Let’s stop scammers once for good: Welcome MoneyBookers, Goodbye PayPal!

italiandragon · 09-04-2010, 03:10 AM

Dear friends,

During the years we have seen on multiple occasions how PayPal transactions have been manipulated at the expense of many honest domainers.

PayPal refused (and still does) to solve the problem and most of the times we rely on luck or the other person’s past feedback.

This has created a constant downturn in the amount of transactions and an increased risk that in our business should no longer be tolerated.
On the other hand, scammers have been prospering and laughing at us, scamming many of us, sometimes even expert people. All of this, is mining our reputation (non-domainers may confuse the honest domainers with scammers) and I don’t like to deal in an unclear business environment.

We can use the services of MoneyBookers and be risk-free on both sides.

“NO charge back risk for merchants”

moneybookers.com

So what are you waiting for? You should NOW (not tomorrow) go to Moneybookers.com - Send Money - Receive Money - Online Payments - Money Transfers and open an account and fund it as soon as possible.
MoneyBookers offers also an extremely cheap escrow service and has an affiliate program if you want to go that way to promote it. (I’m not employed by them and am not advertising any affiliate code here).

Starting today, I NO longer deal with PayPal, nor will I be willing to waive this decision for anyone.
I firmly believe that we can change this bad habit in a few days (that’s how long it takes to fund a newly open MoneyBookers account).

Like for the “restaurant rule”, if we get going, all domainers will join this no-brainer change.

For the past couple of years, I got all the excuses of this world:

- I can’t open one (why? No answer…)
- I’m a friend of…
- I have a good transaction history…
- I don’t have the time to open one…

Enough is enough.

I don’t care if its laziness or any other excuse, if you want to do business with me, whether you are a newbie or the most famous domainers in the world, please OPEN a MB account NOW.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/warnings-and-alerts/675660-let-s-stop-scammers-once-good.html

Please, copy and distribute this message to as many domainers you can as fast as you can.

I would also take the chance to ask to the NP staff if they could support this, by making this thread sticky for a while and/or move it to the most appropriate section.

Thank you

Sparhawke · 09-04-2010, 03:15 AM

I will take a look at it, but if I was going to make an "excuse" it would be that MB is not going to be as well known as paypal and why should I tie my money up in a service that isn't that well supported?

Alertpay has been going for a while as competition to paypal yet hardly anyone ever hears about it?

italiandragon · 09-04-2010, 03:24 AM

Originally Posted by Sparhawke

I will take a look at it, but if I was going to make an "excuse" it would be that MB is not going to be as well known as paypal and why should I tie my money up in a service that isn't that well supported?
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=675660

Alertpay has been going for a while as competition to paypal yet hardly anyone ever hears about it?

My suggestion would be to at least start using MB with a few hundred $ (while you finish using PayPal).

We need to start.

Let's "sacrifice" something for a big reward down the track.

This week, I already refused to sell one domain and now buyer is opening a MB account.

DomainMagnate · 09-04-2010, 03:41 AM

Hey Lorenzo, I have an MB account and used it many times, but few people want to buy or sell domains with MB.

Why exactly is it better than paypal?

As for pp scammers it's usually easy to spot them. I had many scammers try to con me with this trick over the years, but usually I can see within the first few seconds of reading the message who I'm dealing with.
Why do you hate PP so much?

Alex P · 09-04-2010, 03:43 AM

Funny enough I've had more problems with MB than I have ever had in years using paypal not down to people sending me money but they closed my account at one point and I have no clue why.

Paypal is great if your careful.

italiandragon · 09-04-2010, 03:57 AM

Originally Posted by DomainMagnate

Hey Lorenzo, I have an MB account and used it many times, but few people want to buy or sell domains with MB.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=675660

Why exactly is it better than paypal?

As for pp scammers it's usually easy to spot them. I had many scammers try to con me with this trick over the years, but usually I can see within the first few seconds of reading the message who I'm dealing with.
Why do you hate PP so much?

Its customers support is USELESS.

They recently froze my account and only after providing them my ID and lots of other sensitive docs, they unlocked it.....taking their sweet time (10 days).

But that's not the point. The point is chargebacks risk.

---------- Post added at 08:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:55 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Alex P

Funny enough I've had more problems with MB than I have ever had in years using paypal not down to people sending me money but they closed my account at one point and I have no clue why.

Paypal is great if your careful.

Hi Alex,

I never heard problems with MB.

Please do, tell us more.

Thanks

Alex P · 09-04-2010, 04:06 AM

Earlier this year I couldn't log on or reset my password due to a error, ive forgot the details but I ditched it in the end since I don't have any money on it, just out of curiosity im going to try reset it again could come in useful in the future.

stub · 09-04-2010, 04:10 AM

Most of my recent posts for sale have included the option of PayPal or MoneyBookers (unless I forgot to include it), not one sale has the buyer opted for MoneyBookers.

They're support is way worse than PayPal.

Could you say a few words on how their escrow works?

italiandragon · 09-04-2010, 04:16 AM

Originally Posted by Alex P

Earlier this year I couldn't log on or reset my password due to a error, ive forgot the details but I ditched it in the end since I don't have any money on it, just out of curiosity im going to try reset it again could come in useful in the future.

That is not their fault, is it?
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=675660

Also, MB is growing:

Quote:

Moneybookers is one of Europe’s largest online payments systems and among the world’s leading eWallet providers, with over 13 million account holders. The simple eWallet enables any customer to conveniently and securely pay online without revealing personal financial data, as well as to send and receive money transfers cost-effectively by simply using an email address. Moneybookers’ worldwide payment network offers businesses access to over 80 payment options in over 200 countries with just one integration. Already more than 60,000 merchants use Moneybookers’ payments service, including global partners such as eBay, Skype and Thomas Cook.

Moneybookers was founded in 2001 in London and is regulated by the Financial Services Authority of the United Kingdom.

In February 2010, The Sunday Times Microsoft Tech Track 100 league table ranked Moneybookers 1st as the fastest growing technology company in the UK based on sales growth. Moneybookers was also recognised for the quality of its management, international expansion and growth strategy with two awards at the 2009 UK Media Momentum Awards.

---------- Post added at 09:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 PM ----------

Originally Posted by stub

Most of my recent posts for sale have included the option of PayPal or MoneyBookers (unless I forgot to include it), not one sale has the buyer opted for MoneyBookers.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=675660

They're support is way worse than PayPal.

Could you say a few words on how their escrow works?

The "Restaurant rule" is indeed, people tend to prefer something that others do.

But in this case, it's not the PayPal service being good, it's just came first.

In honesty, I never had a problem with MB services but I never used their Escrow service yet.

Alex P · 09-04-2010, 04:33 AM

Originally Posted by italiandragon

That is not their fault, is it?

If its not there's who's fault is it.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=675660

italiandragon · 09-04-2010, 04:49 AM

Originally Posted by Alex P

If its not there's who's fault is it.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=675660

I don't know, maybe I misunderstood, did not you write that you forgot your login details?

Did you contact them?

***promo*** · 09-04-2010, 04:54 AM

I can only agree.. I actually had promoting MB over PP as a main interest area a few years back.. Call to arms...

Though I think PP has improved in many areas (masspay) they still do not provide the ultimate guarantee for your money as moneybookers do.

Alex P · 09-04-2010, 04:54 AM

Originally Posted by italiandragon

I don't know, maybe I misunderstood, did not you write that you forgot your login details?
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=675660

Did you contact them?

No I forgot the details of the error

At the time I didn't bother contacting them because it wasn't worth it, with almost no one I knew using MB. I do think though selling domains is hard enough sometimes without passing up sales because they wont make a MB account to pay you with.

italiandragon · 09-04-2010, 05:19 AM

Originally Posted by Alex P

No I forgot the details of the error

At the time I didn't bother contacting them because it wasn't worth it, with almost no one I knew using MB. I do think though selling domains is hard enough sometimes without passing up sales because they wont make a MB account to pay you with.

If you have not contacted them, you can't go around saying they are bad.

Maybe there was a technical glitch, it happens, I had plenty with PayPal too.

Let's see if together we can at least bring the conservative PayPal "affectionados" to give a fair go to MB.

I spread this message today to several Forums, my hope now is that the respective staff will highlight the threads and whoever has blogs, journals, etc. starts spreading ASAP this invitation.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=675660

It's not hard.

Alex P · 09-04-2010, 05:28 AM

I never said they were bad however I highlighted ive had more problems with Mb than I have had with paypal. Even if I was hating against Mb id be doing just the same as you against paypal

italiandragon · 09-04-2010, 05:35 AM

Originally Posted by Alex P

I never said they were bad however I highlighted ive had more problems with Mb than I have had with paypal. Even if I was hating against Mb id be doing just the same as you against paypal

Sorry, I confused you with the other person here.

snoopinc · 09-04-2010, 06:08 AM

I have Moneybookers as a backup. The issue is that not many businesses accept it. I've used it for small purchases and everything has gone smooth.

I still use Paypal as my primary method of payment.

**Eric** · 09-04-2010, 06:14 AM

Unless it recently changed, I thought MB didn't allow people in the US to send/receive money?

lincolndsp · 09-04-2010, 06:29 AM

yes, the major problem with MB is that due to some super-druper US anti-money laundering legislation MB does not handle transactions with US people. please correct me if now it's allowed.

if this changes, MB would grow considerably faster.

italiandragon · 09-04-2010, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by lincolndsp

yes, the major problem with MB is that due to some super-druper US anti-money laundering legislation MB does not handle transactions with US people. please correct me if now it's allowed.

if this changes, MB would grow considerably faster.

That would be ironic, since it was a similar law that apparently forces PayPal to ask ten million things to all Australians once they transfer more than $1,000

edit: just checked, USA is NOT on the prohibited countries so it's all good.

---------- Post added at 12:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:10 AM ----------

Originally Posted by snoopinc

I have Moneybookers as a backup. The issue is that not many businesses accept it. I've used it for small purchases and everything has gone smooth.

I still use Paypal as my primary method of payment.

The issue here is domainer-to-domainer payments, not domainer-to-business or business-to-domainer.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=675660

You can have both.

nielsencl · 09-04-2010, 09:11 AM

I have a MB account (I think) but I have been unable to use it. Why? Becuase they required verification by SMS or cellphone and I don't have a cellphone. I opened the account because my friend in Serbia had one and I have seen them mentioned many times. I don't know their reputaion, but I tend to trust UK companies more than other countries except the US and Canada.

But the main reason I don't use MB is that I have been using PayPal for about 5-6 years now and not had any problems. Maybe I have been lucky. But I don't take any risks either. I don't sell to people I don't have some information about and I don't trasnfer domains until AFTER I am 100% certain I have the money and it will not be taken away from me later. And I use Escrow.com for larger transactions.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=675660

I'm not sure blaming PayPal for what scammers do it the right response to the situation. Maybe it is.

***Makis.TV*** · 09-04-2010, 09:17 AM

I ve used MB 5 times, smooth transactions risk free.
While I was scammed with PP and a chargeback the 3rd time I ve used them some yrs ago.

**SlimPickins** · 09-04-2010, 09:35 AM

Lorenzo,

I can certainly understand, and respect, your aversion of PP due to your customer service, having money frozen and the legitimate "charge back" fear...... however, for me personally, the one (and hopefully ONLY) time I have been scammed has been via moneybookers.

You state "We can use the services of MoneyBookers and be risk-free on both sides.

NO charge back risk for merchants"

...but what about the instances where the so-called "merchant" is the scammer? For example, in my instance, the scammer hacked an account and sold a domain to me with payment to be only via moneybookers. I received the domain and paid, only to have the domain removed from my account the next day. Moneybookers absolutely refused to refund my money, despite "looking into it", since I knowingly sent the payment (ie my MB account was not hacked). Another time, having paid for services with paypal and gotten the run-around for a very long time, I filed a complaint and Paypal, after requesting facts from both sides, refunded my money.

Don't take this as a Paypal is the "best" rant.... however, I think that to be completely fair in your "recommendation" of MB over PP you have to acknowledge the fact that the "risk factor" is simply reversed, providing little, if any, protection for the buyer if things go awry.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=675660

I haven't checked out or used MB's escrow service but can say that I am very happy with moniker's escrow service and rates.

When selling, I always offer both as an option, and am careful about who I allow PP from, and when buying I am careful about who I pay using MB....

SP

werty · 09-04-2010, 09:40 AM

Yes. I have been very mad with Paypal for the last year or so. I can't even view transactions older than a week, got some chargebacks, and their support has gone down dramatically. I do plan on stopping to use paypal as they favor buyers instead of their real clients (sellers).

kanoodledood · 09-04-2010, 11:36 AM

Paypal is neither a bank nor law enforcement.

If you feel that you've been the victim of a crime, it's up to you to contact authorities. A chargeback itself is not a crime.

"A chargeback is the return of funds to a consumer, forcibly initiated by the consumer's issuing bank."

Chargeback ratios vary, from business to business, from adult to non-adult, and so on.

Whether you are using MB, PP or another payment intermediary, it's your duty to make sure you are dealing with respectable individuals/entities.

Good luck.

09-04-2010, 03:10 AM	THREAD STARTER #1 (permalink)
italiandragon NamePros Expert Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: AUSTRALIA Posts: 6,390	Let’s stop scammers once for good: Welcome MoneyBookers, Goodbye PayPal! Dear friends, During the years we have seen on multiple occasions how PayPal transactions have been manipulated at the expense of many honest domainers. PayPal refused (and still does) to solve the problem and most of the times we rely on luck or the other person’s past feedback. This has created a constant downturn in the amount of transactions and an increased risk that in our business should no longer be tolerated. On the other hand, scammers have been prospering and laughing at us, scamming many of us, sometimes even expert people. All of this, is mining our reputation (non-domainers may confuse the honest domainers with scammers) and I don’t like to deal in an unclear business environment. We can use the services of MoneyBookers and be risk-free on both sides. “NO charge back risk for merchants” moneybookers.com So what are you waiting for? You should NOW (not tomorrow) go to Moneybookers.com - Send Money - Receive Money - Online Payments - Money Transfers and open an account and fund it as soon as possible. MoneyBookers offers also an extremely cheap escrow service and has an affiliate program if you want to go that way to promote it. (I’m not employed by them and am not advertising any affiliate code here). Starting today, I NO longer deal with PayPal, nor will I be willing to waive this decision for anyone. I firmly believe that we can change this bad habit in a few days (that’s how long it takes to fund a newly open MoneyBookers account). Like for the “restaurant rule”, if we get going, all domainers will join this no-brainer change. For the past couple of years, I got all the excuses of this world: - I can’t open one (why? No answer…) - I’m a friend of… - I have a good transaction history… - I don’t have the time to open one… Enough is enough. I don’t care if its laziness or any other excuse, if you want to do business with me, whether you are a newbie or the most famous domainers in the world, please OPEN a MB account NOW. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/warnings-and-alerts/675660-let-s-stop-scammers-once-good.html Please, copy and distribute this message to as many domainers you can as fast as you can. I would also take the chance to ask to the NP staff if they could support this, by making this thread sticky for a while and/or move it to the most appropriate section. Thank you __________________ www.MMCP.com www.decretoingiuntivo.net www.ipotecalegale.info www.swishersweetslittlecigars.com

09-04-2010, 03:15 AM	#2 (permalink)
Sparhawke Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: England Posts: 1,726	I will take a look at it, but if I was going to make an "excuse" it would be that MB is not going to be as well known as paypal and why should I tie my money up in a service that isn't that well supported? Alertpay has been going for a while as competition to paypal yet hardly anyone ever hears about it? __________________ I taut I taw a Putty Tat Available Domain Names

09-04-2010, 03:41 AM	#4 (permalink)
DomainMagnate Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,576	Hey Lorenzo, I have an MB account and used it many times, but few people want to buy or sell domains with MB. Why exactly is it better than paypal? As for pp scammers it's usually easy to spot them. I had many scammers try to con me with this trick over the years, but usually I can see within the first few seconds of reading the message who I'm dealing with. Why do you hate PP so much? __________________ Domain Magnate

09-04-2010, 04:10 AM	#8 (permalink)
stub NamePros Expert Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 7,313	Most of my recent posts for sale have included the option of PayPal or MoneyBookers (unless I forgot to include it), not one sale has the buyer opted for MoneyBookers. They're support is way worse than PayPal. Could you say a few words on how their escrow works? __________________ COMDots - DNDots - StubDomains - WebmasterUnlimited - DNSPortfolio

09-04-2010, 06:08 AM	#17 (permalink)
snoopinc NamePros Regular Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 495 Follow @shaunfm	I have Moneybookers as a backup. The issue is that not many businesses accept it. I've used it for small purchases and everything has gone smooth. I still use Paypal as my primary method of payment. __________________ Flare.me - Quality Image Hosting

09-04-2010, 03:43 AM	#5 (permalink)
Alex P Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: .uk Posts: 1,349	Funny enough I've had more problems with MB than I have ever had in years using paypal not down to people sending me money but they closed my account at one point and I have no clue why. Paypal is great if your careful.

09-04-2010, 04:06 AM	#7 (permalink)
Alex P Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: .uk Posts: 1,349	Earlier this year I couldn't log on or reset my password due to a error, ive forgot the details but I ditched it in the end since I don't have any money on it, just out of curiosity im going to try reset it again could come in useful in the future.

09-04-2010, 04:54 AM	#12 (permalink)
*promo* Business Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: DK Posts: 1,010	I can only agree.. I actually had promoting MB over PP as a main interest area a few years back.. Call to arms... Though I think PP has improved in many areas (masspay) they still do not provide the ultimate guarantee for your money as moneybookers do.

09-04-2010, 05:28 AM	#15 (permalink)
Alex P Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: .uk Posts: 1,349	I never said they were bad however I highlighted ive had more problems with Mb than I have had with paypal. Even if I was hating against Mb id be doing just the same as you against paypal

09-04-2010, 06:14 AM	#18 (permalink)
Eric Tech Support Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 4,944	Unless it recently changed, I thought MB didn't allow people in the US to send/receive money?

09-04-2010, 06:29 AM	#19 (permalink)
lincolndsp NamePros Regular Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 995	yes, the major problem with MB is that due to some super-druper US anti-money laundering legislation MB does not handle transactions with US people. please correct me if now it's allowed. if this changes, MB would grow considerably faster. __________________ Partnercash

09-04-2010, 09:11 AM	#21 (permalink)
nielsencl Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 2,516	I have a MB account (I think) but I have been unable to use it. Why? Becuase they required verification by SMS or cellphone and I don't have a cellphone. I opened the account because my friend in Serbia had one and I have seen them mentioned many times. I don't know their reputaion, but I tend to trust UK companies more than other countries except the US and Canada. But the main reason I don't use MB is that I have been using PayPal for about 5-6 years now and not had any problems. Maybe I have been lucky. But I don't take any risks either. I don't sell to people I don't have some information about and I don't trasnfer domains until AFTER I am 100% certain I have the money and it will not be taken away from me later. And I use Escrow.com for larger transactions. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=675660 I'm not sure blaming PayPal for what scammers do it the right response to the situation. Maybe it is. __________________ Lorraine Bowman - Internet Expert Witness - Bankrupture - Ad Creation Marketplace - How To Sell Domain Name

09-04-2010, 09:17 AM	#22 (permalink)
*Makis.TV* Business Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Glyfada, Greece Posts: 2,825 Follow @makismour	I ve used MB 5 times, smooth transactions risk free. While I was scammed with PP and a chargeback the 3rd time I ve used them some yrs ago. __________________ Check your Speed Test in just a few seconds Domain blogging, hosting tips, wordpress theme reviews and development Kids and Teens Alopecia Online Convert your psd layout 2 joomla template

09-04-2010, 09:35 AM	#23 (permalink)
SlimPickins Diggin' the Domains... Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,730	Lorenzo, I can certainly understand, and respect, your aversion of PP due to your customer service, having money frozen and the legitimate "charge back" fear...... however, for me personally, the one (and hopefully ONLY) time I have been scammed has been via moneybookers. You state "We can use the services of MoneyBookers and be risk-free on both sides. NO charge back risk for merchants" ...but what about the instances where the so-called "merchant" is the scammer? For example, in my instance, the scammer hacked an account and sold a domain to me with payment to be only via moneybookers. I received the domain and paid, only to have the domain removed from my account the next day. Moneybookers absolutely refused to refund my money, despite "looking into it", since I knowingly sent the payment (ie my MB account was not hacked). Another time, having paid for services with paypal and gotten the run-around for a very long time, I filed a complaint and Paypal, after requesting facts from both sides, refunded my money. Don't take this as a Paypal is the "best" rant.... however, I think that to be completely fair in your "recommendation" of MB over PP you have to acknowledge the fact that the "risk factor" is simply reversed, providing little, if any, protection for the buyer if things go awry. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=675660 I haven't checked out or used MB's escrow service but can say that I am very happy with moniker's escrow service and rates. When selling, I always offer both as an option, and am careful about who I allow PP from, and when buying I am careful about who I pay using MB.... SP

09-04-2010, 09:40 AM	#24 (permalink)
werty NamePros Regular Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 498	Yes. I have been very mad with Paypal for the last year or so. I can't even view transactions older than a week, got some chargebacks, and their support has gone down dramatically. I do plan on stopping to use paypal as they favor buyers instead of their real clients (sellers).

09-04-2010, 11:36 AM	#25 (permalink)
kanoodledood NamePros Regular Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 206	Paypal is neither a bank nor law enforcement. If you feel that you've been the victim of a crime, it's up to you to contact authorities. A chargeback itself is not a crime. "A chargeback is the return of funds to a consumer, forcibly initiated by the consumer's issuing bank." Chargeback ratios vary, from business to business, from adult to non-adult, and so on. Whether you are using MB, PP or another payment intermediary, it's your duty to make sure you are dealing with respectable individuals/entities. Good luck. Last edited by kanoodledood; 09-04-2010 at 11:27 AM.

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