Doing the right thing

LeeRyder · 03-19-2005, 12:30 AM

Sometimes being a man is not easy. It takes fortitude of profound and legendary quality to be all things to all people. But, in my mind... if you do the right thing, everytime your able to at all costs.. you at least will break even in life.

Even at the expense of your own life.

Sometimes, no matter how much it hurts you.. you have to live up to the facts of life and admit defeat in that there is nothing you can do....

Which Brings this post to the topic of Terri Schiavo. Today, the feeding tube was removed by court order for Terri despite an act of congress barring it (she was called to address congress next week, a local judge in florida still ordered her tube to be removed knowing this was just a way to buy time for her life.)

When her tube was being removed, her attorney was a witness to this: Her sister told Terri they were removing her tube, the time had come and that Terri had to say that she wants to live... or she will die.

Terri began to cry. Terri screamed "IIIIII". but could manage no other words.

The Tube was removed from her arm. The murder of Terri will take 10 to 14 days to finish.

It is so barbaric, so horrific that we are justifying to the American people, by rule of law.. this horrid method of sanctioned murder of Brian damaged people.

Murderers get pain medication and put to sleep before the act of putting them to death instantainiously ensues.

I urge you, men, women and all.. to please.. for all that is right... FIGHT FOR TERRI for all that is good. Or we as a nation have lost our soul.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/the-break-room/76300-doing-the-right-thing.html

There will be no getting it back.

There are limited things I can think of to effectively "stay" her execution for now:

1) Invade the hospice. Though she is under Police watch, they can only stop so many people. If.. no..when you get arrested... immediately have your attorney CALL TERRI AS A WITNESS TO YOUR DEFENSE. This will force the courts to replace her feeding tube.

2) Sue Terri! Go to your attorney and press charges against her. This will cause her to be legally a ward of the court and out of her husbands hands..thereby forcing them to replace the tube.

there are other methods, but ..you know.. not legal.

Her husband, if he were to die in some way... would of course no longer have any say as to what happens to her and liability for terri would fall into her parents hands.
Im not asking anyone to kill him.. im just wondering why no one hasnt yet.

I mean, dying by a 38 to the brain instantly is surely less cruel than starving someone to death.

of course.. if you called the florida police and told them I posted a hit out for mr schiavo.. i would be arrested and ...would have to call Terri as a witness...

food for thought.

Apathy is our own worst enemy.

True_Snake · 03-19-2005, 03:30 AM

This story has been gaining media attraction here too, and probably around the world. I am also disgusted at the fact that they are going to starve a poor lady to death, even when they don't have concrete evidence saying that she does not want to live in a "vegitative state".

As one person on a news channel, might have been CNN, said yesterday, that saving life is more important than the marriage. I think he was trying to say that her parents' wishes to save life are more important and "heavy" than her husband's view.

I hope something gets done to put the tube back so that Terri can survive.

Truly Disgusted...
True_Snake

Sabre · 03-19-2005, 03:42 AM

This is the first that ive heard, and i have to say, this is truely disgusting!

Its not her fault!

Do we now value human life so little that we can kill someone in this way??!

Sickening, IMO.

True_Snake · 03-19-2005, 03:44 AM

Originally Posted by Sabre Hosting

Do we now value human life so little that we can kill someone in this way??!

Exactly; I don't see how the judges could so easily let someone die. I look at it as capital punishment, IMHO. Except that Terri didn't committ a crime.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=76300

True_Snake

Sabre · 03-19-2005, 03:46 AM

I mean, think if that was your mother....

Would you happily sit by and watch events unfold?

If i was american, id be leading my own little demonstration outside the hospice....

Seriously... this really makes me angry....

How would they feel if they were in Terris position, helpless.....

-db- · 03-19-2005, 04:32 AM

I was in a similar situation with a loved one. It was not exactly the same scenario, but close enough to know first hand all the emotions and personal struggle involved in making decisions that will undoubtedly effect how long the person lives, and/or suffers.

I understand both sides, and the completely overwhelming sadness and grief.

For personal reasons I don't want to go into details about my family. I also don't want to give my opinion on that other family's situation because it's not my place to do so, and I know how I felt when outsiders tried to get involved in our situation.

I will say two things though....

1. Asking somebody to stop feeding their loved one; to stop giving their body the nutrients it needs to survive, is asking a lot, no matter how hopeless things seem. For some, it's an easy decision. They see it as saving the person from continued suffering, and not prolonging the inevitable. For others though, they see it as giving up all hope. They feel as long as there is a glimmer of life, there is a chance for a medical miracle, or perhaps God might intervene.

2. If indeed a person is going to die no matter what, why should we starve them, and make their suffering even worse? Why can't we have them put to sleep, and end it quickly? Some say that human life is so valuable, that even the thought of 'putting down' a person is inhumane and barbaric. Yet they don't find it inhumane and barbaric to starve them, and watch them slowly get weaker and suffer more until they die. Does that make sense? Is it a contradiction?

I can't say which side I fall on, because the truth is - I understand them both, and despite having to watch my loved one pass away, and our family having to make certain decisions, I still don't know for sure that we did the right thing. Then again, I'm not sure there is a right thing. Every situation like this is different. So deep, so involved, so complicated. At the end of the day I put my faith in God, my family, my friends and myself. I do the best I can. That's all any of us can do.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=76300

I hope that this girl and her family find some peace.

I hope that none of you ever have to be in a similar situation.

I hope that we as humans, can grow both mentally and spiritually, and find better answers.

Sincerely,
Tim (-db-)

Jammer · 03-19-2005, 06:42 AM

Well Lee,for the very first time,I'd have to agree with you on this one.

.X. · 03-19-2005, 10:51 AM

This is inhuman,starving her to death is the most cruel thing.And it really bothers me.They would'nt starve a death roll inmate,But they will allow this to happen.She is definatly in my prayers,Godbless her.This is far more than sad.

**Dave Zan** · 03-19-2005, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by -db-

At the end of the day I put my faith in God, my family, my friends and myself. I do the best I can. That's all any of us can do.

Aptly put, Tim. I can't say anything better than that.

dgridley · 03-19-2005, 02:31 PM

I had to make the decision to remove my mother from life support in 1997. It's not an easy decision to make, for anyone involved, including the doctors, but sometimes it's the "right" decision. I feel for both sides in this situation.

However, not being privy to Terri's wishes in the matter, I don't know the answer... hopefully the right one will be made.

True_Snake · 03-19-2005, 07:35 PM

From Yahoo.COM

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=76300

Quote:

Congressional leaders announced a compromise between Senate and House Republicans that would allow the brain-damaged woman's case to be reviewed by federal courts that could restore her feeding tube. Opposition waned after House leaders agreed to give up broader legislation and accept a narrowly crafted bill that applied only to Schiavo's case.

So the tube is going to be reinserted.

True_Snake

Mark · 03-19-2005, 07:49 PM

It is definitely a tough position to be in for all Parties involved. I won't take sides in this particular case as I am not involved and don't know all the particulars ... But wouldn't you feel guilty later if you Held on to your loved one out of Selfishness ? I'm not saying I condone helping people with ending their life or anything - But lots of folks hold on Because they don't want to go through the "Loss" and most of the time it is just Prolonging their loved one's suffering. I Definitely woudn't want to go through this myself ~ and feel for anyone who's had to make these decisions

Bless them all ~

LeeRyder · 03-19-2005, 08:10 PM

well.. I dont want to get into the logistics of our fellow NP members situations with loved ones, but this (Terri's) case is unique in that she is not on life support or otherwise bein artificially supported and her body forced to live. (ie; brain dead, repirator or some other means).

She simply has a feeding tube because it is the easiest way for the hospital to feed hear. she can eat on her own given the opportunity to do so.

(sympathies to those that have been in the other situations though)

Aajiz · 03-19-2005, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by True_Snake

From Yahoo.COM

So the tube is going to be reinserted.

True_Snake

Pleased and relieved to hear that (Provided it is implemented!!)

Regards

Qwert · 03-19-2005, 08:40 PM

Why does she have to be killed? As long as someone is willing to support her why can't she live?

.X. · 03-19-2005, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by LeeRyder

well.. I dont want to get into the logistics of our fellow NP members situations with loved ones, but this (Terri's) case is unique in that she is not on life support or otherwise bein artificially supported and her body forced to live. (ie; brain dead, repirator or some other means).
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=76300

She simply has a feeding tube because it is the easiest way for the hospital to feed hear. she can eat on her own given the opportunity to do so.

(sympathies to those that have been in the other situations though)

Well said,And i can not agree with you more.

LeeRyder · 03-19-2005, 10:52 PM

Qwert.

Her husband says she "wouldnt have wanted to live like this
Her parents (who want to take care of her personally) insist she enver stipulated such things and that as a catholic would never commit suicide or the condoning of killing someone.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=76300

if is all very very complex. much more so than I have posted here, but what stands to truth is the fact that there are people who will take care of her, she reacts and acts to people..etc. She "plays practical jokes" laughs with jokes people tell her..etc.

her husband insists she is essentially a vegetable.
Her husbands motivs though are clear. Insurance settlement in Terri's name. She dies, he gets to keep the money.

He claims to be a loving husband.
He has been romantically involved with another women since approx 6 months after Terri's Brain condition happened.

Qwert · 03-20-2005, 09:22 AM

I know, why is there even a court case though? I am sure her parents would take care of her, she should live with them. Weather or not she's brain dead she is still a human and can live with who she wants (and it's obdivious who that is) so she with her parents instead of with her husband...

Rob · 03-20-2005, 10:19 AM

Not heard anything about it here in the Sunny UK.

Qwert · 03-20-2005, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Rob

Not heard anything about it here in the Sunny UK.

Did you expect to? If it was in UK we wouldn't here about it in US.

ZuraX · 03-20-2005, 03:47 PM

The tube will be removed again once a court sees the new "law" as unconst... because they can NOT make a law that helps/harms ONE person. So this woman who had made it known that she wouldnt want to be kept alive will again go through the he** of starving more instead of dieing like she wished.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=76300

Congress is stepping in here. Why dont they also step in and stop abortions? Why not step in and stop people on death row from being killed?

If my states congressmen and senators vote yes on this "law" I have informed them I will help them to lose their next election.

Originally Posted by LeeRyder

her husband insists she is essentially a vegetable.
Her husbands motivs though are clear. Insurance settlement in Terri's name. She dies, he gets to keep the money.

There is no money left. Also her parents offered him 10 MILLION to give them custody. He refused. Why? Because SHE WANTS TO DIE and not be a veggy!!!

LeeRyder · 03-20-2005, 03:56 PM

sorry zuraz, the parents arent rich though, they dont have 10 mill to offer him. Everyone that knew her before this incident insists she wouldnt want to die here. with the sole exception of her husband.

there is money still left

ZuraX · 03-20-2005, 04:09 PM

So the news reports and the family members who are saying they offered him 10 million are lieing? The reports that theres no money left, because its being used to keep a woman alive who wishes to not be, are wrong?

LeeRyder · 03-20-2005, 04:20 PM

Well, you tell me. the family doesnt have 10 million.
the news reports they are offerin 10 mill

ok, lets put it this way. the news reported to me today that your gonna give me 10 mill.

so lets have because we all know the media doesnt lie. *cough* dan rather* cough*

you must remember the majority of the media is under the control of the left. the left are the ones trying to execute Terri.

I personally find it insulting that the democrats want so badly to starve this woman to death and yet, they are ohhh so upset when w make a terrorist stand on a box naked.

ZuraX · 03-20-2005, 04:27 PM

So her family is a bunch of liars? So we can say they are lieing about her wanting to live....

03-19-2005, 12:30 AM	THREAD STARTER #1 (permalink)
LeeRyder Account Suspended Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Left Coast Posts: 3,503	Doing the right thing Sometimes being a man is not easy. It takes fortitude of profound and legendary quality to be all things to all people. But, in my mind... if you do the right thing, everytime your able to at all costs.. you at least will break even in life. Even at the expense of your own life. Sometimes, no matter how much it hurts you.. you have to live up to the facts of life and admit defeat in that there is nothing you can do.... Which Brings this post to the topic of Terri Schiavo. Today, the feeding tube was removed by court order for Terri despite an act of congress barring it (she was called to address congress next week, a local judge in florida still ordered her tube to be removed knowing this was just a way to buy time for her life.) When her tube was being removed, her attorney was a witness to this: Her sister told Terri they were removing her tube, the time had come and that Terri had to say that she wants to live... or she will die. Terri began to cry. Terri screamed "IIIIII". but could manage no other words. The Tube was removed from her arm. The murder of Terri will take 10 to 14 days to finish. It is so barbaric, so horrific that we are justifying to the American people, by rule of law.. this horrid method of sanctioned murder of Brian damaged people. Murderers get pain medication and put to sleep before the act of putting them to death instantainiously ensues. I urge you, men, women and all.. to please.. for all that is right... FIGHT FOR TERRI for all that is good. Or we as a nation have lost our soul. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/the-break-room/76300-doing-the-right-thing.html There will be no getting it back. There are limited things I can think of to effectively "stay" her execution for now: 1) Invade the hospice. Though she is under Police watch, they can only stop so many people. If.. no..when you get arrested... immediately have your attorney CALL TERRI AS A WITNESS TO YOUR DEFENSE. This will force the courts to replace her feeding tube. 2) Sue Terri! Go to your attorney and press charges against her. This will cause her to be legally a ward of the court and out of her husbands hands..thereby forcing them to replace the tube. there are other methods, but ..you know.. not legal. Her husband, if he were to die in some way... would of course no longer have any say as to what happens to her and liability for terri would fall into her parents hands. Im not asking anyone to kill him.. im just wondering why no one hasnt yet. I mean, dying by a 38 to the brain instantly is surely less cruel than starving someone to death. of course.. if you called the florida police and told them I posted a hit out for mr schiavo.. i would be arrested and ...would have to call Terri as a witness... food for thought. Apathy is our own worst enemy.

03-19-2005, 03:30 AM	#2 (permalink)
True_Snake In-House Graphic Designer Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,288	This story has been gaining media attraction here too, and probably around the world. I am also disgusted at the fact that they are going to starve a poor lady to death, even when they don't have concrete evidence saying that she does not want to live in a "vegitative state". As one person on a news channel, might have been CNN, said yesterday, that saving life is more important than the marriage. I think he was trying to say that her parents' wishes to save life are more important and "heavy" than her husband's view. I hope something gets done to put the tube back so that Terri can survive. Truly Disgusted... True_Snake __________________ Logos:PM ME! OVECHKIN.INFO! Rising Star!

03-19-2005, 03:42 AM	#3 (permalink)
Sabre First Time Poster! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Chelmsford, UK Posts: 11,419	This is the first that ive heard, and i have to say, this is truely disgusting! Its not her fault! Do we now value human life so little that we can kill someone in this way??! Sickening, IMO. __________________ NamePros Google Panda / Penguin Thread SEO Services \| UK PPC Company \| UK Website Analysis Service Cheap Backpacker Travel Insurance \| Cheap Family Travel Insurance \| Cheap Travel Insurance \| Cheap Holiday Insurance\| UK Dedicated Servers

03-19-2005, 03:46 AM	#5 (permalink)
Sabre First Time Poster! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Chelmsford, UK Posts: 11,419	I mean, think if that was your mother.... Would you happily sit by and watch events unfold? If i was american, id be leading my own little demonstration outside the hospice.... Seriously... this really makes me angry.... How would they feel if they were in Terris position, helpless..... __________________ NamePros Google Panda / Penguin Thread SEO Services \| UK PPC Company \| UK Website Analysis Service Cheap Backpacker Travel Insurance \| Cheap Family Travel Insurance \| Cheap Travel Insurance \| Cheap Holiday Insurance\| UK Dedicated Servers

03-19-2005, 04:32 AM	#6 (permalink)
-db- NamePros Inc. Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Under the bed. Posts: 5,609	I was in a similar situation with a loved one. It was not exactly the same scenario, but close enough to know first hand all the emotions and personal struggle involved in making decisions that will undoubtedly effect how long the person lives, and/or suffers. I understand both sides, and the completely overwhelming sadness and grief. For personal reasons I don't want to go into details about my family. I also don't want to give my opinion on that other family's situation because it's not my place to do so, and I know how I felt when outsiders tried to get involved in our situation. I will say two things though.... 1. Asking somebody to stop feeding their loved one; to stop giving their body the nutrients it needs to survive, is asking a lot, no matter how hopeless things seem. For some, it's an easy decision. They see it as saving the person from continued suffering, and not prolonging the inevitable. For others though, they see it as giving up all hope. They feel as long as there is a glimmer of life, there is a chance for a medical miracle, or perhaps God might intervene. 2. If indeed a person is going to die no matter what, why should we starve them, and make their suffering even worse? Why can't we have them put to sleep, and end it quickly? Some say that human life is so valuable, that even the thought of 'putting down' a person is inhumane and barbaric. Yet they don't find it inhumane and barbaric to starve them, and watch them slowly get weaker and suffer more until they die. Does that make sense? Is it a contradiction? I can't say which side I fall on, because the truth is - I understand them both, and despite having to watch my loved one pass away, and our family having to make certain decisions, I still don't know for sure that we did the right thing. Then again, I'm not sure there is a right thing. Every situation like this is different. So deep, so involved, so complicated. At the end of the day I put my faith in God, my family, my friends and myself. I do the best I can. That's all any of us can do. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=76300 I hope that this girl and her family find some peace. I hope that none of you ever have to be in a similar situation. I hope that we as humans, can grow both mentally and spiritually, and find better answers. Sincerely, Tim (-db-) __________________ I support Children: Wish.org \| MissingKids.com I support Animals: SPCA.org \| SPCA.com Jeff \| Armstrong \| Grrilla - First 3 inductees into NamePro's Hall-Of-Fame. Last edited by -db-; 03-19-2005 at 04:37 AM.

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03-19-2005, 06:42 AM	#7 (permalink)
Jammer Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,493	Well Lee,for the very first time,I'd have to agree with you on this one.

03-19-2005, 10:51 AM	#8 (permalink)
.X. Revolution Calling! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: NamePros Avenue Posts: 5,920	This is inhuman,starving her to death is the most cruel thing.And it really bothers me.They would'nt starve a death roll inmate,But they will allow this to happen.She is definatly in my prayers,Godbless her.This is far more than sad.

03-19-2005, 02:31 PM	#10 (permalink)
dgridley NamePros Legend Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: SW Missouri Posts: 18,396 Follow @davew3b	I had to make the decision to remove my mother from life support in 1997. It's not an easy decision to make, for anyone involved, including the doctors, but sometimes it's the "right" decision. I feel for both sides in this situation. However, not being privy to Terri's wishes in the matter, I don't know the answer... hopefully the right one will be made. __________________ davew3b tumblr blog \| davew3b posterous blog

03-19-2005, 07:49 PM	#12 (permalink)
Mark Hi :) Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: NC Posts: 9,537	It is definitely a tough position to be in for all Parties involved. I won't take sides in this particular case as I am not involved and don't know all the particulars ... But wouldn't you feel guilty later if you Held on to your loved one out of Selfishness ? I'm not saying I condone helping people with ending their life or anything - But lots of folks hold on Because they don't want to go through the "Loss" and most of the time it is just Prolonging their loved one's suffering. I Definitely woudn't want to go through this myself ~ and feel for anyone who's had to make these decisions Bless them all ~ __________________ When the man at the door yelled "Alcohol , Tobacco , and Firearms" .... I just assumed it was a delivery !

03-19-2005, 08:10 PM	THREAD STARTER #13 (permalink)
LeeRyder Account Suspended Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Left Coast Posts: 3,503	well.. I dont want to get into the logistics of our fellow NP members situations with loved ones, but this (Terri's) case is unique in that she is not on life support or otherwise bein artificially supported and her body forced to live. (ie; brain dead, repirator or some other means). She simply has a feeding tube because it is the easiest way for the hospital to feed hear. she can eat on her own given the opportunity to do so. (sympathies to those that have been in the other situations though)

03-19-2005, 08:40 PM	#15 (permalink)
Qwert Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: ~Rented~ Posts: 2,930	Why does she have to be killed? As long as someone is willing to support her why can't she live? __________________ [Max font size in sig area is "2"]

03-19-2005, 10:52 PM	THREAD STARTER #17 (permalink)
LeeRyder Account Suspended Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Left Coast Posts: 3,503	Qwert. Her husband says she "wouldnt have wanted to live like this Her parents (who want to take care of her personally) insist she enver stipulated such things and that as a catholic would never commit suicide or the condoning of killing someone. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=76300 if is all very very complex. much more so than I have posted here, but what stands to truth is the fact that there are people who will take care of her, she reacts and acts to people..etc. She "plays practical jokes" laughs with jokes people tell her..etc. her husband insists she is essentially a vegetable. Her husbands motivs though are clear. Insurance settlement in Terri's name. She dies, he gets to keep the money. He claims to be a loving husband. He has been romantically involved with another women since approx 6 months after Terri's Brain condition happened.

03-20-2005, 09:22 AM	#18 (permalink)
Qwert Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: ~Rented~ Posts: 2,930	I know, why is there even a court case though? I am sure her parents would take care of her, she should live with them. Weather or not she's brain dead she is still a human and can live with who she wants (and it's obdivious who that is) so she with her parents instead of with her husband... __________________ [Max font size in sig area is "2"]

03-20-2005, 10:19 AM	#19 (permalink)
Rob Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: England, UK Posts: 2,335	Not heard anything about it here in the Sunny UK.

03-20-2005, 03:56 PM	THREAD STARTER #22 (permalink)
LeeRyder Account Suspended Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Left Coast Posts: 3,503	sorry zuraz, the parents arent rich though, they dont have 10 mill to offer him. Everyone that knew her before this incident insists she wouldnt want to die here. with the sole exception of her husband. there is money still left

03-20-2005, 04:09 PM	#23 (permalink)
ZuraX Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Pennsylvania USA Posts: 2,684	So the news reports and the family members who are saying they offered him 10 million are lieing? The reports that theres no money left, because its being used to keep a woman alive who wishes to not be, are wrong? __________________ Been a NP member for 5 or more years? PM me to join the Social Group!

03-20-2005, 04:20 PM	THREAD STARTER #24 (permalink)
LeeRyder Account Suspended Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Left Coast Posts: 3,503	Well, you tell me. the family doesnt have 10 million. the news reports they are offerin 10 mill ok, lets put it this way. the news reported to me today that your gonna give me 10 mill. so lets have because we all know the media doesnt lie. cough dan rather* cough* you must remember the majority of the media is under the control of the left. the left are the ones trying to execute Terri. I personally find it insulting that the democrats want so badly to starve this woman to death and yet, they are ohhh so upset when w make a terrorist stand on a box naked.

03-20-2005, 04:27 PM	#25 (permalink)
ZuraX Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Pennsylvania USA Posts: 2,684	So her family is a bunch of liars? So we can say they are lieing about her wanting to live.... __________________ Been a NP member for 5 or more years? PM me to join the Social Group!

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