LL.com Unsold @ $112,000

-REECE- · 05-29-2008, 11:30 AM

As we continue to see ever climbing prices on LLL.coms and a very healthy upper end LLLL.com market, the LL.com market seems to be struggling, with the recently reported OW.com selling for just $120,000 and now WT on Sedo, unsold at $112,000. Interesting to note that since $66,000 there were only 2 bidders on this name...

I've always been a fan of LL.coms, but they seem to have taken quite the hefty devaluation lately. There was once a time when any LL.com was unobtainable for under 6 figures -- now even strong names like OW and WT are struggling to see 6 figures and one can only imagine what lower quality examples would fetch in today's market...

Thoughts?

sdsinc · 05-29-2008, 11:44 AM

I think LL.com are still one of the greatest names you can possibly buy, but no everone can afford them. You need the right end user...

-REECE- · 05-29-2008, 11:46 AM

I agree 100%.

I know I'd love to own one -- just for the sake of owning one. Sadly I don't have the kind of money yet where I can drop 100k on a "trophy domain".

Originally Posted by Kath

I think LL.com are still one of the greatest names you can possibly buy, but no everone can afford them. You need the right end user...

italiandragon · 05-29-2008, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Reece

As we continue to see ever climbing prices on LLL.coms and a very healthy upper end LLLL.com market, the LL.com market seems to be struggling, with the recently reported OW.com selling for just $120,000 and now WT on Sedo, unsold at $112,000. Interesting to note that since $66,000 there were only 2 bidders on this name...

I've always been a fan of LL.coms, but they seem to have taken quite the hefty devaluation lately. There was once a time when any LL.com was unobtainable for under 6 figures -- now even strong names like OW and WT are struggling to see 6 figures and one can only imagine what lower quality examples would fetch in today's market...

Thoughts?

It`s something very logic and simple that I already explained in my average English.

Like for the complicated Lotto systems, many people buy more if th eprice is cheap simply because is more affordable.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/short-domain-discussion/475217-ll-com-unsold-112-000-a.html

Potential returns also matter and while for LLLL.com and LLL.com there is still plenty of room to grow, it`s quite hard to monetize a LL.com for $500,000 despite I think that`s their value.

So instead of buying 1 LL.com , people invest in more LLL.com and LLLL.com also splitting the risk.

Even if there was the mathematical connection of prices values:

1 LL.com = 26 x LLL.com

There would be more buyers at 1/26 of LL.com price then at the full price of LLL.com simply because it`s more affordable.

Smiler · 05-29-2008, 11:50 AM

When did LL.com disappeared? How much were they going for back in 2000 and who own these LL.com any ways? Big companies, people who have lots of money, and people who hates money that spend them carelessly.

Michael · 06-03-2008, 06:25 AM

Single premium LL.coms have consistently sold for $80k - $120k for the last 5 years, nothing has really changed.

-REECE- · 06-03-2008, 06:39 AM

WT is as close to double premium as it gets -- this is a fairly steep decline from what would have been expected. Seller had previous offers in the $200,000 range in weeks past, as per his sales thread.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=475217

Originally Posted by DomainRaiders.com

Single premium LL.coms have consistently sold for $80k - $120k for the last 5 years, nothing has really changed.

Pred · 06-03-2008, 06:59 AM

people simply aren't liquid, across the board that's all
these are amongst some of the most expensive names you can buy apart from top generics or geos.

just because a domain doesn't sell at $100k say, doesn't mean it's not worth it, simply means 99.99% of people..............

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=475217
1/ don't have those funds
2/ aren't willing to tie up all their funds and wait
3/ don't appreciate it's value

if you offered a van gogh on here or on an art forum for $40 million & it had previously sold year before for $80 million, it wouldn't sell for one of the reasons above, 1-3 imho. pretty much number 1/ as no-one has that kind of money mainly

it's a lean time that's all, and it's here for a while. the seller of wt.com has a fulltime job and a load of nice domains so without knowing the intricacies of his personal life, i doubt he HAS to sell, so he'd be better of holding for a year or two imo as it's a $300 - $500k domain now to an enduser imo, it's that good, but as i said if he offered me for $100k i couldn't raise those funds even though i know it would be cheap. also i know i can privately go out and source better domains for $100k

testingyou · 06-03-2008, 07:10 AM

The sellers had it also posted here:
http://www.namepros.com/high-priced-...ers-w-bin.html

As a martial art practitioner I love this name. WT stands for Wing Tsun, one of the largest and fastest growing martial art in world.

So I am really confused why this one didnt sell, I would have thought "Leung Ting" or "Emin Boztepe", would have been all over this one?

Best regards,

sf2010 · 06-03-2008, 07:11 AM

i really haven't followed the LL market.

what is the realistic RESELLER prices for double-premium names?

a brief look at namebio produces few deals in 2008 that seems to have better letter combos?

snoop · 06-03-2008, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by arnie

people simply aren't liquid, across the board that's all
these are amongst some of the most expensive names you can buy apart from top generics or geos.

Is that different to 6 months ago, were big domain buyers more liquid then? Personally I get the strong impression big buyers are choosing to keep more cash and not invest (ie they are more liquid than in the past). I think the smaller people are probably the ones with liquidity issues (stock market losses, possible job losses, house price falls etc), rather than the people buying 6 figure names.

Here is an interesting quote by Rick Latona,

"I’ve had countless conversation with other major players whom all point out that Kevin Ham, Xedoc and some of the other bigger players have stopped bidding on what they call “trophy names”."

http://www.ricklatona.com/2008/05/29...rket/#comments
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=475217

Originally Posted by arnie

just because a domain doesn't sell at $100k say, doesn't mean it's not worth it, simply means 99.99% of people..............

1/ don't have those funds
2/ aren't willing to tie up all their funds and wait
3/ don't appreciate it's value

if you offered a van gogh on here or on an art forum for $40 million & it had previously sold year before for $80 million, it wouldn't sell for one of the reasons above, 1-3 imho. pretty much number 1/ as no-one has that kind of money mainly

In my thinking if something can't be sold in a pretty short space of time for 100k, it probably isn't worth 100k. We aren't talking $40million here. The auction would have been filled with people who have over 100k in the bank.

-REECE- · 06-03-2008, 07:25 AM

Should these stats be even remotely close to accurate, I'm left to agree completely.

Originally Posted by snoop

Is that different to 6 months ago, were big domain buyers more liquid then? Personally I get the strong impression big buyers are choosing to keep more cash and not invest (ie they are more liquid than in the past). I think the smaller people are probably the ones with liquidity issues (stock market losses, possible job losses, house price falls etc), rather than the people buying 6 figure names.

Here is an interesting quote by Rick Latona,

"I’ve had countless conversation with other major players whom all point out that Kevin Ham, Xedoc and some of the other bigger players have stopped bidding on what they call “trophy names”."
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=475217

http://www.ricklatona.com/2008/05/29...rket/#comments

In my thinking if something can't be sold in a pretty short space of time for 100k, it probably isn't worth 100k. We aren't talking $40million here. The auction would have been filled with people who have over 100k in the bank.

dotnom · 06-03-2008, 07:50 AM

To be honest i'm troubled with the sale of these LL.com's
I had in mind to take one LL.com (not the ones previously mentioned) at the asking price of the seller which is around $250K
It has about 1300 uniques per day from typos (not a trademark name)
I was sure it was a good name but now I reconsider it

testingyou · 06-03-2008, 07:52 AM

->dotnom, it could still be a good buy, depends on how much it earns.

A side note to "Reece": I dont know if its just me, but I cant seem to acces your site bqb.com. Is your site only for US , Im from Denmark?

Best regards

dotnom · 06-03-2008, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by testingyou

->dotnom, it could still be a good buy, depends on how much it earns. Best regards

From my own calculations at least with parking, it should make about $200-$400 per month. Developed should work better of course

testingyou · 06-03-2008, 08:14 AM

-> dotnom

The following is a very simple calculation I do, if I have to value a domain very fast and dont have other factors:

yearly reveneu X 10 years = value

I know this is a very simple vay, and there are many other factors involved in a real valuation, but as an fast way to value a domain, if you dont have any other information then the yearly reveneu, this is the way I do it.

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=475217

With your domain the calculation shows, that it will take you 52 years to get what you have paid for the domain back.
(This is ofcourse if we take in account, that everything will remain the same, nothing is changed, and that we only know one factor: monthly reveneu)

So if your plan is not to hold on to it forever, but plan to resell it, you are depended on the market. It looks that the short time market for LL.com's is not good at the moment, so if you buy it, you either have to have it for longer investment or develope it.

All this is ofcourse just a simple quick thought of mind, without knowing any other factors about the domain.

I bet with your experience, you could learn me a thing or two.

dgridley · 06-03-2008, 08:16 AM

OW.com would have been awesome for a pain, health, or bandaid site! Though OUCH might be better suited and cheaper!

DomainMagnate · 06-03-2008, 08:41 AM

Looks like Bryan has it for sale here
http://www.namepros.com/high-priced-...ers-w-bin.html

Pred · 06-03-2008, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by snoop

Is that different to 6 months ago, were big domain buyers more liquid then? Personally I get the strong impression big buyers are choosing to keep more cash and not invest (ie they are more liquid than in the past). I think the smaller people are probably the ones with liquidity issues (stock market losses, possible job losses, house price falls etc), rather than the people buying 6 figure names.

Here is an interesting quote by Rick Latona,
"I’ve had countless conversation with other major players whom all point out that Kevin Ham, Xedoc and some of the other bigger players have stopped bidding on what they call “trophy names”."

tbh i think things are worse than 6 months ago. real top end sales are happening but the reseller side has died a death, and everyone is feeling the pinch, look around
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=475217

i think the liquidity issues you correctly mention affect everyone.
in particular i think the stock market problems affects some of the top guys more directly.

the domain business is like the real estate market too though, often people waiting to secure a sale beofre buying and that has a knock on effect to everyone, if no sales happening, obviously.

ok some of the big boys are saying they stopped buying trophy names, when did that happen?
kevin ham is already insanely rich & has more top names than he can ever use and has moved onto hijacking country extensions (.cm)
in relation to trophy names, he seems to have made a point of doing exactly that! heaven.com, devil.com etc maybe he simply has the ones he wants, if Rick is to be believed, and in fact was referring to him
Rick himself bought cowboys.com for millions recently with his high end croneys if i'm not mistaken?
i'm sure Frank schilling mainly buys off drops , as do many big buyers too.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=475217
maybe they just got their fill, or are gonna fly over like vultures in coming months/years as they are cash rich? who knows...
maybe people are understandably being a little prudent ?

Originally Posted by snoop

http://www.ricklatona.com/2008/05/29...rket/#comments

In my thinking if something can't be sold in a pretty short space of time for 100k, it probably isn't worth 100k. We aren't talking $40million here. The auction would have been filled with people who have over 100k in the bank.

for the guys who have got 10's of millions then it's a snip IF they want it, again there's a lot of choice out there, especially at the moment, at the right price so competition plays a big part. there are still mainly domainers at these big auctions etc and there's a world of different venues to buy domains at, again watering down results.

i agree many in the room would have had this sort of sum, although most of the domaining population doesn't, certainly those that do probably don't feel it's prudent to spend that sort of cash at the minute as they feel further drops are gonna happen as more and more people need to selll cheaper, they hope.
also, from the recent traffic auction virtually nothing was selling. all extensions were hit. only a couple of worthy big com sales to talk of.
clearly the big boys in the house were after a few names in particular? even though i would say those names were wildly overpaid imo
goes for everything though, not just domains. now is a wait and see time for many, personally i've been buying a lot with my limited funds as i see some real opportunities right now

the thing about something selling in a short space of time again counts on many factors, and cashflow, future depreciation and appreciation on a certain timescale are big factors.

let's say you're a middle ground domainer, you have some pretty reasonable funds and some good names, if you can get the prices you want yourself you can mobilise some funds and buy a name like in this example, you can sit and wait and hope a domainer offers significantly more in coming year or two, or enduser or develop something with it.

or you can take those funds and buy a number of far better names for bargain prices and have far more fun in the process, i think more are doing this and also many more domainers are realising the fun and profits gained from actually developing! most are still too rich or too damned lazy but the benefits of development are awesome. people should at least develop a few as active projects

sdsinc · 06-03-2008, 12:24 PM

I think LL.com are the archetype of 'trophy names'.
They are great if you are a big (or not so big) corporation trying to establish credibility. Problem is that not all end users have the means or the vision for these names

*Archangel* · 06-03-2008, 12:41 PM

I'd much rathher spend $100k on a lot of 20-30 LLL.coms than 1 LL.com. Just my 2 cents

DomainMagnate · 06-03-2008, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Archangel

I'd much rathher spend $100k on a lot of 20-30 LLL.coms than 1 LL.com. Just my 2 cents

I doubt you'd get more than 13 LLL.com for 100k now

michaelg314 · 06-05-2008, 08:02 PM

I would rather have an LL.com than 10 LLL.coms. it's simply math for me. Only 676 of these in the world, compared to billiions of people in the world. Most LLL.com have very light traffic anyways, so it's really not a monetization issue for me. The minimum price of LL.coms in a 4-6 years will be $500K-$600K. I think we'll see common seven figure sales in 10 years for these LL.coms.

-REECE- · 06-05-2008, 09:04 PM

Completely agree Michael.

These would have been the very last domains I'd have thought would see shoddy sales numbers. Their rarity and desirability are in a league of their own. I know I'd happily buy one if I found an extra 100k lying around the house

Originally Posted by michaelg314

I would rather have an LL.com than 10 LLL.coms. it's simply math for me. Only 676 of these in the world, compared to billiions of people in the world. Most LLL.com have very light traffic anyways, so it's really not a monetization issue for me. The minimum price of LL.coms in a 4-6 years will be $500K-$600K. I think we'll see common seven figure sales in 10 years for these LL.coms.

rocka · 06-05-2008, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by michaelg314

I would rather have an LL.com than 10 LLL.coms. it's simply math for me. Only 676 of these in the world, compared to billiions of people in the world. Most LLL.com have very light traffic anyways, so it's really not a monetization issue for me. The minimum price of LL.coms in a 4-6 years will be $500K-$600K. I think we'll see common seven figure sales in 10 years for these LL.coms.

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=475217
Hi,

really interesting discussion here..
sorry to hijack this a little, but would NN.coms be more valuable since there are only 99 of them?

Thanks

Rocka

05-29-2008, 11:30 AM	THREAD STARTER #1 (permalink)
-REECE- NamePros Expert Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 8,984	LL.com Unsold @ $112,000 As we continue to see ever climbing prices on LLL.coms and a very healthy upper end LLLL.com market, the LL.com market seems to be struggling, with the recently reported OW.com selling for just $120,000 and now WT on Sedo, unsold at $112,000. Interesting to note that since $66,000 there were only 2 bidders on this name... I've always been a fan of LL.coms, but they seem to have taken quite the hefty devaluation lately. There was once a time when any LL.com was unobtainable for under 6 figures -- now even strong names like OW and WT are struggling to see 6 figures and one can only imagine what lower quality examples would fetch in today's market... Thoughts? Last edited by Reece; 06-05-2008 at 09:08 PM.

05-29-2008, 11:44 AM	#2 (permalink)
sdsinc Domains my Dominion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Web 1.0 Posts: 9,963	I think LL.com are still one of the greatest names you can possibly buy, but no everone can afford them. You need the right end user... __________________ NameNewsletter.com - free lists of available domain names ZoneFiles.net (beta) - ccTLD and gTLD droplists

05-29-2008, 11:50 AM	#5 (permalink)
Smiler Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,382	When did LL.com disappeared? How much were they going for back in 2000 and who own these LL.com any ways? Big companies, people who have lots of money, and people who hates money that spend them carelessly. __________________ iPod Touch Tutorials \| Custom Made Wordpress Website \| 24 .edu Backlinks DoFollow Blog Comment Service

06-03-2008, 06:25 AM	#6 (permalink)
Michael DNMedia.com Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,842	Single premium LL.coms have consistently sold for $80k - $120k for the last 5 years, nothing has really changed. __________________ MiniSites.com - Shift Your Domains Out of Park! DN Media Corporation \| Friend Me on Facebook \| Follow Me on Twitter

06-03-2008, 07:10 AM	#9 (permalink)
testingyou Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Copenhagen - Denmark Posts: 1,789	The sellers had it also posted here: http://www.namepros.com/high-priced-...ers-w-bin.html As a martial art practitioner I love this name. WT stands for Wing Tsun, one of the largest and fastest growing martial art in world. So I am really confused why this one didnt sell, I would have thought "Leung Ting" or "Emin Boztepe", would have been all over this one? Best regards, __________________ World Food Programme - No Children Should Go To Bed Hungry. It's simple, it's not rocket science, not political, not cultural, not religion, not complicated... It's this simple!.

06-03-2008, 06:59 AM	#8 (permalink)
Pred Account Suspended Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 6,688	people simply aren't liquid, across the board that's all these are amongst some of the most expensive names you can buy apart from top generics or geos. just because a domain doesn't sell at $100k say, doesn't mean it's not worth it, simply means 99.99% of people.............. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=475217 1/ don't have those funds 2/ aren't willing to tie up all their funds and wait 3/ don't appreciate it's value if you offered a van gogh on here or on an art forum for $40 million & it had previously sold year before for $80 million, it wouldn't sell for one of the reasons above, 1-3 imho. pretty much number 1/ as no-one has that kind of money mainly it's a lean time that's all, and it's here for a while. the seller of wt.com has a fulltime job and a load of nice domains so without knowing the intricacies of his personal life, i doubt he HAS to sell, so he'd be better of holding for a year or two imo as it's a $300 - $500k domain now to an enduser imo, it's that good, but as i said if he offered me for $100k i couldn't raise those funds even though i know it would be cheap. also i know i can privately go out and source better domains for $100k

06-03-2008, 07:11 AM	#10 (permalink)
sf2010 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,223	i really haven't followed the LL market. what is the realistic RESELLER prices for double-premium names? a brief look at namebio produces few deals in 2008 that seems to have better letter combos?

06-03-2008, 07:50 AM	#13 (permalink)
dotnom Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: ZARDEN.com Posts: 1,515	To be honest i'm troubled with the sale of these LL.com's I had in mind to take one LL.com (not the ones previously mentioned) at the asking price of the seller which is around $250K It has about 1300 uniques per day from typos (not a trademark name) I was sure it was a good name but now I reconsider it __________________ Active Supporter of GR.com Private Second Level Domain Registry Check their Facebook page : Facebook.GR.com Check their Twitter page : Twitter.GR.com

06-03-2008, 07:52 AM	#14 (permalink)
testingyou Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Copenhagen - Denmark Posts: 1,789	->dotnom, it could still be a good buy, depends on how much it earns. A side note to "Reece": I dont know if its just me, but I cant seem to acces your site bqb.com. Is your site only for US , Im from Denmark? Best regards __________________ World Food Programme - No Children Should Go To Bed Hungry. It's simple, it's not rocket science, not political, not cultural, not religion, not complicated... It's this simple!. Last edited by testingyou; 06-03-2008 at 07:58 AM.

06-03-2008, 08:14 AM	#16 (permalink)
testingyou Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Copenhagen - Denmark Posts: 1,789	-> dotnom The following is a very simple calculation I do, if I have to value a domain very fast and dont have other factors: yearly reveneu X 10 years = value I know this is a very simple vay, and there are many other factors involved in a real valuation, but as an fast way to value a domain, if you dont have any other information then the yearly reveneu, this is the way I do it. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=475217 With your domain the calculation shows, that it will take you 52 years to get what you have paid for the domain back. (This is ofcourse if we take in account, that everything will remain the same, nothing is changed, and that we only know one factor: monthly reveneu) So if your plan is not to hold on to it forever, but plan to resell it, you are depended on the market. It looks that the short time market for LL.com's is not good at the moment, so if you buy it, you either have to have it for longer investment or develope it. All this is ofcourse just a simple quick thought of mind, without knowing any other factors about the domain. I bet with your experience, you could learn me a thing or two. __________________ World Food Programme - No Children Should Go To Bed Hungry. It's simple, it's not rocket science, not political, not cultural, not religion, not complicated... It's this simple!.

06-03-2008, 08:16 AM	#17 (permalink)
dgridley NamePros Legend Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: SW Missouri Posts: 18,396 Follow @davew3b	OW.com would have been awesome for a pain, health, or bandaid site! Though OUCH might be better suited and cheaper! __________________ davew3b tumblr blog \| davew3b posterous blog

06-03-2008, 08:41 AM	#18 (permalink)
DomainMagnate Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,576	Looks like Bryan has it for sale here http://www.namepros.com/high-priced-...ers-w-bin.html __________________ Domain Magnate

06-03-2008, 12:24 PM	#20 (permalink)
sdsinc Domains my Dominion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Web 1.0 Posts: 9,963	I think LL.com are the archetype of 'trophy names'. They are great if you are a big (or not so big) corporation trying to establish credibility. Problem is that not all end users have the means or the vision for these names __________________ NameNewsletter.com - free lists of available domain names ZoneFiles.net (beta) - ccTLD and gTLD droplists

06-03-2008, 12:41 PM	#21 (permalink)
Archangel www.randypendleton.com Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Southern Ohio, USA Posts: 7,304	I'd much rathher spend $100k on a lot of 20-30 LLL.coms than 1 LL.com. Just my 2 cents

06-05-2008, 08:02 PM	#23 (permalink)
michaelg314 NamePros Regular Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 365	I would rather have an LL.com than 10 LLL.coms. it's simply math for me. Only 676 of these in the world, compared to billiions of people in the world. Most LLL.com have very light traffic anyways, so it's really not a monetization issue for me. The minimum price of LL.coms in a 4-6 years will be $500K-$600K. I think we'll see common seven figure sales in 10 years for these LL.coms. __________________ Visit www.BellaireHotels.com for only $1,000! PM me - HURRY!

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)