Australia may impose Chinese type of Internet censorship..

Compassion · 10-29-2008, 03:23 PM

http://www.starobserver.com.au/news/...hip-fears/2434

I learned this today...I'm wanting to hear what Australians know about this - do the people know about this proposal?

What is the overall Australian sediment on this issue?

Are there Australian politicians defending net neutrality and freedom?

Thanks..

thunderforce · 10-29-2008, 04:22 PM

Interesting. The solution is having 2 internets: The internet as we know it, and Pornet for the blatant pervs

Please forgive my input if you really only wanted local responses.

Compassion · 10-29-2008, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by thunderforce

Interesting. The solution is having 2 internets: The internet as we know it, and Pornet for the blatant pervs

Please forgive my input if you really only wanted local responses.

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/industry-news/528636-australia-may-impose-chinese-type-internet.html
No all are invited to speak your opinions!

This issue does influence non Australians in the larger picture.

barefoottech · 10-29-2008, 05:06 PM

It can never work
And the Aussie government's previous attempts at censorship/internet filters failed for the same reasons.
1/ Computing power needed.
2/ Most who downloaded the filter didn't bother to use/install it.

globefrog · 10-29-2008, 05:12 PM

The local consensus is not bothered. It is mainly relating to blocking suicide and euthinasia information.

netfleet · 10-29-2008, 05:42 PM

They haven'y explicitly said what will be blocked. I'm sure we can all live with illegal stuff being blocked but I can't see how blocking gamblig or adult content can be seen as anything other than government censorship.

Sounds like it's not going to be plain sailing to get it through, though -

http://www.smh.com.au/news/technolog...956188036.html

shockie · 10-30-2008, 06:13 AM

didn't they try this over a year ago and wasted millions on a system that doesn't work?

maxeaus · 10-30-2008, 06:41 AM

It's hardly a Chinese type scenario, it's an "opt out filter", family friendly so to speak. Of course religous zealots will try and jump on the bandwagon and try and ban everything they hate.

If the government (compulsory) bans certain sites im sure they will be illegal scam sites and hacking, terrorism type sites, noone will miss them, but i doubt they will do this anyway.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=528636

Gambling wont be banned as the government cleans up on gambling taxes from the Aussie ones. Gambling is an institution in Australia.

China is actually opening up the internet more freely these days, Wikipedia for example is now allowed, amongst others.

To sum things up, the government is too busy trying to clean up the world financial mess, including the freezing of millions of dollars of peoples money in
non-bank institutions which they did last week through a rash over reaction in government policy, i doubt they would try it again so soon.

If they froze up the internet there would be an uprising!

evirtual1 · 11-01-2008, 01:04 AM

do you believe polititians will actually do something ????? not likely , but its good for them to be seen to be doing something (in their views)

-REECE- · 11-01-2008, 01:19 AM

.xxx ftw

Seriously though, any censorship on the Internet is something to worry about.

Something like this could quickly turn into the censoring of whatever politicians don't want us to read...

Originally Posted by thunderforce

Interesting. The solution is having 2 internets: The internet as we know it, and Pornet for the blatant pervs

Please forgive my input if you really only wanted local responses.

bmugford · 11-01-2008, 03:02 AM

The slippery slope argument, which I agree with.

Once a precedent is set it can open up a can of worms.

Originally Posted by www.LLLL.com

.xxx ftw

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=528636

Seriously though, any censorship on the Internet is something to worry about.

Something like this could quickly turn into the censoring of whatever politicians don't want us to read...

Compassion · 11-01-2008, 03:08 AM

Originally Posted by bmugford

The slippery slope argument, which I agree with.

Once a precedent is set it can open up a can of worms.

I concur.

Dean · 11-01-2008, 04:53 AM

Yeah, heard about this after Rudd was elected. It seemed to disappear for a while but guess its back now. The guy is a communist and speaks Chinese so I guess it was expected...

Anyway, also saw a small protest over internet censorship in front of the Victorian parliament today, but someone always seems to be protesting something there.

maxeaus · 11-01-2008, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by Dean26

Yeah, heard about this after Rudd was elected. It seemed to disappear for a while but guess its back now. The guy is a communist and speaks Chinese so I guess it was expected...
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=528636

Anyway, also saw a small protest over internet censorship in front of the Victorian parliament today, but someone always seems to be protesting something there.

A little OTT i think Dean, "the guys a communist and speaks Chinese". Maybe the Chinese are now capitalists and the US, UK and Australia are becoming communist (state owned business bailouts)? Oh how the world changes.

I personally do not think an opt out filter is cencorship. It is not compulsory. Most workplaces and all schools in Australia have filters of some type already, the last to get them was the Government/public servants, they were watching porn all day i guess!

People should have a choice to block pornography and gambling if they like. Im for pesonal choice. I do not support forced censorship.

Common sense will prevail i believe.

shockie · 11-03-2008, 12:31 AM

except that in the "western world" it's more like business owns government, whereas in china it's more like government owns business, so there is a bit of a difference. also, in terms of free speech and all that (censorship, etc), the western world is way ahead.

Compassion · 11-03-2008, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by shockie

except that in the "western world" it's more like business owns government, whereas in china it's more like government owns business, so there is a bit of a difference. also, in terms of free speech and all that (censorship, etc), the western world is way ahead.

Very well stated. The American Government works for the privately owned Fed.

ABOLISH THE FEDERAL RESERVE! LISTEN TO RON PAUL, JIM ROGERS - not pundits on CNBC or elsewhere..

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country; corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption in High Places will follow, and the Money Power of the Country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the People, until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war" - Abraham Lincoln

I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world. No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.
~ Woodrow Wilson

"When the government fears the people, you have liberty; when the people fear the government, you have tyranny."
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=528636
Thomas Jefferson

zero_haze_au · 11-11-2008, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by maxeaus

It's hardly a Chinese type scenario, it's an "opt out filter", family friendly so to speak.

This is incorrect; they may be calling this opt out however once you remove their misleading statements and read the ideas put fourth it is actually an 'OPT-BETWEEN', their are two filtered lists in which you may opt between.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=528636

If our New World Order Messiah Kevin Rudd and Mr Conroy

have their way this will be mandatory.

Quote:

Under the scheme there will be two filter tiers: one which blocks illegal material; and another, referred to in a department press release, which blocks a list of material deemed unsuitable for children.

Users can opt out of the latter, but there is no opt-out for “illegal content."

Censorship Trial begins - 24 December 2008

Tech Crunch Article

More Info

Originally Posted by maxeaus

Gambling wont be banned as the government cleans up on gambling taxes from the Aussie ones. Gambling is an institution in Australia.

Incorrect, the government has specified all 'Illegal' content will be blocked.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=528636

For thiose who do not know, 'Online Pornography' and 'Online Gambling' are illegal in Australia with exception to TAB and Sports Betting which is taxed. All other forms such as Poker, Casino Games etc have always been illegal in Australia and will therefor be blocked as long as they remain illegal.

In regards to Porn, it is illegal in Australia to film, produce and distribute online pornography, (however it is legal to prostitute yourself in most states), you just cant film it and sell it online.

Originally Posted by maxeaus

If they froze up the internet there would be an uprising!

There are fairly simple ways to bypass any ISP level filter, - VPS - remote desktop, proxies, however i will support civil unrest in this case of state dictatorship.

And for those in the US, this will come your way too. The web consortium and the United Nations are calling for a new state controlled internet.

This is a simple case whereby the Government will restrict access to the internet for 23 Million people all because a few people mainly overseas are uploading indecent and illegal pornograhpy.

Do we stop flying when a terrorist blows up a plane? of course we dont, the authorities track them down give them justice and we carry on as normal. Why should the general public be censored!

For all free thinkers out there im preety sure you will all agree this will only be used to censor politically incorrect sites and anti-government free speech sites (which will all be classified as 'insighting terrorism').

The actual illegal sites that will be blocked will make up like .0001% of sites that are blocked.

Dean · 11-11-2008, 09:05 PM

Couldnt agree more Zero haze, this is an outrage! But we cant really do anything.

zero_haze_au · 11-11-2008, 09:26 PM

One must also realise the reality of the governments legitimate argument regarding child pornography. The majority of criminals involved in this crime are sharing data via peer to peer networks and file sharing software as opposed to openly creating websites showcasing their crimes.

The filter has no way of blocking Peer to Peer file sharing software so in itself this will prove almost useless in preventing child pornography from being accessed by the perverted people searching for this content.

However it will be perfect for censoring the genral public of free thought.

netfleet · 11-11-2008, 09:52 PM

Some more news in SMH about it today

http://www.smh.com.au/news/technolog...318639085.html

Compassion · 11-12-2008, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by netfleet

Some more news in SMH about it today

http://www.smh.com.au/news/technolog...318639085.html

This part of it sums it up:
"...But Malone's main purpose was to provide the Government with "hard numbers" demonstrating "how stupid it is" - specifically that the filtering system would not work, would be patently simple to bypass, would not filter peer-to-peer traffic and would significantly degrade network speeds.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=528636

"They're not listening to the experts, they're not listening to the industry, they're not listening to consumers, so perhaps some hard numbers will actually help," he said.

"Every time a kid manages to get through this filter, we'll be publicising it and every time it blocks legitimate content, we'll be publicising it."

Malone concluded: "This is the worst Communications Minister we've had in the 15 years since the [internet] industry has existed.""

will the numbers mean anything to these people who are in charge?

numbers are as best of a representation of fact that the people can provide to support net neutrality

zero_haze_au · 11-13-2008, 03:49 AM

Electronic Fronteirs Australia (Link) has created a website against this censorship entitle 'No Clean Feed'.

No Clean Feed Website

Online Petition - 18,787 Signatures so far

You may visit this site to a sign a petition, and find the details to call or write to the Senator Stephen Conroy. (Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy )

Dean · 11-13-2008, 04:25 AM

Originally Posted by zero_haze_au

Electronic Fronteirs Australia (Link) has created a website against this censorship entitle 'No Clean Feed'.

No Clean Feed Website

Online Petition - 18,787 Signatures so far
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=528636

You may visit this site to a sign a petition, and find the details to call or write to the Senator Stephen Conroy. (Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy )

petition signed, thanks.

evirtual1 · 11-14-2008, 12:38 AM

..... just signed the petitiion , hope it helped

Domainace · 11-14-2008, 02:27 AM

Careful, guys. In many ways, Westerners have fewer freedoms than Chinese, so it's not a far-fetched comparison. China is authoritarian rather than communist. Many European countries are more communist than China, and they are catching up in authoritarianism.

What I found amazing while I was in China was what they allowed me to see. Though they obviously monitor net usage of foreigners, not a single porn site was ever blocked, no matter how graphic. Euthanasia? Knock yourself out. Suicide? No worries.

Off the net, all night drinking, prostitution, kids hustling in the streets, drunk driving...all cool. While there are laws regarding these in China, they are only enforced when somebody is out to get you. Make everything illegal, and there's always an excuse to arrest anyone who steps on political toes. Stay out of politics, and you can get away with far more than you can in most Western countries.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=528636

So, yes, censorship can be dangerous. They start with euthanasia or porn. Then they move to hate speech, which itself becomes so broad that any political criticism can be so defined. Hello, China.

But, remember, "it's for your own good."

10-29-2008, 03:23 PM	THREAD STARTER #1 (permalink)
Compassion Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: California Posts: 2,064	Australia may impose Chinese type of Internet censorship.. http://www.starobserver.com.au/news/...hip-fears/2434 I learned this today...I'm wanting to hear what Australians know about this - do the people know about this proposal? What is the overall Australian sediment on this issue? Are there Australian politicians defending net neutrality and freedom? Thanks.. __________________ StephenColbert.net & .org $185

10-29-2008, 04:22 PM	#2 (permalink)
thunderforce NamePros Regular Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: western hemisphere Posts: 771	I wish Interesting. The solution is having 2 internets: The internet as we know it, and Pornet for the blatant pervs Please forgive my input if you really only wanted local responses. __________________ Thanks to all of the nice and reliable members here. Goodbye, and God bless.

10-29-2008, 05:06 PM	#4 (permalink)
barefoottech The MINISITE King Join Date: May 2005 Location: QTHR Posts: 4,588	It can never work And the Aussie government's previous attempts at censorship/internet filters failed for the same reasons. 1/ Computing power needed. 2/ Most who downloaded the filter didn't bother to use/install it. __________________ Barefoottech Minisites! Often Copied Always Amazing Never Bettered.

10-29-2008, 05:12 PM	#5 (permalink)
globefrog comparebanks.net.au Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 338	The local consensus is not bothered. It is mainly relating to blocking suicide and euthinasia information. __________________ Thru the gateway, off the repeater, over the T-3 backbone, nothing but 'Net..

10-29-2008, 05:42 PM	#6 (permalink)
netfleet NamePros Regular Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 714	They haven'y explicitly said what will be blocked. I'm sure we can all live with illegal stuff being blocked but I can't see how blocking gamblig or adult content can be seen as anything other than government censorship. Sounds like it's not going to be plain sailing to get it through, though - http://www.smh.com.au/news/technolog...956188036.html __________________ Netfleet.com.au ★ Photographers.com.au ★ DebitCard.com.au ★ Hockey.com.au ★ Boxing.com.au ★ DomainName.com.au

10-30-2008, 06:13 AM	#7 (permalink)
shockie Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,702	didn't they try this over a year ago and wasted millions on a system that doesn't work? __________________ - shockie

10-30-2008, 06:41 AM	#8 (permalink)
maxeaus Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 1,815	It's hardly a Chinese type scenario, it's an "opt out filter", family friendly so to speak. Of course religous zealots will try and jump on the bandwagon and try and ban everything they hate. If the government (compulsory) bans certain sites im sure they will be illegal scam sites and hacking, terrorism type sites, noone will miss them, but i doubt they will do this anyway. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=528636 Gambling wont be banned as the government cleans up on gambling taxes from the Aussie ones. Gambling is an institution in Australia. China is actually opening up the internet more freely these days, Wikipedia for example is now allowed, amongst others. To sum things up, the government is too busy trying to clean up the world financial mess, including the freezing of millions of dollars of peoples money in non-bank institutions which they did last week through a rash over reaction in government policy, i doubt they would try it again so soon. If they froze up the internet there would be an uprising! __________________ Drez Media

11-01-2008, 01:04 AM	#9 (permalink)
evirtual1 NamePros Expert Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: VampireHire.Com Posts: 6,773	do you believe polititians will actually do something ????? not likely , but its good for them to be seen to be doing something (in their views) __________________ Seeking serious offers .. F-X-T.com = Forex Trading Vampire Ebook Business Show Watch The Domainers Song

11-01-2008, 04:53 AM	#13 (permalink)
Dean Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,714	Yeah, heard about this after Rudd was elected. It seemed to disappear for a while but guess its back now. The guy is a communist and speaks Chinese so I guess it was expected... Anyway, also saw a small protest over internet censorship in front of the Victorian parliament today, but someone always seems to be protesting something there. __________________ Free Image Hosting Image uploading Application Random Generator

11-03-2008, 12:31 AM	#15 (permalink)
shockie Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,702	except that in the "western world" it's more like business owns government, whereas in china it's more like government owns business, so there is a bit of a difference. also, in terms of free speech and all that (censorship, etc), the western world is way ahead. __________________ - shockie

11-11-2008, 09:05 PM	#18 (permalink)
Dean Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,714	Couldnt agree more Zero haze, this is an outrage! But we cant really do anything. __________________ Free Image Hosting Image uploading Application Random Generator

11-11-2008, 09:26 PM	#19 (permalink)
zero_haze_au NamePros Regular Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 666	One must also realise the reality of the governments legitimate argument regarding child pornography. The majority of criminals involved in this crime are sharing data via peer to peer networks and file sharing software as opposed to openly creating websites showcasing their crimes. The filter has no way of blocking Peer to Peer file sharing software so in itself this will prove almost useless in preventing child pornography from being accessed by the perverted people searching for this content. However it will be perfect for censoring the genral public of free thought. __________________ DomainRates.org \| Skeptic World \| Atlantis Media \| Australian Flatmates

11-11-2008, 09:52 PM	#20 (permalink)
netfleet NamePros Regular Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 714	Some more news in SMH about it today http://www.smh.com.au/news/technolog...318639085.html __________________ Netfleet.com.au ★ Photographers.com.au ★ DebitCard.com.au ★ Hockey.com.au ★ Boxing.com.au ★ DomainName.com.au

11-13-2008, 03:49 AM	#22 (permalink)
zero_haze_au NamePros Regular Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 666	Electronic Fronteirs Australia (Link) has created a website against this censorship entitle 'No Clean Feed'. No Clean Feed Website Online Petition - 18,787 Signatures so far You may visit this site to a sign a petition, and find the details to call or write to the Senator Stephen Conroy. (Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy ) __________________ DomainRates.org \| Skeptic World \| Atlantis Media \| Australian Flatmates

11-14-2008, 12:38 AM	#24 (permalink)
evirtual1 NamePros Expert Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: VampireHire.Com Posts: 6,773	..... just signed the petitiion , hope it helped __________________ Seeking serious offers .. F-X-T.com = Forex Trading Vampire Ebook Business Show Watch The Domainers Song

11-14-2008, 02:27 AM	#25 (permalink)
Domainace Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Japan Posts: 1,880	Careful, guys. In many ways, Westerners have fewer freedoms than Chinese, so it's not a far-fetched comparison. China is authoritarian rather than communist. Many European countries are more communist than China, and they are catching up in authoritarianism. What I found amazing while I was in China was what they allowed me to see. Though they obviously monitor net usage of foreigners, not a single porn site was ever blocked, no matter how graphic. Euthanasia? Knock yourself out. Suicide? No worries. Off the net, all night drinking, prostitution, kids hustling in the streets, drunk driving...all cool. While there are laws regarding these in China, they are only enforced when somebody is out to get you. Make everything illegal, and there's always an excuse to arrest anyone who steps on political toes. Stay out of politics, and you can get away with far more than you can in most Western countries. ????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=528636 So, yes, censorship can be dangerous. They start with euthanasia or porn. Then they move to hate speech, which itself becomes so broad that any political criticism can be so defined. Hello, China. But, remember, "it's for your own good." __________________ Mini Trucks from Japan **Potassium Rich Foods Air Duct Cleaning

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Australia may impose Chinese type of Internet censorship..

I wish