as well - rest assured the money is gone unless the designer refunds you. Now I don't know the whole story nor BOB_M but it seems like he had 100% positive transactions before (15 trades at NP), very few people like to throw away their reputation for a few hundred dollars. Maybe you could make him aware of this thread to share his side of the story, also you should let a mod know of this situation, just click report post and they'll do the right thing after both sides have been heard.. __________________ Free Facebook Fans, Free Twitter Followers, Earn Cash, check out: Click Fans - The Social Exchange Community

04-12-2011, 09:23 AM	THREAD STARTER #3 (permalink)
financialaidnyc NamePros Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 69	Hi Toni- Believe me, it makes no sense to me either. I chose to use Bob for the project because of his positive feedback. I've emailed him over and over (via the forum, and privately.) yet, no response. However, he did respond to paypal once things were escalated to a claim. Not to resolve anything, just to argue that he offered a "digital good." Why someone would ruin their reputation for $300 is a mystery to me. But, obviously, I am angry. You say you've been there a few times with paypal--it's crazy that if you want to do business, unless you pay for a merchant account, pay pal is the golden standard. __________________ AmazingDryCleaner.com http://www.madmarketingmethod.com/be...adlesson_1.php

04-12-2011, 09:47 AM	#4 (permalink)
David G NamePros Regular Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 269	I don't know who Bob_M is but that's how PayPal operates. I know it sucks. Been there and done that. If you buy electronic, digital and online services PayPal will not allow a chargeback even if you never received the service and may have cancelled the order before delivery and installation! In some ways I can understand and can agree with the PayPal policy since it's very tough (maybe impossible) to confirm a service is "not as described" (which is the typical reason given by the buyer) but don't agree if it was an order cancellation and there was no service delivery, and no 'work' done by seller. If a seller spent time programming, on order fulfillment or whatever then a refund is probably not warranted. You could try a low-cost lawsuit in your local small claims court. Last edited by David G; 04-12-2011 at 09:59 AM.

04-12-2011, 10:09 AM	THREAD STARTER #6 (permalink)
financialaidnyc NamePros Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 69	Yeah, low-cost lawsuit is what I'm thinking. I will make a big deal out of $300--it's a lot to me. Even if I'm just a mosquito buzzing around this guy, I'm not going to sit back and forget about this. It could be expensive, but I'm angry on the principle. I also really want others to know that they aren't "protected" with pay pal in situations like this. Or, create enough of a buzz for PayPal to change their polices or include a visible buyer warning before they click "send money" for services. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=710636 ---------- Post added at 01:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:04 PM ---------- Hey Toni-- that's exactly what someone said a month ago. However, Bob told me on 3/15, in his last email to me via NP pm that he wouldn't be on here much and to contact him directly. I paid him on 3/19. Also, if that was the case (family emergency)--he should at least let the customer know. If he could take time to reply to pay pal to refuse a refund, why couldn't he communicate with me? __________________ AmazingDryCleaner.com http://www.madmarketingmethod.com/be...adlesson_1.php

04-15-2011, 10:11 PM	#7 (permalink)
scottx1995 New Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2	I got scammed too I got scammed too i paid him 20$ on 11th April =/ it is way less than what yu lost, but why would someone do it for like 20$ seriously ?=/ no reply yet. he contacted me on a forum he seemed reputable on that site as well.. bob matthews and all the info you provided is exactly the same for me. he said "i ll have something mid week" and bam ! he is gone lol.. Last edited by scottx1995; 04-16-2011 at 07:15 AM. Reason: fun lol

04-16-2011, 12:20 AM	THREAD STARTER #8 (permalink)
financialaidnyc NamePros Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 69	Wow...professional a&&! I want to make a case against this guy. I think I found his server at joesdatacenter.com. When I googled the fake no. he has on his paypal receipt, another website he owns comes up and is hosted there, . I also filed a complaint at Ic3.gov. Report him to paypal as well, not that you'll get your money back but maybe they'll shut his account. Finally, no matter what you buy via paypal, check the goods option, not services. At least you'll have a chance to get your money back if you ever get scammed again. This guy... __________________ AmazingDryCleaner.com http://www.madmarketingmethod.com/be...adlesson_1.php

04-16-2011, 12:50 AM	#9 (permalink)
Toni Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Right here! Posts: 3,915	Ok seems like he is back online now: BOB_M Last Activity: Yesterday 01:31 AM I am going to report this thread now so mods can try to get in touch with him and see what's the full story... @financialaidnyc: did you hear anyone having success with ticking the goods option instead of services?? __________________ Free Facebook Fans, Free Twitter Followers, Earn Cash, check out: Click Fans - The Social Exchange Community

04-16-2011, 12:57 PM	THREAD STARTER #11 (permalink)
financialaidnyc NamePros Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 69	Ooooohhh, Bob_M was on? I wish I could track him down! Anyway, Toni--if you read paypal's TOS the only way you have a chance to receive a refund is if the item purchased was for tangible goods. If you tick the goods option, in the case of a scam such as mine, you can argue that the goods were never sent. Goods have tracking numbers, I guess that's why paypal only refunds for tangible items. I've spoken to people who have received refunds on paypal for damaged items. However, if the seller disappears and takes the money, there's no guarantee you'll get the money back from paypal. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=710636 BUT if your paypal is linked to your bank account, use your bank account via paypal to send money to the seller. If there's a mishap, your Bank can issue a chargeback. __________________ AmazingDryCleaner.com http://www.madmarketingmethod.com/be...adlesson_1.php

04-19-2011, 03:42 PM	#12 (permalink)
daj Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,073	Apparently Bob_M is the banned member RHINO. Back in 2008 he scammed me. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=710636 financialaidsnyc just Pm'ed me about it. Here's my thread from back then: http://www.namepros.com/warnings-and...epros-com.html Paypal didn't see in my favor either do to it being a digital good. Their policy sucks for digital items. I would never pay upfront for design or logo work unless the person is highly reputable and transparent. If you paid with a credit card (not your bank account) you can call your credit card company or bank issuer to do a chargeback, but Paypal will close your account if you do this, but you will get your money back in most cases! You can always make a new paypal account with a different bank account and check card but it is a hassle. I also read that people have been able to get their money back for digital goods if they click the "Unauthorized Transaction" button in the Resolution Center instead of "Item Dispute". I've yet to have to try that, but I will if it happens next time. Last edited by daj; 04-19-2011 at 03:47 PM.

04-19-2011, 05:18 PM	#13 (permalink)
*iowadawg* Business Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Not in Texas Posts: 2,409 Follow @iowadawg	If you had the money come out of your bank account direct to paypal to pay for this (or anything else). It will also work if you contact your bank. They can do a quick chargeback and paypal has to honor it. And yes, paypal probably will close your account for doing so, but what the hey right? __________________ Say What? \| Blogging Anything Interesting

04-20-2011, 10:27 AM	THREAD STARTER #15 (permalink)
financialaidnyc NamePros Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 69	Money wise, I'll probably never get it back. unfortunately, although my bank account is attached to my paypal, the funds were already in paypal. So my bank can't help me. But, I found out who the guy who scammed me is and have filed a criminal report. This guy (or kid) has been scamming people in forums since 2009 or before. __________________ AmazingDryCleaner.com http://www.madmarketingmethod.com/be...adlesson_1.php

04-20-2011, 10:37 AM	#16 (permalink)
*iowadawg* Business Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Not in Texas Posts: 2,409 Follow @iowadawg	I would switch banks. I had a problem like this and a quick talk with my bank's VP and bam.... They got the money back from paypal. Should be any bank in the USA will work with you when it comes to money taken out of your account. __________________ Say What? \| Blogging Anything Interesting

04-20-2011, 01:33 PM	THREAD STARTER #17 (permalink)
financialaidnyc NamePros Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 69	Wow, really? I called citibank and spoke to an associate--but good call. I'll try again. Thanks IowaDawg! (Thumbs up after school special style lol) __________________ AmazingDryCleaner.com http://www.madmarketingmethod.com/be...adlesson_1.php

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