Possible PHP Coding Competition 2 - Discussion

Bucaneiro · 08-09-2007, 03:27 AM

Why don't you guys start another contest?

Split thread - So users don't confuse Competitions and Discussions - Hitch

Hitch · 08-09-2007, 04:02 AM

Depends on the interest.
We'll have to see who wants to enter, and who will do for definite.

Maybe make something smaller, i think the last one was abit daunting for many.

Matthew. · 08-09-2007, 05:40 AM

I could probably manage an entry this time depending on what time I get

Eric · 08-09-2007, 05:44 AM

I could probably get a couple sponsors to provide prizes for the next contest if we have one. Hitch, me & you should get up with RJ and see about coming up with something

Xyzer · 08-09-2007, 06:12 AM

If there was another, as I am not full with work, I would definately be itnerested in entering.

Hitch · 08-09-2007, 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by SecondVersion

I could probably get a couple sponsors to provide prizes for the next contest if we have one. Hitch, me & you should get up with RJ and see about coming up with something

Ok.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/programming/359675-possible-php-coding-competition-2-discussion.html

I'll get you in chat.
We will have to force users to enter this one.

Peter · 08-09-2007, 06:27 AM

I will most likely be able to enter and submit this time as I have spare time on my hands (recently been made redundant)

chicker · 08-09-2007, 07:18 AM

I might enter it really depends on the field and if it is something I would be interested in developing and my work load at the time currently I am quiet busy but it goes up and down

Bucaneiro · 08-09-2007, 07:21 AM

Count me on for anything you guys decide.

cef · 08-09-2007, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by Hitch

Ok.

I'll get you in chat.
We will have to force users to enter this one.

If, compared to the last one, you keep the scope simpler and make the rules a little more logical I think more people will participate.

Hitch · 08-09-2007, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by cef

make the rules a little more logical

Care to elaborate?

Any comments and criticism given will only make the second Competition better!

cheerio · 08-09-2007, 09:47 AM

I'll try to participate

Xyzer · 08-09-2007, 01:22 PM

I think that this time next week would be idea becuase alot of us are on our school holidays which means we have time in the day to do it. I am more than interested in doing.. so

cef · 08-09-2007, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Hitch

Care to elaborate?

Any comments and criticism given will only make the second Competition better!

One thing I recall off the top of my head was not being able to use any snippets or 3rd-party code. Part of being a good programmer is knowing when to buy instead of build, and then knowing how to integrate what you've bought.

Sure, if someone submits a project which is mostly 3rd-party code stitched together I'd say that doesn't count, although in the real world it certainly would.

But appropriate and judicial use of 3rd-party assister classes (PageRank checker, RSS feed parser, SMTP mailer for a contact form, an ajax class for web 2.0 stuff) lets the participant focus on creating a really good competition entry instead of wasting time on ancillary infrastructure.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=359675

Of course if the competition is to write an RSS parser or SMTP mailer or ajax class, well, then that's another story.

Eric · 08-09-2007, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by cef

One thing I recall off the top of my head was not being able to use any snippets or 3rd-party code. Part of being a good programmer is knowing when to buy instead of build, and then knowing how to integrate what you've bought.

Sure, if someone submits a project which is mostly 3rd-party code stitched together I'd say that doesn't count, although in the real world it certainly would.

But appropriate and judicial use of 3rd-party assister classes (PageRank checker, RSS feed parser, SMTP mailer for a contact form, an ajax class for web 2.0 stuff) lets the participant focus on creating a really good competition entry instead of wasting time on ancillary infrastructure.

Of course if the competition is to write an RSS parser or SMTP mailer or ajax class, well, then that's another story.

I'll agree with that. Why re-invent the wheel on some things?

snareklutz · 08-09-2007, 08:16 PM

Some suggestions:
1. All entries are to be licensed as a free software (www.fsf.org) license of the developer's choice.
2. Have a panel of judges voting on different parts of the code: eg, features, aethetics, coding practices, extent of innovation, etc.
3. Use subversion or cvs to track development over a set period of time (with a set number of minimum updates). This prevents people from coding beforehand.
4. Create a list of preapproved libraries.

Xyzer · 08-10-2007, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by snareklutz

Some suggestions:
1. All entries are to be licensed as a free software (www.fsf.org) license of the developer's choice.
2. Have a panel of judges voting on different parts of the code: eg, features, aethetics, coding practices, extent of innovation, etc.
3. Use subversion or cvs to track development over a set period of time (with a set number of minimum updates). This prevents people from coding beforehand.
4. Create a list of preapproved libraries.

I don't agree with number 3... It would just take too long... It's time most people don't have!

Hitch · 08-10-2007, 04:01 AM

Originally Posted by cef

One thing I recall off the top of my head was not being able to use any snippets or 3rd-party code. Part of being a good programmer is knowing when to buy instead of build, and then knowing how to integrate what you've bought.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=359675

Sure, if someone submits a project which is mostly 3rd-party code stitched together I'd say that doesn't count, although in the real world it certainly would.

But appropriate and judicial use of 3rd-party assister classes (PageRank checker, RSS feed parser, SMTP mailer for a contact form, an ajax class for web 2.0 stuff) lets the participant focus on creating a really good competition entry instead of wasting time on ancillary infrastructure.

Of course if the competition is to write an RSS parser or SMTP mailer or ajax class, well, then that's another story.

Suggest noted!

Thanks.

Though, (this is my own opinion here, it won't affect the competition)
I think allowing things such as RSS Classes shouldn't be allowed.

It's not really a coding competition then, imo.
To me, coding means thinking of structures, architecture, methods and patterns.

Anyone could really use a Class, it takes hardly no work at all.
But building yourown is different, i would like to see how the user handles loads of the server, queries, security, XSS prevention etc.
That's coding.

Just my thoughts.

Adrian

cef · 08-10-2007, 09:34 AM

My own thoughts as well (and not meant snarkily)

Originally Posted by Hitch

It's not really a coding competition then, imo.
To me, coding means thinking of structures, architecture, methods and patterns.

In that case we have a problem of scope. Scope in terms of project scope, and scope in terms of implementation scope.

Because half of the above list is precisely about choosing the right items to bolt together into a whole, and parts of the other two apply at the site level as well as the module level.

But I don't mean to be a language-lawyer

What you say is correct, it's just that it encompasses the strategic as well as the tactical, making it hard to determine what the scope of the competition should be.

Originally Posted by Hitch

But building your own is different, i would like to see how the user handles loads of the server, queries, security, XSS prevention etc.
That's coding.

And that's what I get paid a lot of money per hour to do in the real world. I can't hold down two programming jobs at once. Is the competition prize a guaranteed contract paying top-dollar rates?

How "good" does something have to be for this good-natured competition? And can something be "too" good? This is why sports have different divisions (amateur, pro-am, pro, etc.)

So, even ignoring the valid (and not yet discussed here) recommendations of snareklutz RE licensing, buy vs. build, category judges, etc., there still seems to be a problem of:
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=359675

1. project scope (how big a project)
2. implementation scope ("real world-edness" of the code)
3. quality constraints (judging pro/pro-am/amateur code in one big vat)

To be honest, I don't know how to solve this problem. I've never been able to come up with a satisfactory formula, which is why I stay out of coding competitions.

Eric · 08-11-2007, 06:10 PM

So, anyone have ideas of what sort of contest we should have?

IE: what script/project/etc - the last competition was a bug tracker.

Oh, and by the way, I've talked with the owner & author of PHP Designer; and he will be donating 3 licenses of PHP Designer 2007 Pro (worth €39/$53).

Xyzer · 08-12-2007, 02:08 AM

Hmm.. How about making something like... A basic CMS, But certain features have to be made or something?

snareklutz · 08-12-2007, 10:06 PM

In terms of project scope, that would depend on the time people are willing to commit into the contest - which would be relative to the quality of the prizes. It would take more than chance to win a license of PHP Designer 2007 Pro to get me really into the competition.

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=359675

And regarding SecondVersion's question. In my opinion, why should the contest revolve around a specific type of type of script? Rather, wouldn't the competition benefit further if we had broader scope, e.g., something that showcases AJAX in practical use...just a thought. This would give room for creativity, allowing people a chance to think out-of-the-box, instead of recreating applications that already exist.

Originally Posted by localhost

Originally Posted by snareklutz

3. Use subversion or cvs to track development over a set period of time (with a set number of minimum updates). This prevents people from coding beforehand.

I don't agree with number 3... It would just take too long... It's time most people don't have!

It wouldn't have to be loads of updates... even if the contest was say one week... we could have a minimum of 1 update per week?

Bucaneiro · 08-13-2007, 05:22 PM

What you guys think of a News CMS or Arcade CMS?

cheerio · 08-13-2007, 06:12 PM

A domain CMS // portfolio script

Completely related to namepros, and will be fun

Eric · 08-13-2007, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by cheerio

A domain CMS // portfolio script

Completely related to namepros, and will be fun

ffs! All I need is more competition

08-09-2007, 03:27 AM	THREAD STARTER #1 (permalink)
Bucaneiro Account Closed Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 254	Possible PHP Coding Competition 2 - Discussion Why don't you guys start another contest? Split thread - So users don't confuse Competitions and Discussions - Hitch Last edited by Hitch; 08-09-2007 at 06:34 AM.

08-09-2007, 04:02 AM	#2 (permalink)
Hitch Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Uk, South Yorkshire Posts: 1,225 Follow @adrianc333	Depends on the interest. We'll have to see who wants to enter, and who will do for definite. Maybe make something smaller, i think the last one was abit daunting for many. __________________ Cueburst - Support System - FAQ Knowledge Base, Tickets and more.

08-09-2007, 05:40 AM	#3 (permalink)
Matthew. Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: England Posts: 1,568	I could probably manage an entry this time depending on what time I get __________________ University Grade Calculator juegosjuegos Your Hotel in Austria Matratzen

08-09-2007, 06:27 AM	#7 (permalink)
Peter NamePros Expert Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Scotland Posts: 5,069	I will most likely be able to enter and submit this time as I have spare time on my hands (recently been made redundant) __________________ Manage your portfolio using my new Domain Portfolio Management script. Securing Your Domain Name From Theft

08-09-2007, 09:47 AM	#12 (permalink)
cheerio NamePros Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 52	I'll try to participate __________________ ProxyPimps TreatmentofMesothelioma \| PinkSocks \| Cakebite \| Treeless

08-09-2007, 05:44 AM	#4 (permalink)
Eric Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 4,948	I could probably get a couple sponsors to provide prizes for the next contest if we have one. Hitch, me & you should get up with RJ and see about coming up with something

08-09-2007, 06:12 AM	#5 (permalink)
Xyzer Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: United Kindom Posts: 1,502	If there was another, as I am not full with work, I would definately be itnerested in entering.

08-09-2007, 07:18 AM	#8 (permalink)
chicker NamePros Regular Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: England Posts: 722	I might enter it really depends on the field and if it is something I would be interested in developing and my work load at the time currently I am quiet busy but it goes up and down

08-09-2007, 07:21 AM	THREAD STARTER #9 (permalink)
Bucaneiro Account Closed Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 254	Count me on for anything you guys decide.

08-09-2007, 01:22 PM	#13 (permalink)
Xyzer Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: United Kindom Posts: 1,502	I think that this time next week would be idea becuase alot of us are on our school holidays which means we have time in the day to do it. I am more than interested in doing.. so

08-09-2007, 08:16 PM	#16 (permalink)
snareklutz Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,060	Some suggestions: 1. All entries are to be licensed as a free software (www.fsf.org) license of the developer's choice. 2. Have a panel of judges voting on different parts of the code: eg, features, aethetics, coding practices, extent of innovation, etc. 3. Use subversion or cvs to track development over a set period of time (with a set number of minimum updates). This prevents people from coding beforehand. 4. Create a list of preapproved libraries. __________________ For sale: forexstochastics.com

08-11-2007, 06:10 PM	#20 (permalink)
Eric Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 4,948	So, anyone have ideas of what sort of contest we should have? IE: what script/project/etc - the last competition was a bug tracker. Oh, and by the way, I've talked with the owner & author of PHP Designer; and he will be donating 3 licenses of PHP Designer 2007 Pro (worth €39/$53). Last edited by SecondVersion; 08-11-2007 at 06:19 PM.

08-12-2007, 02:08 AM	#21 (permalink)
Xyzer Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: United Kindom Posts: 1,502	Hmm.. How about making something like... A basic CMS, But certain features have to be made or something?

08-13-2007, 05:22 PM	THREAD STARTER #23 (permalink)
Bucaneiro Account Closed Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 254	What you guys think of a News CMS or Arcade CMS?

08-13-2007, 06:12 PM	#24 (permalink)
cheerio NamePros Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 52	A domain CMS // portfolio script Completely related to namepros, and will be fun __________________ ProxyPimps TreatmentofMesothelioma \| PinkSocks \| Cakebite \| Treeless

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