RoR, Zend, CakePHP or just plain PHP?

kbweb · 07-04-2008, 12:11 PM

I've only gotten complicated sites over the last half a year. I managed to learn a lot of PHP, MySQL as well as AJAX and javascript during that time.

Question:

Should I just keep using plain PHP, MySQL or is it worth it to learn a framework? If so which?

I know PHP pretty well so Zend or Cake may be good. But I've heard good things about Ruby on Rails.

Thanks

mholt · 07-04-2008, 01:47 PM

Do your own research and discover what could be best for your needs. If you don't mind Windows servers, the .NET Framework is pretty decent as well.

I'm personally a fan of RoR but I do not know it. *embarrassed smile*

aceeca · 07-04-2008, 07:44 PM

I read somewhere that http://codeigniter.com/ is really better than Zend & CakePHP.

aaronfalloon · 07-06-2008, 07:07 AM

What about writing a few of your own objects and methods to make coding easier?

I've tried both Ruby on Rails, and CakePHP, but you really have to learn how to use them like you've learned how to write PHP.

Learning PHP is hard enough, but there's another learning curve after PHP if you want to work with a framework.

Daniel · 07-06-2008, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceeca

I read somewhere that http://codeigniter.com/ is really better than Zend & CakePHP.

Better? Probably not.
Easier to pick up? Probably.

But that's just my opinion, it's how you see things.

nasaboy007 · 07-06-2008, 07:56 AM

i find that coding all my PHP from scratch rather than using existing frameworks not only is more fun, but it also keeps my coding skills honed. plus you get bragging rights of saying you did the whole thing COMPLETELY from scratch =D

gezzle · 07-07-2008, 11:03 AM

I agree with nasaboy, programming his own framework is much more funnier and you do whatever you need to. Learning new frameworks require a lot of time, rather steep learning curve

aceeca · 07-07-2008, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel

Better? Probably not.
Easier to pick up? Probably.

But that's just my opinion, it's how you see things.

here you go my friend:

http://www.avnetlabs.com/php/php-fra...son-benchmarks

rafaelrls · 07-07-2008, 02:09 PM

I think RoR is very good and maybe is the most used of these that you said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nasaboy007

i find that coding all my PHP from scratch rather than using existing frameworks not only is more fun, but it also keeps my coding skills honed. plus you get bragging rights of saying you did the whole thing COMPLETELY from scratch =D

You are right man, just take care of don't reinvent the wheel...

Daniel · 07-07-2008, 02:44 PM

Faster doesn't mean better, definitely not functionality or security wise. Although that article is interesting...

All they really show you is procedual is one hell of a lot faster.

Dan

baxter · 07-08-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel

Faster doesn't mean better, definitely not functionality or security wise. Although that article is interesting...

All they really show you is procedual is one hell of a lot faster.

Dan

Agreed

mhdoc · 07-08-2008, 03:19 PM

If the design and structure assumptions made by the framework designers happen to match your requirements, then a framework can be a great productivity tool.

Unfortunately, the assumptions tend to be very subtle. By the time you see them you are way down the learning curve.

We spent several months really getting into MODx only to find that our need to work with multiple domains was awkward to handle.

**-Nick-** · 07-08-2008, 11:51 PM

I would go for plain PHP

All frameworks might be good. But yet I still think I want flexibility... and don't know why but I feel Plain PHP will give me more flexibility.

seanboy · 07-09-2008, 12:04 AM

You might want to check out symfony:
http://symfony-project.org

kbweb · 07-09-2008, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Nick-

I would go for plain PHP

All frameworks might be good. But yet I still think I want flexibility... and don't know why but I feel Plain PHP will give me more flexibility.

I seems logical to me that frameworks will limit flexibility. I mean I've had some complicated projects which I think few have actually done, or those with vast experience have done. Half the time doing the site was spent on figuring out HOW to program it (Many times I googled "PHP ...").

What if I needed to customize the framework? Is this easy to do?

Thanks everyone for your replies!

rafaelrls · 07-09-2008, 12:29 PM

With frameworks what you are searching is speed of development. If you want flexibility you will not go for a framework.

07-04-2008, 12:11 PM	#1 (permalink)
kbweb NamePros Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 101 0.00 NP$ (Donate)	RoR, Zend, CakePHP or just plain PHP? I've only gotten complicated sites over the last half a year. I managed to learn a lot of PHP, MySQL as well as AJAX and javascript during that time. Question: Should I just keep using plain PHP, MySQL or is it worth it to learn a framework? If so which? I know PHP pretty well so Zend or Cake may be good. But I've heard good things about Ruby on Rails. Thanks

07-04-2008, 01:47 PM	#2 (permalink)
mholt DNOA Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Utah Posts: 5,041 18.01 NP$ (Donate)	Do your own research and discover what could be best for your needs. If you don't mind Windows servers, the .NET Framework is pretty decent as well. I'm personally a fan of RoR but I do not know it. embarrassed smile __________________ codeboards A high-quality community of programmers -- Join today and post! We want new members!

07-04-2008, 07:44 PM	#3 (permalink)
aceeca NamePros Regular Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 795 20.00 NP$ (Donate)	I read somewhere that http://codeigniter.com/ is really better than Zend & CakePHP. __________________ Ganesh Subversion Forum Malta Guide Navsari.in Navsari.TEL Navsari.Info Desi TV Desi Radio

07-06-2008, 07:07 AM	#4 (permalink)
aaronfalloon NamePros Regular Join Date: May 2005 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 747 636.00 NP$ (Donate)	What about writing a few of your own objects and methods to make coding easier? I've tried both Ruby on Rails, and CakePHP, but you really have to learn how to use them like you've learned how to write PHP. Learning PHP is hard enough, but there's another learning curve after PHP if you want to work with a framework. __________________ :guilty: A young web developer’s journey to financial freedom. - aaronfalloon.com

07-06-2008, 07:56 AM	#6 (permalink)
nasaboy007 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 1,112 1,454.30 NP$ (Donate)	i find that coding all my PHP from scratch rather than using existing frameworks not only is more fun, but it also keeps my coding skills honed. plus you get bragging rights of saying you did the whole thing COMPLETELY from scratch =D __________________ Hacksar.com - Your source for random computer tips and tricks! MySiteMemberships.com - Keep track of your site registration information! Like my post? Rep is appreciated!

07-07-2008, 11:03 AM	#7 (permalink)
gezzle NamePros Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 94 14.35 NP$ (Donate)	I agree with nasaboy, programming his own framework is much more funnier and you do whatever you need to. Learning new frameworks require a lot of time, rather steep learning curve

07-07-2008, 02:44 PM	#10 (permalink)
Daniel Danltn.com Join Date: May 2007 Location: Danltn.com / Nottingham, UK Posts: 1,201 13.51 NP$ (Donate)	Faster doesn't mean better, definitely not functionality or security wise. Although that article is interesting... All they really show you is procedual is one hell of a lot faster. Dan __________________ *VERY CHEAP ADVANCED* BULK DOMAIN-STATISTICS LOOKUP** Danltn's Blog - Daniel Neville's Site Spoof your links! Submit your blog NOW! Putting bloggers on the map!

07-08-2008, 03:19 PM	#12 (permalink)
mhdoc NamePros Regular Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 652 137.50 NP$ (Donate)	If the design and structure assumptions made by the framework designers happen to match your requirements, then a framework can be a great productivity tool. Unfortunately, the assumptions tend to be very subtle. By the time you see them you are way down the learning curve. We spent several months really getting into MODx only to find that our need to work with multiple domains was awkward to handle. __________________ Selling Stuff Online Silver Earrings Wealth With Websites

07-08-2008, 11:51 PM	#13 (permalink)
-Nick- I'll do it Technical Services Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: India Posts: 6,434 5,169.80 NP$ (Donate)	I would go for plain PHP All frameworks might be good. But yet I still think I want flexibility... and don't know why but I feel Plain PHP will give me more flexibility. __________________ Vhuv\|Delq\|Fhur\|Twut\|Tluz\|Kegh\|Vhir\|Juhy\|Ruuz\|Jyos\|Jupt\|Vhek Webmaster Blog \| Software Downloads Sponsor Ads at SponAds.com

07-09-2008, 12:04 AM	#14 (permalink)
seanboy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,188 0.00 NP$ (Donate)	You might want to check out symfony: http://symfony-project.org

07-09-2008, 12:29 PM	#16 (permalink)
rafaelrls NamePros Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: me = new (live(in.paradise()) Posts: 155 0.00 NP$ (Donate)	With frameworks what you are searching is speed of development. If you want flexibility you will not go for a framework. __________________ portuguese portal de noticias opiniaoweb\| generalities: new and used cars\|portuguese opiniaoweb concursos\|PharmaKnow \|wonderings of a web geek\|portuguese opiniaoweb carros\|opiniaoweb.com.br

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