Grrilla

Thought you all would appreciate this...

Subject: Ruling by Judge William Young U.S. District Court.

Remember the guy who got on a plane with a bomb built into his shoe and
tried to light it? Did you know his trial is over?
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Ruling by Judge William Young U.S. District Court. Prior to sentencing,
the Judge asked the defendant if he had anything to say. After
admitting his guilt to the court for the record, Reid also admitted his
"allegiance to Osama bin Laden, to Islam, and to the religion of Allah,"
defiantly stated "I think I ought not apologize for my actions," and
told the court "I am at war with your country."

Judge Young then delivered the statement quoted below on January 30,
2003 United States vs. Reid.

Judge Young:
"Mr. Richard C. Reid, hearken now to the sentence the Court imposes upon
you. On counts 1, 5 and 6 the Court sentences you to life in prison in
the custody of the United States Attorney General.

On counts 2, 3, 4 and 7, the Court sentences you to 20 years in prison
on each count, the sentence on each count to run consecutive with the
other. That's 80 years.

On count 8 the Court sentences you to the mandatory 30 years consecutive
to the 80 years just imposed.

The Court imposes upon you each of the eight counts a fine of $250,000
for the aggregate fine of $2 million.

The Court accepts the government's recommendation with respect to
restitution and orders restitution in the amount of $298.17 to Andre
Bousquet and $5,784 to American Airlines.

The Court imposes upon you the $800 special assessment.

The Court imposes upon you five years supervised release simply because
the law requires it. But the life sentences are real life sentences so I
need go no further.

This is the sentence that is provided for by our statutes.
It is a fair and just sentence.
It is a righteous sentence. Let me explain this to you.
We are not afraid of you or any of your terrorist co-conspirators, Mr.
Reid. We are Americans. We have been through the fire before. There is
all too much war talk here.

And I say that to everyone with the utmost respect. Here in this court,
where we deal with individuals as individuals, and care for individuals
as individuals. As human beings, we reach out for justice. You are not
an enemy combatant. You are a terrorist. You are not a soldier in any
war. You are a terrorist.

To give you that reference, to call you a soldier, gives you far too
much stature.

Whether it is the officers of government who do it, or your attorney who
does it, or that happens to be your view, you are a terrorist. And we do
not negotiate with terrorists. We do not treat with terrorists. We do
not sign documents with terrorists. We hunt them down one by one and
bring them to justice. So war talk is way out of line in this court.

You are a big fellow. But you are not that big. You're no warrior. I
know warriors. You are a terrorist. A species of criminal guilty of
multiple attempted murders. In a very real sense, State Trooper Santiago
had it right when you first were taken off that plane and into custody
and you wondered where the press and where the TV crews were, and he
said you're no big deal.

You're no big deal.

What your counsel, what your able counsel and what the equally able
United States attorneys have grappled with and what I have as honestly
as I know how tried to grapple with, is why you did something so
horrific. What was it that led you here to this courtroom today? I have
listened respectfully to what you have to say. And I ask you to search
your heart and ask yourself what sort of unfathomable hate led you to do
what you are guilty and admit you are guilty of doing. And I have an
answer for you. It may not satisfy you. But as I search this entire
record, it comes as close to understanding as I know.

It seems to me you hate the one thing that is most precious. You hate
our freedom. Our individual freedom. Our individual freedom to live as
we choose, to come and go as we choose, to believe or not believe as we
individually choose.

Here, in this society, the very winds carry freedom. They carry it
everywhere from sea to shining sea. It is because we prize individual
freedom so much that you are here in this beautiful courtroom so that
everyone can see, truly see that justice is administered fairly,
individually, and discretely.

It is for freedom's sake that your lawyers are striving so vigorously on
your behalf and have filed appeals, will go on in their representation
of you before other judges.

We are about it. Because we all know that the way we treat you, Mr.
Reid, is the measure of our own liberties. Make no mistake though. It is
yet true that we will bear any burden, pay any price, to preserve our
freedoms. Look around this courtroom. Mark it well. The world is not
going to long remember what you or I say here.

The day after tomorrow it will be forgotten.

But this, however, will long endure. Here in this courtroom and
courtrooms all across America, the American people will gather to see
that justice, individual justice. Justice, not war. Individual justice
is in fact being done.

The very President of the United States through his officers will have
to come into courtrooms and lay out evidence on which specific matters
can be judged, and juries of citizens will gather to sit and judge that
evidence democratically, to mold and shape and refine our sense of
justice.

See that flag, Mr. Reid?
That's the flag of the United States of America.
That flag will fly there long after this is all forgotten.

That flag stands for freedom. You know it always will.

Custody, Mr. Officer.
Stand him down."

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Mr. Websites

The sentencing serves him right.

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Darkfire001

Great little Speech by the Judge.

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-RJ-

A good read. Much appreciated, grrilla.

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Rob

I think he 'trained up' in a infamous Mosque here in London.

In my opinion, public execution would be too good for what he was planning to do.

csmaster2005

:wow:

suthra

Thatz a right decision. But i dont think complete freedom is enjoyed by Americans, that too in bush's leadership.

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Grrilla

What is complete freedom, other than an ideal to strive for?

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Rob

Complete freedom is not possible, anywhere - you need law.

US, UK, main European countries, Australia etc are the closest we can get to it, IMO.

Blackpanther

Freedom isnt really to do with law or goverment as a whole.. its people.. we have learned to have tolerance for different religions, peoples opinions etc.. which is also why theres a limit..

But no matter how much of a limit there is that limit will always change as we have also learned to debate.. thats the freedoms we enjoy.. if we dont like a law.. we can fight to change it..

IMHO if we have or dont have democracy wouldnt make much difference to our freedoms anymore now in America the UK and country's alike no matter what goverment or ideaology we live under, those things above cant be taken away by a goverment anymore because the will of the poeple will always be stronger than the goverment regardless of if its a democracy or not.. unlike iraqi people.. who couldnt overthrow a park bench never mind a goverment..

Just my opinion..

Evilhaider

I Agree with the sentencing. I agree with the categorization that he is a terrorist - not a combatant, soldier, or anything else. I agree with how the process of prosecuting him was carried out.

I don't agree with the - 'you hate us for our freedoms' BS. I don't *completely* agree that 'Individual justice is in fact being done.' - While this particular case has been prosecuted correctly, there are hundreds, if not thousands of men sitting somewhere locked up without due process. Men who were swept up in the post 9/11 aftermath and have been denied their basic rights. Individual justice needs to be done for those men.

But, in this case, at least this is one more terrorist behind bars...

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Mark

Sorry - Evilhaider - if this offends You !

I'm sure there are a FEW innocents still in incarceration -

BUT - I for one am not willing to take that chance !
Everyone knows the Basic United States beliefs etc .... and as far as I'm concerned - STAY OUT if you don't like them !!! - Freedom of Religion DOES NOT mean Kill Americans because you feel like it's what your God wants !

This has happened in several war's now - and is not fair to the minority ~ But how many remained in the US after released and WHY !!! is more important !!! ~ We ain't perfect , but were the closest thing You'll FIND ~

Thanks for the Post Grrilla ~

God Bless America and All it's FRIENDS !!!!!

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Evilhaider

all4cost: I'm not sure what you're apologizing for Nothing in any of the posts or from the article *offends* me.

I was just presenting my opinions on the subject. I think its more than just a few innocent people that are incarcerated right now. More and more of these cases come to light day by day - one recent case gave details of how a soft spoken law abiding man was incarcerated for nearly 2 years without legal access, without being able to see his family,etc and when he finally appeared in court he was so mentally damaged that he now requires psychiatric counseling. His friends, family, coworkers were horrified at the change.

As for the point I made about 'hate us for our freedoms' - I should clarify what I mean: I disagree that several of these people that are so anti-US hate us for 'our freedoms'. They hate us for political reasons, not even religious reasons. I think the hate is already there due to politics, then people like Bin Laden come along and *try* to use religion to motivate these people to do things they wouldn't do otherwise - as history has shown religion is a powerful motivator and some of these people who already hate the US, are not very well educated, come under the influence of the likes of Bin Laden.

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armstrong

I think the reason why a lot of non-americans dislike (not hate ... that's such as strong word) the US is because its dominant position in almost everything allows the US to gain even more political and economic advantage over other nations. Unless this is checked, then other nations will become poorer while America becomes richer, ad infinitum.

You know how americans sometimes complain about the abuses of corporate america, and how big corporations use their dominance to gain even more wealth, and in the process trampling on the rights of individuals and small business?

Now take this to a global scale and think of the small guys as non-american individuals and businesses, and the corporate giant as the USA. The US can hire legions of expert scientists, negotiators, and marketers to dominate the rest of the world; troublemakers who seek to change the world order violently will get a nice friendly visit from US Marines, to boot.

It probably does boil down to envy, but if you think about it envy is just another manifestation of terrible injustice.

Until economic and political circumstances change, that envy and sense of injustice among non-US (particularly those from the third world) will always linger beneatch the surface.

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Grrilla

It is a well known fact, and quite an irony, that one of the most politically conservative groups in the US is made up of first generation Americans. It appears that once established here, the children of immigrants are more apt to guard what they have, and are less inclined to want to share the wealth, seeing the next wave of people looking for citizenship, as competition. The political liberals, (not necessarily social), tend to come from long established working class families that are supportive of organized labor and the upper middle class families that have the economic buffer that gives them the time to support altruistic causes.

I agree wholeheartedly w/ what you are saying. The culprit is economics. The material resource pie is only so large, and if one takes too large a slice, there will be less for others to share, and this, most certainly, breads contempt. IMHO, Americans need to conserve resources on a personal, individual basis and simply consume less. This is the only way I can see cutting down the amount of fuel "the machine" needs to operate - the fuel being the resources used, resources that would better serve people in other countries, that have far, far less. We all need to start thinking globally and begin making plans together for our survival as a species on our shared planet , and get beyond our shortsightedness, lack of awareness and selfishness. Those who "have" need to sacrifice significantly more than the current level, *before* those who do not "have", can begin seeing the ideals espoused by those holding most the goods. The field needs leveling and the disparity in economic resources needs to be vastly improved before the ideals and "good intentions" of the fortunate, have any meaning for those living in substandard (and worse!) conditions. Talk is cheap. Sacrifice is difficult and takes the personal courage of looking beyond ones immediate comfort.

The alternative is having a world outside the US (and other well to do countries) filled w/ contempt for the haves, and a society within that has a self-induced psychosis, is strained, and, in the case of the US, continues breeding Columbines.

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suthra

Sorry edited my post

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Blackpanther

Its greed.. Always greed.. Americans arent so much hated (thats a strong word).. Its more thier goverment... America is the richest most powerful country in the world.. With it comes responsibility but all to often is that pushed aside for the america way of life.. it becomes all about me me me.. you may be American but to often do people forget they are human first..

America uses its power and weath for no other reason than its own greed and interest.. like britain and other country's in Europe we have all established laws and justice and bind ourself by things we value like free speach and expression and the right to live in peace.. we have international laws and bodys that exist to ensure that we are not the only ones that enjoy those things..

But inspite of all this when it comes into conflict with what America wants .. It goes out its way to get want it wants no matter the cost.. if it means threatning to abolish the UN the fine.. if it means trampling over ever country and everone elses rights then fine.. they will..

Those people in Gutanamo bay are refused right of POW status and at the same time refused rights period.. what happened to freedom and justice for all? even the enemy..

We have all these laws that exist for the better good of this world.. but America runs over the top of them when ever it suits them..

Thats why America is disliked.. it uses that power for greed and self interest... Its also why we say tony blair has turned britain into a lap dog for America.. because we used to be a country that would do anything to uphold those laws and see that justice is done always for all poeple.. now we just following America..

Look at Israel and palistine or chechen and russia.. most the world wanted to put russia on trail for their crimes against the chechen people.. America Stopped it.. The UN want to condem Israel .. America Stopped it.. the list goes on..

I know long rant.. i guess am saying we need to stop all the Self interest BS.. and fight to ensure that all people are treated the way we expect to be treated.. we should ensure all people are treated fair and get justice when justice is deserved..

I was extremly shocked and sad to see the result of Channel five news poll that said 60% of britian say that those in Gutanamo bay dont deserve the right to a fair trial or rights..

treat others as we expect to be treated.. and dont destroy the very things we worked to create for self interest...

f***ed up times we live in..

Rob

I think it boils down to jealousy too.

Alot of these people in these countries dont have anywhere near the lifestyle alot of us do... and I guess jealousy gets caught up with 'religion' and breeds what we have facing us today...