LLLLSales.com - Feedback, Bugs, Suggestions, etc

rpanella · 02-22-2009, 11:20 PM

As many of you who follow the LLLL.com market probably know, the previous resource for LLLL sales data hasn't been updated in months.

In an effort to provide a useful resource to those interested in LLLL.com sales data, I have created a website called LLLLSales.com, at the request of many of the frequent posters in the sales and discussion thread. I have spent a good amount of the last week developing the site and adding sales data from the sales thread here.

Please feel free to try the site out and use this thread as a place to post feedback, bugs, or any suggestions in general for the website.

***EG.domains*** · 02-23-2009, 09:51 PM

Great tool

rpanella · 02-24-2009, 06:02 PM

I've had some good feedback so far and due to some suggestions have implemented a few new features.

You can now search for specific letters in a specific positions (eg 1st letter A and 3rd letter B). Also I added the ability to search specifically for Triple Letters, Double Repeats, AABB, ABAB, and ABBA patterns.

Try it out and let me know what you think.

-REECE- · 02-24-2009, 06:06 PM

Great job Russell!

YAYnames.com · 02-24-2009, 06:10 PM

Very nicely done!

Lean, mean and fast with a myriad of sorting options.

abcproductions · 02-24-2009, 06:17 PM

Very well done Russell. And cheers to Nem0 and the other contributors.

ddchan · 02-27-2009, 06:41 AM

Seems the namepros sales data are not that up to date
compared to other venues.
But all in all a great effort, thanks!

Semtex · 02-27-2009, 07:17 AM

Originally Posted by ddchan

Seems the namepros sales data are not that up to date
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/short-domain-discussion/561686-llllsales-com-feedback-bugs-suggestions-etc.html
compared to other venues.
But all in all a great effort, thanks!

Namepros auction sales have been added.

Also, if names are ready to expire within 2-4 weeks, I am adding a reg fee to the final sale price. I feel that this will not skew any sales data. Since we do this with TDNX auctions, I don't see a problem with adding a reg fee to final sale prices on NP auctions. This could probably be incorporated into Ebay sales as well. (Nem0)

Russell if you have a problem with this, please tell me. I just don't see the reason in posting a $4 sale if the name is expiring in 10 days.

ebatcave · 02-27-2009, 08:42 AM

Great job! Well designed.

rpanella · 02-27-2009, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by FantasyCombine

Namepros auction sales have been added.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=561686

Also, if names are ready to expire within 2-4 weeks, I am adding a reg fee to the final sale price. I feel that this will not skew any sales data. Since we do this with TDNX auctions, I don't see a problem with adding a reg fee to final sale prices on NP auctions. This could probably be incorporated into Ebay sales as well. (Nem0)

Russell if you have a problem with this, please tell me. I just don't see the reason in posting a $4 sale if the name is expiring in 10 days.

Thanks for helping add the Namepros sales Jeremy. I think it makes sense to add reg fee to domains expiring right away, as it will make the numbers more comparable to other places like Snapnames, Namejet, and TDNAM which include a full year of reg.

Semtex · 02-27-2009, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by rpanella

Thanks for helping add the Namepros sales Jeremy. I think it makes sense to add reg fee to domains expiring right away, as it will make the numbers more comparable to other places like Snapnames, Namejet, and TDNAM which include a full year of reg.

Okay. I think Nem0 and I agree on this as well. For Ebay and Namepros purposes, we will add the reg fee to the ending sale if the name expires in 30 days or less. I think this is fair. This is also critical for sales on names that are ranging under the $10 mark. Some low sales don't account for quick expirations, but I would say half of them do. If the name ends for $5 and it has 45 days left, then so be it.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=561686

Does anyone else have input on this?

rpanella · 02-27-2009, 05:29 PM

Actually, the more I think about it, I think for the sake of consistency, it might be best not to add reg fees to to Ebay and Namepros sales prices. It makes sense to add them to TDNAM sales since when someone buys a domain there they are charged the price + reg fee. This makes these prices comparable to other drop houses which give you a year of reg when you buy a domain.

As for venues such as Ebay and Namepros, where domains can be sold at any point in the renewal cycle, I think it would just be to complicated to add reg fee (or partial reg fees). First of all, all the reported sales over the last year from these venues (as far as I'm aware) do not factor in renewal times, so it would become fuzzy to do a comparison over time if we suddenly started adding it.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=561686

Also, where do you draw the line? If you do it at 30 days, then the same name expiring in 4 weeks vs 5 would be reported $8 higher. You could always prorate the reg fee according to the amount of time left, which would give you the best results, but that simply becomes too complicated to do by hand, and too inconsistent to maintain. I could perhaps look into automating something like this down the line (using expiration date of whois to add a renewal factor to all past prices from ebay and namepros), but that would also become fuzzy.

I think the simplest thing would just be to report what the domain actually sold for, and just keep in mind when viewing Ebay and Namepros sales, that they are affected by renewal dates (unlike drop house auctions) and therefore should be analyzed differently.

***EG.domains*** · 02-27-2009, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by rpanella

Actually, the more I think about it, I think for the sake of consistency, it might be best not to add reg fees to to Ebay and Namepros sales prices. It makes sense to add them to TDNAM sales since when someone buys a domain there they are charged the price + reg fee. This makes these prices comparable to other drop houses which give you a year of reg when you buy a domain.

Agreed. adding reg fee to TDNAM sales only would be the best IMO.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=561686

Originally Posted by rpanella

I think the simplest thing would just be to report what the domain actually sold for, and just keep in mind when viewing Ebay and Namepros sales, that they are affected by renewal dates (unlike drop house auctions) and therefore should be analyzed differently.

Also agreed.

Nem0 · 02-27-2009, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by rpanella

Actually, the more I think about it, I think for the sake of consistency, it might be best not to add reg fees to to Ebay and Namepros sales prices. It makes sense to add them to TDNAM sales since when someone buys a domain there they are charged the price + reg fee. This makes these prices comparable to other drop houses which give you a year of reg when you buy a domain.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=561686

As for venues such as Ebay and Namepros, where domains can be sold at any point in the renewal cycle, I think it would just be to complicated to add reg fee (or partial reg fees). First of all, all the reported sales over the last year from these venues (as far as I'm aware) do not factor in renewal times, so it would become fuzzy to do a comparison over time if we suddenly started adding it.

Also, where do you draw the line? If you do it at 30 days, then the same name expiring in 4 weeks vs 5 would be reported $8 higher. You could always prorate the reg fee according to the amount of time left, which would give you the best results, but that simply becomes too complicated to do by hand, and too inconsistent to maintain. I could perhaps look into automating something like this down the line (using expiration date of whois to add a renewal factor to all past prices from ebay and namepros), but that would also become fuzzy.

I think the simplest thing would just be to report what the domain actually sold for, and just keep in mind when viewing Ebay and Namepros sales, that they are affected by renewal dates (unlike drop house auctions) and therefore should be analyzed differently.

In PM a few hours ago I brought up the same exact point with FC: where do you draw the line? 34 days isn't too much different than 30 or 31 days.

It is a good idea by FC though since the buyer of a domain that expires in 2 weeks is going to have to pay the renewal right away anyway, which adds to the price he just paid for the name.

Earlier I was ok with it either way; I can add renewal fees to eBay auctions if they expire within a month or can just post the sales like they are. But after reading Russell's points here, I think I tend to agree with not adding renewal fees to marketplace sales - like at Namepros or eBay - where a year expiry isn't automatically added to the sale (like Namejet, TDNAm, Snap etc).

For now I'll just post the sales like they are. Like Russell said, people who peruse the sales at LLLLsales.com can "keep in mind" that the sales (especially the lowest sales) were most likely affected by the quick expiry date.

Unrelated...

I just posted eBay sales for the day in the sales thread, and today had the occasional 'small bulk sale' auction included with all the single sales. It was this one:

Pack of 2 LLLL.com (IAUV & VYOE) sold for $51.00 ($25.50 ea)

So with bulk sales of names (at eBay or here at NP), when posting the sales at LLLLsales.com should we just not report them? Or should we average them out and report them that way? Such as:

IAUV $25.50
VYOE $25.50

I'm kind of against reporting them at all since one or more names in the 'bulk' will almost always be worth more than some other names in that same bulk of names. For instance I think IAUV is worth more than VYOE.

Would like to see what Russell and others think..

rpanella · 02-27-2009, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by Nem0

Unrelated...

I just posted eBay sales for the day in the sales thread, and today had the occasional 'small bulk sale' auction included with all the single sales. It was this one:

Pack of 2 LLLL.com (IAUV & VYOE) sold for $51.00 ($25.50 ea)

So with bulk sales of names (at eBay or here at NP), when posting the sales at LLLLsales.com should we just not report them? Or should we average them out and report them that way? Such as:
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=561686

IAUV $25.50
VYOE $25.50

I'm kind of against reporting them at all since one or more names in the 'bulk' will almost always be worth more than some other names in that same bulk of names. For instance I think IAUV is worth more than VYOE.

Would like to see what Russell and others think..

I think when it comes to bulk sales it really depends on the quality of the names involved. If there are big differences in quality (eg a quad premium and single premium for 200) its hard to say what price to attribute each. On the other hand a sale of 5 similar anti-premiums for $50, I don't really see a problem reporting them at $10 each, assuming you (as most likely the buyer) think the domains are of about equal value.

Completely unrelated, but I just got done adding a new right hand side bar that lists current LLLL.com auctions about to finish along with their bids and prices. Hopefully people will find this useful

-REECE- · 02-28-2009, 02:04 PM

That certainly seems like a fair way to go about doing it. Thanks again Russell, looks great!

Originally Posted by rpanella

I think when it comes to bulk sales it really depends on the quality of the names involved. If there are big differences in quality (eg a quad premium and single premium for 200) its hard to say what price to attribute each. On the other hand a sale of 5 similar anti-premiums for $50, I don't really see a problem reporting them at $10 each, assuming you (as most likely the buyer) think the domains are of about equal value.

Completely unrelated, but I just got done adding a new right hand side bar that lists current LLLL.com auctions about to finish along with their bids and prices. Hopefully people will find this useful

rpanella · 03-03-2009, 06:54 PM

Made a few small improvements to the site.

Now if you search for a certain "quality" of LLLL such as Quad Premium, all the current auctions shown along the right side will be domains of the same quality, for example quad premiums: http://www.llllsales.com/index.php?c...16&p=65535&o=0

***EG.domains*** · 03-03-2009, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by rpanella

Made a few small improvements to the site.

Now if you search for a certain "quality" of LLLL such as Quad Premium, all the current auctions shown along the right side will be domains of the same quality, for example quad premiums: http://www.llllsales.com/index.php?c...16&p=65535&o=0

Nice update Russell ... You really doing a great job.

rpanella · 03-19-2009, 02:47 AM

Added a small new feature where the site will now show you when looking at sales data if the domain displayed is currently up auction and what the price is. Also added a checkbox on the left side to show only the sales data for domains currently "In Auction."

Let me know what you think or if you find this useful.

rpanella · 01-14-2010, 01:33 AM

I finally added the first chart to the LLLL.com Price Chart page on the site.

It plots the minimum price for a quad premium each month from Nov 2007 until now, based on all the sales data reported on the site. To calculate the "minimum price" I used the 5th percentile of all quad premium sales for each month. This means that 95% of all quad premiums sold for more than then minimum and 5% sold for less. This was done to filter out anomalies (outliers) to try to give a realistic view.

Let me know what you think.

*euroflash* · 01-14-2010, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by rpanella

I finally added the first chart to the LLLL.com Price Chart page on the site.

It plots the minimum price for a quad premium each month from Nov 2007 until now, based on all the sales data reported on the site. To calculate the "minimum price" I used the 5th percentile of all quad premium sales for each month. This means that 95% of all quad premiums sold for more than then minimum and 5% sold for less. This was done to filter out anomalies (outliers) to try to give a realistic view.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=561686

Let me know what you think.

Really cool! And I like the direction it is taking right now. Not a big improvement, but we might be on the right track.

Nem0 · 01-15-2010, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by rpanella

I finally added the first chart to the LLLL.com Price Chart page on the site.

It plots the minimum price for a quad premium each month from Nov 2007 until now, based on all the sales data reported on the site. To calculate the "minimum price" I used the 5th percentile of all quad premium sales for each month. This means that 95% of all quad premiums sold for more than then minimum and 5% sold for less. This was done to filter out anomalies (outliers) to try to give a realistic view.

Let me know what you think.

Awesome Russell, thanks again for all the work.

Would it be easy to make a chart for the low-end llll as well? Like maybe under $100..
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=561686

Would be neat to see.

rpanella · 02-03-2010, 08:24 PM

It would be just as easy to chart the lower data, but the problem is that sales haven't been reported consistently enough to make it useful. Ebay is the only venue that allows sales under $20 (TDNAM opening bid plus renewal fee). This means the months with no ebay sales the minimum would be $20 while months with ebay sales reported would have the correct minimum somewhere under $20. The chart ends up showing jumps when no ebay sales were reported so its no very accurate.

Quad premiums were the one area with pretty consistently reported sales, so the data is pretty representative of the true price trends.

rpanella · 04-14-2010, 06:30 PM

Sedo and Bido sales are now automatically added to the site. Also, I have added Bido auctions for LLLL.coms to the auction column on the right side.

*fastadam* · 04-21-2010, 04:25 PM

First off, let me say that I am a huge fan of LLLLSales.com -- you have done a bang-up job (that's good!) and I use it all the time.

I am concerned that quite a number of the larger sales that closed (on Sedo especially) were in Euros rather than dollars, and yet the sales price listed does not reflect the difference in currency valuation, but assumes all sales were completed in dollars.

I recognize that looking up the exchange rate and doing the calculations would cause those who submit extra time (and extra work!) but it would drastically change some of the figures and shift price averages up (IMO).

Any thoughts about what to do going forward? Or fixing the past entries?
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=561686

Thanks again for all of your hard work...

02-22-2009, 11:20 PM	THREAD STARTER #1 (permalink)
rpanella NamePros Regular Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 232	LLLLSales.com - Feedback, Bugs, Suggestions, etc As many of you who follow the LLLL.com market probably know, the previous resource for LLLL sales data hasn't been updated in months. In an effort to provide a useful resource to those interested in LLLL.com sales data, I have created a website called LLLLSales.com, at the request of many of the frequent posters in the sales and discussion thread. I have spent a good amount of the last week developing the site and adding sales data from the sales thread here. Please feel free to try the site out and use this thread as a place to post feedback, bugs, or any suggestions in general for the website. __________________ LLLL.com Sales Last edited by rpanella; 02-24-2009 at 06:00 PM.

02-23-2009, 09:51 PM	#2 (permalink)
*EG.domains* GenericDomainMarket.com Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 6,801	Great tool __________________ ► Generic & Premium Domains for sale!

02-24-2009, 06:02 PM	THREAD STARTER #3 (permalink)
rpanella NamePros Regular Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 232	I've had some good feedback so far and due to some suggestions have implemented a few new features. You can now search for specific letters in a specific positions (eg 1st letter A and 3rd letter B). Also I added the ability to search specifically for Triple Letters, Double Repeats, AABB, ABAB, and ABBA patterns. Try it out and let me know what you think. __________________ LLLL.com Sales

02-24-2009, 06:10 PM	#5 (permalink)
YAYnames.com Names for Commerce Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Iron City Posts: 194	Very nicely done! Lean, mean and fast with a myriad of sorting options. __________________ . www.YAYnames.com * HUNDREDS of $299 Premium, keyword, generic .COM names! * .

02-27-2009, 05:29 PM	THREAD STARTER #12 (permalink)
rpanella NamePros Regular Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 232	Actually, the more I think about it, I think for the sake of consistency, it might be best not to add reg fees to to Ebay and Namepros sales prices. It makes sense to add them to TDNAM sales since when someone buys a domain there they are charged the price + reg fee. This makes these prices comparable to other drop houses which give you a year of reg when you buy a domain. As for venues such as Ebay and Namepros, where domains can be sold at any point in the renewal cycle, I think it would just be to complicated to add reg fee (or partial reg fees). First of all, all the reported sales over the last year from these venues (as far as I'm aware) do not factor in renewal times, so it would become fuzzy to do a comparison over time if we suddenly started adding it. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=561686 Also, where do you draw the line? If you do it at 30 days, then the same name expiring in 4 weeks vs 5 would be reported $8 higher. You could always prorate the reg fee according to the amount of time left, which would give you the best results, but that simply becomes too complicated to do by hand, and too inconsistent to maintain. I could perhaps look into automating something like this down the line (using expiration date of whois to add a renewal factor to all past prices from ebay and namepros), but that would also become fuzzy. I think the simplest thing would just be to report what the domain actually sold for, and just keep in mind when viewing Ebay and Namepros sales, that they are affected by renewal dates (unlike drop house auctions) and therefore should be analyzed differently. __________________ LLLL.com Sales

02-24-2009, 06:06 PM	#4 (permalink)
-REECE- NamePros Expert Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 8,984	Great job Russell!

02-24-2009, 06:17 PM	#6 (permalink)
abcproductions NamePros Regular Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Hollywood, California Posts: 728	Very well done Russell. And cheers to Nem0 and the other contributors.

02-27-2009, 06:41 AM	#7 (permalink)
ddchan NamePros Regular Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 657	Seems the namepros sales data are not that up to date compared to other venues. But all in all a great effort, thanks!

02-27-2009, 08:42 AM	#9 (permalink)
ebatcave NamePros Regular Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: The Mid-South Posts: 804	Great job! Well designed.

03-03-2009, 06:54 PM	THREAD STARTER #17 (permalink)
rpanella NamePros Regular Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 232	Made a few small improvements to the site. Now if you search for a certain "quality" of LLLL such as Quad Premium, all the current auctions shown along the right side will be domains of the same quality, for example quad premiums: http://www.llllsales.com/index.php?c...16&p=65535&o=0 __________________ LLLL.com Sales

03-19-2009, 02:47 AM	THREAD STARTER #19 (permalink)
rpanella NamePros Regular Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 232	Added a small new feature where the site will now show you when looking at sales data if the domain displayed is currently up auction and what the price is. Also added a checkbox on the left side to show only the sales data for domains currently "In Auction." Let me know what you think or if you find this useful. __________________ LLLL.com Sales

01-14-2010, 01:33 AM	THREAD STARTER #20 (permalink)
rpanella NamePros Regular Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 232	I finally added the first chart to the LLLL.com Price Chart page on the site. It plots the minimum price for a quad premium each month from Nov 2007 until now, based on all the sales data reported on the site. To calculate the "minimum price" I used the 5th percentile of all quad premium sales for each month. This means that 95% of all quad premiums sold for more than then minimum and 5% sold for less. This was done to filter out anomalies (outliers) to try to give a realistic view. Let me know what you think. __________________ LLLL.com Sales

02-03-2010, 08:24 PM	THREAD STARTER #23 (permalink)
rpanella NamePros Regular Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 232	It would be just as easy to chart the lower data, but the problem is that sales haven't been reported consistently enough to make it useful. Ebay is the only venue that allows sales under $20 (TDNAM opening bid plus renewal fee). This means the months with no ebay sales the minimum would be $20 while months with ebay sales reported would have the correct minimum somewhere under $20. The chart ends up showing jumps when no ebay sales were reported so its no very accurate. Quad premiums were the one area with pretty consistently reported sales, so the data is pretty representative of the true price trends. __________________ LLLL.com Sales

04-14-2010, 06:30 PM	THREAD STARTER #24 (permalink)
rpanella NamePros Regular Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 232	Sedo and Bido sales are now automatically added to the site. Also, I have added Bido auctions for LLLL.coms to the auction column on the right side. __________________ LLLL.com Sales

04-21-2010, 04:25 PM	#25 (permalink)
fastadam NamePros Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Out West Posts: 152	First off, let me say that I am a huge fan of LLLLSales.com -- you have done a bang-up job (that's good!) and I use it all the time. I am concerned that quite a number of the larger sales that closed (on Sedo especially) were in Euros rather than dollars, and yet the sales price listed does not reflect the difference in currency valuation, but assumes all sales were completed in dollars. I recognize that looking up the exchange rate and doing the calculations would cause those who submit extra time (and extra work!) but it would drastically change some of the figures and shift price averages up (IMO). Any thoughts about what to do going forward? Or fixing the past entries? ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=561686 Thanks again for all of your hard work...

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