C0rnholio

Just like many other people out there that has had problems with RentaCoder.com I would like to tell my story. After 40 Completed projects on RAC, with a rating of 9.40 I lost one Arbitration that was first conducted by 2 Arbitrators and that later ended-up being finalised by Ian Ippolito himself.

Here's what happened. I was assigned to work on a project about a Flash Intro for a Mercedes Garage in UK. I have worked on the intro and while the work was being in progress I held my entire conversation with the buyer on RAC's message board. After the first mock I showed the buyer, he was very very happy with it ... and specifically wrote how excited he is, how good it looks and how "it's worth the money he's paying" ( his exact words ). However in order for the buyer to see the intro I used my server so he could see how it behaves online etc rather than uploading my work periodically on RAC's message board. Especially after I had his written acceptance I didn't figure there will be any problems in case of Arbitration. However ... after a few minor changes the buyer asked, the intro was in the PERFECT state according to his own messages. When I asked him if it's all good so I can upload it to the FINISHED WORK section so he can release the escrow, he never answered anything for 3 weeks... and then all of the sudden "This is not what I asked for .. I'm taking this into Arbitration". Knowing of the messages on the board I was so sure this was going to be a very easy and short one... Ohhhh I was wrong. I got the Rafeek dude to be the first Arbitrator ... thing is ... in his original bid request, the buyer wrote this :

Jazz up an existing web site with a multimedia rich
home page that maintains the sites theme.

The web site is for a specialist motor car mechanics
and the home page should consist of moving cars, engine sounds, and internal engine shots.

The website is www.mastertechassist.com

Basically its just an Intro page that i need that seamlessly integrates with the rest of the site.

My finished intro can be seen here : http://www.permisauto.ro/web/garage ( the ENTER SITE button links to my homepage cause I thought about using that last security matter before I get paid the money - and I was proven to be very smart to do so, so the buyer is now unable to use it )

Please note the huge gap in quality between the website and the intro I designed ( this is not relevant to the discussion however ).

It's is true that the buyer asked for "moving cars" in the original bid request, and in my intro there are only static pictures of Mercedes Cars flying around ... but he accepted the intro after seeing it completed, that means he also accepted the fact that there was this difference between what he asked and what he got ( RAC rules sais Everything stated in the Message Board becomes a part of the CONTRACT but in our case IT DIDN'T. Why??? I don't know ... ask IAN IPPOLITO ).

Rafeek started testing my deliverables versus the original bid request not giving a **** the buyer already accepted the intro as it was 4 TIMES, in 4 MESSAGES right on their BOARD !!! So he awarded him the wining ... I had the option of asking for a SENIOR Arbitrator and I did ( although I was risking loosing my account for trying to delay the Arbitration ) ... and I got mr. Ian Ipolitto himself ( CEO of RentaCoder ). After Ian actually read the entire message board ( cause Rafeek never did so, cause we kept asking stupid questions that had the answers right in the BOARD ... ) he found the buyer guilty of telling lies. He either lied when he told me he likes the intro or lied in the end when saying he doesn't like it. Either way it's still a lie no matter what. The buyer kept screaming about how he LIED TO ME because he was in a DURESS STATE, and out of time with the project ( that I admit got delayed a bit during work process but he never mentioned ANYTHING about it before ). But what happens if we all lie and then say we were FORCED TO DO SO ?? The thing is I never got from the buyer ONE SINGLE LINE saying he's not happy about the intro, or the project got delayed or stuff like that. He was always ASSURING ME that I would get paid and that he is very happy with the work. Let me quote some of his lines :
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/warnings-and-alerts/384819-rentacoder-com-rip-off-arbitration-pure.html

- I like the intro, great job man!! I would like to pay you more, as you got skillz, but i aint got much to work with.
- You've done what we agreed so you get the 200 regardless of anything else.
- I did like it, and i think its worth what i paid, and you stuck to your end of the bargain.

These are his own words, right on the message board, after seeing the job complete.

After proving the buyer a liar, Ian Ippolito still awarded him the win because my work did not met the original requirements ( cause of the moving cars issue ). But it didn't matter that the buyer canceled his own original requirements by accepting the work as I have showed him. That thing didn't matter to Rafeek and it didn't matter to Ian Ippolito himself. It didn't matter the buyer lied 2 times in the whole thing :
- once when first assured me I would get paid and then changing his mind
- and second in the first Arbitration when he said the intro I uploaded to RAC is not the same with the one I showed him ( like I would have been an idiot to upload something else knowing I will loose the Arbitration )
It didn't matter that it was proven by Ian Ippolito himself that the buyer is a LIAR. They just found me guilty cause I didn't upload the work periodically. I already admitted that my mistake right when the Arbitration began. But what more proof did they need other than the buyer SPECIFIC acceptance on their own website ???

I really had hoped Ian would have been different than Rafeek ( who didn't read carefully everything being said in the Arbitration ). But I was wrong. They all care more for the buyers who supply work rather than the coders, which are already 200.000 in number so they wouldn't care loosing one by one ... there are still LOTS AND LOTS MORE...

I am honestly very dissapointed in how this whole thing was resolved. Although I am sure that beeing from Romania I have no legal power against RAC or the buyer, and it's not a matter of the 200$ I lost, it's a matter of JUSTICE and the fact that I have worked a product, I have that product ACCEPTED by the buyer ... and I still get BACK-STABBED. I want this to be read by everybody so you know who you're dealing with.

In a similar posting on this forum I have seen that a RAC member is already registered here and gives answers. I would like him/her to answer my thread also because how this was resolved is simply OUTRAGEOUS!!!
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=384819

Thank you very much RENTACODER.

C0rnholio

Maybe it's because that during the Arbitration the buyer informed us all he has another project in development, a $3.500 project actually. That would mean a $500+ profit for RentaCoder. It's pretty obvious that they would feel they need to protect a buyer, that is bringing that type of work onto RAC. If they would have awarded me the Arbitration, they would have probably lost such a profitable buyer ... This is only a supposition of mine. I don't like to talk without facts and there is no proof they acted like that because of this reason.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=384819

I do hope my arbitration gets reviewed and I want LEGAL ( the username of the RAC representative on this forum ) to tell me why did this happened. If they prove their point then it's ok with me. But I want this to be transparent so everyone can see what's what. If I am right however, I expect appologies and MY RIGHT EARNED MONEY back, and the buyer's account bad ranked at least ( if not suspended for trying to LIE during a project development and Arbitration ).

My username on RAC is : Cornholio to make it easier for anyone in RAC's staff to find the project I am talking about.

I really felt safe working on RAC cause of the Arbitration system ( other websites don't have one ) and I have another project in development in there. I do want to work there, but in order to do so I need to feel protected against lieing and cheating buyers such as the one I am talking about now. It seems however that coders get back-stabbed right from the company that screams out loud : WE PROTECT OUR CODERS.

-Nick-

First of all remove that flash of yours from the server. You might not know but there are tools that can rip off that flash of yours and change that Enter button to go to his site. So it will be an easy thing for someone.

I don't know what the process is nowadays. But when there is freelancing work on that scale going on. Problems are bound to happen

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C0rnholio

Who do you think would rip it off ? The buyer or other people ?

Jeffrey

Somebody could rip off or steal your Flash design.

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arejayell

Anyone, look at the resale packages offered with web development templates, they are nothing but rips from template monster, and boxedart, done in the same way that can be done to your flash file.

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C0rnholio

LOL I know what you mean and I know how it works ... I have worked with decompilers myself, all I am saying is that if the buyer uses the intro in the website I can always show that to RAC to prove he jacked me and not destroied the work. I can get my money from his other escrow accounts on RAC or have his account closed. If someone else would steal it ....well, they could steal it from the actual website also ... so ... I don't care.

christopher_c

I was thinking in the case of stealing your .swf or whatnot, why not just use a screen recorder and record the intro rather than actually giving him the link. That way, you are minizing the risk of being ripped off.

sorpeman

RentACoder sucks...

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=507932


http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showp...88&postcount=9

__________________
:mad: Dont use 2Checkout - It Sucks! :mad:

C0rnholio

Thanks sopeman ... thing is I wrote a line to Legal about this thread but he's on dead silence !!! This is sooooooooo funny ... if they don't answer me in any way I will post this in all the forums I will find on google when searching for "forum" =)) I will go "Super-bowl commercial" on their asses until I get my money and the buyer's account suspended. I still have my pride with me, and I have you guys...

I suppose my case is sooo obvious they refuse to take the stand in order not to completely make a fool out of them. Or they simply wait for his 3.500$ project to be over so they can be sure they don't loose the $500+ and then they will answer ... ha ha ha.

Zeeble

I really do feel for you. Their arbitration process is a complete and utter joke.

I had a very similar case where the original arbitrator was simply copying and pasting pre-composed answers as arbitration responses and until eventually, Ian stepped in. this carried on for 5 months without any testing actually ever having been done.

My advice is, don't hold your breath for a response.

I too complained here on NamePros and was then threatened with legal action by their solicitor for "libel".
http://www.namepros.com/warnings-and...nightmare.html

__________________
“It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest.� - Adam Smith

acronym007

What's up Colin. I always had your back. I found some others that were not too hap[y with them also.

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=507932

C0rnholio

Hey let's do something ... I donno ... start a forum of our own ... with complaints from people having these type of problems with more companies, not only RAC. And of course the chance for them to respond back

Zeeble I know about your thread ... but tell me ... did you went late with your answer more than 3 days or didn't you ? I still didn't fully get what happened. I mean maybe in your case they might have had SOMETHING to rely their answer on ... but in my case ...

I really am curious what they say ( if they would ever say anything ).

Zeeble

Hey Acro, I saw that thread as well. Seems that there are quite a few people who are not happy with them.

Shame really as it only seems to be their arbitration process which is letting them down.

Thanks for backing me up, I did get quite worried when I actually got a letter from their solicitor but I wasn't prepared to back down.

__________________
“It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest.� - Adam Smith

MisterD

I have been passing via they're arbitration process and it's quite a freaking joke. I must admit. I had like 60 job's done, all 10's perfect notes with super comments from previous buyers. Was a 2 year old account and all of a sudden a freak buyer comes in in order to get a 500 worth work job done for 30$ but he started to change the rules once the bid was accepted and brought me into arbitration... I have fight like a crazy dog but still have lost. with a 3 rating. for 30$.. 2 years of hard sweeting work for almost nothing beside building up a good reputation that was spoiled by an arbitration process that sucks + a freaking no hearth buyer that only wants to exploit people! but eh.. what can be done... I have passed over. Off course I had a little rebellion period where I have written emails to Ian I appolito the owner and told him all the story, closed my account etc etc etc.. but after a year I stared back, continued to offer the same good services I was doing and stacked up under my belt another 15 10 perfect ratings jobs.. so it's not worthed to stick on this problem. Move over and forget about it. Put your energy elsewhere and continue to build your reputation over there despite this event.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=384819


BTW, can i sell my rentacoder account?

psalzmann

On sites like RAC, GAF, etc it's all about the buyer. They would rather let go providers as someone else will always fill another's shoes -- for less (and less hassle to deal with also). Regarding buyers, they are repeat customers .. period. If a buyer has a project worth $10k it's money for RAC (no matter what provider is awarded). If you don't get awarded, someone else will.

Providers are more or less on standby in the hopes to get the work. Buyers are what RAC target which ultimately generates the activity on RAC and the likes.

Think about it - RAC goes into Arb with a buyer and seller. Who's worth more? the buyer. As the buyer may have repeat projects generating RAC more revenue.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=384819

Providers come and go. It's just the way it is.

MisterD

Well although it make sense I have to disagree here. As think about it also, if there is no good provider there will be no good buyers. So if the providers are not being rewarded accordingly then they will quite yes and this will leave the potential quality buyers with a bunch of amateur so they will in they're turn leave the site and search elsewhere. Buyers want they're job to be done via professional providers and professional providers wont stay on rac if rac dis respect them.

it's a 50/50 call here from rac's point of you in my mind. Both buyer's and providers must be treated and "seen" to be worth equivalent in value on the long run and if there's something I would even see the provider to worth more than the buyer.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=384819

BTW: Can we sell a RAC account?

psalzmann

I strongly disagree. You can't justify that statement where if there is no good providers there is no good buyers. The point to RAC is to generate revenue period. How do you do that when there are other sites doing the exact same thing? Cater to buyers. Why? For every buyer posting there are 20 providers bidding. That is 1:20 ratio. Providers come a dime a dozen these days, everyone and their cousin's are designers or developers. Buyers are unpredictable. They may come in the rushes due to some new buyout "Youtube" where you now have like 20 buyers posting the same project to every 100 providers willing to install that youtube script.

The point here is if you have no serious BUYERS there is absoutely NO income for RAC or the providers at all. If there is no income, there is no advertising. If there is no advertising the site fades away. Okay off topic, but I think you get the point where a Buyer is always more valuable than the provider. At least from the standpoint of RAC or any other freelance type site.

And ultimately this is why you see posts like this on forum sites like this one
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=384819

Understandably, I am one of those providers. I'm also a buyer. Not only this but I run a business of creating freelance software (since 2002) so I have some level of knowledge when it comes to how it all works. You do not need to take my advice or agree with me. It's what I see.

You could have 500 providers on your site. But now you'll need buyers. Buyers are gold in the freelance industry. If you have no buyers, you have no real site to trade buy or sell. In RAC case, they need buyers, to pay providers to pay RAC

MisterD

Well, I still disagree with you here and I'll tell you why again. And I am myself on RAC since 2002 with 85+ jobs completed with a 9.85 (Excellent) rating. Number 845 in the overall coders competition list out of 192,872 coders. So I kinda have my "fellings" on the industry over there also.

Your stating:
I agree. And am repeating here that to get serious buyers you need serious providers, else those serious buyers will get pissed off of not having they're product delivered in a professional way and they will think of RAC as being loaded with "wanna be" programmers and designers. Amateur stuff. They will leave and go find another freelance site where there is quality and serious providers.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=384819

I think this is clear enough as a point of my view. Pretty simple..
But you got your view and I have mine and this is what makes everything fun.. diversity!

C0rnholio

Hey MisterD ... I used to have my "feelings" on the industry over to RAC also. After being backstabbed in a way more dirty way on ScriptLance about 2 years ago I was willing to fight anyone who said RAC is bad due to their professionalism and the Arbitration system which seems GOLD to us coders. But that's only on paper. I have had about 2-3 Arbitrations before ... I lost one and I won one. The one I lost was due to my mistakes and it was all fair so no problems there. The one I won was due to the fact that the buyer didn't answer. But when I got involved into something like what happened to me now ... I feel sick and feel the need to puke. I am so disgusted with the way then treated this arbitration. They showed absolutely no sense, after I kept screaming for about 10 times in the whole arbitration process about the fact the buyer accepted my work and kept assuring me he loves it and he will pay it, they didn't give a ****. It was like I was talking to the walls. Ian himself told the buyer he's a liar either cause he said he likes it or a liar when saying he changed his mind and he HAS to pay what he agreed to. But he still awarded him the win. How is this possible? I was soooo stunned !! I am willing to do what it takes for people to know about this.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=384819

I am also willing to accept that they simply made a mistake .. and I am still waiting to hear from them, but since Ian Ippolito himself did the closing ... who else is there to say something else??? Let's face it ... I will never get my earned 200$ back ... there could have been 5$ or less... they were MY RIGHT EARNED MONEY ... all I can do now is spread the word, and I will do it.

How can you continue to work in such an environment where you seem so helpless?? How can you simply move on ?? At least on other sites, you get sharked by buyers, but to be screwed by the website itself ? This is not acceptable. The thing is we're more powerful than they expect. The WWW offers us a lot of power. We won't accept to be treated like this ( at least I won't ) !!

MisterD

I know your feellings for having passed in the same chamber of torture. And it's quite painfull and it's destroying any faith that you had in the system. It took me a full complete year before I even wanted to go back on that site. But I did and start back working on it and this issue as past away..
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=384819

So up to this date the only suggestion I could tell you is to focus your energy on what's in front of you and forget about that because you'll be wasting your time and energy and this wont be usefull in any ways for you at the end.

I am not defending RAC here. In any ways. I am simply sharing my experience with you and letting you know what you might be better of doing in this case.

Hope you'll get everything going fine.
good luck!

C0rnholio

so what happens when you have a dispute with another buyer and you loose miserably AGAIN

MisterD

Well you either concentrate your effort on going on over to your own pace. If you did some work over there then this means that you have all your previous buyers IM's or email addresses. So you could contact them all and specify that you are available for any work they may need.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=384819
In other words grab your customers off site although your not suppose too. That is sort of your reaction based on they're actions. Get me?

In the end you will be the one winning.

So either you do this or either you continue working over RAC and pass over this issue.. ain't much to do now that the arbitration is over. You need to move forward and act intelligently!

Good luck

C0rnholio

LOL man ... I won't consider myself intelligent by walking out on this, on the contrary . At least they can take the effort and answer me. I have PMed "Legal" but no answer ... I will do everything in my power to spread the word

MisterD

Well that's exactly what am saying... you'll loose your energy and put your concentration and effort in the wrong place if you continu as is.. Grab your customers and move on with them.. You'll then be the one winning the game.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=384819