[advanced search]
 

Go Back   NamePros.com > Discussion > Domain Names > Parking & Traffic Monetization

Parking & Traffic Monetization Discussion about domain parking and other methods of earning income from domain traffic.


Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-03-2006, 08:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
Bodis.com
 
cfguru360's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 2,138
599.00 NP$ (Donate)

cfguru360 is a splendid one to beholdcfguru360 is a splendid one to beholdcfguru360 is a splendid one to beholdcfguru360 is a splendid one to beholdcfguru360 is a splendid one to beholdcfguru360 is a splendid one to beholdcfguru360 is a splendid one to beholdcfguru360 is a splendid one to behold


Lightbulb New Parking Program - By Domainers for Domainers

Recently I have been fed up with the low paying parking sponsors such as Sedo and the rest that just lie to us and drop our revenue day by day blaming it on advertiser bids. Some parking sponsors close your account when you are making too much, others don't account for more than half of your traffic or don't have any support team or a support team of 1 person - the owner.

It is TIME FOR A CHANGE. I am going to invest this month's and next month's revenue from my parked domains to create a domaing parking program with suggestions, advice, and ideas by domainers for domainers. When is the last time you seen decent templates that don't look like they were made in 1995 - take DomainSponsor for example. Yes, DomainSponsor may have nice payouts, but CTR will not be as nice as a domain with RevenueDirect, will it? But what about RevenueDirect? Well pay is not great there as it is on DomainSponsor. What about the nice tools with Sedopro and others? Well, it is time to combine all of that to make 1 great service, that has great templates, great payouts, and great tools. And I will make that happen. I will be hiring a template designer to make the best templates, so that they can have the BEST possible CTR. With this parking program I promise to all fellow domainers, there will be no games, no lies, and no excuses.

I am asking other fellow Namepros members to contribute their suggestions/advice for this parking program that they'd like to see. Do you have a unique idea that you always wished Sedopro, or DomainSponsor, or whoever had? Well it is time to contribue that idea below, and I will do everything possible to contribute it in one way or another.

Sound off!
cfguru360 is offline  
Old 11-03-2006, 09:18 PM   #2 (permalink)
NamePros Regular
 
ninedogger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 669
31.10 NP$ (Donate)

ninedogger is a name known to allninedogger is a name known to allninedogger is a name known to allninedogger is a name known to allninedogger is a name known to allninedogger is a name known to all

Save The Children
This is a great idea!
ninedogger is offline  
Old 11-03-2006, 09:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,150
2,523.40 NP$ (Donate)

aznchong91 is a jewel in the roughaznchong91 is a jewel in the roughaznchong91 is a jewel in the rough


that is an excellent idea! I think more people, who are great domainers () should donate their revenue from this month and next month (doesn't include me since i'm a noob with no revenue ). Can't wait to see the end result!
__________________
-----------------------------------------------------
|-----FREE BANNER EXCHANGE! 1:1 RATIO!!!!-----|
|-------------www.bannercenter.info-------------|
-----------------------------------------------------
aznchong91 is offline  
Old 11-03-2006, 09:34 PM   #4 (permalink)
Bodis.com
 
cfguru360's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 2,138
599.00 NP$ (Donate)

cfguru360 is a splendid one to beholdcfguru360 is a splendid one to beholdcfguru360 is a splendid one to beholdcfguru360 is a splendid one to beholdcfguru360 is a splendid one to beholdcfguru360 is a splendid one to beholdcfguru360 is a splendid one to beholdcfguru360 is a splendid one to behold


I will be calling my design firm to start on the design this Monday. I am going to come up with a name for this parking sponsor this following week and file for a DBA.

The thing is to put all other parking sponsors completely to sleep. This has to completely revolutionize domain parking. I already have a few fantastic ideas in mind! If you have any ideas, please post.
cfguru360 is offline  
Old 11-03-2006, 09:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
DNOA Founding Member
 
SpareDomains's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,839
138.00 NP$ (Donate)

SpareDomains has a reputation beyond reputeSpareDomains has a reputation beyond reputeSpareDomains has a reputation beyond reputeSpareDomains has a reputation beyond reputeSpareDomains has a reputation beyond reputeSpareDomains has a reputation beyond reputeSpareDomains has a reputation beyond reputeSpareDomains has a reputation beyond reputeSpareDomains has a reputation beyond reputeSpareDomains has a reputation beyond reputeSpareDomains has a reputation beyond repute


1) sharp clean looking graphic templates

2) ability to set your own title and meta tags

3)ability to set your own email address or link back to your own site for sales

4)referral program

these are the basics I look for as it puts all sales into my own hands and helps with good search engine placement, parked currently has these features and works pretty well for most of my domains, use all of the above features like parked does and throw in sedos public traffic stats and you have a solid start, as I myself was considering doing something like this, unfortunately I got way too much on the table at the moment, I'll keep my eye on your progress, good luck

Last edited by Jay; 11-03-2006 at 09:54 PM.
SpareDomains is offline  
Old 11-03-2006, 09:55 PM   #6 (permalink)
NamePros Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Domain Land
Posts: 297
76.00 NP$ (Donate)

Name-Driver is a glorious beacon of lightName-Driver is a glorious beacon of lightName-Driver is a glorious beacon of lightName-Driver is a glorious beacon of lightName-Driver is a glorious beacon of light


Truly amazing, cfguru!

I'll look forward to this
Name-Driver is offline  
Old 11-03-2006, 09:55 PM   #7 (permalink)
NamePros Regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Lost
Posts: 513
0.00 NP$ (Donate)

rickkumar is on a distinguished road


[QUOTE=cfguru360]I will be calling my design firm to start on the design this Monday. I am going to come up with a name for this parking sponsor this following week and file for a DBA.

The thing is to put all other parking sponsors completely to sleep. This has to completely revolutionize domain parking. I already have a few fantastic ideas in mind! If you have any ideas, please post.[/QUOyhooTE]

I agree with your 100% that something must be done.

The problem is that many people has tried to do this and no one has succeeded because of one or more of the following reasons:

1. Don't have high total traffic figure to get the maximum revenue share rate from goog or yahoo like DS or Sedo etc.

2. Lose motivation after trying for a while.

3. Don't follow the google or yahoo TOS and get banned and shut down.

4. Sign up bad members who send fake traffic and get the entire program earnings come down or program shuts down due to bad traffic.

5. Become too greedy and lose the trust of the domainers just like other ppc companies.

6. Program is never designed to be unique, and better than other ppc companies.

I think you really need to implement great checks and balances in order to succeed.

Just my 2 cents......

Thanks.
rickkumar is offline  
Old 11-03-2006, 09:56 PM   #8 (permalink)
NamePros Regular
 
Kamloops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 493
400.00 NP$ (Donate)

Kamloops is a jewel in the roughKamloops is a jewel in the roughKamloops is a jewel in the rough


Great idea. Parked pages should have a bookmark this page button.

Make it a co-op
Kamloops is offline  
Old 11-03-2006, 10:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Fka200's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,520
364.00 NP$ (Donate)

Fka200 is a name known to allFka200 is a name known to allFka200 is a name known to allFka200 is a name known to allFka200 is a name known to allFka200 is a name known to all


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamloops
Great idea. Parked pages should have a bookmark this page button.

Make it a co-op

IDN Support.
Fka200 is offline  
Old 11-03-2006, 10:41 PM   #10 (permalink)
NamePros Regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 304
0.00 NP$ (Donate)

hitchhiker is on a distinguished road


have a micro site option with ability to import articles etc . . .
__________________
dropHunt.com - FREE Expired Domain Search Engine - search for expired and expiring domains by Alexa ranking, PageRank, backlinks, and more! (no subscriptions or downloads needed . . all free)
hitchhiker is offline  
Old 11-04-2006, 01:10 AM   #11 (permalink)
.X.
Revolution Calling!
 
.X.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NamePros Avenue
Posts: 5,496
267.70 NP$ (Donate)

.X. has a reputation beyond repute.X. has a reputation beyond repute.X. has a reputation beyond repute.X. has a reputation beyond repute.X. has a reputation beyond repute.X. has a reputation beyond repute.X. has a reputation beyond repute.X. has a reputation beyond repute.X. has a reputation beyond repute.X. has a reputation beyond repute.X. has a reputation beyond repute

Baby Health Ethan Allen Fund Protect Our Planet
i wouldn't use googles advertising on the landing pages...Yahoo - adbrite - anything but google,,,they change thier TOS every week,and it would be PITA to keep up with imo,,A parking service with more flexability ,Be able to put your parked names in a signiture on a forum,Advertisers want conversions..understandable...But they also want visits that will lead to conversions,Pure typin traffic is the strangle hold of the domain name parking industry imo.....You can advertise a website with adsense on it on a forum..why not a parked domain name? I agree with the above,allow monitization via meta tags and ect,,nice page layouts,,nice headers,,content updates,,,instead of the same old content all the time...good luck with your project.
__________________
Queensryche Revolution Calling!

Sit Down, Shut Up and Hold on Tight....It's gonna be a bumpy ride
.X. is offline  
Old 11-04-2006, 02:08 AM   #12 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
briman1970's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: LA (Lower Alabama)
Posts: 3,057
255.00 NP$ (Donate)

briman1970 has a reputation beyond reputebriman1970 has a reputation beyond reputebriman1970 has a reputation beyond reputebriman1970 has a reputation beyond reputebriman1970 has a reputation beyond reputebriman1970 has a reputation beyond reputebriman1970 has a reputation beyond reputebriman1970 has a reputation beyond reputebriman1970 has a reputation beyond reputebriman1970 has a reputation beyond reputebriman1970 has a reputation beyond repute

Ethan Allen Fund
Smile

I'd like to see an option to place real affiliate product links on my parked page. For example, I have a domain that brings in 300-400 uniques per month. People that type in this domain are 100% looking for bicycle trailers. Almost 50% of the people who come to my Sedo parked page click on an advertiser, on average. This action of course brings them to an advertisers website that sells the product or service that they are most likely interested in. If my Sedo parked page had picture links of actual products that are for sale, then many individuals would probably click those links and perhaps make a purchase. If only 1% of the people who visited my particular page were to buy bicycle trailers or accessories through my parked page, then I (and the parking service) would make considerably more than if the page only offered PPC ads.

If a parking service split the PPC with me AND helped me to set up affiliate product links on my parked page, it could be very lucrative for both parties. Plus, every affiliate that was found for me would go into a growing database of affiliate companies for the next person who happens to have a domain that pulls in similar traffic.

This would be awesome for domainers that don't want to go through the hassle of seeking out vendors, signing up for several affiliate programs, designing/coding a page, setting up each product link, paying for hosting, and then waiting to see which vendors will rip them off when the time comes to collect. You could have one employee dedicated to the task of setting up affiliate accounts with many different companies. You could also ask domain owners to provide info on affiliates that they might like to use on their parked page.

Just an idea that I think would be useful. The logistics may not be ideal to implement such a concept. Good luck! I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with!
__________________

Click here to see all my domains for sale at Sedo!!!


Last edited by briman1970; 11-04-2006 at 02:12 AM.
briman1970 is offline  
Old 11-04-2006, 05:05 AM   #13 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
cache's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: trik.com Hygo.com & California
Posts: 3,940
128.02 NP$ (Donate)

cache is a splendid one to beholdcache is a splendid one to beholdcache is a splendid one to beholdcache is a splendid one to beholdcache is a splendid one to beholdcache is a splendid one to beholdcache is a splendid one to behold


if you have a design firm, may be make the parking look more like a mini-site.
cache is offline  
Old 11-04-2006, 05:47 AM   #14 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Damion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,679
315.00 NP$ (Donate)

Damion has a brilliant futureDamion has a brilliant futureDamion has a brilliant futureDamion has a brilliant futureDamion has a brilliant futureDamion has a brilliant futureDamion has a brilliant futureDamion has a brilliant futureDamion has a brilliant futureDamion has a brilliant futureDamion has a brilliant future


I fully agree with Briman here. Incorporating affiliate links as well is a tremendous opportunity to create better revenues.
But for this certain agreements have to be arranged with the advertisers.

Also something i would like to mention is the question what has been on my mind for a long time.
Why can't we design our own templates? Why do we have to have limited choices?

If there are certain guidelines for the template for incorporating the ad feeds then let these be known and domainers and customize their own parking pages.
With this type of implementation pages would stop looking as the parking pages you see today.

These pages can be unique in it's kind and this type of implementation can be a refreshing new way of parking monetization.

These uniform - limited options in design need to be stopped and domainers - owners of parking pages in general need to have the abilty to have more control/input concerning the look of their pages.

Template options implemented today by ALL companies is like trying to do a sales pitch with only 5 words to your disposal while there is a whole universe of variety out there to get your point across.

2cents
Damion is offline  
Old 11-04-2006, 05:54 AM   #15 (permalink)
NamePros Regular
 
baxter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 289
1,990.00 NP$ (Donate)

baxter is a jewel in the roughbaxter is a jewel in the roughbaxter is a jewel in the rough

Ethan Allen Fund Save The Children
hey cfguru360,

Me and my partner have been working on an idea simular to yours for just over a month. Its something completely different than the normal parking and I believe exactly what your looking to do. If your interested in speaking about investing feel free to pm me. I can give you a brief run down of what were doing and whats already been done.

@briman1970: I have felt the same way, this was one of the first features on my list.

Best of luck on your project cfguru360,

Bax
baxter is offline  
Old 11-04-2006, 07:23 AM   #16 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Easydoms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: golfered.com
Posts: 1,114
37.20 NP$ (Donate)

Easydoms is just really niceEasydoms is just really niceEasydoms is just really niceEasydoms is just really nice

Animal Cruelty Save a Life Wildlife Autism
I wish you all the best cfguru.

Not being the best with ideas, I am so glad that someone is going to give it go.

With ref to possiblity of passing some earnings from parking. I will help out if I can, but I guess this is something that can be sorted out further down the line.

ALL THE BEST.
Easydoms is offline  
Old 11-04-2006, 08:02 AM   #17 (permalink)
First Time Poster !
 
gazzip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mc Scotland
Posts: 6,415
226.12 NP$ (Donate)

gazzip has a brilliant futuregazzip has a brilliant futuregazzip has a brilliant futuregazzip has a brilliant futuregazzip has a brilliant futuregazzip has a brilliant futuregazzip has a brilliant futuregazzip has a brilliant futuregazzip has a brilliant futuregazzip has a brilliant futuregazzip has a brilliant future


This is an excellent idea cfguru - I obviously have no idea what your budget is but I would imagine it would be very expensive to get it going.

There have been some excellent points mentioned here already : ie

"The ability to set your own Page title and meta tags"

" domainers and customize their own parking pages.
With this type of implementation pages would stop looking as the parking pages you see today"

These are two very important ones, one of which I have already spoke to sedo and namedrive but neither has bothered to try and implement it ???

I think one of the biggest things that 99% of parking companies seem to do a piss poor job at is how these parking pages get indexed by the search engines so poorly (This "may" be a deliberate move on the part of the search engines ???).

I have made a "quick" attempt to make my own parking page for a couple of my domains (just one page) - The result was one of them ended up number 5 in Google for the three keywords in my domain -

dubai luxury property and the other is number 27 in google for the two keywords which are - dubai timeshares (out of 175,000 results)

This page is still there and can be seen at dubaitimeshares_c o m

I fail to see why parking pages do so poorly with search engines (unless as stated it is deliberate).

I think with self customisable page titles - meta tags and an area where you can put in some related keyword rich text far better results would be achieved.

Can you imagine how much more everyone would be making if we could get our parked pages within the first 100 results of a search.

why do the direct type in names have to be the only ones generating the majority of clicks ?

This idea of your sounds great and I will be following this thread to see how you get on with it, best of luck





.

Last edited by gazzip; 11-09-2006 at 03:18 PM.
gazzip is offline  
Old 11-04-2006, 09:12 AM   #18 (permalink)
NamePros Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 876
177.68 NP$ (Donate)

TheBaldOne is a splendid one to beholdTheBaldOne is a splendid one to beholdTheBaldOne is a splendid one to beholdTheBaldOne is a splendid one to beholdTheBaldOne is a splendid one to beholdTheBaldOne is a splendid one to beholdTheBaldOne is a splendid one to behold


Brilliant cfguru!

If domain sales are supported (and I really hope they will be) then may I suggest that you make contact with advertising and marketing companies! These are tomorrows big buyers for domains as the advertising money moves away from traditional media to the internet.

Encourage these 'ideas people' to check domain names, see if they have clients that could utilize the domains effectively. This is currently a major gap, in fact void that exists in the current scheme of things.

Please post here regularly to let us all know how things progress.

I think we all wish you all success.
TheBaldOne is offline  
Old 11-04-2006, 09:28 AM   #19 (permalink)
NamePros Regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Lost
Posts: 513
0.00 NP$ (Donate)

rickkumar is on a distinguished road


A couple more suggestions so that genuine traffic from domainers don't suffer:

1. Restrict the unknown (less known extensions and countries) from your program to avoid FRAUD.

2. Restrict traffic from well know fraudulent countries.

3. Do NOT offer referral system......Why reduce payment for domainers. If you really offer referral system, restrict it to 10% of "First 3 months" of revenue just like hitfarm does.

Just my 2 cents.
rickkumar is offline  
Old 11-04-2006, 09:29 AM   #20 (permalink)
NamePros Regular
 
ninedogger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 669
31.10 NP$ (Donate)

ninedogger is a name known to allninedogger is a name known to allninedogger is a name known to allninedogger is a name known to allninedogger is a name known to allninedogger is a name known to all

Save The Children
I don't like parked pages in Search Engine results....when im searching I want content and the best content. I do not want to get directed to parked pages.
ninedogger is offline  
Old 11-04-2006, 10:03 AM   #21 (permalink)
First Time Poster !
 
gazzip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mc Scotland
Posts: 6,415
226.12 NP$ (Donate)

gazzip has a brilliant futuregazzip has a brilliant futuregazzip has a brilliant futuregazzip has a brilliant futuregazzip has a brilliant futuregazzip has a brilliant futuregazzip has a brilliant futuregazzip has a brilliant futuregazzip has a brilliant futuregazzip has a brilliant futuregazzip has a brilliant future


Quote:
Originally Posted by ninedogger
I don't like parked pages in Search Engine results....when im searching I want content and the best content. I do not want to get directed to parked pages.
True - it would be a pain in the ass if there were dozens of parking pages in the top results - still I think there is room for improvement in that area to generate extra income.

I suspect that the search engines probably put some sort of block on known parked pages so they rank very low in the results.

MSN seems to drop most of the parked pages after a week or two - not all ...but most


.
gazzip is offline  
Old 11-04-2006, 11:46 AM   #22 (permalink)
Powered by Linux!
 
Keynes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,503
92.75 NP$ (Donate)

Keynes has a brilliant futureKeynes has a brilliant futureKeynes has a brilliant futureKeynes has a brilliant futureKeynes has a brilliant futureKeynes has a brilliant futureKeynes has a brilliant futureKeynes has a brilliant futureKeynes has a brilliant futureKeynes has a brilliant futureKeynes has a brilliant future

Cancer Survivorship 9/11/01 :: Never Forget Baby Health Parkinson's Disease
A true, next-gen parking program would have original, minisite-like content, rather than just a static feed as PPC rates adjust for quality
Keynes is offline  
Old 11-04-2006, 12:15 PM   #23 (permalink)
.X.
Revolution Calling!
 
.X.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NamePros Avenue
Posts: 5,496
267.70 NP$ (Donate)

.X. has a reputation beyond repute.X. has a reputation beyond repute.X. has a reputation beyond repute.X. has a reputation beyond repute.X. has a reputation beyond repute.X. has a reputation beyond repute.X. has a reputation beyond repute.X. has a reputation beyond repute.X. has a reputation beyond repute.X. has a reputation beyond repute.X. has a reputation beyond repute

Baby Health Ethan Allen Fund Protect Our Planet
I still think the advertising guide lines play a big roll.... typin traffic only is a load of crap....people should be able to advertise thier parked domain name via a link in thier forum sig imo....and other ways aswell.
__________________
Queensryche Revolution Calling!

Sit Down, Shut Up and Hold on Tight....It's gonna be a bumpy ride
.X. is offline  
Old 11-04-2006, 03:21 PM   #24 (permalink)
NamePros Regular
 
ninedogger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 669
31.10 NP$ (Donate)

ninedogger is a name known to allninedogger is a name known to allninedogger is a name known to allninedogger is a name known to allninedogger is a name known to allninedogger is a name known to all

Save The Children
I would like to see stats on the Visitors.....eg country, browser, (referral URL, if possible) etc...
ninedogger is offline  
Old 11-04-2006, 10:09 PM   #25 (permalink)
NamePros Regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 217
4.00 NP$ (Donate)

jasonmjt is on a distinguished road


I keep reading on this post about domain parking programs only allowing type-in traffic and not back-link traffic. I was a bit worried, as I put some of my parked domains in all of my forum signatures. So, I looked into it and found that atleast trafficclub.com allows back-link traffic. Here's their TOS. Just thought I'd let you guys know.

BTW, I really like the idea about creating a more search engine and user friendly parking page. Just imagine the increase in conversions that would occur!

Trafficclub.com TOS:

6. What are the terms and conditions?

As do all other paid parking programs - we accept ONLY targeted type-in and back-link domain based traffic. The reasons for this are obvious - to protect the integrity of our program, to protect the advertisers who are paying our revenues, and to protect our high payouts for high quality traffic.

Types of traffic we do not accept include (but are not limited to:

Traffic redirected from any source
Traffic from any sort of email campaigns - spam or opted in.
Traffic generated from adware/spyware type of applications
Traffic generated from any sort of service, affiliate programs, etc.


It should also be obvious that any sort of click fraud is not tolerated either.

Anyone sending non-accepted traffic or engaged in click-fraud may at our sole discretion have their accounts banned, and any outstanding revenues due will not be paid out.

If you are unsure if this would affect you - fill out the application , and in the description section at the bottom of the following application, list your domains and accurately describe the source of your traffic.
__________________
119 domain portfolio for sale
jasonmjt is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Site Sponsors
Advertise your business at NamePros

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:31 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007 - 2008, PixelFX Studios

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85